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Made in us
Foul Dwimmerlaik






Minneapolis, MN

Not sure if its true, but I hope so as alot of changes that were made in the DA codex being rumored to be brought into the SM redux made little sense.

This was taken from a thread at warseer.
www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php


Firstly, I didnt place this under the 600 post thread because honestly its gotten to long for any normal person to read. This has tons of good info and I think people will be very happy with this.

I just got talking to my long time friend a game developer in the studio about the rumors of the Codex Space Marine Redux. He is very reliable and has no reason to lie to me. I thought I would post a few points of our discussion below.

1) Codex Space Marine is low priority and won’t be coming out for at least 2 years or more if it comes. Currently they are the biggest seller and don’t think it needs too much attention such as other ones. Tons of focus is being put on the upcoming Orcs they really want to get it right.

2) The way terminator squads work will not be changing at all. Also the number of heavy weapons they can take will be 2 as it always has been. They changed this in the DA codex only because of the flexibility of mixing assault/normal terminator squads and give the Death Wing a distinct feel.

3) Lascannons will not be going up in price such as in the DA codex. The reason this was done is because they really wanted to make people use Plasma Cannons in DA army to help give it a distinct look.

4) Rhinos/Razorbacks will be dropping in price. With the current 4th edition rules they realize now that they are a tad overpriced and underused currently. (P.S. expect to see a decrease in all track transports, i.e. IG, chaos)

5) Assault cannons will not be changed in function but about a 5point increase across the board will be placed upon them. They currently feel they are not overpowered but need a slight point increase. (Side note here I asked him about starcannons and he said that a 36" AP2 weapon with 3 shots was just too good because no other army has that many plasma shots for weapons so it was changed to 2. Also the range of the 24" assault cannon helps keeps it in control and that it can’t be placed in many units helps control it.) (Thank God)!!!

6) Scouts in Codex Space marine will remain troop. This was once again changed to help change the feel of the DA codex and make it more unique.

7) Tactical squads will be changing but not how people think. Combat squads will not be done the same way in the new codex as the DA codex. He would not give me too much info on this but he said it will only give more options to people. (After bugging him about this for a long time I think that they plan on making Krak/Frag Grenades and possibly pistols free if you buy 10 man squads to promote larger squads). He did assure me though those SM tac squads will only get better because currently they need some tweaking. (I took away from the conversation that you will get a “bonus” if you take 10 man squads such as free wargear)

8) Vehicles will be getting a tad cheaper and no worries Dreadnaughts will not be going up in price. In codex DA they didnt want assault cannons used but instead the more fluffy Plasma Cannons (They plan on selling plastic plasma cannon and need to make it more attractive to sell).

9) The armory will not be going away they want the flexibility to remain.

10) Powerfists will go up a few points in squads but not much and other things such as LCs will become slightly cheaper for single wound models. (They feel that it’s become the only option people take now)

11) They plan on adding some new traits and expanding this somewhat. Also the disadvantages will be changed some and he said that We stand alone is as good as gone ha-ha!

12) Drop Pods will be going up in price but losing the immobilized issue. Expect a 25% increase in cost. (also a plastic DP is coming)

13) Basically he finished up by saying they don’t plan on doing a major overhaul on the codex and to "nerf" the codex mostly they want to expand some options such as traits to help promote do it yourself chapters because it has helped people "buy" more stuff in order to create more original armies. He did stress also to me that people should not read to much into what has changed in just the DA codex it was done to give the army an more unique flavor the same as you cant expect to see the changed from the BT codex.



Edited the post to make clear where the source was from.


   
Made in gb
Highlord with a Blackstone Fortress






Adrift within the vortex of my imagination.

Thankyou, I hoper your contact is more reliable than the store manager I spoke to.

n'oublie jamais - It appears I now have to highlight this again.

It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. By the juice of the brew my thoughts aquire speed, my mind becomes strained, the strain becomes a warning. It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. 
   
Made in us
Legendary Dogfighter





Alexandria, VA

looks like some good things here. I could see many people excited about the plastic drop pod, but then again, it will probably be released with the new codex, in 2 years.
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





Interesting

Personally I think their taking the wrong route with pods, as any major point increase makes them a costly, and questionable point investment. (as in 50 pts per pod is to much) Especially, considering they are the basis for marines most famous attack style.  I probably would have said that pods count as destroyed when totalling VPs, but they neglected to ask me. 

Why on earth they think a weapon that can fufill every funtion in the game is balanced is beyond me.  Or how increasing the cost of them by a whopping 5 points is going to change the spamming of them. 

More traits? How about balanced disadvantages first!

Scouts still need some help, they just don't stack up to the silly cost effectiveness of tactical marines. 

On the bright side, cheaper vehicles are a good start, as well as the fact that we won't see another marine codex for 2 years.


Be Joe Cool. 
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Sentient OverBear






Clearwater, FL

Well, they seem to think that limiting which units can take assault cannons is more important than anything else.  I like that fix for that particular problem.

I also hope the drawbacks are actual drawbacks this time around.  It'd be awfully nice.

The news about reducing the cost of tracked vehicles in general is very, very interesting as well.

Did they mention anything about editors?  A HA HA HA HA HAAAA!  I'm hilarious.

DQ:70S++G+++M+B++I+Pw40k94+ID+++A++/sWD178R+++T(I)DM+++

Trust me, no matter what damage they have the potential to do, single-shot weapons always flatter to deceive in 40k.                                                                                                       Rule #1
- BBAP

 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




Orlando, Florida

This is very good news, thanks for the info Hellfury.
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User





Will these proposed changes take place in 2 years with a new codex or are some of them (like the AC point increase) going to come out in an upcoming FAQ, I wonder?
   
Made in us
Deathwing Terminator with Assault Cannon






Thanks!

If this holds true, I'll be very happy.
   
Made in us
Clousseau





Wilmington DE

Interesting. It sounds like most of the changes are good, though I hope it'll come with an across the board points increase for marines (or will make other lists cheaper as they come out). As it stands right now, marines are just too cheap for what they do.

Guinness: for those who are men of the cloth and football fans, but not necessarily in that order.

I think the lesson here is the best way to enjoy GW's games is to not use any of their rules.--Crimson Devil 
   
Made in us
Tunneling Trygon





Is it me, or is it sorta goofy to take the ability to charge away from Rapid-Fire weapons, and then start giving units pistols so they can shoot and charge again?



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Made in us
Plastictrees



Amongst the Stars, In the Night

Ah, that old chestnut of GW excuses: "We did it for flavor!" Not that it surprises me any, but it's like their saying they made IG las cannons and plasma guns more expensive so they'd see less of them. Of course, instead, they see less guardsmen. If they wanted to see more DA plasma cannons, why not, you know, make PC's cheaper? Or FAQ the slowed blast template rules back to v3 style or something else instead of the woefully ineffective drek currently available?

I get wanting to put a mild price increase on the Assault Cannon. It's a very fine piece of kit. But to then kill the usefulness of DW termie squads by both eliminating any second heavy weapon, limiting the squad to five and then making them fearless (which is much more of a con than a pro), well, it's just very, very typical of GW lazy "just good enough" rules writing. Ditto with the free bolt pistols. Chocolate starfish flavor...

OT Zone: A More Wretched Hive of Scum and Villany
The Loyal Slave learns to Love the Lash! 
   
Made in us
Most Glorious Grey Seer





Everett, WA

I just want them to fix the "loophole" where a Marine can use a Bolter along with his Lascannon.

 
   
Made in us
Unbalanced Fanatic





Minneapolis, MN

This all sounds like good news, much like a slight fix to level things out a bit.  The additional cost for lascannons has been long overdue.  Every time I pay 25pts for an IG lascannon it pisses me off.  Also, Drop Pods should be about 50pts IMHO.  The Drop Pod list was a total hit or miss deal based on army type.  It annihilated certain armies, and was completely implausible against others.  It should be a finesse army, hopefully  a points increase for assault cannons and drop pods will make the terminator heavy drop pod lists a bit less deadly.  Tracked vehicles definitely deserve a break.  I just hope the IG get tossed a friggin bone.  It all seems to come down to which developer is writing the rules. 

The 21st century will have a number of great cities. You’ll choose between cities of great population density and those that are like series of islands in the forest. - Bernard Tschumi 
   
Made in us
Fate-Controlling Farseer





Fort Campbell

Interesting news.

Is it just me, or does it seem like their really trying to nerf the DA's ability to pop AV 14 vehichles?

Full Frontal Nerdity 
   
Made in us
Hooded Inquisitorial Interrogator





It's all become so clear to me. This is Games Potluck's new policy for quality control. Why playtest a codex internally when they have the entire playerbase that will not only do it for free, but will pay thirty dollars for the privledge? We'll just print a codex, see how it flies for a few months and then, when we get around to it, print the real thing.

Codex Space Marines Redux isn't the redux. Codex Space Marines, as we know it now, is Codex Space Marines Beta.

We at Games Workshop would like to thank all of our beta testers during this, our beta phase of Codex Space Marines.

Redstripe Envy: My thoughts as a freelance writer and wargamer. 
   
Made in ca
Deathwing Terminator with Assault Cannon






Never blame on malice what can be blamed on incompetence.
   
Made in eu
Infiltrating Broodlord





Mordheim/Germany

I don't know what you guys think, but these changes seem pretty half-assed to me.
Honestly, things like the Plasma Cannon could have changed a bit better than the usual: "point adjustment" which is often just a swing in the wrong direction. Prime example: Starcannon, sure it was very powerful, but now? Don't see it that viable anymore. Same thing with the Drop pod? Don't know...

Greets
Schepp himself

40k:
Fantasy: Skaven, Vampires  
   
Made in us
Abhorrent Grotesque Aberration





DA have more than enough las-cannons and melta weapons on ravenwing bikes to deal with most AV14 armies.

To me it looks like the design studio is going down a different path. If you notice, almost all the designers that were in on the 40k book and the Space Marine book are now gone.

Once you give a product to the world, they will find ways to break it that you never thought possible.

I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser gate. All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. Time to die. 
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Sentient OverBear






Clearwater, FL

Posted By Toreador on 02/12/2007 10:04 AM
Once you give a product to the world, they will find ways to break it that you never thought possible.

That's why I'd like them to do a little more playtesting out in public first. 

NDA's, people!

DQ:70S++G+++M+B++I+Pw40k94+ID+++A++/sWD178R+++T(I)DM+++

Trust me, no matter what damage they have the potential to do, single-shot weapons always flatter to deceive in 40k.                                                                                                       Rule #1
- BBAP

 
   
Made in us
Abhorrent Grotesque Aberration





That didn't work last time they had NDA's.

I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser gate. All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. Time to die. 
   
Made in us
RogueSangre





The Cockatrice Malediction

Me no likey.  If the DA codex was a sign of things to come then I could understand.  But it makes no sense if only DA are getting these changes.  Did they retcon the fluff to make DA more codex-compliant than Ultramarines?  Is there any reason why scouts are more elite/less available in the DA chapter?  The "flavour" justification is just dumb (What's the "flavour"?  Crap?).  It just seems like differences for the sake of being different.

Games Designer 1: "Ok, we have to give DA their own codex, so how do we make them different?"

Games Designer 2: "Uh... maybe they really like bolt pistols and krak grenades but don't like assault cannons?"

Games Designer 1: "Why?"

Games Designer 2: "Uh... I dunno..."

Games Designer 1: "Just because?  For no good reason?"

Games Designer 2: "Uh... yeah, pretty much..."

Games Designer 1: "Hmmm... I like where this is going..."

Posted By Toreador on 02/12/2007 10:04 AM
Once you give a product to the world, they will find ways to break it that you never thought possible.

They didn't think it was possible for people to take rending 4-shot assault cannons?

   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Orlando, Florida

I know I will not be popular in saying this but, I am kinda upset about these rumors.

So intead of "moving Marines in another direction over time", we are now faced with "same old, same old".

I was excited about Space Marine Redux, honestly, weh in context with the Dark Angels codex because it would have made Marines more like they where in second edition and develop them into a distinct playstyle in regards to the other MEQ armies out there. I was also looking forward to a general balance of the game. Keeping things competitve, but making unit choices much more difficult than Lysanderwings and Godzilla Nids tend to be.

If it was up to me, every codex would have the balance and tough choices that the Eldar Codex has now. You can still build competitve armies, but there isn't one unit in that codex that's completely worthless, people have even found uses for Scorpions and Phonex Lords.

What this smacks of is GW back tracking. They had this great idea to re-intorduce second edition structures into Loyalist Space Marine armies as well as balancing some of the more powerful units. Once they see all the negative attitudes towards the Dark Angels they freak out and "leak" these rumors out.

The sad thing is, if these rumors are true, the people who will really get the shaft is Dark Angels players. (Which I still think is a competitve list, if not obviously so).

Screw it, maybe I will play Dark Angels just to spite them.

Current Armies: Blood Angels, Imperial Guard (40k), Skorne, Retribution (Warmachine), Vampire Counts (Fantasy)

 
   
Made in us
Awesome Autarch






Las Vegas, NV

I for one am very happy about this rumor. If it proves to be true, it will save me a lot of headache and anger.

I spent two years making a highly customized Marine force using traits. if they were to eliminate that people like me would suddenly find their army storm of chaos'd. My investment of money and time would have been laregly wasted due to the whim of the dev team, which would have been really really agrivating.

Beyond my personal gripe with the rumored changes ot the redux, it would be be bad for everyone IMHO. That would mean that all marine armies (of which tere are too many as it) would be even more similar to one another. We would have had less variety in the game. More traits means more flavors of ever popular marines, which i think is a universal plus. No one wants to play DA's of a different color every time SM's show up on board.

I hope that this turns out to be a sound rumor. I think some minor changes should be made, but not on the scale of the DA's.

Also, I compeltely agree with a lot of the other posters, throw the IG a bone. why oh why do i pay 25 points for a las cannon in my IG line squad? It makes no sense, and IG vehciles are horrible when compared to Skimmers and MC's. Yet a Fire prism with only a spirit stone, which will tool a leman russ and do anything it can do nearly as well or better, is more mobile and harder to kill, is cheaper. Go figure.

The poor IG are totally underpowered, tracked vehicles should be cheaper, no question in my mind. But that is an argument for another thread.

   
Made in ca
Drew_Riggio




Vancouver, British Columbia.

So, unless we have not been informed about any other major changes, it appears that the new, optimal marine build will be:

  • 6 man las-plas squads for troops
  • terminators with 2 ACs for elites
  • FOD Librarian in command
  • AC skimmers for fast attack
  • No drop pods

Big changes ahead! Time to rework my lists!

   
Made in fi
Calculating Commissar







Posted By Asmodai on 02/12/2007 7:20 AM
Never blame on malice what can be blamed on incompetence.

I think both have been unmanacled from bonds of sense by now. GW's actions are no longer explicable under any theory of corporate behavior.

The supply does not get to make the demands. 
   
Made in gb
Highlord with a Blackstone Fortress






Adrift within the vortex of my imagination.

The best we get from the information is not so much a promise of what the redux will bring - they have plenty of time to change their minds. Instead we are getting a valuable insight into GW studio 'thinking', if thought is a valid name for the mess.

Ok - SM's are likely to remain the same. Good news.

However the policy of means to encourage plasma. Not such good news. To encourage plasma cannon you up the price on lascannon. sorry that doesnt make plasma any better, it just makes DA tacticals worse. To encourage plasma cannon Gw would have to bypass the get hot rule (if only for DA) and make them cost about as much as a heavy bolter. I would still take missile launchers as preference, and probably would do so if plasma cannon were free.




n'oublie jamais - It appears I now have to highlight this again.

It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. By the juice of the brew my thoughts aquire speed, my mind becomes strained, the strain becomes a warning. It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. 
   
Made in us
Abhorrent Grotesque Aberration





and most of this rumour has already been ripped apart on Warseer too.

I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser gate. All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. Time to die. 
   
Made in us
Foul Dwimmerlaik






Minneapolis, MN

Looks like gav thorpe did make a personal appearance in that thread to set minds either at ease or more tensed depending on which side of the fence it is on.
Posted By GAVT on 02/13/2007 10:06 AM
Posted By Broxus on 02/11/2007 9:03 AM
I just got talking to my long time friend a game developer in the studio about the rumors of the Codex Space Marine Redux. He is very reliable and has no reason to lie to me. I thought I would post a few points of our discussion below.

This is the Games Workshop Design Studio, yes? I think there may have been some form of error made here. We deliberately recruit sociopathic loners with no friends as Games Developers so that they have nobody to whom they can tell their big secrets.

 Also, assuming one of our misanthropic developers should actually manage to find a human being capable of tolerating their presence, it is unlikely they would spin this poor unfortunate such a tissue of falsehoods as presented here, unless willing their unique accomplice to embarass themselves in a public forum.

In short, any 'rumours' about a future Space Marines Codex are speculation of the highest order, sorry you've been misled.

Cheers,
GAV

   
Made in us
Deathwing Terminator with Assault Cannon






To quote:

This is the Games Workshop Design Studio, yes? I think there may have been some form of error made here. We deliberately recruit sociopathic loners with no friends as Games Developers so that they have nobody to whom they can tell their big secrets.

Also, assuming one of our misanthropic developers should actually manage to find a human being capable of tolerating their presence, it is unlikely they would spin this poor unfortunate such a tissue of falsehoods as presented here, unless willing their unique accomplice to embarass themselves in a public forum.

In short, any 'rumours' about a future Space Marines Codex are speculation of the highest order, sorry you've been misled.

Cheers,

GAV


Hopefully this is true. Codex: SM is a fine book, and doesn't need a rewrite.
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Sentient OverBear






Clearwater, FL

And it doesn't need to bump back other codeces either.  (Codexes?).

DQ:70S++G+++M+B++I+Pw40k94+ID+++A++/sWD178R+++T(I)DM+++

Trust me, no matter what damage they have the potential to do, single-shot weapons always flatter to deceive in 40k.                                                                                                       Rule #1
- BBAP

 
   
 
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