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Is there any use for a large unit of warriors with a close combat setup to be slingshotted by the swarmlord or are genestealers really that much better?

I would love to try a large unit of warriors, but can't really seem to find a good use for them.

Well...the Stealers are likely better. But, the Warriors have Synapse, and can be a good deal shootier. I think you can use a Warrior strike team, but Nids should never work alone. So Trygon in one unit, Hive Commander in another...thats three threats, maybe Lictor or Mawloc....and you can do some damage.

Anyone used the red terror at all? Seems like a fun model but I'm not sure if its actually good

3 or 4 pages back where Raveners where discussed one person ran ravaners, and the red terror. Mind you he filled out the whole big detachement at 2000 points. Red terror and some lictors filled out the elite slot.

He seems good. Extra attacks from the weapons, hits on 2+, re-rolls 1. Characters so he can't be targeted easaly. He has deep strike.Synergi with ravaners.

Prox and try him out.

Any thoughts on how to fill the last 180 some odd points

Any news on the competitive ? We actualy run full geno in the tournament or new tactics are coming out ? And the mixed list of AM, GSC are still seems the meta ?
Is about one month i don't reed any forum or news about tournament so i' m not very knowledgeable

CDShaddock wrote:
Any thoughts on how to fill the last 180 some odd points

5 Biovores ?

Tyrannocyte, and a passenger?

2 Malanthropes.

30 gaunts

30 gargoyles?

It really needs context. Is your list say 500 points?

Nasty wrote:
Any news on the competitive ? We actualy run full geno in the tournament or new tactics are coming out ? And the mixed list of AM, GSC are still seems the meta ?
Is about one month i don't reed any forum or news about tournament so i' m not very knowledgeable

Thats because it's to early to tell. Tournaments and GW's FAQ are shifting in all kinds of directions and Tyranid armies in a competitive setting cannot deal with (AM) shooting. A Tyranid army could do well if it picks a specific strategy and get's the right opponents and a couple of 'first turns'. But it will be a 'one trick pony' list nonetheless. And winning a minor victory is not enough to become a tournament winner. For that you need to wipe the enemy of the board. A full genestealer assault army could pull this of but then you are better of with GSC.

Many Tyranid players ask on this topic;

I got a hive tyrant, few carnifexes, a few zoanthropes and a bunch of termagaunts and hormagaunts. I lose a lot with them, what should I do?

Buy another army or totally revamp your tyranids with big purchases if you want to win a few games. Nothing else to say. Doesn't matter what weapons layout you give your hive tyrant. It will get shot to pieces anyway.

shogun wrote:

Nasty wrote:
Any news on the competitive ? We actualy run full geno in the tournament or new tactics are coming out ? And the mixed list of AM, GSC are still seems the meta ?
Is about one month i don't reed any forum or news about tournament so i' m not very knowledgeable

Thats because it's to early to tell. Tournaments and GW's FAQ are shifting in all kinds of directions and Tyranid armies in a competitive setting cannot deal with (AM) shooting. A Tyranid army could do well if it picks a specific strategy and get's the right opponents and a couple of 'first turns'. But it will be a 'one trick pony' list nonetheless. And winning a minor victory is not enough to become a tournament winner. For that you need to wipe the enemy of the board. A full genestealer assault army could pull this of but then you are better of with GSC.

Many Tyranid players ask on this topic;

I got a hive tyrant, few carnifexes, a few zoanthropes and a bunch of termagaunts and hormagaunts. I lose a lot with them, what should I do?

Buy another army or totally revamp your tyranids with big purchases if you want to win a few games. Nothing else to say. Doesn't matter what weapons layout you give your hive tyrant. It will get shot to pieces anyway.

So you are saying not much has changed? Our stuff is better, has better internal balance but when it comes to external balance fairs poorly unless heavily skewed?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Niiai wrote:
2 Malanthropes.

30 gaunts

30 gargoyles?

It really needs context. Is your list say 500 points?

Sorry my 1800 point core was on the previous page.

A lot has changed.
We are now a solid mid tier army which competes with 90% of the factions out there without having to resort to unfluffy lists.

Not being on the top (8th) is not the same as being at the bottom (7th).

Yeah, I agree. I think our only unbreakable barrier is Top table for Tourneys, we don't have any "broken" units to spam. But AM is the only foe that is fearsome, as they have so many tools that flat out counter us. One thing that can work is holding off you strike till turn 2, or 3. That way you can let your foe move, and hopefully make an error you can use. Otherwise the best leveler is, as always, play maelstrom. I really think Tourneys need to embrace this, as almost all the gimmick lists falter in maestrom. Even 7Th might have been less one sided with that "fix".

I have a 1500 pt tournament in October coming up so trying to bring together a competitive bug list to compete for top table. Last month in the same area the tournament was won by a very shooty dark eldar list (another similar list got 2nd and guard got third). So lots of firepower will I be facing. I have lots of models to choose from. What would people run to combat very shooty lists?

Well...you can think "Counter shooty" and look at blocks of Devilgants, with meatshields, Tervigons to replenish. Or go contra shooty and build around putting lots of fangs into contact. Hive guard with Impalers, and Biovores are likely going to be your friend either way, because they offer non LOS shooting.

If you go Counter shooty I think a Malanthrope or two will be very useful, or Venos if you don't have any handy.

So consider something like this; Drop a Tyrannocyte full of Devilgaunts, stranglers on the pod, Hive comander up annother unit, run up a Tervigon and Catalist just try to win a war of attrition, Use Biovore/Hive guard to disrupt the backfield, then use your manuver units to strike the key points (that is determined by mission)

You could also Tunnel in your shooters but a Trygon is less shooty, though Much choppier

Good luck, and good hunting!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
If you want to go "Contra shooty" then I suggest a Trygon, with x30 Hormagaunts One, because your foe "knows" it will be Stealers, and the gaunts are cheaper. if you can fit two of those in most shootys will drown in fangs. and the extra agility come in handy. You can Hive Command a unit up as well, for good threat saturation.....


Automatically Appended Next Post:
So if you build around...Trygon, Adrenals, x2 and Hormagaunt Brood x30, x2 and a Swrmlord thats...958 or so? So 542 for support units? (Malanthrope, and some Hive guard, maybe Stealers?)

CDShaddock wrote:

shogun wrote:

Nasty wrote:
Any news on the competitive ? We actualy run full geno in the tournament or new tactics are coming out ? And the mixed list of AM, GSC are still seems the meta ?
Is about one month i don't reed any forum or news about tournament so i' m not very knowledgeable

Thats because it's to early to tell. Tournaments and GW's FAQ are shifting in all kinds of directions and Tyranid armies in a competitive setting cannot deal with (AM) shooting. A Tyranid army could do well if it picks a specific strategy and get's the right opponents and a couple of 'first turns'. But it will be a 'one trick pony' list nonetheless. And winning a minor victory is not enough to become a tournament winner. For that you need to wipe the enemy of the board. A full genestealer assault army could pull this of but then you are better of with GSC.

Many Tyranid players ask on this topic;

I got a hive tyrant, few carnifexes, a few zoanthropes and a bunch of termagaunts and hormagaunts. I lose a lot with them, what should I do?

Buy another army or totally revamp your tyranids with big purchases if you want to win a few games. Nothing else to say. Doesn't matter what weapons layout you give your hive tyrant. It will get shot to pieces anyway.

So you are saying not much has changed? Our stuff is better, has better internal balance but when it comes to external balance fairs poorly unless heavily skewed?

Regular casual games? Their good and fun to play with because it is always a battle with up's and downs, depending on the enemies army. But now with 8th edition stuff dies faster and every unit can put wounds on everything. Tyranids can win a lot of casual games simply with mid-field control and objective grabbing. Losing most of the army isn't a big deal if you win a minor victory in the end. But in a tournament you cannot get away with this and you need the tools to remove an enemy army of the table.

I made a last minute decision to attend a local GT this weekend. I threw together a list using the models that I had painted, which was mostly left overs from last edition. I have had maybe 15 games this edition, none of which were in a particular competitive setting. My list is locked in, but I would like thoughts on strategy/tactics, matchups, and anything that I'll need to keep in mind for the event.

List:

Tyranid Battalion
Swarmlord
Broodlord
Tyrant Guard x 3
Venomthrope x 3
Termagaunt x 14 (fleshborer)
Termagaunt x 14 (fleshborer)
Genestealer x 20 (rending claws)

Tyranid Supreme Command Detachment
Hive Tyrant with Wings (Rending Claws, 2x Deathspitter, adrenal glands) x 5

Plan is simple and aggressive. Tyrants push up, try and shoot/smite down threats, go for turn 1/2 charges. Swarmy and the 'stealers follow, look to hit turn 2/3. Venoms + FNP help the 'stealers stay alive, Tyrant Guard help keep swarmy alive. 'gaunts either sit on or walk to objectives.

How many command points do you get at around 1850 or 2000 points?

I think it will be a hard job to get more then 4 points with expensive units in the HQ. A swamlord and a big model like a tervigon, tyranofex or exochrine makes it very hard to get more then 4 command points.

Please comment your exeperiences.

The malanthrope and broodlord are both well priced hqs for what you get. 1 of each gets you the HQ requirement for a batallion and our troops are decent (devilgaunts, rippers, genestealers). This gives you 6 cp (3 for being battleforged) for 350-1000 points depending on the troop choices

Yeah I meant you usualy only get two detachements. One battalion, and one detcahment with fast attack, elite or heavy support.

Looking for another board drop to fill in my last 140 points or so. Army is geared for either threat overload or for flexible use of multiple deepstrike style mobs.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

CDShaddock wrote:
Here is my core looking to fill out the last few points with suggestions. My meta is game shop only mix of everything but very few HC spammy lists.


++ Battalion Detachment +3CP (Tyranids) [96 PL, 1818pts] ++

+ HQ +

Broodlord [8 PL, 162pts]: Power: The Horror

The Swarmlord [15 PL, 300pts]: Power: Catalyst, Power: Onslaught

+ Troops +

Genestealers [16 PL, 240pts]
. 20x Genestealer: 20x Rending Claws

Hormagaunts [9 PL, 150pts]: 30x Hormagaunt

Termagants [9 PL, 120pts]: 30x Termagant (Fleshborer)

+ Elites +

Venomthropes [4 PL, 93pts]
. 3x Venomthrope: 3x Toxic Lashes

+ Fast Attack +

Raveners [8 PL, 156pts]
. Ravener: 2x Scything Talons, Spinefists
. Ravener: 2x Scything Talons, Spinefists
. Ravener: 2x Scything Talons, Spinefists
. Ravener: 2x Scything Talons, Spinefists
. Ravener: 2x Scything Talons, Spinefists
. Ravener: 2x Scything Talons, Spinefists

+ Heavy Support +

Mawloc [5 PL, 105pts]: Prehensile Pincer Tail

Mawloc [5 PL, 105pts]: Prehensile Pincer Tail

Trygon Prime [10 PL, 214pts]: Bio-electric Pulse with Containment Spines, Biostatic Rattle, 3x Massive Scything Talons

+ Dedicated Transport +

Tyrannocyte [7 PL, 173pts]: 5x Barbed Strangler

++ Total: [96 PL, 1818pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe

CDShaddock wrote:
Looking for another board drop to fill in my last 140 points or so. Army is geared for either threat overload or for flexible use of multiple deepstrike style mobs.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

CDShaddock wrote:
Here is my core looking to fill out the last few points with suggestions. My meta is game shop only mix of everything but very few HC spammy lists.


++ Battalion Detachment +3CP (Tyranids) [96 PL, 1818pts] ++

+ HQ +

Broodlord [8 PL, 162pts]: Power: The Horror

The Swarmlord [15 PL, 300pts]: Power: Catalyst, Power: Onslaught

+ Troops +

Genestealers [16 PL, 240pts]
. 20x Genestealer: 20x Rending Claws

Hormagaunts [9 PL, 150pts]: 30x Hormagaunt

Termagants [9 PL, 120pts]: 30x Termagant (Fleshborer)

+ Elites +

Venomthropes [4 PL, 93pts]
. 3x Venomthrope: 3x Toxic Lashes

+ Fast Attack +

Raveners [8 PL, 156pts]
. Ravener: 2x Scything Talons, Spinefists
. Ravener: 2x Scything Talons, Spinefists
. Ravener: 2x Scything Talons, Spinefists
. Ravener: 2x Scything Talons, Spinefists
. Ravener: 2x Scything Talons, Spinefists
. Ravener: 2x Scything Talons, Spinefists

+ Heavy Support +

Mawloc [5 PL, 105pts]: Prehensile Pincer Tail

Mawloc [5 PL, 105pts]: Prehensile Pincer Tail

Trygon Prime [10 PL, 214pts]: Bio-electric Pulse with Containment Spines, Biostatic Rattle, 3x Massive Scything Talons

+ Dedicated Transport +

Tyrannocyte [7 PL, 173pts]: 5x Barbed Strangler

++ Total: [96 PL, 1818pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe

That swarnlord looks like a big bulls eye. I would try to get some Tyrant Guards to effectivly 'buy more wounds' on him.

He spends the first turn riding in a pod to avoid alphas and make a grand entrance. He is mostly an "I Kill that or those, bump a unit up for threat overload and then soak an entire army's fire target. If he makes it to turn 3 then the game is heavily in my favor. I use the broodlord as the warlord.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
The tyrant guard would be worth looking at if they had more than 2 base attacks.

My goal is to have no less than 3 command points per 500 pts of a game. So, 3 for a 500 pt game (but 6 if I can), 6 at 1000, 9 at 1500, and 12 at 2000 ... not gone bigger than 2K in years, but the same rate would apply.

I figure I'll add 3-6 more when the codex for my forces drop.

To get 3 command points you need 3 troops and 2 hq. That sounds like a lot of small and bad units.

Nids are really spoiled when it comes to troops. We have 5 choices for troops! And they all range from good to very good!

The problem in obtaining CPs come with the HQs, we lack cheap versions, even more so if you refuse to use forgeworld like i do.

That said, we fill elite ( 45 points) and fast attack slots (20 points) like champs, so brigade detachments are definitely an option.

Don't forget we have access to genestealer cult hqs. Iconwards are dirt cheap at 53 points, and spending 23 more gets you a magus that can use the amazing GSC psyker powers

Take the Brigade. Tyranids have cheap choices in each catergory.

HQ 3 Hive Tyrants (okay, not the cheapest choice, but good)
Troop 3 Ripper Swarms + 3 Termagants
Elite 3 Lictors
FA 3 Mucloids
Hvy 3 Biovores
9 CP

Without a codex and nifty things to spend CP on, 12 is a lot.

pinecone77 wrote:
Yeah, I agree. I think our only unbreakable barrier is Top table for Tourneys, we don't have any "broken" units to spam. But AM is the only foe that is fearsome, as they have so many tools that flat out counter us. One thing that can work is holding off you strike till turn 2, or 3. That way you can let your foe move, and hopefully make an error you can use. Otherwise the best leveler is, as always, play maelstrom. I really think Tourneys need to embrace this, as almost all the gimmick lists falter in maestrom. Even 7Th might have been less one sided with that "fix".

TBH maelstrom won't change much about an AM gun line army. Most tournaments (NOVA, for example) use maelstrom objectives as a secondary or even primary on some missions with eternal war as the secondary. It's true the Tyranids have the tools to deal with more than 90% of the lists and armies out there. It's also true that we can't beat an AM gun line that is kitted out to go win a GT (and they do have lists that have the capability to do so). Even if we try to become them by allying in their very tanks, I don't think that a Tyranid/GSC force has a place with that kind of list. It was close when the GSC stealers had their pricing error and were 10ppm, but not at 15. (All of this is "I'm trying to win a GT" level of competition though).

Outside of that AM gunline, though, I do feel that we match up well against almost any other army. Upper mid tier is definitely where we are right now. And we have the ability to do so many more builds and units than we used to. It's amazing.

 adamsouza wrote:
Take the Brigade. Tyranids have cheap choices in each catergory.

HQ 3 Hive Tyrants (okay, not the cheapest choice, but good)
Troop 3 Ripper Swarms + 3 Termagants
Elite 3 Lictors
FA 3 Mucloids
Hvy 3 Biovores
9 CP

Without a codex and nifty things to spend CP on, 12 is a lot.

Well I see the basic framework. I have no Mucloids, but I have spore mines. I doubt the deep strike tactic will work with them, but they can be used to deny DS near your big stuff.

I can paint up my lictors and ripper swarms. :-)