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Made in us
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain






A Protoss colony world


Much needed, but I'm still not sure it makes them any better than Jump Pack Wolf Guard. They are still limited by terrain; on some tables they can really put in the work, but on tables that have those L-shaped pieces that are all the rage these days they are going to struggle. I will admit I've been trying to figure out a way to make them work though; they are an iconic unit and really deserve to see some play.

Wulfen came down 2 points as well. All I can say is, meh. They're still pretty bad.

My armies (re-counted and updated on 11/1/23, including modeled wargear options):
Dark Angels: ~15000 Astra Militarum: ~1200 | Adeptus Custodes: ~1900 | Imperial Knights: ~2000 | Sisters of Battle: ~3500 | Leagues of Votann: ~1200 | Tyranids: ~2600 | Stormcast Eternals: ~5000
Check out my P&M Blogs: ZergSmasher's P&M Blog | Imperial Knights blog | Board Games blog | Total models painted in 2023: 40 | Total models painted in 2024: 7 | Current main painting project: Dark Angels
 Mr_Rose wrote:
Who doesn’t love crazy mutant squawk-puppies? Eh? Nobody, that’s who.
 
   
Made in it
Waaagh! Ork Warboss




Italy

I already play TWC so yeah, I'll take that. Wulfen sometimes too.

Honestly with these changes I'd probably save like 25 points on a 2000 points list. Not enough to add any other unit but enough to optimize some units' loadouts maybe, like a few extra weapons here and there.

 
   
Made in no
Liche Priest Hierophant





Bergen

Well you might get 25 point increases elsewhere as well. We will have to wait and see.

With the points going down 3 with lightnclaw and stormshield are only 150. 135 if you run them with chainsword. That can be a fun distraction units. They have 19 attacks when they fight (wolf atacks included.) Not amazing, but cute.

These days I have put most of my SW asside for a smal break. Tyraids crusher stampede and the new GSC codex are currently on my sights. It is overwhelming!

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/01/21 14:29:15


   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





 Niiai wrote:
How are you people finding phobos units? I like that they start up on the board, witch is where I want my troops to be. The fact that they are ready for action early on is good.

Incursors is where the money is. Small dagger for more AP. 'only' 21 points

Infiltrators lack the dagger and are more expensive. But if you want to go all in on buffing shooting they seems better. The gun can deal mortal wounds. The deep strike deny is cute.

Many lists take deepstriking, outflanking or drop pods. Having some close backup can be good. The psyker is quite descent if you take SW powers.



Saw a chap on goonhammer had a cool strat with phobos and phobos libby.

infilsx2 plibby and 2-3elims. he would have 1x infil and 1x elim and libby placed up the board on an obj, have the infils infront and shroud the elims so they could plink away and not be targeted. the others could be placed back as needed and he was picking off chars with the elims every game he was saying.
   
Made in us
Been Around the Block




So if our Jump Pack Wolf Guard with Lightning Claw and Storm Shield are going to the same points ( cost as Vanguard Veterans with the same loadout... why do we suddenly have an inferior unit with no advantage?
WGJP have -1 leadership (8 vs 9) and loses Melta Bombs and Combat Squads keywords compared to VV. And VV can put a relic blade on their sergeant and have a wider selection of pistols. Not that we care too much about pistols, but options.
These are all minor drawbacks, granted, but it feels bad to not be compensated for them.
   
Made in us
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain






A Protoss colony world

Our Dread-heavy lists took a bit of a knock too, as Redemptors went up by 10 and VolCons went up by 20 (each weapon arm went up 10). Wulfen weapons apparently got cheaper, in addition to the base unit cost coming down, so that's...something, I guess. Most of the general Marine tank discounts won't affect SW much; ditto for the drop on DevCents (which I believe we can technically take, lol). I can't see Wulfen and ThunderCav becoming a new meta or anything though; those units probably need rules changes to become better. ThunderCav get screwed hard by some terrain layouts, as I mentioned in an earlier post, and Wulfen are not Core and can't do actions. Damn shame, because I love ThunderCav and although I'm probably in the minority I actually like the Wulfen models too.

My armies (re-counted and updated on 11/1/23, including modeled wargear options):
Dark Angels: ~15000 Astra Militarum: ~1200 | Adeptus Custodes: ~1900 | Imperial Knights: ~2000 | Sisters of Battle: ~3500 | Leagues of Votann: ~1200 | Tyranids: ~2600 | Stormcast Eternals: ~5000
Check out my P&M Blogs: ZergSmasher's P&M Blog | Imperial Knights blog | Board Games blog | Total models painted in 2023: 40 | Total models painted in 2024: 7 | Current main painting project: Dark Angels
 Mr_Rose wrote:
Who doesn’t love crazy mutant squawk-puppies? Eh? Nobody, that’s who.
 
   
Made in us
Ragin' Ork Dreadnought




New to the 9th Wolves here, so this has probably been discussed many times before, but:
It seems like a Wolf Lord on a Thunderwolf with Wulfen, The Imperium's Sword, and the Teeth of Terra makes for an incredibly effective meat grinder. I can't see the Black Death ever being more useful than the Teeth of Terra - You'll already be at S6, so bumping to S7 doesn't help against most targets you'll want to fight anyways, and D2 *is* extremely useful against many targets you'll want to fight - plus I'd rather have a consistent 3 than an inconsistent d6.
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut





United Kingdom

I've had a few games with my wolves now and to date, i'm not doing great with them.

Most 1k lists roughly consist of

HQ: Captain with armour of russ and T Hammer

TROOPS: Two units of grey hunters with chainswords.

TRANSPORT: Razorback with lascannon - have also used assault cannon previously

ELITES: Ven Dread or Murderfang

FAST: 3 Thunderwolf cavalry with shields/chainsword. Leader with Powerfist.

1-2 Cyber wolves

HEAVY: 3 Eradicators.


Any advice for how to use the above or what you would change are welcomed.


Adeptus Mechanicus
Tyranids  
   
Made in us
Been Around the Block




 Crafter91 wrote:
I've had a few games with my wolves now and to date, i'm not doing great with them.

Most 1k lists roughly consist of

HQ: Captain with armour of russ and T Hammer

TROOPS: Two units of grey hunters with chainswords.

TRANSPORT: Razorback with lascannon - have also used assault cannon previously

ELITES: Ven Dread or Murderfang

FAST: 3 Thunderwolf cavalry with shields/chainsword. Leader with Powerfist.

1-2 Cyber wolves

HEAVY: 3 Eradicators.


Any advice for how to use the above or what you would change are welcomed.

I'd consider dropping the Razorback and one of the squads of Grey Hunters for some faster infantry. Transports don't seem too worth the points right now. With a Patrol, you only 'need' to take 1 Troop. Personally, I prefer Incursors over almost any other troop right now.

Either Skyclaws or Wolf Guard with Jump Packs for the one of the Grey Hunters (and Cyberwolves), and for 125 points for the Razorback you can get a Wulfen Dread with Axe/Claw & Shield, and maybe enough points for Heavy Flamer(s) since a 5+ BS means the Storm Bolters are worth... little. Cyberwolves took a hit the recent CA2022, as they can't do some of the secondaries now (ie, need 5 models).
Skyclaws are cheap, though Wolf Guard with Jump Packs, Lightning Claws and Storm Shields are more point efficient.
Lightning Claws are twice as good as Chainswords vs Marine equivalents, so if you can upgrade the Thunderwolf Cavalry in general it's worth it.
Personally, I like Wolf Lord on Thunderwolf with Teeth of Terra, Imperiums Sword and Wolfkin for the "omg how many attacks?!?", but then you would need to move Armor of Russ to someone else (like a Primaris Techmarine also with Warrior Born babysitting the Dreads, heroic intervening and letting himself and a Dread go before the charging unit).
It seems like you were about a 100-150 points short, did you miss a unit or character?
   
Made in us
Steadfast Grey Hunter






With Armor of Contempt SM as a whole got a buff. I'm thinking about a dreadnought list with Bjorn, Murderfang, 3 - 4 Vendreads or Wulfen dreads with Axe/Blizzard shields. Escorted by a Libby to hand out -1 to hit. It might not be competitive but i've got most of the models already!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I'm also thinking about Blade guard vs WG/JP vs Terminators now.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/04/19 22:15:04


Primaris fanboy: "NO, you can't just give old marines 2W, they're supposed to be squatted!" GW: "Heavy Bolters go brrrrrrrr"
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

If the argument for their uniqueness is spamming Wulfen and Thunderwolves, then it wasn't really a unique army to begin with whether you like it or not.
nervous sweating
Regal Hunt, A custom space wolf army: https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/774993.page#10435681 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran





Lebanon NH

Hey folks, not sure if this is the right place for the question but:

Does anyone know any cheaper ways to get ahold of both Fenrisian Wolves and Cyber Wolves? (Proxies, alternatives, etc)

I would love to use some in my Wolf army but GW's prices are simply insane. Any ideas?
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran





Lebanon NH

Also, unrelated question:

I've always used a custom-chapter with Born-Heroes and Whirlwind of Rage, but recently I've been thinking of switching over to Bone-Heroes and Tactical Withdrawl. My reasoning is that the extra exploding six is nice, but being able to consistently get a charge in almost any ongoing combat might be more useful overall.

Thoughts?
   
Made in us
Been Around the Block




Whirlwind of Rage is worth probably 1.5-2x Born Heroes.

Compare them both to the first part of Hunters Unleashed. +1 to hit while charging/being charged/heroic intervention.

Born Heroes is +1 to hit while charging, so half(?) the worth of Hunters Unleashed. Based on what percentage of fights you have that you are charged or you HI into and not charging yourself. You would have to never be charged or use HI for it to be equal to Hunters Unleashed, or somehow get a large number of additional charges that Hunters Unleashed doesn't.

Whirlwind of Rage, exploding 6s are mathematically the same as +1 to hit (if the +1 to hit wouldn't be wasted). Whirlwind has the same triggers as Hunters Unleashed, so mathematically equivalent.

For the proof that exploding 6s are the same as +1 to hit, consider the number of hits on average. 6 attacks at 3+ is 4 hits (just assume you rolled 1 of each number). A +1 to hit means hitting on 2s, so 5 hits. An extra hit on a 6 means you still hit on 3s, but you also have 5 hits on average because you count the 6 twice.

As for Tactical Withdrawal... yeah, I suppose that could get you some additional charges, but I don't think it'll be enough to get you over Whirlwind of Rage. If Tactical Withdrawal allowed shooting as well... that could be interesting. Especially if you are running more Terminators or combi- on the Wolf Guard. Some people have been floating Stealthy as an option too. Doubling down with AoC against ranged.
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut





United Kingdom

Continuing on from the thread above, quick Successor Tactics poll...

Generally speaking it's almost an auto take (for most) to pick Whirlwind of Rage for their first tactic, but the second is often left open for debate.

I quite like Tactical Withdrawal as I tend to run two units of TWC which are entirely melee focussed. I often find they almost kill something in combat and then waste the next phase finishing them off when they could be off fighting something else while other units shoot the last remaining minis off the board.

What do others tend to run and why?

Adeptus Mechanicus
Tyranids  
   
Made in no
Liche Priest Hierophant





Bergen

I only play cassually.

I do dreadnought spam. Redemtor plasma, and wulfen dreadnought with axe and shield. I see a good argument for double flamer wulfen as well. But the 10 point was a dealbreaker for me.

I often sprinkle in wolf guards on jump packs. Or other things. I sometime do terminator castle, but it is very rough on my ork opponent so I have stoped doing it. I also take other venerabke dreandoughts for fun.

I tend to keep troops to a minimum, or very small. Troops are great util you loose 20 a turn to some damage 2 gun.

I also run some thunderwolves. But they used to be bad. Perhaps the new rules (cheaper) and the armour of contempt could make them more fun,

I am currently working on a knight to ally in. I expect it to not be very strong.

   
Made in us
Been Around the Block




As far as allying in a Knight, I think 1-3 Armiger Warblades are interesting... but I feel like Wulfen Dreadnoughts fit that role better.
Yes, the Armiger has more wounds, but that just means it degrades. Wulfen Dread has Duty Eternal and more importantly, 4+ Invulnerable. Armiger is faster (which is actually a good selling point), and has more anti-tank weapons (melta and thermal lance vs 1-2 heavy flamers). But slightly more expensive even if you go double flamer (150 with Warglaive with Melta).

Reaper Chain-cleaver is roughly the same as the Fenrisian Greataxe as well. Sweep and Scythe are exactly the same at S6 AP-3 D1 double attacks (though the Wulfen gets Shock Assault). Strike and Cleave are not quite the same but close. Both S10, AP-3 but D3+3 and -1 to hit on the Axe vs AP-4 and Flat 3 on the Reaper.

However, the biggest selling point for me is that allying in the 1-3 Armigers means I am not spending 1-3 elite slots on Wulfen Dreadnoughts. And we like our elite slots. But, adding an extra Vanguard Detachment is the same CP cost as the Auxiliary Super Heavy, so I am not sure it's worth it.
   
Made in no
Liche Priest Hierophant





Bergen

Anybody who has a breakdown of the changes? Either wolves or just space marines?

   
Made in us
Steadfast Grey Hunter






I don't have my book in front of me but I think Wulfen are 5 points cheaper, and their thunder hammers are only 10 points now (i'm assuming the SS is included like in the book)
that brings them close very close to my staple of Wolf guard with TH/SS + JP. i think a 3 point difference.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
my math was off, wulfen would be 9 points cheaper!

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/06/24 23:36:19


Primaris fanboy: "NO, you can't just give old marines 2W, they're supposed to be squatted!" GW: "Heavy Bolters go brrrrrrrr"
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

If the argument for their uniqueness is spamming Wulfen and Thunderwolves, then it wasn't really a unique army to begin with whether you like it or not.
nervous sweating
Regal Hunt, A custom space wolf army: https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/774993.page#10435681 
   
Made in us
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain






A Protoss colony world

Yeah Wulfen are actually gross now. Pity there's no reason to take the axes on them, as in the one unit of them I own I built two of them that way for Rule of Cool. Means I'll need to buy more Wulfen if I want to run a competitive unit of them.

My armies (re-counted and updated on 11/1/23, including modeled wargear options):
Dark Angels: ~15000 Astra Militarum: ~1200 | Adeptus Custodes: ~1900 | Imperial Knights: ~2000 | Sisters of Battle: ~3500 | Leagues of Votann: ~1200 | Tyranids: ~2600 | Stormcast Eternals: ~5000
Check out my P&M Blogs: ZergSmasher's P&M Blog | Imperial Knights blog | Board Games blog | Total models painted in 2023: 40 | Total models painted in 2024: 7 | Current main painting project: Dark Angels
 Mr_Rose wrote:
Who doesn’t love crazy mutant squawk-puppies? Eh? Nobody, that’s who.
 
   
Made in no
Liche Priest Hierophant





Bergen

Yeah a wulfen with shield and hammer is 30 points. While better offensive the 3+ 4++ comperes less favorable to the 2+ and armour of contempt and 5++ from the Terminators. I guess it is a trade off of offensence VS defence.

The wulfen howl aura is also neat.

But am I wrong that it was the old price?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/06/25 22:01:15


   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut





United Kingdom

Friendly tournament over the weekend and decided to take the pups out for walkies

1k Points, wasn't the most competitive list (mostly because of what models i had ready and painted) but was pretty much as follows:

Spoiler:
Captain with Thunder Hammer
2 units of assault intercessors
1 unit of regular intercessors
2 single cyber wolves
2 ven dreads (one with axe/shield, the other with hell frost and wolf claw)
3 eradicators
1 impulsor transport.


Game one against Death Guard, was rolling fairly well and got first turn, making a T1 charge with my Axe dread into a Plague Burst Crawler that was deployed a little too close.
Killed a defiler in T2 and mopped up in T3.

Game two was against imperial guard. I was actually tabled with the exception of my warlord in this game in T5 but somehow won it on points! Guard auto wounding on 6s is so strong. I got lucky on this one.

Game three was against a not-so-friendly grey knights list that included two dreadknights, terminators and draigo. Coupled with bad rolls on my part, the game was over in two turns. I killed two models from a strike squad. Ouch!

Game four was against Orks, and bad deployment on my part opened for door for a turn one Wagh... it was not pretty. I managed to rally from it a bit, eventually killing most units in the ork army but by this point, I was too far behind on points and the game was lost.

All in all a fun day. I still find myself wondering about the position wolves are in right now, but a 50% win rate is probably what you want to be seeing in friendly games right?

That said, where do you guys see us in the grand scheme of things? If we were to split all 40k factions into two tiers, upper and lower, which group would you put us in?

Adeptus Mechanicus
Tyranids  
   
Made in no
Liche Priest Hierophant





Bergen

It depends a bit on how you define it. But if I only the best are in the topp I do not think marines are there, and probably not SW. That beeing said in a cassual environment we are doing just fine I think.

   
Made in it
Waaagh! Ork Warboss




Italy

 Crafter91 wrote:


All in all a fun day. I still find myself wondering about the position wolves are in right now, but a 50% win rate is probably what you want to be seeing in friendly games right?



This is a general misconception people have. A 50ish% win rate is what we get IF players have access to a large collection and both players are equally lucky and skilled. Randon X collection vs random Y collection rarely ends up with a 50/50 rate, it can easily be 0/100.

That said, I play only firstborn SW armies, 2000 points games using a collection of 3500ish points, refuse to play against any other imperium faction (for fluff reasons, I've done that since I started playing this faction) and although I don't keep track of my wins/losses record I have the feeling that my army's win rate is around 50%. Cannot say what's the general state of the faction, only my experience.

 
   
Made in no
Liche Priest Hierophant





Bergen

What are good secondaries for us? I have a hard time finding one. My opponent is an ork, and they are just so bothersome and agressive.

   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut





United Kingdom

 Niiai wrote:
What are good secondaries for us? I have a hard time finding one. My opponent is an ork, and they are just so bothersome and agressive.


Warrior Born where you score for making charges or just being in combat is often an auto take for me. I max it most games.

Heroic Challenge is now also quite good because we can pick the character we want to kill. In your case, it means you can target a weird boy or something where as previously, your opponent would have made you chase after Ghaz. Even if your warlord doesn't get the job done, kill it in combat with any old unit for 10 points.

Depending on the mission, particularly the objective placements, Oaths of Moment is still decent for clocking up points slowly over the game for killing stuff and being in the midboard.

I like behind enemy lines - your ork opponent will likely want to run everything forward so play a couple of reserve units and find a safe spot to sneak in on their back line and potentially steal their home objective while you're at it.

Adeptus Mechanicus
Tyranids  
   
Made in no
Liche Priest Hierophant





Bergen

Lol. I would not choose the weardboy! When ever I tryed the old one the opponent chose the weard boy. In almost all games the weardboy will roll with Da'jump. After that it is very hard to hunt him down, 15 point jumping from one side of the map to the other.

Warrior born you max? Do you mean warrior pride? Are you getting 2 things making charges even turn 1? I can easy see it getting 9 points, but 15 seems like a lot.

Glory kills seem good.

I am considering a mighty saga. But then I compare my HQ with the Ork HQ. The warboss on beastsnagha puts them on T6, D3 mount (with mortal wounds) and damage - 1. And then they run it with brutal but cunning and headchoppa killwhoppa. That ork boss is soooooo killy! And our HQ is no where near as killy. And a mighty saga is the same secondary as a Ork stratagem. It just seems like it is better in their codex. Both codexes have a fight on death hero stratagem.

   
Made in ca
Intoxicated Centigor





Good morning everyone. From what I understand SW are not really in the best place atm but I'm still very interested in the army due to models.

With that new chapter approved detached coming out(I just play with friends) I'm looking to use it and build a "Wolf Army". Canis/Lord on Thunderwolf, Thunderwolf cavalry, fenris wolves cyberwolves. No idea how that would be perform. My guess is not the best but it would look nice and be fun. I'm mainly asking is what kind of ranged support would you use to get them down the field? I'd rather not use Longfangs(but will of the dread/tank options suck) because I would want my infantry to be wolves or riding wolves.

And what loadouts on the Lord/Thunderwolf cavalry. Ideally this would be a 2k list.

I haven't played a single game of 40k since the first month of 6th ED. So still a lot of learning to do.

Thank you all for your time,

~Rogzor
   
Made in no
Liche Priest Hierophant





Bergen

You might be in luck. In the next 6 months competetive matches will be using a different detachment where you do not need troops. Troops is the worst part of a space marine army. And none of the troops rides on wolves.

Long fangs, eliminators and plasma redemptor dreads are our best ranged attack. So only dreadnoughts for you? At that point yiu can pritty much grab any ranged model you like. So rule of cool, grab the ranged support you like best.

   
Made in ca
Intoxicated Centigor





 Niiai wrote:
You might be in luck. In the next 6 months competetive matches will be using a different detachment where you do not need troops. Troops is the worst part of a space marine army. And none of the troops rides on wolves.

Long fangs, eliminators and plasma redemptor dreads are our best ranged attack. So only dreadnoughts for you? At that point yiu can pritty much grab any ranged model you like. So rule of cool, grab the ranged support you like best.


I saw that detachment in the Ark of Omen/Chapter approved thing that comes out soon. So I thought it would be a good time to do an army that has models I like a bunch since I can do a fun/theme.
   
Made in au
Dakka Veteran




GW has dropped the new dataslate. It appears that they forgot Wolf Guard can take combi-weapons. For 23 points per model, you can get a WG with a jump pack and combi-melta. Basically you can field 30 fast guys with combi-meltas fpr 690 points in total. And if you don't have enough LoS blocking then you put them into reserve. That seems absurd to me.
   
 
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