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Kriswall wrote:

 frozenwastes wrote:

 Mymearan wrote:

What Kriswall said about AoS isn't actually true though. Tzeentch are very powerful, and Stormcast are good, but mixed Chaos and Mixed Destruction are winning tournaments as well, and SCGT, biggest AoS tournament in the world, was won by mixed Chaos. Sylvaneth, Bonesplitterz, Kharadron, Blades of Khorne, the rest of the armies with the new style of Battletome... all good armies but not at the top of any lists really. Mixed lists are very much viable!

This is a very good point. I was just thinking that the first batch of 8th edition 40k tournaments might be one by mixed Imperial armies.

There is also both a growing general positivity and growing numbers in the AoS tournament scene. People who play in large ultra competitive AoS events love it. So I guess the battletome approach is working, even if the top tier armies don't look anything at all like 8th edition fantasy battle armies.

\

So, how many non-mixed, non-new battletome armies are winning tournaments? Because "mixed" is only a thing for Imperium, and to a lesser extent, Chaos and Eldar. Xenos armies generally don't have the option. So... no codex options and no option to mix in other faction units to shore up weak points. Doesn't sound promising. I'd be surprised to see mono-faction Necrons, Tau or Orks placing at the same level as a mixed Chaos or mixed Imperium list. This is BEFORE you buff certain factions with fancy new codex benefits.

I'll wait and see, but I'm not optimistic that 8th edition will have balance that's any better than 7th or AoS.

Clan Skryre and Tomb Kings come to mind.

Seems to be some negativity but I quite like the new Dark Eldar.

I think some will be upset if they owned the hotness (for DE anyway) and nothing else, but if you have a varied collection you should be fine. There are some question marks (Talos are in a weird spot for instance due to fairly weak melee attacks) and I can't say about balance but it doesn't look like instant garbage.

WTF there are countless pics of indexes for Tau, Astartes, Chaos SM, etc... and only a couple of pics of Orks?! I don't get it!

v0iddrgn wrote:
WTF there are countless pics of indexes for Tau, Astartes, Chaos SM, etc... and only a couple of pics of Orks?! I don't get it!

And the pages we did see seem to have had the pictures taken from low orbit, making them unreadable :p.

v0iddrgn wrote:
WTF there are countless pics of indexes for Tau, Astartes, Chaos SM, etc... and only a couple of pics of Orks?! I don't get it!

Enjoy

Sorry folks, but I'm removing the link to pirated content. - Lorek

Check the first post guys, there's the entire set of indexes and rule books linked to a Google Drive site. Everything you need.

 Vryce wrote:
Check the first post guys, there's the entire set of indexes and rule books linked to a Google Drive site. Everything you need.

I'm pretty sure moderators have overlooked it because of the Hype and massive amount of comments but... isn't that basically piracy of copyrighted content?

Question - it says for Deathwatch to use the space marine librarian/captain/chaplain datasheets. But I did not see the part where it said they get special issue ammo? Is that gone from the characters now?

Just wanted to say thank you to Rippy who did/ does an awesome job in updating that thread.

I like the stuff that necrons got.
2w lychguards and preatoriens. Its a shame dispertion shields are 4++ know. Byt you cant have it all. =P

I've definitely not just skimmed all the scans of the new books, but if I did, I would probably think that I am really happy with how 8th edition looks and would be excited to try a few games of it maybe this weekend.

Y'know, if I had the new books....

 Kriswall wrote:

It'll be a huge issue for a lot of players when Codex Death Guard comes out and requires that your entire army have the Death Guard keyword to unlock all the goodies. That's how it works in Age of Sigmar. Battletome Sylvaneth only grants benefits if EVERY unit/Battalion in the army has the Sylvaneth keyword. Include one Elf and your Sylvaneth army defaults to Order and loses all benefits.

So yes, you can put Havocs/Terminators/etc into a "Death Guard" army, but it won't really be a Death Guard faction army and very likely won't be eligible for any of the inevitable Death Guard bonus rules from the inevitable Codex Death Guard.

So when the Dark Angels codex comes out I won't be able to take Swiftclaw Attack Bikes in my Ravenwing army and enjoy the benefits of having a fully Ravenwing detachment, whatever they may be if they even exist? But I wanted to play a full Ravenwing army!

Or for a less hyperbolic example, I already can't take Inceptor squads and have them be buffed by my Ravenwing units, despite them both being fast attack type Astartes units. You would think that Ravenwing would be pretty interested in a mobile heavy weapons platform. My landspeeders cost 5 points more than regular SM speeders for some reason, but I can't just take the vanilla ones and gain any faction specific bonuses from it.

 Yodhrin wrote:
It's really strange to me that you can be such an avowedly accomplished socialite while evidently having so little capacity to imagine situations outside of your own and how they might affect others.

As for an "understanding local community" - lol. I'll take scraping by with pickup games and basic politeness over revealing to people I have an autism spectrum disorder and taking the IME 50/50 gamble that they're not massive gits any day of the week. You seriously don't have any idea how torturous even low-level confrontation can be for some folk, do you. Nor evidently does it intrude on your view that plenty of folk already have friends, even gaming friends, and that they go looking for pickup games because they want to play more games, not make more friends.

More rules and more defined rules is always superior to less rules and less defined rules, because ignoring rules when playing with people you know and who share your particular taste is easier by orders of magnitude than trying to come up with rules on the fly when playing pickup games.

I really don't understand what this is all about. They give rules for every basic terrain type that you're going to commonly see on the vast majority of tables. Then they simply suggest that if you or your opponent somehow comes up with a piece of terrain that isn't considered a hill, building, woods, dangerous woods, craters, barricades, obstacles, statuary, or fuel pipe, you should probably agree on exactly how that crazy ass terrain feature works before you start the game. Should they release a separate book of rules solely for every conceivable terrain feature?

I recognize that codexes are forthcoming that will likely solve this, but I have to say it's a LITTLE whack that the Blood Angels, Dark Angels, Grey Knights, AND Space Wolves, none of whom are in the starter box, got their own psyker tables, while the Thousand Sons, the preeminent psyker army in the whole game, got diddly on that front (although the Dark Hereticus discipline isn't too bad).

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

How did they improve the AoS factions? How did they add new units and stuff? Free downloads, or did you have to buy supplements?

For example the AoS starter box launched the Stormcast with three units and two heroes. None of them had any alternate weapon options. When there battletome was released shortly after they had access to seven more heroes and five more units with expanded options for the three units in the starter box list. The Death guard and Primaris units in the index books are only the starter set lists. They will be expanded with there own codex releases, most likely within a few months.

Brian888 wrote:
I recognize that codexes are forthcoming that will likely solve this, but I have to say it's a LITTLE whack that the Blood Angels, Dark Angels, Grey Knights, AND Space Wolves, none of whom are in the starter box, got their own psyker tables, while the Thousand Sons, the preeminent psyker army in the whole game, got diddly on that front (although the Dark Hereticus discipline isn't too bad).

Yea i'm a little miffed about that, too. Oh well - I'm going to have to smite some fools.

Is it just me or can you not give veterans carapace armor anymore? Or change armor in general like on the Inquisitors.

Well, since we have all the rules I don't think the round-ups from Facebook are going to be all that useful since they're clarifications and coy teasing based on the article of the day.

 JimOnMars wrote:

skarsol wrote:

 JimOnMars wrote:
Why does Magnus the Red standing behind a building get cover, but a lone guardsman doesn't?

Who says they don't? If not in the cover they still get the 50% rule.

Only for non-infantry. Same for woods. If one guardsman of 10 steps out the back side of the woods, the entire unit loses cover from the front.

I agree. The terrain rules for cover are a little wonky.

Daedalus81 wrote:

Brian888 wrote:
I recognize that codexes are forthcoming that will likely solve this, but I have to say it's a LITTLE whack that the Blood Angels, Dark Angels, Grey Knights, AND Space Wolves, none of whom are in the starter box, got their own psyker tables, while the Thousand Sons, the preeminent psyker army in the whole game, got diddly on that front (although the Dark Hereticus discipline isn't too bad).

Yea i'm a little miffed about that, too. Oh well - I'm going to have to smite some fools.

Yep. Sons laugh at the fancy-pants 3+ invulnerable a Space Wolf can get. Eat mortal wounds, wolfie.

 Luciferian wrote:

 Kriswall wrote:

It'll be a huge issue for a lot of players when Codex Death Guard comes out and requires that your entire army have the Death Guard keyword to unlock all the goodies. That's how it works in Age of Sigmar. Battletome Sylvaneth only grants benefits if EVERY unit/Battalion in the army has the Sylvaneth keyword. Include one Elf and your Sylvaneth army defaults to Order and loses all benefits.

So yes, you can put Havocs/Terminators/etc into a "Death Guard" army, but it won't really be a Death Guard faction army and very likely won't be eligible for any of the inevitable Death Guard bonus rules from the inevitable Codex Death Guard.

So when the Dark Angels codex comes out I won't be able to take Swiftclaw Attack Bikes in my Ravenwing army and enjoy the benefits of having a fully Ravenwing detachment, whatever they may be if they even exist? But I wanted to play a full Ravenwing army!

Or for a less hyperbolic example, I already can't take Inceptor squads and have them be buffed by my Ravenwing units, despite them both being fast attack type Astartes units. You would think that Ravenwing would be pretty interested in a mobile heavy weapons platform. My landspeeders cost 5 points more than regular SM speeders for some reason, but I can't just take the vanilla ones and gain any faction specific bonuses from it.

You still seem so very obtuse here.

Let's put it this way.

Death Guard armies have had Chaos Terminators since they technically became a pseudo faction with the 3rd edition Index Astartes article. Hell, someone who wanted to run Mono-Nurgle in second ed would use Terminators then as well.

So tell me, in 2nd and 3rd ed were Swiftclaw Bikers part of the Ravenwing army list variant? Or were they part of a completely different army? Because guess what, Chaos Terminators were part of Death Guard armies at the time.
Were Inceptor squads?

You seem to be struggling to understand that Death Guard players have lost units that they have had since early 3rd edition and in every edition since. And you keep trying to equate it to nonsensical situations (Swiftclaw Bikers) or to a situation that can't even happen yet (Inceptors).

A better situation, to perhaps help you understand is...imagine you are a Ravenwing player. You've always played your niche Ravenwing army since 2nd edition. And in 8th edition, you have no access to any sort of Land Speeder, whatsoever. None. Not a single Land Speeder. Not one.

And you're told.

'Rumour has it you'll get a codex soon. It's a stopgap list.'

You'd be wondering - well, if it's a stopgap list, why the feth doesn't it have the Land Speeder in it then til I get my new book? After all, you have no idea when your new book is going to drop. It could be a week, 2 weeks, a month or 3 months.

'Oh, but we've already seen images of them so it must be soon.'

We saw half these images nearly 3 months ago. That's a bloody strange definition of soon. That's a hell of a time to wait without something that's been a core of your army for the last two decades.

 Stus67 wrote:
Is it just me or can you not give veterans carapace armor anymore? Or change armor in general like on the Inquisitors.

I noticed that on the inquisitor stuff.

i find it odd. and feel bad for anyone converting up some with scion stuff.

 Stus67 wrote:
Is it just me or can you not give veterans carapace armor anymore? Or change armor in general like on the Inquisitors.

Yep. No carapace for IG veterans or characters, no artificer armour for marine captains and no power armour for inquisitors (probably rendering most inquisitor models people have unusable.)

 Crimson wrote:

 Stus67 wrote:
Is it just me or can you not give veterans carapace armor anymore? Or change armor in general like on the Inquisitors.

Yep. No carapace for IG veterans or characters, no artificer armour for marine captains and no power armour for inquisitors (probably rendering most inquisitor models people have unusable.)

You know... you can run them as Inquisitors without power armour... I don't think anybody will have a problem. WYSIWYG is a problem when it can confuse people because theres more options than one. If Power Armour isn't a option, it shoudln't be a problem with your model.

If and when we get it back, the Seer's Bane on an Exalted Sorcerer is going to be brutal given the generally-reduced LD scores in 8th.

Daedalus81 wrote:

 DarkStarSabre wrote:

You might want to look at this picture.

It lists what units can have Death Guard as their Legion key word. Notice that Chosen, Chaos Terminators and Havocs are not there. Nor are Warpsmiths, Obliterators, Mutilators, Forgefiends, Maulerfiends, Raptors, Bikes, Heldrakes.....

Yep. They listed the currently available models that fit the Death Guard army. Terminators are already known to be coming. Why would they give you old termies and then take them away to add new ones?

Sorry to say that if you want bikes and other crap - you're not playing Death Guard. That's not what Death Guard is. Look at Thousand Sons. I don't get everything either.

Ah. Let's see.

Chosen = Veterans. Are Veterans appropriate to Death Guard? Yes, yes they are. They're the closest we have to a bodyguard unit.

Terminators - 'Oh, you're getting new Terminators, why would they give you the current ones? Not like Death Guard Terminators have ever existed before.' Huh.

Havocs - Oh Havocs aren't Death Guard. They've NEVER released Death Guard Havocs. EVER. Not once.



Not once y'hear?!


And you must be right. After all Your Thousand Sons got nothing right? Nothing but the Thousand Son kits, right?

Wait, what's that? Forgefiends, Maulerfiends, Heldrakes, Vindicators.....? Hmmm.

But wait, there's more.

There's people who love to claim such fantastical things in this thread.

'Death Guard never had Havocs in third edition.'

'It was one of those units not allowed to have a Mark of Nurgle in the 3.5 Codex.'

And remember, Chaos Terminators have never featured prominently in any sort of Death Guard army. Terminators were never one of their focuses.

 Galas wrote:

 Crimson wrote:

 Stus67 wrote:
Is it just me or can you not give veterans carapace armor anymore? Or change armor in general like on the Inquisitors.

Yep. No carapace for IG veterans or characters, no artificer armour for marine captains and no power armour for inquisitors (probably rendering most inquisitor models people have unusable.)

You know... you can run them as Inquisitors without power armour... I don't think anybody will have a problem. WYSIWYG is a problem when it can confuse people because theres more options than one. If Power Armour isn't a option, it shoudln't be a problem with your model.

What being reasonable? no way

in seriousness that does kinda suck and it seems like inquisitor got gutted pretty hard in the options department.

 Crimson wrote:

 Stus67 wrote:
Is it just me or can you not give veterans carapace armor anymore? Or change armor in general like on the Inquisitors.

Yep. No carapace for IG veterans or characters, no artificer armour for marine captains and no power armour for inquisitors (probably rendering most inquisitor models people have unusable.)

gak IG veterans got a huge nerf, no special rules anymore on them and they can't take carapace. I have to ask didn't GW PR dude say they would not remove rules for models already in the game, but my IG the Vendetta, priest and platoon command squads have been removed.

SoB are missing their points roster in the 'full' index leak. Anypne have those pages?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

zalak wrote:

 Crimson wrote:

 Stus67 wrote:
Is it just me or can you not give veterans carapace armor anymore? Or change armor in general like on the Inquisitors.

Yep. No carapace for IG veterans or characters, no artificer armour for marine captains and no power armour for inquisitors (probably rendering most inquisitor models people have unusable.)

gak IG veterans got a huge nerf, no special rules anymore on them and they can't take carapace. I have to ask didn't GW PR dude say they would not remove rules for models already in the game, but my IG the Vendetta, priest and platoon command squads have been removed.

Priest is in the SoB list and buffs both.

zalak wrote:

 Crimson wrote:

 Stus67 wrote:
Is it just me or can you not give veterans carapace armor anymore? Or change armor in general like on the Inquisitors.

Yep. No carapace for IG veterans or characters, no artificer armour for marine captains and no power armour for inquisitors (probably rendering most inquisitor models people have unusable.)

gak IG veterans got a huge nerf, no special rules anymore on them and they can't take carapace. I have to ask didn't GW PR dude say they would not remove rules for models already in the game, but my IG the Vendetta, priest and platoon command squads have been removed.

Vendetta is a FW kit, Platoon commander squads i think were split up, Priests i have no idea, and Carapace has no actual model. besides scions i think.

 DarkStarSabre wrote:

Daedalus81 wrote:

 DarkStarSabre wrote:

You might want to look at this picture.

It lists what units can have Death Guard as their Legion key word. Notice that Chosen, Chaos Terminators and Havocs are not there. Nor are Warpsmiths, Obliterators, Mutilators, Forgefiends, Maulerfiends, Raptors, Bikes, Heldrakes.....

Yep. They listed the currently available models that fit the Death Guard army. Terminators are already known to be coming. Why would they give you old termies and then take them away to add new ones?

Sorry to say that if you want bikes and other crap - you're not playing Death Guard. That's not what Death Guard is. Look at Thousand Sons. I don't get everything either.

Ah. Let's see.

Chosen = Veterans. Are Veterans appropriate to Death Guard? Yes, yes they are. They're the closest we have to a bodyguard unit.

Terminators - 'Oh, you're getting new Terminators, why would they give you the current ones? Not like Death Guard Terminators have ever existed before.' Huh.

Havocs - Oh Havocs aren't Death Guard. They've NEVER released Death Guard Havocs. EVER. Not once.



Not once y'hear?!


And you must be right. After all Your Thousand Sons got nothing right? Nothing but the Thousand Son kits, right?

Wait, what's that? Forgefiends, Maulerfiends, Heldrakes, Vindicators.....? Hmmm.

But wait, there's more.

There's people who love to claim such fantastical things in this thread.

'Death Guard never had Havocs in third edition.'

'It was one of those units not allowed to have a Mark of Nurgle in the 3.5 Codex.'

And remember, Chaos Terminators have never featured prominently in any sort of Death Guard army. Terminators were never one of their focuses.

You can always just be patient and wait for the rest of the Death Guard stuff we know is coming.