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 theharrower wrote:

 insaniak wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 insaniak wrote:
No, because Centurians weren't an obvious attempt to release a rescaled marine line without having to do the entire range at once...

If the plan was to replace the Space Marines line with Primaris Marines, why would they release a codex with the Old Marine rules in it? .

Because the entire point of releasing the Primaris guys as something different is that you dont have to remove the old range and completely replace it.

This way, they can release Primaris kits at a reasonable rate, slowly fleshing out the range while they sell through remaining stocks of the existing kits. As the old kits sell down, I suspect that they'll be quietly retired, and once the Primaris range is completely fleshed out, they'll simply become the standard for marine armies.

Given how much of the current marine range relies on the same parts, it's a clever way of going about rescaling your range without having to do it all at once.

Exactly this. Primaris Marines are what Space Marines should have been all along. They have 2 wounds, their base bolter has an AP value, and the fluff has reasons built in for existing marines to become Primaris Marines. Bobby G. created a whole new founding and not only supplemented existing armies with Primaris Marines, entire new Chapters have sprung up.

GW reached the end of the Space Marines line. They couldn't just keep retooling what they had as people always bitched about how "x" wasn't in the Codex Astartes. Going the way they were going gave us stupid units like the Centurions and fill ins vehicles like the Stalker. Now everything is wide open and they can surprise us again with updated kits.

So yes. Vanilla Marines are getting replaced eventually. Everything points to that fact. Sure, they'll tell us they won't pull the plug, but that's essentially what they are doing. It's just going to be a slow process over the next few years/editions. Will there eventually be a point when a Space Marine Codex is released without the older marines, maybe not, but that doesn't mean the line isn't effectively going away. About time too. The line had a great run for many many years. I'm excited to see what they do going forward as it can be something new instead of "look new Tactical squad now with Grav!" I'll still build and paint up my "old" marines. I really don't see what the problem is.

that or they focus the new kits MOSTLY on Primaris Marines continuing to support the old stuff, and maybe giving us new stuff mostly from the heresy (such as I could see them in a future HH stand alone game giving us an outrider squadron)

I must say that Primaris Marines have saved me an enormous amount of time trying to bash together "true scale" Marines.

From that perspective, they're brilliant.

The problem with primaris marines is that they completely go against the established fluff of the space marines. Guilliman basically threw his codex away a few years after he finished it, since to him time stayed still.

GW could have made a ton of easy cash if they released a 5-10 primaris box with every current normal space marine close combat and ranged weapon so those that wanted to convert a brand new true scale army would buy it.. and those that wanted to use the absurd new fluff could make a primaris army

But nope, we got the worst of both worlds due to some dogmatic decision to follow the stormcasts eternal release strategy. Even worse is that gw decided they didn't want veterans money.

 schoon wrote:
I must say that Primaris Marines have saved me an enormous amount of time trying to bash together "true scale" Marines.

From that perspective, they're brilliant.

Out of curiosity, do you do "Truescale" Eldar, Necrons, Orks and such too? After all, all of those are in the fluff roughly marine height one way or the other.

 Kirasu wrote:
The problem with primaris marines is that they completely go against the established fluff of the space marines. Guilliman basically threw his codex away a few years after he finished it, since to him time stayed still.

GW could have made a ton of easy cash if they released a 5-10 primaris box with every current normal space marine close combat and ranged weapon so those that wanted to convert a brand new true scale army would buy it.. and those that wanted to use the absurd new fluff could make a primaris army

But nope, we got the worst of both worlds due to some dogmatic decision to follow the stormcasts eternal release strategy. Even worse is that gw decided they didn't want veterans money.

Wasn't Guilliman's intention with the Codex Astartes to have it form the basis of Space Marine warfare, not to have it be a rigid structure that Space Marines should adhere to?

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 Kirasu wrote:
The problem with primaris marines is that they completely go against the established fluff of the space marines. Guilliman basically threw his codex away a few years after he finished it, since to him time stayed still.

GW could have made a ton of easy cash if they released a 5-10 primaris box with every current normal space marine close combat and ranged weapon so those that wanted to convert a brand new true scale army would buy it.. and those that wanted to use the absurd new fluff could make a primaris army

But nope, we got the worst of both worlds due to some dogmatic decision to follow the stormcasts eternal release strategy. Even worse is that gw decided they didn't want veterans money.

Wasn't Guilliman's intention with the Codex Astartes to have it form the basis of Space Marine warfare, not to have it be a rigid structure that Space Marines should adhere to?

Yes. The codex was more guidelines than actual rules. And written for the post-Heresy Imperium, which had very different assumptions (and foes). Adapting it is perfectly in keeping with what he intended, though not with the absurdist dogma his 'sons' turned it into.

It's worth noting Gulliman has apparently made some ammendments to the codex,

 Kirasu wrote:
Guilliman basically threw his codex away a few years after he finished it, since to him time stayed still.

It's a bad thing that Guilliman's beliefs changed in response to new factors and situations that weren't present before? It would have been preferable for him to rigidly defend a system that he put into place in a completely different age with completely different circumstances?

changemod wrote:

 schoon wrote:
I must say that Primaris Marines have saved me an enormous amount of time trying to bash together "true scale" Marines.

From that perspective, they're brilliant.

Out of curiosity, do you do "Truescale" Eldar, Necrons, Orks and such too? After all, all of those are in the fluff roughly marine height one way or the other.

Truescale folk tend to be Imperium players who just want their Marines to look "proper" next to their own human infantry, but to chime in for myself - yeah, for the ones I collect I do, all my Ork warbands kick each "rank" up one model size while bumping the heads down one; Boyz as Yoofs(Ironjawz heads), Nobz as Boyz(Boyz heads), Warbosses as Nobz(Nobz heads). They're not completely accurate and should actually be roughly halfway between Boy and Nob size for basic Boyz, but tbh while I like Orks I'm not willing to put in the amount of effort that would be required to make them perfectly scaled. The modern Eldar models actually look pretty right to me - the caped guy from the new triumvirate is only a tad shorter than the Primaris models - so I just use those as the basis for my occasional Panzy models rather than the ancient kits.

In the end though, it's not our fault GW can't maintain a consistent scale to save their lives, and we don't have infinite time to fix their mistakes

 BlaxicanX wrote:

 Kirasu wrote:
Guilliman basically threw his codex away a few years after he finished it, since to him time stayed still.

It's a bad thing that Guilliman's beliefs changed in response to new factors and situations that weren't present before? It would have been preferable for him to rigidly defend a system that he put into place in a completely different age with completely different circumstances?

Yes, because that would be exactly appropriate for a setting like 40K. The fossilisation of the Codex was one of the many things that exemplfied the decline and stagnation of humanity, even humanity's superhuman defenders, since the Heresy. Having Rowboat toddle in and reform the whole thing like an overeager new middle manager, along with all the other "progressive policies"(by 40K standards) he's enacting are undermining that aspect of the setting.

reivers and aggressors leaked..not sure where they originated from but thanks to whoever got these images!

Scouts are great. Terminators look a bit off to me...Like they should be really top heavy and fall over. Almost chibi big hand syndrome.

I think the most intreasting thing about those boxes it it looks like the flamegauntlets won't be the standard loadout. a missile pack and twin boltguns of some sort? could be intreasting, my guess is that those are bolt storm gauntlets. so over all you're looking at some sort of missile launcher, a pair o 12 inch range pistol 3s (swappable to flamers) and twin power fists.

absolutely terrifying


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Uriels_Flame wrote:
Almost chibi big hand syndrome.

Power fists

Weebles wobble but they don't fall down!

Now if there a flamestorm gauntlets, I want them on the new Dreadnought.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I want them to flame on just like gyrlymans sword!

I prefer my classical terminators but those Reivers are beautifull!

Interesting how the Reivers still look to lack the grav-chutes they have in the art. Maybe they aren't getting a Deep Strike rule at all like some speculated after seeing the art.

Aggressors look like less boxy and awful centurions in design to me, more than they resemble existing terminators. They aren't awful, but not amazing either.

I also like the grappling hook. Not the actual extended one because oh lord i can't imagine that thing staying in one piece if I do anything but keep it on my shelf, but both the concept and the one that's loaded.

That would be another kit.

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
Interesting how the Reivers still look to lack the grav-chutes they have in the art. Maybe they aren't getting a Deep Strike rule at all like some speculated after seeing the art.

on the other hand one CLEARLY has a grapling hook

 Yodhrin wrote:

Yes, because that would be exactly appropriate for a setting like 40K.

And yet it would not be appropriate for the character, and that takes precedence over "muh tone".

If you want to assert that Guilliman of all loyalist primarchs being brought back was a mistake because he's far too reasonable and intelligent to fit the tone of the 41st millennium, then okay, fair enough. Twisting the character's personality into a 180 after the fact however is silly.

The arms on the Aggressors look familiar...

What I don't like is that literally no one of the Reivers has a closed helmet! Only the skull mask.

GW, you better give me options to have all of my Reivers with the full helmet! My OCD can't wisthand a marine without a helmet in my army!

I am on board with both of these. The Aggressors look amazing. I really like the Reivers as well, but damn, those gauntlets are really cool. The missiles are icing on the cake.

I'd imagine the Aggressors have dual boltstorm gauntlets? The inbuilt guns look too small to be any other bolt weapon.
So 2 powerfists with inbuilt 3-shot bolt pistols.

Alright after looking them over I can say I like them quite a bit. The reiver poses look a lot better than the easy to build ones...which was kind of expected. Still hoping there are plenty of helmeted heads in the kit . The grappling hook while awesome has no chance of staying unbroken...at least not with my luck. The aggressors look good but I was so hoping the missile launchers left a spot or two open for missiles firing off like the missile launcher in the standard marine devastator kit. I guess that wouldn't be overly hard to convert though. Looks like a decent start to the primaris range of models so far.

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
I'd imagine the Aggressors have dual boltstorm gauntlets? The inbuilt guns look too small to be any other bolt weapon.
So 2 powerfists with inbuilt 3-shot bolt pistols.

The ammunition feeds are much larger. I would be fine if they were just Boltstorm Gauntlets, but these look much bigger.

 BlaxicanX wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:

Yes, because that would be exactly appropriate for a setting like 40K.

And yet it would not be appropriate for the character, and that takes precedence over "muh tone".

If you want to assert that Guilliman of all loyalist primarchs being brought back was a mistake because he's far too reasonable and intelligent to fit the tone of the 41st millennium, then okay, fair enough. Twisting the character's personality into a 180 after the fact however is silly.

Besides we do not know, yet, what his revisions are. despite the meme that the codex is some sort of paint by numbers book of tactics, it's clear that wasn't entirely it and that wasn't the source of the Ultramarines rigidity, (otherwise the 'nids would have eaten macragge) but rather the big part of it is an orginizational one. something people here have pointed out has some issues often, if the end effect of the chanegs are simply that marine chapters can be a bit bigger thats welcome news IMHO

Reivers are cool. The extended grappling hook gun is stupid. Anyone who builds it is asking for it to break, so really a useless option in the kit. Id assume with the hooks they might have deepstrike if they take them or something.

Agressors are cool. Those really are not boltstorm gauntlets. The gun is way to big to be one.

All of this coolness depends fully on points cost though, as currently, primaris points costs blows hard all around.

Actually I really like the point that Ultramarines are normally depicted as following very to the letter the Codex Astartes. But I think that the problem is how they depict that.
Legal characters that follow a strict code to the end (A end that normally isn't good for that same reason) are my favourite type of characters and storys.

If Ultramarines where depicted as being very rigid about how they interpret the Codex Astartes but paying for that, instead of "We win because the Codex Astartes is perfect and solves everything!" I think more people could like them more.

But on the other hand, many people like to take the kool aid of internet hyperbole and put the blame on Ultramarines because they are the GW posterboys when 90% of other factions storys, novels and Codexs are just as "THEY ARE DA BEST" as the Ultramarines one writted by Matt Ward.
My poor Dark Angels, from "We have a big secret for our past sins , and are in a redemption journey that isn't gonna end until the last Fallen has ben purged" to "OMG A FALLEn LETS KILL EVERY OF OUR ALLIES OR JUST ABANDON THEM TO DIE! WE AREN'T CHAOS GUYS LOL"

Okay, weird question that goes back to the mian topic, shouldn't the codex: astartes actually be available for preorder by now? Assuming it is still coming this month, there are two weeks left. I'd assume they'd want at least a little bit of time.

SilverAlien wrote:
Okay, weird question that goes back to the mian topic, shouldn't the codex: astartes actually be available for preorder by now? Assuming it is still coming this month, there are two weeks left. I'd assume they'd want at least a little bit of time.

Pre-orders are rumored for next weekend