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Made in gb
Ship's Officer



London

Yeah understood about the CCB. I’ve got one awaiting construction and I’m going to magnetise my Lord so he can either stand on it or on foot.

That said, the extra 50 points it costs is significant. I see my Lord loitering around zapping things with his voltaic staff, not charging into things. He’s just not a particularly scary guy. I don’t think he’ll miss the extra speed and stats all that much, though it’s a shame to lose the gun. It would be nice of course, but might not be essential. And it might be useful to have my Lord as another infantry unit.

I’m contemplating swapping his warlord trait from enduring will to voice of the triarch. Probably not though.
   
Made in us
Nimble Ellyrian Reaver



Longmont, Co

Another factor is the ccb’s hull is huge compared to overlord on foot’ base size. That makes a difference measuring buff ranges. The movement is also significantly better.

I’d take 2 units of 18 warriors if I absolutely couldn’t find the 50 points more organically. (Not your list just in general)

I start lists with a ccb, I decide if I want two, go from there. Overlord is never considered.

All of the things. Most of the time. 
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut




Yeah what you get for a CCB over a regular overlord easily justifies the extra points.
   
Made in gb
Ship's Officer



London

Good advice. I guess dropping 4 warriors might be the way to get the extra points, though it feels really wrong. And of course I'd be kicking myself if two would have lived at any point.

One thing I notice about the list is that it has almost no shooting. There's dakka from the warriors but if I meet any kind of hard targets I'll have to handle them in melee. Wonder if that's a problem. To be honest though, the Necron heavy support options don't really seem all that great, so maybe it's fine. I'll be in people's faces very soon, thanks to the pre-game move, so hopefully they won't get to do much shooting either. I can definitely see the argument for adding some LHDs in or something though.
   
Made in gb
Deranged Necron Destroyer



UK, Midlands

I wouldn't completely write off Overlords. In a lot of games the Overlord will achieve the same job as the CCB for 55pts less. I often find that either choice needs to stay near to my infantry blocks for the buffs, and doesn't want to be in combat. If that's the case then the extra movement and durability isn't needed.


Lack of good Dakka outside of Warriors is an issue with Necrons. Deathguard and Dark Eldar have both made me feel like I need Dakka. The Deathguard terminator blob with buff characters is not something you want to charge into, and being able to shoot down DE transports would help a lot.

The 3" extra range from Mephrit or Healthy Paranoia can make Warriors Dakka a bit more usable. Otherwise we have to look at some less than ideal choices. Doom Scythes seem like they have a lot of shooting for the points. 3 Particle Tomb blades have a lot of shots for 75pts. Anni Barges?



This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/04/16 12:01:01


 
   
Made in us
Omnipotent Necron Overlord






CCB IMO is good for getting voltaic stack into range. Otherwise he is a +55 point overlord with a gauss cannon (not a terrible weapon but not a requirement). Would not recommend putting any of them in CC.

I honestly wouldn't include a noble in any list if it wasn't a requirement to get protocols. Out of the nobles though - I'd take an overlord over a royal warden every-time. The CCB vs overlord comes down to points and relics and roll.

Relic res orb is probably the thing a lord does best IMO - Overlord just does that better cause it is way cheaper on him.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/04/16 16:10:15


If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder 
   
Made in us
Nimble Ellyrian Reaver



Longmont, Co

Got to disagree with you. It’s a lot more than an extra gun. You wouldn’t put a strength 8 (mephrit) void reaper in combat?

Or a novokh ccb with blood scythe and the warlord trait?

The relic orb is the most useful thing a LORD can have. It’s wasteful on a ccb. Your ccb should have the voltaic staff to get the most out of him if he’s chilling behind your lines. A relic weapon works great if your wanting to use your ccb as a missile.

If you have two ccb’s it makes it easy to have a phaeron chilling and a melee ccb that can be aggressive. I could very easily build you a combat ccb that’s way more useful than as a orb caddy.

The movement and fly are no small thing, you’re writing off major buffs.

All of the things. Most of the time. 
   
Made in us
Omnipotent Necron Overlord






Cauthon wrote:
Got to disagree with you. It’s a lot more than an extra gun. You wouldn’t put a strength 8 (mephrit) void reaper in combat?

Or a novokh ccb with blood scythe and the warlord trait?

The relic orb is the most useful thing a LORD can have. It’s wasteful on a ccb. Your ccb should have the voltaic staff to get the most out of him if he’s chilling behind your lines. A relic weapon works great if your wanting to use your ccb as a missile.

If you have two ccb’s it makes it easy to have a phaeron chilling and a melee ccb that can be aggressive. I could very easily build you a combat ccb that’s way more useful than as a orb caddy.

The movement and fly are no small thing, you’re writing off major buffs.
It has 4 attacks dude. It does next to nothing in melee. Like I said I like the voltaic on him. Give up very little in CC to have 2 decent shooting weapons at bs2+ and can buff. The best use for a lord though is the relic orb Which can bring back over 100 points easily anytime you use it. There is no CCB that is any good in CC without a relic so you might as well take something else to fill that CC roll IMO. 4 Wraiths or Skorp destroyers come to mind. Or even 9 Scarabs are going to do way more damage than a CCB in melee.

If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder 
   
Made in us
Nimble Ellyrian Reaver



Longmont, Co

4 attacks? Didn’t you charge? You’ve got movement 12 and fly, pretty sure you got the charge. Are we novokh? There’s a plus 1 attack strat and the bloodscythe gives you 2 attacks, so we have 8 attacks hitting on 2’s strength 7. That’s a cookie cutter ccb and it has double the attacks you’re trying to pretend it has.

A naked ccb has 4 wounds a point of toughness and a gauss cannon on an overlord. That’s worth 50 points right there, there’s also double the movement plus fly. That’s twice as good as an overlord easy and it’s only 150% as many points.

A mephrit ccb with the void reaper and warlord trait is strength 8 tough 7. Void reaper doesn’t care about your armor save or you invulns or your feel no pains. Flat 3 damage for everyone, that’s huge! He could go hot into a unit of terminators and 1 shot a bunch of them. 5 attacks hitting on 2’s wounding on 2’s or 3’s and there’s basically no saves. What kind of dreadnaught wants any part of that? That’s nothing?

“They can’t do anything because they only have 4 attacks”? Cmon. They don’t even have to attack to be more valuable than the overlord on foot. It can hide behind your screen then jump ahead, you should always always be able to get the charge with a ccb.

Voltaic staff is great and a ccb that’s hanging back buffing and having quality shots is still money. However, you could build a (second) ccb that can ABSOLUTLEY make his points back and then some. By wrecking in combat.

The extra movement allows you to get your hq where you need it to be to spread protocols to faster units. That alone is clutch.

If you want a super cheap hq choice then maybe look at a lord. They don’t have anything better to do than be an orb caddy and they’re providing a buff that you can’t get otherwise (except for destroyer units). That 100 points should probably be a down payment on a ccb though. I wouldn’t waste a relic orb on a ccb. They’ve got better stuff to be doing that’s relic dependent.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
I forgot to mention quantum shielding. How many points is that worth to ya??

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/04/16 20:22:07


All of the things. Most of the time. 
   
Made in gb
Furious Fire Dragon




UK

I personally wouldn't really go too hard on combat CCB's since you're jumping through a lot of hoops to have a relatively underwhelming combat character that costs 150+ points. In a game where Drukhari and Marine characters are wiping out units while being in the 60-100 range it's not really a good thing to build into.

However, all of the other stuff about CCB's is absolutely correct. Unless you're super tight on points and/or playing 500-1000 points level games and just trying to squeeze in as many different kinds of units as possible then there's really no need to ever go a normal Overlord. Increased footprint for buffs, fly, vehicle keyword (for shooting into CC), quantum shielding, an extra gun and 9 wounds are pretty much always worth the extra points. Put Enduring Will on that and you have a legitimately hard to kill character.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/04/16 20:41:42


Nazi punks feth off 
   
Made in us
Nimble Ellyrian Reaver



Longmont, Co

I wouldn’t put a combat ccb in every list and I’d rarely have that as my primary ccb.

I enjoy combat ccb’s in threat over load lists. He can actually keep up with skorpekhs and wraiths and can throw his weight into combats you feel good about. I think 150 points and a cpl CP can be a fair cost to pay. He’s like a laser guided missile, you can get him anywhere you want him and he’s got bite when he gets there.

At the least he’s providing protocols and that could be huge for novokh if you’ve got your timing down.

Like I said, I’ve usually got the phaeron with voltaic before that in every list I chose to use him in.

I can’t help you with the 80 point blenders, we just flat don’t have that. That can’t mean close combat isn’t worth doing anymore. This is still ninth edition..


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I’ve got a ccb and two chronomancers in every list. Third hq can be a few different things and a missile ccb is just an option I find interesting, sometimes.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/04/16 21:03:29


All of the things. Most of the time. 
   
Made in us
Deranged Necron Destroyer






Not yet having had the pleasure to use my CCB in a game, I agree with all the points made in its favor. I've mine with the Voltaic Staff and Enduring Will warlord trait. Any pre-game Warlord abilities (e.g., Triarch's Will) are better spent on a Cryptek or Royal Warden, given that they don't require your Warlord to be on the table to get their benefit. Weather or not Triarch's Will is worth the command point for Rarefied Nobility I couldn't say, but the point I suppose is that you don't need to put all your eggs in one CCB.

The Overlord on foot does have the option for the Tachyon Arrow, which seems like a useful piece of equipment to me. But I'm not sure if 100 points for a one-use item is worth it. If you take the Arrow of Infinity and use the auto-wound stratagem (Techno-Oracular Targeting) that's 6 guaranteed damage to a big target; but I don't think it's worth 100+ points and two CP (three if, C'tan forbid, you fail your hit roll). Anyone have a positive recommendation for including a Tachyon Arrow?

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Made in gb
Ship's Officer



London

If I was building a melee character for Necrons I think I might start with a Lokhust Lord. He’s a fair bit cheaper than a CCB, though obviously nothing like as tough. I like how he’d buff any Skorpekhs too. I’ve actually started a conversion for one, based on a Skorpekh Lord (I’ve got 3 indomitus sets so had a spare) on a LHD’s body. So far it’s working well, though the arms are next and that’s going to be challenging. It’s quite cool that he’s got three of them, as he can hold a scythe in two and have a res orb in the third.

One slightly annoying thing about the codex is that the Indomitus characters can’t generally have the weapon relics. They’ve all got new stuff and it can’t be replaced by things like the blood scythe or voltaic staff. So I find myself converting the new guys (which are generally nicer, more detailed models) back into the old ones.

I’m not too worried about an overlord on foot getting the voltaic staff into range, of something at least. He’s an eternal expansionists so he’ll be marching about the place. I think I need to experiment with different CCB options though, because they’re definitely good.

I’ve magnetised my Imotekh’s feet so he can go on either the 25mm base he came with (to be tournament legal) or a 40mm base (to not look utterly ridiculous). This has given me ideas for Overlords too. My Voltaic staff guy will be able to go on foot or on the CCB, but that gives me the potential option to create another Overlord with the Blood Scythe, who can ride on the CCB at other times.
   
Made in de
Nihilistic Necron Lord






Germany

Cauthon wrote:

A mephrit ccb with the void reaper and warlord trait is strength 8 tough 7. Void reaper doesn’t care about your armor save or you invulns or your feel no pains. Flat 3 damage for everyone, that’s huge! He could go hot into a unit of terminators and 1 shot a bunch of them. 5 attacks hitting on 2’s wounding on 2’s or 3’s and there’s basically no saves. What kind of dreadnaught wants any part of that? That’s nothing?


I suggest you read the rules. There is no way a CCB can get to T7. The void reaper doesnt ignore inv. An inv is not a rule which ignores wounds. A dreadnought would only get 2 damage, because duty eternal (-1 damage) is not a rule which ignores wounds, its a rule which reduces wounds.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/04/17 05:18:17


 
   
Made in gb
Ship's Officer



London

 p5freak wrote:
Cauthon wrote:

A mephrit ccb with the void reaper and warlord trait is strength 8 tough 7. Void reaper doesn’t care about your armor save or you invulns or your feel no pains. Flat 3 damage for everyone, that’s huge! He could go hot into a unit of terminators and 1 shot a bunch of them. 5 attacks hitting on 2’s wounding on 2’s or 3’s and there’s basically no saves. What kind of dreadnaught wants any part of that? That’s nothing?


I suggest you read the rules. There is no way a CCB can get to T7. The void reaper doesnt ignore inv. An inv is not a rule which ignores wounds. A dreadnought would only get 2 damage, because duty eternal (-1 damage) is not a rule which ignores wounds, its a rule which reduces wounds.

I thought this was the case. I was a bit confused y the claims of how good the blood scythe is. It ignores feel no pain -stuff like apothecaries. Not bad, but not all that spectacular. I could definitely see myself killing one or two deathguard (or 0 blightlords) and then getting swamped.

Nightbringer is in my list for a reason: he ignores invulnerable saves and hits like a train. He’ll take a chunk out of Mortarion and kill most other stuff. But a CCB overlord hits in melee only slightly harder than a single skorpekh destroyer, and nowhere close to as hard as a unit.
   
Made in de
Ladies Love the Vibro-Cannon Operator






Hamburg

Moosatronic Warrior wrote:
I wouldn't completely write off Overlords. In a lot of games the Overlord will achieve the same job as the CCB for 55pts less. I often find that either choice needs to stay near to my infantry blocks for the buffs, and doesn't want to be in combat. If that's the case then the extra movement and durability isn't needed.

Well, I don't like lumbering HQ in a rather static army.
CCB can wreck havoc behind enemy lines and its fun to use him in this way.
Look at your opponent's face.

Former moderator 40kOnline

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Made in de
Nihilistic Necron Lord






Germany

Mandragola wrote:

I thought this was the case. I was a bit confused y the claims of how good the blood scythe is. It ignores feel no pain -stuff like apothecaries. Not bad, but not all that spectacular. I could definitely see myself killing one or two deathguard (or 0 blightlords) and then getting swamped.


Please get the names right. There is the void reaper, and there is the blood scythe. Both are different relics. The void reaper only ignores FNP abilities (like the 6+ from apothecaries, or the 5+ from revoltingly resilient), not inv. It also doesnt work against abilities which reduce damage, like duty eternal.
   
Made in us
Big Mek in Kustom Dragster with Soopa-Gun





Nebraska, USA

"You cannot ignore wounds from this attack" type stuff only counters FNP and Ghaz/Ctan's max damage per turn (faq before anything that came out that did it said they are the same thing in this case)
Duty Eternal is not ignoring damage. If it was worded "Ignore 1 wound from each attack" then it would but its worded way different.

Thsi is why the Nightbringer is the most potent character killer because he ignores FNPs and invuls and wound caps. To my knowledge he is the ONLY thing that ignores all of that.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/04/17 12:28:24


An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang.

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6000pts Admech/Knights
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Made in us
Nimble Ellyrian Reaver



Longmont, Co

 p5freak wrote:
Cauthon wrote:

A mephrit ccb with the void reaper and warlord trait is strength 8 tough 7. Void reaper doesn’t care about your armor save or you invulns or your feel no pains. Flat 3 damage for everyone, that’s huge! He could go hot into a unit of terminators and 1 shot a bunch of them. 5 attacks hitting on 2’s wounding on 2’s or 3’s and there’s basically no saves. What kind of dreadnaught wants any part of that? That’s nothing?


I suggest you read the rules. There is no way a CCB can get to T7. The void reaper doesnt ignore inv. An inv is not a rule which ignores wounds. A dreadnought would only get 2 damage, because duty eternal (-1 damage) is not a rule which ignores wounds, its a rule which reduces wounds.


Strength and attack, not strength and toughness for the mephrit warlord trait. My bad.

All of the things. Most of the time. 
   
Made in gb
Proud Triarch Praetorian





 Vineheart01 wrote:
"You cannot ignore wounds from this attack" type stuff only counters FNP and Ghaz/Ctan's max damage per turn (faq before anything that came out that did it said they are the same thing in this case)
Duty Eternal is not ignoring damage. If it was worded "Ignore 1 wound from each attack" then it would but its worded way different.

Thsi is why the Nightbringer is the most potent character killer because he ignores FNPs and invuls and wound caps. To my knowledge he is the ONLY thing that ignores all of that.
So far

I think Be'lakor is supposed to as well if I recall the preview articel from weeks ago correctly...

Experience is something you get just after you need it
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Made in us
Nihilistic Necron Lord






I still don’t think the Relic Orb is worth the Relic slot. A mere +1 to a single reanimation roll per game. With the best odds option of using it only a 20 blob of Warriors with only a single model left, you’re looking at four additional Warriors from it. Granted that’s not nothing, but I don’t know that it’s Relic worthy. Using it on a big blog of Destroyers might be better, where those couple of extra rolls make a or break a whole multi wound model, but you’re also looking at it maybe doing nothing at all there. Instead of +1 I wish the Relic Orb gave you two uses of it.

 
   
Made in gb
Deranged Necron Destroyer



UK, Midlands

If taking the OOE res orb prevents you taking another relic, then it's going to depend on how badly you want another relic. If all it costs you is the CP for Dynastic Heirlooms, then I think it's well worth it. A 1 CP strat that gave +1 to RP rolls would be our most used strat if it existed.

   
Made in us
Omnipotent Necron Overlord






 AduroT wrote:
I still don’t think the Relic Orb is worth the Relic slot. A mere +1 to a single reanimation roll per game. With the best odds option of using it only a 20 blob of Warriors with only a single model left, you’re looking at four additional Warriors from it. Granted that’s not nothing, but I don’t know that it’s Relic worthy. Using it on a big blog of Destroyers might be better, where those couple of extra rolls make a or break a whole multi wound model, but you’re also looking at it maybe doing nothing at all there. Instead of +1 I wish the Relic Orb gave you two uses of it.

Tomb blades / Lychgard / A big destroyer squad all can get pretty silly amounts of points back for it. It is also great on warriors. Considering most our strats only cost 1 CP - spending 1 CP pregame to get half a unit back is totally worth it IMO.

If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder 
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut




I think the res orb can be good as it goes off in the command phase - if you use it on a big squad of warriors for example you can get free movement onto or near an objective out of phase, then secure it in the following movement phase.

But for the exact same reason this makes using the orb kinda awkward as it completely relies on prediction. You can't move to the unit, then use it. If you want to get it off garunteed then the bearer has to babysit whatever unit it wants to res. Which in turn makes it really easy for your opponent to predict what you're up to. For that reason I don't think the res orb, relic or otherwise, is worth it unless you're running 60+ warriors as you probably won't have a prime situation for it.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/04/20 08:12:41


 
   
Made in gb
Deranged Necron Destroyer



UK, Midlands

All your core units probably want to be near a Noble anyway for the movement buff + whatever else they are giving out. But if your opponent starts killing a unit that isn't in orb range, make sure to bring back reanimating models closer to the orb carrier. In order to be worth using an orb on, a unit needs to take a lot of casualties but not die, which means you should get quite a lot of reans to chain back to the orb.

   
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Fresh-Faced New User




I am looking at the Skorpekh Lord since I want to run a unit of Skorpekh Destroyers because I feel like it can really pack a punch and give the extra rerolls to the Skorpekhs, is this a bad move generally? I am not quite certain it is worth 130 pts.
   
Made in gb
Ship's Officer



London

teamtigerstripe wrote:
I am looking at the Skorpekh Lord since I want to run a unit of Skorpekh Destroyers because I feel like it can really pack a punch and give the extra rerolls to the Skorpekhs, is this a bad move generally? I am not quite certain it is worth 130 pts.

I think people generally find the Skorpekh Lord to be a bit overpriced. For only 5 points more you could get a unit of 9 scarabs, for example. I think it's a shame he can't access any of the melee relics. I think he'd start looking more useful if you had two or more units of Skorpekhs, but doing that tends to be challenging because only one can be protected by the strat at a time.

I slightly prefer the Lokhust Lord. He's cheaper, he flies and he can have a relic. He's really good with the voltaic staff so if you have a special character Lord like Anrakyr he could be a good way to go.
   
Made in de
Ladies Love the Vibro-Cannon Operator






Hamburg

Mandragola wrote:
teamtigerstripe wrote:
I am looking at the Skorpekh Lord since I want to run a unit of Skorpekh Destroyers because I feel like it can really pack a punch and give the extra rerolls to the Skorpekhs, is this a bad move generally? I am not quite certain it is worth 130 pts.

I think people generally find the Skorpekh Lord to be a bit overpriced. For only 5 points more you could get a unit of 9 scarabs, for example. I think it's a shame he can't access any of the melee relics. I think he'd start looking more useful if you had two or more units of Skorpekhs, but doing that tends to be challenging because only one can be protected by the strat at a time.

I slightly prefer the Lokhust Lord. He's cheaper, he flies and he can have a relic. He's really good with the voltaic staff so if you have a special character Lord like Anrakyr he could be a good way to go.

Well, I'm more into a CCB Lord.
He's rather fast, can hold its own if necessary and can wreck havoc behind enemy lines.
Perfect for disrupting enemy plans.

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Somewhere over the rainbow, way up high

 wuestenfux wrote:
Mandragola wrote:
teamtigerstripe wrote:
I am looking at the Skorpekh Lord since I want to run a unit of Skorpekh Destroyers because I feel like it can really pack a punch and give the extra rerolls to the Skorpekhs, is this a bad move generally? I am not quite certain it is worth 130 pts.

I think people generally find the Skorpekh Lord to be a bit overpriced. For only 5 points more you could get a unit of 9 scarabs, for example. I think it's a shame he can't access any of the melee relics. I think he'd start looking more useful if you had two or more units of Skorpekhs, but doing that tends to be challenging because only one can be protected by the strat at a time.

I slightly prefer the Lokhust Lord. He's cheaper, he flies and he can have a relic. He's really good with the voltaic staff so if you have a special character Lord like Anrakyr he could be a good way to go.

Well, I'm more into a CCB Lord.
He's rather fast, can hold its own if necessary and can wreck havoc behind enemy lines.
Perfect for disrupting enemy plans.


After a few games, i've grown to really like the CCB with Gauss Cannon, Staff of Light, and Volataic Staff, with a rez orb providing close support for a unit of 20 reaper warriors.

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MajorStoffer wrote:
...
Sternguard though, those guys are all about kicking ass. They'd chew bubble gum as well, but bubble gum is heretical. Only tau chew gum. 
   
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Furious Fire Dragon




UK

I think you'd only ever look at the Destroyer Lords if you are really going heavy (2-3 units) on Destroyers and that's mainly for the rr 1's to wound. And if you were to do that then you may as well go a Lokhust Lord instead.

Skorpekh Lord is just too expensive to be a buff character, a combat character or a damage sponge. And it's not especially amazing at being a damage sponge or a combat character as-is.

Nazi punks feth off 
   
 
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