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Everyone else has them, so why don't we have them?  Sure, maybe it's acid or something, but why don't nids have anything that uses a flamer template?  Tyranids aren't so good at shooting, so wouldn't it make sense for them to have a weapon that doesn't depend on skill?

So, how do we fix this?  Well, you could introduce a new weapon:

Liquifier  - S: X-1 (max: 5), AP: 3, assault, flame template

It's profile matches something that already exists, namely acid mines, but without the vehicle killing (I blew a Demolisher up with acid mine last night, box cars on the pen roll, no real point to this I'm just bragging).  I'd be willing to raise the AP if I could also raise the S to X (max: 6) or something. 

Or maybe we could take an existing useless weapon and bump it a little.  Say that the deathspitter has two modes of fire: one where the projectile, a fat grub-like creature stuffed with horrible poisonous liquid, is launched at a distant target, and another where the projectile is made to burst as it's leaving the barrel, spraying it payload in a short area immediately in front of the gun.  It would have the same stats as a normal deathspitter shot, but would use a flame template instead. 

So, could the Tyranids use a weapon like this?  I could see small groups of flying warriors using these on marines entrenched in the woods.  Would the change make the deathspitter useful enough to take, even with a bump in cost?  Would any of this be unbalancing? 

I think it would need to be tested.  It could easily be a balance issue.  It gets around one of the nids major weaknesses, and that is normally a no no.  It is a weakness for a reason.  That reason is balance, so take that away and you are breaking the balance.

It is also not fluff wise how Tyranids do things.  If you melt everything then the "food" and "genes" are not as viable.

I do think it could be 0-1 as an option for balance, because tyanids adapt, but I think it should be balanced by giving something up as well.

I've never understood why access points cannot be fired into with flamers, but they can penetrate armor?  Silly to me, in effect you are just burning up the drivers/gunners.  But, I would make is Str 4, or a heavy version is Str 5.

Back in 2nd Ed. Gargoyles used to have Flamespurts that used a flamer template instead of their current weapons. Also, termagants used to have a weapon called the strangleweb that used the old hand-flamer template (a much smaller flamer template, maybe only about 2" long) that could bind models if they failed to pass a strength test. I remember killing a friend's assassin that way once. God, those were the days.

Would be interesting to see some sort of bio-acid-spewing bio-weapon.

they had those acid spore mines that i remember back in the day do they still have them>??

Love it Wok!

But not at AP3, at AP 5 maybe, like a normal flamer.  Probably ought to be a heavy flamer too, at S and AP 4, for TMCs.

?

See, I remember the old gargoyles flamespurts (and 'flying high', gee I wonder where they got that rule...), and I most certainly remember 3rd ed acid spore mines using the flame template, back when they were useful and not complete crap. Thats why I wanted to see something like that again.

The Tyranids dont care how targets are killed, just that they stop fighting. The rippers are going to eat everything on the planet, everything. Even if the acid can hurt the rippers when it first gets fired, it won't be dangerous forever.

I think it should be AP5 too, but I wanted to model on something that already existed. The nids already have lots of light AP weapons, I was kinda hoping for something that could hurt marines. I'd be fine with a S3 AP 3 flamer, but in the interest of balance (read: GW's no one is allowed to hurt space marines policy) AP5 will have to do. I'd like to be able to make it so the S of the weapon is dependent on the S of the wielder, just like all the other weapons. S-1 with a max value or S/2 might work.

if you feel like shelling out some money for a forgeworld model...the scythed hierodule has a strength 5 ap 3 flamer...heh

The rules for the strangleweb (a template weapon) are still up on the GWUK Chapter Approved website, but they are from the last Tyranid codex so they don't mesh very well with the current 'dex (they should really be taken down).

But honestly, Tyranids need a template weapon like they need a hole in the head. Bugs already have a plethora of short ranged Assault weapons that pump out high AP shots. Nearly every enemy models is already getting a regular armor save from these weapons, so what's the difference if the hits are coming from a template or a regular Assault weapon?

More importantly, bugs don't have typical 'special' weapons in their units (besides Tyranid Warriors), and GW has realized that having an entire unit of template weapons just isn't something to aim for in terms of tidy gameplay.

Sure Tyranid Warriors, Carnifexes and Hive Tyrants could all have some sort of template weapon without it hindering the game, but what would it accomplish? Bugs simply don't need another close range weapon. It's like giving Eskimos a refrigerator.


Tyranids need Tyranid Warriors that can be affordably equipped as shooters, or an entirely new bug that is dedicated to shooting (kind of like a Zoanthrope, but not psychic, and is a troops choice). Essentially, you should be able to make a farily decent shooty-themed Tyranid army without taking a Godzilla list, IMO.


Now, if the template weapon was 'fired' across the board like the Hellhound's Inferno cannon. . .now that's something the Tyranids could really use!

True. I was thinking more of having something to fire into woods with, or a decent weapon to give to warriors. I also like the deathspitter thing. It would also be nice to hit something more than 50% of the time.


Also true. But the odds of that happening aren't very good. Tyranids have been moved over to the assaulty side of the equation, and havent been balanced since before 3e. Even with a zilla army, its the volume of high S shots that hurts, not the accuracy or great guns.


A Tyranid version of the Hellhound? Yeah I'd take that in a second. A big carnifex looking bug with a nozzle sticking up out of its back. It could work.

Hmmm...(riffing on wok's image) some sort of biovore/carnifex crossbreed with multiple acid (AP3 flamer) nozzles protruding from its carapace? You choose how many shots you want to roll up - say a certain number of D3s - but the more it shoots the less pressure it can generate (like a leaky water ballon of death) and its range is reduced accordingly - say, roll 1D3 for number of templates and it works like a Hellhound, 24" + template, 2D3 and it's good for 12" plus template and 3D3 and the templates must be placed multiple-barrage style with the thin ends all touching each other and one of the nozzles. (it just relaxes the sphincters of all the nozzles and blasts its low-Ph payload like a broken fire hydrant) If it goes down, it does an Eversor except with an ordnace template as the basic lining of its bio-tanks is breached and acid squirts over anyone unlucky enough to be around, melting flesh and plasteel alike.

This could also be a skaven unit...

Greets
Schepp himself