Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Vanguards/rangers are now leadership 6-7 compared to 8-9 like they used to be. Along with the fact that they can't hide behind techpriests anymore that's a huge survivability nerf. Not to mention that galvanic rifles used to be AP4 which translated as AP -1 into 8th edition. But not for AdMech. Because apparently magoses are all much dumber than thechmarines and can't create a good weapon, so we only get AP -1 on 6s to wound.

Everything got a leadership nerf, they can reroll with a small upgrade and get +1 if they're near our vehicles
Galvanic rifles are still good still better than a bolt gun, the standard marine gun. And FNP was taken away from almost everything, an Invunl save is almost as good now without instant death

Destroyers are now roughly on the same power level while becoming significantly more expensive. Plasma cannon is better but grav is still generally better overall. They are also a 3-wounds model that kill themselves on plasma overcharge.

Again they have options now, can ignore cover with their phosphor and cognis flamers are still good, and if you have a tech priest near by they can reroll 1s or canticle reroll 1s.

Breachers are also more expensive while becoming much worse at killing vehicles - heavy arc rifle is awful and torsion cannon is a poor man's multimelta.

Still on the fence about these

Ruststalkers and infiltrators lost their FNP, lost their movement bonus + ruststalkers lost their AP 2 on second turn along with grenades and infiltrators lost stealth, shredding pistols and their aura is now pretty much useless. What's the point of making a unit cheaper while removing special rules if special rules was the whole point of that unit?

They took a small hit, but they're much, much cheaper. Yes Infiltrators got hit the most, but Rust stalkers, I think you're severely underestimating how powerful mortal wounds are

Ignore cover is not nearly as powerful, since it's just an addition to and armor save and the only guys that get it are vanguards and rangers which are going to die in droves now.

Its pretty powerful in this edition, i wouldnt underestimate ignore cover

Everything is going to die in droves now, thats how this edition is designed

Electropriests are still a slow moving bunch of T3 guys with a garbage save in an army with no transports, so they are still going to get mowed through by any capable shooting.

They're as fast as almost every other foot slogging assault unit without jump, they're much much cheaper and they actually have this editions version of FNP which can be taken against anything, even mortal wounds.

Duncrawlers and robots were good. They are still good. Nothing has changed

They got better and cheaper

Dragoons/Balistarri got tougher and better.

And best of all you're not locked in to what the War Con requires you to bring, so you dont have to take ruststalkers/Infiltrators if you dont want to.

davethepak wrote:

 flakpanzer wrote:
So the text of the Woods terrain in the Advanced section of the Rulebook reads as follows:

INFANTRY units that are entirely on the base of a wood receive the benefit of cover. If your wood is not on a base, discuss with your opponent what the boundary of the wood is before the battle begins.

OTHER UNITS only receive the benefit of cover if at least 50% of every model is actually obscured from the point of view of the shooting unit.

Does that mean that if I have a unit on one side of a wood that is shooting at your INFANTRY unit completely on the opposite side of the wood, there is no penalty (as long as I can see models to shoot them)?

Personally, look at the woods - do they make it harder to see the models on the other side? if you modeled them densely, they should.

This is where you just ask the other player - "hey, I did not buy a ton of trees for this, but you wanna say it gives cover shooting across it"

Good point! Thanks for the response.

Sorry if are stupids questions but,

its possible to re-roll dices more than one time?

Its possible to use the same ability/rule more than one time? (for example an hability of ignore wounds on 6+)

 NivlacSupreme wrote:
I feel like the tournament guys being involved might make the game too "clinical". You know, simple, dumbed down and not following the fluff to make a new game.

EDIT: New wasn't the word I was looking for. More along the lines of a game that goes really quickly so that they can determine who wins faster and isn't very in depth.

Then don't play matched play (tournament play) where these guys have the expertise
Play narrative play which was designed for cool scenarios of defender vs attacker and doesn't have as many limits for balance.

Sadly...you have been able to do this in the past (because why actually use stats as written). I suspect you will be able to in the new edition.

 Luciferian wrote:

changemod wrote:
I own 11,000 points worth of Necrons but I only have 20 warriors.

Well, at least that's kind of impressive in itself. I get it though, I do my best to avoid troops at all costs.

Oh no I generally fielded a decentish number of immortals, it's just I didn't really fluff my Necron dynasty as the type of people to flood the board with lobotomised civillians.

Vorian wrote:

Are people really unable to wait a couple of weeks to get a codex for this? I mean, jeeez

Why wait when you can be hysterical NOW!

dosmill wrote:
Taking into account the leaks and whatnot, how does one go about creating an iyanden army list in 8th edition?

Do I simply take the wraithguard units and hope I have enough points to fulfill detachments etc? Forgive me if I am confused, but, well, I am.

Take the vanguard detachment.. 1 HQ 3-6 elites. and take a Spearhead detachment if you want more than 2 heavy choices.

Also no psykers, no priests, and no blobs, other than scripts.... That's kinda sad

I'm perfectly fine with things being simplified. People have been begging for a restart of everything and here it is.

Things will get more complex as codex are released.

Vorian wrote:

 Enginseer Kalashnikov wrote:

 Swara wrote:

zerosignal wrote:

 buddha wrote:
Well crap, the death guard army list has no bikers, raptors, terminators, heldrakes, mauler fiends,havoks, or chosen which I have models for. I guess just make up some random renegade chapter in the meantime?

You have no idea how angry I am right now - having spent a few hundred pounds buying a new vectorium-based death guard army, I now find my army list is pretty much invalid.

No bikes, terminators, havocs.

I have two heldrakes - luckily still shrink-wrapped.

This whole thing is an utter disaster - and it was all a plan for my 40th birthday.

I feel like geedurps just pissed in my cornflakes

Can you not just give all those mark of Nurgle though and use them? They won't get some of the bonuses, but you can still use them in the same attachment.

That'd also be pretty stupid. Since suddenly your terminators, lords and havocs aren't as tough as your plague marines...even though they are plague marines in the lore. So we're supposed to expect that after putting on a suit of better armour, rising in the ranks or picking up a better gun, the marine just suddenly became weaker?

Are people really unable to wait a couple of weeks to get a codex for this? I mean, jeeez

I'd be fine with waiting for a while. However, it is clear that a very large number of units have already bizzarely been excluded from use for the death guard. I find it very unlikely that GW will go back on this decision, as the codexes sound to be more wbout expanding on what we have been given that correcting any mistakes they have made. Also, whatever book the death guard are in will most likely be out in at most two months, so its already probably done and uncorrectable at this point. So pretty much my raptors, havocs and terminators are now completely useless to me.

 WrentheFaceless wrote:

Vanguards/rangers are now leadership 6-7 compared to 8-9 like they used to be. Along with the fact that they can't hide behind techpriests anymore that's a huge survivability nerf. Not to mention that galvanic rifles used to be AP4 which translated as AP -1 into 8th edition. But not for AdMech. Because apparently magoses are all much dumber than thechmarines and can't create a good weapon, so we only get AP -1 on 6s to wound.

Everything got a leadership nerf, they can reroll with a small upgrade and get +1 if they're near our vehicles
Galvanic rifles are still good still better than a bolt gun, the standard marine gun. And FNP was taken away from almost everything, an Invunl save is almost as good now without instant death

Destroyers are now roughly on the same power level while becoming significantly more expensive. Plasma cannon is better but grav is still generally better overall. They are also a 3-wounds model that kill themselves on plasma overcharge.

Again they have options now, can ignore cover with their phosphor and cognis flamers are still good, and if you have a tech priest near by they can reroll 1s or canticle reroll 1s.

Breachers are also more expensive while becoming much worse at killing vehicles - heavy arc rifle is awful and torsion cannon is a poor man's multimelta.

Still on the fence about these

Ruststalkers and infiltrators lost their FNP, lost their movement bonus + ruststalkers lost their AP 2 on second turn along with grenades and infiltrators lost stealth, shredding pistols and their aura is now pretty much useless. What's the point of making a unit cheaper while removing special rules if special rules was the whole point of that unit?

They took a small hit, but they're much, much cheaper. Yes Infiltrators got hit the most, but Rust stalkers, I think you're severely underestimating how powerful mortal wounds are

Ignore cover is not nearly as powerful, since it's just an addition to and armor save and the only guys that get it are vanguards and rangers which are going to die in droves now.

Its pretty powerful in this edition, i wouldnt underestimate ignore cover

Everything is going to die in droves now, thats how this edition is designed

Electropriests are still a slow moving bunch of T3 guys with a garbage save in an army with no transports, so they are still going to get mowed through by any capable shooting.

They're as fast as almost every other foot slogging assault unit without jump, they're much much cheaper and they actually have this editions version of FNP which can be taken against anything, even mortal wounds.

Duncrawlers and robots were good. They are still good. Nothing has changed

They got better and cheaper

Dragoons/Balistarri got tougher and better.

And best of all you're not locked in to what the War Con requires you to bring, so you dont have to take ruststalkers/Infiltrators if you dont want to.

We don't get locked into WarConvo, but for those of us with one... this kinda sucks. I like Infiltrators as they were. The nerf seems unwarranted.

All I can hope for is that the Codex brings in some new rules and maybe Relics and FoCs that make things a bit more interesting.

zamerion wrote:
Sorry if are stupids questions but,

its possible to re-roll dices more than one time?

Its possible to use the same ability/rule more than one time? (for example an hability of ignore wounds on 6+)

Page 178 of the 8e main rulebook:

"You can never re-roll a dice more than once, and re-rolls happen before modifiers (if any) are applied."

zamerion wrote:
Sorry if are stupids questions but,

its possible to re-roll dices more than one time?

Its possible to use the same ability/rule more than one time? (for example an hability of ignore wounds on 6+)

No on multiple rerolls. Many powers say once per turn in the text, if it doesn't say that, you can use it multiple times.

 RegulusBlack wrote:
Also no psykers, no priests, and no blobs, other than scripts.... That's kinda sad

Priests are in a separate imperial faction but can still join. No reason to have blobs anymore, I don't really see any advantage to having 50 guys in 1 unit vs 5 units of 10 guys. There is no difference in 8th.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Enginseer Kalashnikov wrote:

Vorian wrote:

 Enginseer Kalashnikov wrote:

 Swara wrote:

zerosignal wrote:

 buddha wrote:
Well crap, the death guard army list has no bikers, raptors, terminators, heldrakes, mauler fiends,havoks, or chosen which I have models for. I guess just make up some random renegade chapter in the meantime?

You have no idea how angry I am right now - having spent a few hundred pounds buying a new vectorium-based death guard army, I now find my army list is pretty much invalid.

No bikes, terminators, havocs.

I have two heldrakes - luckily still shrink-wrapped.

This whole thing is an utter disaster - and it was all a plan for my 40th birthday.

I feel like geedurps just pissed in my cornflakes

Can you not just give all those mark of Nurgle though and use them? They won't get some of the bonuses, but you can still use them in the same attachment.

That'd also be pretty stupid. Since suddenly your terminators, lords and havocs aren't as tough as your plague marines...even though they are plague marines in the lore. So we're supposed to expect that after putting on a suit of better armour, rising in the ranks or picking up a better gun, the marine just suddenly became weaker?

Are people really unable to wait a couple of weeks to get a codex for this? I mean, jeeez

I'd be fine with waiting for a while. However, it is clear that a very large number of units have already bizzarely been excluded from use for the death guard. I find it very unlikely that GW will go back on this decision, as the codexes sound to be more wbout expanding on what we have been given that correcting any mistakes they have made. Also, whatever book the death guard are in will most likely be out in at most two months, so its already probably done and uncorrectable at this point. So pretty much my raptors, havocs and terminators are now completely useless to me.

OR you take 2 detachments one of deathguard and the other of nurgle CSM.

 Asmodai wrote:

 Powerfisting wrote:

 Asmodai wrote:

 Grinshanks wrote:
I know everyone got their knickers in a twist over the formation crazy last edition.

But now that everything has been leaked, this editions seems really, reeeeally bland.

Seems like everything rule has been reduced to -save and D6 damage.

Read the lists in the back of the 3rd ed. rulebook and your reaction would be similar. These are get-you-by lists until the full Codexes come out for each army. For that, they're actually much better than the 3rd ed. ones were.

These leaks look like they're coming from the real books though, not printouts or WD pages. Unless you mean the bigger books are stopgap and proper codexes as we know them now are gonna come later? that sort of ruins the whole anthology codex approach to me.

Stopgaps are exactly what the Indexes are - there's a reason why they're Indexes and not Codexes.

was it confirmed that the indexes would be incomplete, though? My impression was that the dedicated codicies would be a lot of fluff and flavor but if you only had the indexes, you would have all the crunch you needed to actually play the game?

 Powerfisting wrote:

was it confirmed that the indexes would be incomplete, though? My impression was that the dedicated codicies would be a lot of fluff and flavor but if you only had the indexes, you would have all the crunch you needed to actually play the game?

You have everything you need to actually play the game now.

Breng77 wrote:

 RegulusBlack wrote:
Also no psykers, no priests, and no blobs, other than scripts.... That's kinda sad

Priests are in a separate imperial faction but can still join. No reason to have blobs anymore, I don't really see any advantage to having 50 guys in 1 unit vs 5 units of 10 guys. There is no difference in 8th.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Enginseer Kalashnikov wrote:

Vorian wrote:

 Enginseer Kalashnikov wrote:

 Swara wrote:

zerosignal wrote:

 buddha wrote:
Well crap, the death guard army list has no bikers, raptors, terminators, heldrakes, mauler fiends,havoks, or chosen which I have models for. I guess just make up some random renegade chapter in the meantime?

You have no idea how angry I am right now - having spent a few hundred pounds buying a new vectorium-based death guard army, I now find my army list is pretty much invalid.

No bikes, terminators, havocs.

I have two heldrakes - luckily still shrink-wrapped.

This whole thing is an utter disaster - and it was all a plan for my 40th birthday.

I feel like geedurps just pissed in my cornflakes

Can you not just give all those mark of Nurgle though and use them? They won't get some of the bonuses, but you can still use them in the same attachment.

That'd also be pretty stupid. Since suddenly your terminators, lords and havocs aren't as tough as your plague marines...even though they are plague marines in the lore. So we're supposed to expect that after putting on a suit of better armour, rising in the ranks or picking up a better gun, the marine just suddenly became weaker?

Are people really unable to wait a couple of weeks to get a codex for this? I mean, jeeez

I'd be fine with waiting for a while. However, it is clear that a very large number of units have already bizzarely been excluded from use for the death guard. I find it very unlikely that GW will go back on this decision, as the codexes sound to be more wbout expanding on what we have been given that correcting any mistakes they have made. Also, whatever book the death guard are in will most likely be out in at most two months, so its already probably done and uncorrectable at this point. So pretty much my raptors, havocs and terminators are now completely useless to me.

OR you take 2 detachments one of deathguard and the other of nurgle CSM.

No blob squad for guard means no ordering your 40man squad to FRFSRF. That seems like a bit of a nerf to Guard order efficiency.

The Death Guard list is likely "we won't be doing Death Guard models for some stuff going forward, so won't leave backwards compatibility built into the stopgap rules".

I'd imagine they'll be one of the first two nuCodexes, so won't be long to wait and see what's new, what's being fleshed out, and what's dropped. Until then you can still play everyone as CSM so no-one needs any YouTube bonfires, ya hear? :-)

 Enginseer Kalashnikov wrote:

Vorian wrote:

 Enginseer Kalashnikov wrote:

 Swara wrote:

zerosignal wrote:

 buddha wrote:
Well crap, the death guard army list has no bikers, raptors, terminators, heldrakes, mauler fiends,havoks, or chosen which I have models for. I guess just make up some random renegade chapter in the meantime?

You have no idea how angry I am right now - having spent a few hundred pounds buying a new vectorium-based death guard army, I now find my army list is pretty much invalid.

No bikes, terminators, havocs.

I have two heldrakes - luckily still shrink-wrapped.

This whole thing is an utter disaster - and it was all a plan for my 40th birthday.

I feel like geedurps just pissed in my cornflakes

Can you not just give all those mark of Nurgle though and use them? They won't get some of the bonuses, but you can still use them in the same attachment.

That'd also be pretty stupid. Since suddenly your terminators, lords and havocs aren't as tough as your plague marines...even though they are plague marines in the lore. So we're supposed to expect that after putting on a suit of better armour, rising in the ranks or picking up a better gun, the marine just suddenly became weaker?

Are people really unable to wait a couple of weeks to get a codex for this? I mean, jeeez

I'd be fine with waiting for a while. However, it is clear that a very large number of units have already bizzarely been excluded from use for the death guard. I find it very unlikely that GW will go back on this decision, as the codexes sound to be more wbout expanding on what we have been given that correcting any mistakes they have made. Also, whatever book the death guard are in will most likely be out in at most two months, so its already probably done and uncorrectable at this point. So pretty much my raptors, havocs and terminators are now completely useless to me.

You have absolutely no idea what the 8th edition codex will look like. As they are releasing terminators for them it seems a pretty good bet Terminators will be in.

Yeah Astropath, Priests and others are a seperate entry in Index Imperium II. They ALL have the Astra Militarum keyword, so no worries

Vorian wrote:

Are people really unable to wait a couple of weeks to get a codex for this? I mean, jeeez

Have GW confirmed a couple of weeks for the Codex? No, they themselves have not. We've only gotten the rumours.

If the Indexes are a 'stop gap' list then why remove units that would effectively be stop-gap units until the Faction book was released? Particularly when those missing units have been staple of that faction's playerbase's armies for 4 editions now?

Imagine you're a Blood Angel player and suddenly you can't take assault squads.

'Oh, but rumours say you'll get a new Codex soon.' 'It's just a stop gap.'

Yet you've had Assault Marines as part of your army for 4 editions. All your old army fluff features assault marines. Would you really be happy that a core of your army was torn out from a stop gap list based on a rumour that has yet to be confirmed?

 Twoshoes23 wrote:

Breng77 wrote:

 RegulusBlack wrote:
Also no psykers, no priests, and no blobs, other than scripts.... That's kinda sad

Priests are in a separate imperial faction but can still join. No reason to have blobs anymore, I don't really see any advantage to having 50 guys in 1 unit vs 5 units of 10 guys. There is no difference in 8th.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Enginseer Kalashnikov wrote:

Vorian wrote:

 Enginseer Kalashnikov wrote:

 Swara wrote:

zerosignal wrote:

 buddha wrote:
Well crap, the death guard army list has no bikers, raptors, terminators, heldrakes, mauler fiends,havoks, or chosen which I have models for. I guess just make up some random renegade chapter in the meantime?

You have no idea how angry I am right now - having spent a few hundred pounds buying a new vectorium-based death guard army, I now find my army list is pretty much invalid.

No bikes, terminators, havocs.

I have two heldrakes - luckily still shrink-wrapped.

This whole thing is an utter disaster - and it was all a plan for my 40th birthday.

I feel like geedurps just pissed in my cornflakes

Can you not just give all those mark of Nurgle though and use them? They won't get some of the bonuses, but you can still use them in the same attachment.

That'd also be pretty stupid. Since suddenly your terminators, lords and havocs aren't as tough as your plague marines...even though they are plague marines in the lore. So we're supposed to expect that after putting on a suit of better armour, rising in the ranks or picking up a better gun, the marine just suddenly became weaker?

Are people really unable to wait a couple of weeks to get a codex for this? I mean, jeeez

I'd be fine with waiting for a while. However, it is clear that a very large number of units have already bizzarely been excluded from use for the death guard. I find it very unlikely that GW will go back on this decision, as the codexes sound to be more wbout expanding on what we have been given that correcting any mistakes they have made. Also, whatever book the death guard are in will most likely be out in at most two months, so its already probably done and uncorrectable at this point. So pretty much my raptors, havocs and terminators are now completely useless to me.

OR you take 2 detachments one of deathguard and the other of nurgle CSM.

No blob squad for guard means no ordering your 40man squad to FRFSRF. That seems like a bit of a nerf to Guard order efficiency.

Slightly, you will need more commanders to get the same effect. That said a blob with FRFSRF and splitfire might be a bit broken don't you think.

Guys, look at the Big Mek for orks... looks like the unit has to be entirely within the 9" bubble for the effects, which is kinda annoying but at least it went up. BTW, anyone got the data sheet for the Blitza-Bommer as it seems to be missing.

 Enginseer Kalashnikov wrote:

Vorian wrote:

 Enginseer Kalashnikov wrote:

 Swara wrote:

zerosignal wrote:

 buddha wrote:
Well crap, the death guard army list has no bikers, raptors, terminators, heldrakes, mauler fiends,havoks, or chosen which I have models for. I guess just make up some random renegade chapter in the meantime?

You have no idea how angry I am right now - having spent a few hundred pounds buying a new vectorium-based death guard army, I now find my army list is pretty much invalid.

No bikes, terminators, havocs.

I have two heldrakes - luckily still shrink-wrapped.

This whole thing is an utter disaster - and it was all a plan for my 40th birthday.

I feel like geedurps just pissed in my cornflakes

Can you not just give all those mark of Nurgle though and use them? They won't get some of the bonuses, but you can still use them in the same attachment.

That'd also be pretty stupid. Since suddenly your terminators, lords and havocs aren't as tough as your plague marines...even though they are plague marines in the lore. So we're supposed to expect that after putting on a suit of better armour, rising in the ranks or picking up a better gun, the marine just suddenly became weaker?

Are people really unable to wait a couple of weeks to get a codex for this? I mean, jeeez

I'd be fine with waiting for a while. However, it is clear that a very large number of units have already bizzarely been excluded from use for the death guard. I find it very unlikely that GW will go back on this decision, as the codexes sound to be more wbout expanding on what we have been given that correcting any mistakes they have made. Also, whatever book the death guard are in will most likely be out in at most two months, so its already probably done and uncorrectable at this point. So pretty much my raptors, havocs and terminators are now completely useless to me.

You mean the Army Lists that come with the box, only have rules for units which come in the box? No way, my mind is blown.

You have a teaser of Mortarion, you've actually seen some of the new stuff, it seems like you're ignoring the obvious in order to get upset about something minor

If that's what you enjoy, more power to you, I'm just pointing out that you're likely to be far ahead of most others before they end of summer

 Powerfisting wrote:

 Asmodai wrote:

 Powerfisting wrote:

 Asmodai wrote:

 Grinshanks wrote:
I know everyone got their knickers in a twist over the formation crazy last edition.

But now that everything has been leaked, this editions seems really, reeeeally bland.

Seems like everything rule has been reduced to -save and D6 damage.

Read the lists in the back of the 3rd ed. rulebook and your reaction would be similar. These are get-you-by lists until the full Codexes come out for each army. For that, they're actually much better than the 3rd ed. ones were.

These leaks look like they're coming from the real books though, not printouts or WD pages. Unless you mean the bigger books are stopgap and proper codexes as we know them now are gonna come later? that sort of ruins the whole anthology codex approach to me.

Stopgaps are exactly what the Indexes are - there's a reason why they're Indexes and not Codexes.

was it confirmed that the indexes would be incomplete, though? My impression was that the dedicated codicies would be a lot of fluff and flavor but if you only had the indexes, you would have all the crunch you needed to actually play the game?

8th edition rule book pg 175:
"A codex is the ultimate resource for your chosen army (or armies!), containing datasheets for the miniautres that are part of a particular Faction. But that's not all - in codexes you'll also find army-specific specail rules that reflect the character of the army and exciting Warlord Traits, Stratagems, wargear, and even unique relics"

Sounds like a lot more than flavor text.

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:

 Enginseer Kalashnikov wrote:

Vorian wrote:

 Enginseer Kalashnikov wrote:

 Swara wrote:

zerosignal wrote:

 buddha wrote:
Well crap, the death guard army list has no bikers, raptors, terminators, heldrakes, mauler fiends,havoks, or chosen which I have models for. I guess just make up some random renegade chapter in the meantime?

You have no idea how angry I am right now - having spent a few hundred pounds buying a new vectorium-based death guard army, I now find my army list is pretty much invalid.

No bikes, terminators, havocs.

I have two heldrakes - luckily still shrink-wrapped.

This whole thing is an utter disaster - and it was all a plan for my 40th birthday.

I feel like geedurps just pissed in my cornflakes

Can you not just give all those mark of Nurgle though and use them? They won't get some of the bonuses, but you can still use them in the same attachment.

That'd also be pretty stupid. Since suddenly your terminators, lords and havocs aren't as tough as your plague marines...even though they are plague marines in the lore. So we're supposed to expect that after putting on a suit of better armour, rising in the ranks or picking up a better gun, the marine just suddenly became weaker?

Are people really unable to wait a couple of weeks to get a codex for this? I mean, jeeez

I'd be fine with waiting for a while. However, it is clear that a very large number of units have already bizzarely been excluded from use for the death guard. I find it very unlikely that GW will go back on this decision, as the codexes sound to be more wbout expanding on what we have been given that correcting any mistakes they have made. Also, whatever book the death guard are in will most likely be out in at most two months, so its already probably done and uncorrectable at this point. So pretty much my raptors, havocs and terminators are now completely useless to me.

You mean the Army Lists that come with the box, only have rules for units which come in the box? No way, my mind is blown.

I'm talking about the unit restrictions that are on the actual death guard page in the chaos index. Nice attempt at being a smartass though.

 DarkStarSabre wrote:

Vorian wrote:

Are people really unable to wait a couple of weeks to get a codex for this? I mean, jeeez

Have GW confirmed a couple of weeks for the Codex? No, they themselves have not. We've only gotten the rumours.

If the Indexes are a 'stop gap' list then why remove units that would effectively be stop-gap units until the Faction book was released? Particularly when those missing units have been staple of that faction's playerbase's armies for 4 editions now?

Imagine you're a Blood Angel player and suddenly you can't take assault squads.

'Oh, but rumours say you'll get a new Codex soon.' 'It's just a stop gap.'

Yet you've had Assault Marines as part of your army for 4 editions. All your old army fluff features assault marines. Would you really be happy that a core of your army was torn out from a stop gap list based on a rumour that has yet to be confirmed?

Back in 3rd/4th, death guard used to get almost only plague marines, no bikes, no raptors, etc. After that there were no death guard for a long while and the legion codex finally came like last year. I guess it didn't have plague marine bikers either?

Vorian wrote:
You have a teaser of Mortarion, you've actually seen some of the new stuff, it seems like you're ignoring the obvious in order to get upset about something minor

If that's what you enjoy, more power to you, I'm just pointing out that you're likely to be far ahead of most others before they end of summer

We saw the Death Guard images, including the teaser of Mortarion months ago. Iirc we're hitting the 3 month mark now.

I really have to say I love how people are just so reluctant to actually stand up and go 'hang on, that's a bit messed up.' We're just that complacent to sit there and get a bum deal. Really now?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 jamopower wrote:

 DarkStarSabre wrote:

Vorian wrote:

Are people really unable to wait a couple of weeks to get a codex for this? I mean, jeeez

Have GW confirmed a couple of weeks for the Codex? No, they themselves have not. We've only gotten the rumours.

If the Indexes are a 'stop gap' list then why remove units that would effectively be stop-gap units until the Faction book was released? Particularly when those missing units have been staple of that faction's playerbase's armies for 4 editions now?

Imagine you're a Blood Angel player and suddenly you can't take assault squads.

'Oh, but rumours say you'll get a new Codex soon.' 'It's just a stop gap.'

Yet you've had Assault Marines as part of your army for 4 editions. All your old army fluff features assault marines. Would you really be happy that a core of your army was torn out from a stop gap list based on a rumour that has yet to be confirmed?

Back in 3rd/4th, death guard used to get almost only plague marines, no bikes, no raptors, etc. After that there were no death guard for a long while and the legion codex finally came like last year. I guess it didn't have plague marine bikers either?

Would you like me to fish out the original Index Astartes list from 3rd edition? Where we had Cult Terminators, Plague Marines, Havocs (that took special weapons), Veterans (now called Chosen) and our restriction was the amount of transports we took? Or are you trying to imply that I'm upset about bikes - which I personally never used and were only a thing for a grand total of 6 months with Traitor Legions.

Read up. My concerns are the fact that Terminators, Chosen and Havocs have completely disappeared from our options. Even more laughable is the fact that Sorcerers with Palanquins are ALSO not available to Death Guard.