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Here's the PDF: uk.games-workshop.com/tournaments/40k-2006-07/assets/40k-2006-07-grand-final.pdf

Lunch was boring as all get out.  Did some quick number importing and crunching in excel, you can check the file out here: web.njit.edu/~jal0737/UKGT Breakdown.xls

Here's some quick stats:

Chaos - 33 Entries, 28.7% of Players, Highest Placing 1st
Demonhunters - 2 Entries, 1.74% of Players, Highest Placing 98th
Dark Eldar - 4 Entries, 3.48% of Players, Highest Placing 7th
Eldar - 14 Entries, 12.17% of Players, Highest Placing 3rd
Imperial Guard - 4 Entries, 3.48% of Players, Highest Placing 38th
Necrons - 6 Entries, 5.22% of Players, Highest Placing 18th
Orks - 2 Entries, 1.74% of Players, Highest Placing 15th
Space Marines - 24 Entries, 20.87% of Players, Highest Placing 2nd
Tau - 18 Entries, 15.65% of Players, Highest Placing 6th
Tyranids - 6 Entries, 5.22% of Players, Highest Placing 5th
Witch Hunters - 2 Entries, 1.74% of Players, Highest Placing 48th

Only 2 of the top 20 were space marines (and I'd bet at least 1 was Blood Angels at that) and only 1 eldar. Kinda supports therions latests arguments against ranking Space Marines and Eldar as power armies (atleast for the European metagame).

Chaos dominated by a large margin (nothing shocking there).

I don't know about that. Rank the results by VP differential and you'll see Eldar shoot to first place, Nids stay the same, Marines drop to 9th. The rest of the top 10 go to Chaos. Tau & DE drop out of the top 10 all together (staying in the top 15 though), and Orks go from 15th to 46th! Chaos takes practically everything else.

I think that Chaos is currently the most powerful dex (only because of IW and Demon Bombs), but I do think Eldar are one of the toughest armies out there. Give them some time to adapt, and for the Harlequins to come out.

I agree. Give it time and Eldar should start to dominate GT's more and more.

They have the first place winner's list. Iwin Warriors with 8 Oblits, and a bunch of 5 man Lascannon squads.

I know it's a small sample size, but pauvre Demonhunters.

And only 4 IG entries.  That's odd, isn't it?  I thought IG made up a larger percentage of the tourney circuit.

I think when Chaos gets redone (and rumors point to soon) and IW get the eventual nerf stick, you will see a LOT more variance in what army lists can go to the top.

With IW out of the equation so many other powerful builds shoot up, IW just happens to be the answer for almost any powerful list you can think of including Mech Eldar, Godzilla, Mech Tau, and even SAFH Marines.

Echoing Voodoo's comments, I think if Orks get a boost in their new codex and Chaos gets reined in by theirs (specifically IW and the all-infiltrating dbombs), the tourney scene might finally see more balance. There'll always be power lists, but maybe they won't be quite so dominating.

Chaos has the most effective troop delivery system in the game right now. The rhino rush is a thing of the past and Daemon summoning has taken its place.

Edit:  And a big thanks to Voodoo for posting the results, info, and analyis.

Posted By bigchris1313 on 03/06/2007 10:21 PM
And only 4 IG entries.  That's odd, isn't it?  I thought IG made up a larger percentage of the tourney circuit.

 

Since this is the finals, only the best players made it. There were a lot of IG players in the earlier heats, but they did very poorly, so not many made to the finals. I think the IG were the second or third worst army in terms of victories per player.

Witch Hunters also did very poorly, which surprised me since in my opinion they are one of the better armies out there.

Drop pod is just as good as deamon bomb and probably better. So Chaos should get their own drop pods. I do not see deamon summoning going away but maybe weakened.

- Greenie

Demons can come in a turn earlier (favored numbers), don't automatically give up VP's (versus 15 automatic VP's per pod), and may assault after summoning.

One could argue the benefits of being able to put a LOS-blocking vehicle wherever you want without the chance of it being destroyed by landing on enemy models, but every drop pod loving Space Marine player wishes they could assault upon touchdown.

I would have to say drop pods don't even come close. I will add to the above examples in that you have to pay for the drop pods, which means fewer troops to put in them, and shooting isn't as near as effective as being able to assault, especially when you have rending attacks!

With a Chaos codex on the horizon, along with orks, and maybe even a space marine redux, it could really shake up the tourney scene.

Drop pods can come down where you want them though, while deamons have to come off a squad. You can't have a small pack of deamons pop up behind a tank or on an unguarded flank.

I agree with Toreador. You can't get close to choas army without worrying about being obliterated by a demonette counter charge. Once the demons are down it's another matter, but until then... get close at your own risk.

I expect that if the new C:CSM removes Siren and does something to Iron Warriors (Obliterators moving to Heavy Support and going up 10pts) almost nothing can stand against Tyranids. If a tournament doesn't have more than 2 escalation games out of 6 I'd say Nids are a huge favorite to win it each time. I hope Codex: Orks is hard enough to make itself known on the tournament scene. If Mad Boyz make it into the new Codex in any shape or form we might be up for a big surprise.

Frankly I still can't see what the supposed incredible potential in the Eldar list is. Like FB Elves they are adept at playing hard to catch (vp denial) but that's about it. I'd like to note that this is completely opposite to the previous incarnation of Eldar which did totally dominate their opposition. Those armies (Alaitoc and Ulthwé ) were tougher than Marines of any variant and their success had nothing at all to do with elusiveness. However as we all know, nearly everything that was effective about Eldar was removed.

Posted By Therion- on 03/07/2007 6:16 PM
Frankly I still can't see what the supposed incredible potential in the Eldar list is. Like FB Elves they are adept at playing hard to catch (vp denial) but that's about it. I'd like to note that this is completely opposite to the previous incarnation of Eldar which did totally dominate their opposition. Those armies (Alaitoc and Ulthwé ) were tougher than Marines of any variant and their success had nothing at all to do with elusiveness. However as we all know, nearly everything that was effective about Eldar was removed.

I can't really let that one slide, the top Eldar player actually had the highest positive VP differential at the entire GT, with at least 1 20-0 massacre, and 3 or 4 17-3 wins. VP denial it wasn't.
There is a hell of a  lot of potential in the new Eldar codex, especially vs. the Iron Warriors that seem ubiquitous at UK GT finals.

Well if you can identify the incredible potential in the new Eldar codex as something else than "well they got meltaguns, a new vehicle upgrade and a new psychic power that works like a glorified markerlight" then please share the knowledge with the rest of us. More importantly, what potential does the new Eldar codex have that the old one didn't? Last edition you could make a mechanised Eldar army just as good as now, only you could naturally assault from your vehicles and you could easily pack more than 10 mobile heavy 3 starcannons to deal death with. You could also make an infantry army a lot better than now, because you could get free BS4 to a couple squads, your starcannons were 35% more powerful, Guardian squads were smaller and thus more min/maxed and your Wraithlords didn't need babysitters. In addition you could make those two super armies almost noone stood a chance against. So really the old codex had everything the new one has and more. So I repeat, what kind of incredible armies does the new one now allow that we should all get so excited about? I mean, is there something new about them we didn't already see (and beat) a decade ago?

Posted By Therion- on 03/08/2007 7:44 PM
 I mean, is there something new about them we didn't already see (and beat) a decade ago?

Harlequins quickly come to mind, new in the aspect of inclusion in the standard eldar dex and new in the form they now take.

Just playing devils advocate here. not saying they are better or worse.

Any info on the eldar list's content??

I think it's fair to say most power eldar setups just don't exist anymore in the sense of tourny dominance. Period.

There are still some moptions for cunning, elusive lists that in the hands of a good player can do great things...but then that is true to almost any list in the game...

Posted By Therion- on 03/08/2007 7:44 PM
Well if you can identify the incredible potential in the new Eldar codex as something else than "well they got meltaguns, a new vehicle upgrade and a new psychic power that works like a glorified markerlight" then please share the knowledge with the rest of us. More importantly, what potential does the new Eldar codex have that the old one didn't? Last edition you could make a mechanised Eldar army just as good as now, only you could naturally assault from your vehicles and you could easily pack more than 10 mobile heavy 3 starcannons to deal death with. You could also make an infantry army a lot better than now, because you could get free BS4 to a couple squads, your starcannons were 35% more powerful, Guardian squads were smaller and thus more min/maxed and your Wraithlords didn't need babysitters. In addition you could make those two super armies almost noone stood a chance against. So really the old codex had everything the new one has and more.

Well, if you're a starcannon spammer, Ulthwe or Alaitoc player then yes the new codex is worse than the old one. Boo hoo. Those 2 craftworlds deserved a spanking and they got one. Pure mech serpent spam is not as doable now, so you have to take more troops. Good, it makes you work round it but you don't necessarily lose power.

 So, in strict power terms overall Eldar got worse and I'm probably not going to convince you that they're any good because you sound like you're still getting over starcannons getting nerfed. And 3rd ed 40K is irrelevant now. Serpent rushing has been gone for a while. 

Now, if you actually want a powerful army you have to think with and never used to spam the no-brainers, they've got better.

New codex/upgraded units that are very useful:

1. Jetbike Autarch, lance, mandis, fusion. Very mobile tank-hunter, picks off small squads, can take on a unit of oblits and win, can take down uber characters on the charge and gives that all-important +1 reserves. In a 50% Escalation environment like the UKGT he's very useful.

2. Pathfinders. 2+ cover save soaks fire like nothing else. AP1 shots get oblits hiding and can whittle down a marines unit over a few turns. Very much overlooked in taking down light vehicles too. I've killed quite a few speeders with mine. Can be protected from assault by Harlie threat or range. Good for Infiltrate pushback also.

3. Harlequins. 6 with kisses and Shadowseer is great. Can take on small squads and wipe them out, large squads over a few turns, great character killers, fantastic countercharge threat. I run them in a Falcon, they can get the charge and go through gunlines like nothing else or I can leave them on foot for counter charge or to pick on exposed units. Mine have taken out a Speed Lieutenant and a Flying DP in 2 phases before gutting an IW gunline.

4. Fire Prisms. Excellent tanks, survivable, BS4. Insta-kill characters/oblits/DC, AP4 pie marines in cover or hordes, combined pie marines out of cover. Range is fantastic.

5. Spirit stones. You can't shoot, but you can't get stunned. Arguably more useful than before as the tank can hide for a turn and come out all guns blazing again.

6. Runes of Warding. Fancy shutting down Fury, Fear and Siren while causing wounds at the same time? These are mandatory on Farseers IMO.

There are plenty of other options but I have yet to use them all. Look beyond the starcannon, Disruption and Seer Council nerfs.

A new codex list used with units combining well is worth more than the sum of its parts. It rewards practice and combined arms and can still be devestating. Much more of a gamers codex than a spammers and that is a good thing.

*Disclaimer, this applies to games of 1500 points as I don't have enough experience at levels above that to make overall power level judgements.

EDIT: 3rd places Eldar lists was:

Autarch on jetbike, mandiblaster, fusion gun and laser lance

6 Fire Dragons
Wave Serpent, TL Shuricannon, Shuricannon, spirit stone, vectored engines
6 Harlequins all with kisses, shadowseer

5 Pathfinders
5 Pathfinders

8 Warp Spiders inc. Exarch with extra Spinner

Fire Prism + Shuricannon, Holofields, spirit stone
Fire Prism + Shuricannon, Holofields, spirit stone
Falcon, Scatter laser, shuricannon, holo-fields, sprit stone

 

 

 

 

Also take note that if you sort the results by VP Differential the Eldar player would have come in first, ahead of IW.

I think that Harlie's in Falcons do great things if you're talking about stupid sheer power. Taking 3 Grav Tanks with Holofields & Stones means you can almost count on keeping ~600 VP's away from your opponent while staying scoring.

TWO ORK PLAYERS!
TWO!
Still, one of them did quite well for himself.
But that is a joke.

Posted By Da Boss on 03/09/2007 4:43 AM
TWO ORK PLAYERS!
TWO!
Still, one of them did quite well for himself.
But that is a joke.

A joke?  What's the punchline, then?

What exactly do you find funny about it?

Not with the harlie set-up, the Falcon at least is mostly likely getting forward in harms way to deliver them and getting within 24" to unleash all of its firepower. Survivable it may be, but they'll all be taking glancing hits a lot of the time in missions other than Cleanse.

EDIT: Point is that its not necessairly a VP denial set-up. Played aggresively they can be very offensive. My Prisms have killed quite a few tanks by shooting them in the side with Shuriken cannons after the main cannon did nothing.

Posted By Da Boss on 03/09/2007 4:43 AM
TWO ORK PLAYERS!
TWO!
Still, one of them did quite well for himself.
But that is a joke.

There were only two Demon Hunters players, and only two Witch Hunter players.

IG & DE had 4 Entries, Nids & Necrons with 6. 

Turns out if you weren't playing Tau, Eldar, Marines, or Chaos your army was pretty under represented. 

The fact that Orks came in at 15th in an event like this is A-Freakin-Mazing.  I'm pretty jaded as far as Orks go with respect to competitiveness and it's got even me thinking about just throwing down a hoard of Boyz and just going for it.

Your review was good and I know all too well what you're trying to say. This is in a sense just another Dark Angels debate. Most people see the Dark Angels Codex as a Space Marine Codex where all the good stuff has been stripped away or made overpriced, and a few people see it as somehow equally powerful only different in the sense that although all the parts suck individually their sum is good. The fact of the matter just happens to be that 40K isn't complicated or strategic enough to allow players to play with completely points inefficient units and still win games against optimised armies if the relative skill levels are even near equal. Why do people assume only the players with weak armies are skilled generals? Give a stronger army with stronger parts to a skilled general and the combined effect equals a lot of wins.

About your list: Considering that units that intend to ride in Falcons need to deploy on the board without their transport in escalation missions, did you choose the Harlequins for that role because they can rarely be shot from a distance because of the Shadowseer ability? Also, was this the same reason you opted for the all so inferior Wave Serpent for your Fire Dragons, or did you simply want those Fire Prisms so badly? I can see the potential in holo-fielded tanks as troop transports (because they don't go down easily) but I can't see how they should be able to provide proper fire support as they can be shaken extremely easily. It's basically only Chaos who gets real firepower out of their vehicles.

When I say that I don't like the Eldar codex or that I think it's a failure, I mean the fact that most of the effective and fun variants were removed, and the Eldar didn't get enough in return. I'm sure everyone can agree that the army is still playable, but all in all the army list is much less flexible and much less varied as before. GW had the chance to make all Aspect Warriors and different army types tournament worthy in this revision, but they failed miserably.

I think there's a world of difference between the DA and Eldar codices, Therion.

DA may still be viable in tournaments which encourage list variety/mobility, and have some comp component.

Eldar clearly are still viable in the hardest cheesefest in the world.

That changes nothing. The fact that mech Eldar are viable (not an army you win tournaments with but one that still wins games) doesn't mean the army book is a success. How many other viable armies can you make of the Eldar codex that can get top5 placings in the UK GT? What happened to Ulthwé? Where are all the Alaitoc armies? Where are the Iyanden armies? Where are the Saim-Hann Vyper armies? Gathering dust.

The Eldar grav tanks are so exciting.

How is it not an army which wins tournaments? This particular season used a different scoring system than usual. If it had used the standard VP differential format, the 3rd place Eldar would indeed have won.

I do agree with you that the Eldar codex could have been better than it is. But I disagree that the old Alaitoc/Ulthwe garbage better represented the race. They were only no-Comp GT winning lists because of broken mechanics (disruption/unlimited seer council).  They were ass.