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What is GW thinking?

Usually before  codex "A" is released, there is atleast murmurs being "leaked" to keep the community abuzz with whats going to happen, what to expect, etc in codex "B". if for no other reason than to keep people who are waiting for their turn to have something to hope for.

But what do we have after the fabulous flop that was the Dark Angels codex (imo)? Codex apocalypse is supposedly being put on the backburner (the codex that was rumoured to be after the DA 'dex)

I can find absolutely nothing confirmed for the summer. And only distant hints of what might come in the fall.

There is just simply nothing.

I thought it was pretty much confirmed that Apocalypse will be the big september launch (no new game this year, but new rules, that's usually the september launch, right?)

haven't heard Boo about new fantasy releases, other than speculation though

You want rumors?  I've got rumors!

This summer is going to be a massive Fantasy/40k crossover campaign.  Nagash is back, baby, and this time he's a C'Tan!  There will be 11 hybrid army lists from both games, including Marines/Brettonians, Tau/Lizardmen, Orks/Orcs, Necrons/Undead, and Tyranids/Skaven!  Watch the slimy fly as Slaan duke it out with dreadnoughts!   A Bloodthirster will eat a Keeper of Secrets' head!  Lasguns will be the terror of goblins!

COMING THIS SUMMER!!  WOOOOOOOOO!

Posted By deitpike on 03/20/2007 11:55 AM
I thought it was pretty much confirmed that Apocalypse will be the big september launch (no new game this year, but new rules, that's usually the september launch, right?)

haven't heard Boo about new fantasy releases, other than speculation though

See? Thats what I mean. iIs like GW is on hiatus.

IIRC, Apocalypse was supposed to be earlier this year but got delayed to around septenber IF it gets released this year at all, that leaves what, 7 months between releases? What happened to 3x 40K and 3x FB releases a year we heard about not so very long ago?

I am confused and would love for someone from GW to saunter by and throw some dogs a bone.

Look at warseer, for example. Usually that forum is abuzz in rumours, but right now everything is purely speculation. Brimstone doesnt seem to know what to expect next, (or more likely isnt saying what he knows or thinks might be going on) and thus the new and rumours forum there is basically stagnant.

Is the BA WD release all we have to look forward to as far as any type of rules for this summer? if so, I guess its something, but I am not exactly sure what that something is.

After the reaction of DA, I guess their keeping things further under wraps....

Posted By carmachu on 03/20/2007 12:08 PM
After the reaction of DA, I guess their keeping things further under wraps....

LOL good call, didnt think of that one, but they could atleast tell us what is on the schedule to expect and not just plop out a dex like giving birth to a whale.

Rumours help drum up sales because alot of people buy models in anticipation of a codex's release just so they can play when they get the rules.

Posted By carmachu on 03/20/2007 12:08 PM
After the reaction of DA, I guess their keeping things further under wraps....

But what did they expect? They released a dex that was not only awful, but also a slap in the face for fans of the army. "Hay all you DA fans, with yer pretty (expensive) Dethwing and Ravenwing armies, heres yer new 'dex where those lists are trash, illegal and utterly worthless now! Oh yeah, and instead of some nifty alternative, we made the rest of the book suck too! Enjoy! Buy some new figurez, they are plastic now (and really poorly done with millimeter thick mold lines and other flaws)." I can't wait to hear Kirby's excuse this summer as to why profits are shrinking, again.

Posted By Iorek on 03/20/2007 11:56 AM
You want rumors?  I've got rumors!

This summer is going to be a massive Fantasy/40k crossover campaign.  Nagash is back, baby, and this time he's a C'Tan!  There will be 11 hybrid army lists from both games, including Marines/Brettonians, Tau/Lizardmen, Orks/Orcs, Necrons/Undead, and Tyranids/Skaven!  Watch the slimy fly as Slaan duke it out with dreadnoughts!   A Bloodthirster will eat a Keeper of Secrets' head!  Lasguns will be the terror of goblins!

COMING THIS SUMMER!!  WOOOOOOOOO!

Plus, This Summer Only, the Pan-Fo are reviled! THAT's RIGHT Kiddies! Pan-fo! Reviled! SUMMER 2007!!!!

I don't know if this makes me look forward to Games Day this summer or not. In recent years I've been underwhelmed by Baltimore's new stuff and rumors, as everything was seen/heard at previous events and posted online. Now ... should I expect a craptonne of new stuff, lurking in the dead silence leading to GD, or nothing because, well, there isn't anything happening ...


Just writing that makes me think the former, and I'm thinking of a way to sig Hellfury's whale birth plop comment to commemorate

- Boss Salvage

I thought I saw somewhere here that HE and VC were next on the fantasy docket. There's been a lot of pretty pictures of the new scenery, but not a lot about what it's 'for'. That's all I got, which is to say, not much...

Yeah, like Syr said, other than a couple whispers here about HE and VC (and not even sure which is first) and the pics of that nice terrain, it's been a ghost town.  I've been wondering what's next as well.


And the poor reaction to the DA codex is nobody's fault but Games Workshop's.  As long as they have people writing codices who are convinced that fluff and power are incompatible, I have a feeling that trend is going to continue.

I think by now it seems pretty clear that either
1) GW's recent cutbacks in design/studio (along with community/events efforts) have significantly slowed the development of new rules/armies/figures; or
2) This company is adrift and perhaps a little demoralized; or
3) Some combination of the two.

Seriously, GW seems to me to be in retrenchment mode. The heady, expansive mood of a few years ago has evaporated.

I suspect the recent deterioration in sales numbers and shareprice have hit this company harder than we realize.
(And I don't offer this with any sense of satisfaction or vindication. Personally, I'm still a big fanboy.)

If you think DA suck than you need to take another look.

In all honosty what the F&cK did GW expect?? by giving us all the big BONE for years there now finally going to pay. Raise prices, no deals, raise prices more, by the way now we dont send out replacements for screwed up pieces anymore, raise prices again, ok now we only package so that you have to buy two of everything, raise prices again oops new edition time to start over. Im a fan boy myself but if they go down the tubes they have no one else to blame. Other companies have come out. They make better models and have better prices. Now some one needs to make a quality futuristic tt game.

In agreement about DA. Love the book, but I never played all Deathwing or Ravenwing forces. Been playing DA since 87, and love the codex. But you all know how I feel.

Big Warhammer summer from the sounds of it. Special Character releases for every army, and a lot of plastic unit releases (dwarf miners, black orks, flagellants) along with terrain and Mighty Empires.

Apocolypse is sounding like next year, but as you all know it is usually awhile after the summer releases that anything is released. Rumour is that High Elf and 40k Chaos are the releases in the fall with 40k Orks and VC soon after in the new year. High Elves could be the fall release with Chaos near Christmas, or the other way around. A lot on the way...

Posted By Toreador on 03/20/2007 2:59 PM
Been playing DA since 87....

I love how everyone is suddenly a old school player since RT days.
I wonder if 90% of the people who say that arent outright liers. But, I  am severely digressing....

Posted By Toreador on 03/20/2007 2:59 PM

Big Warhammer summer from the sounds of it. Special Character releases for every army, and a lot of plastic unit releases (dwarf miners, black orks, flagellants) along with terrain and Mighty Empires.

Apocolypse is sounding like next year, but as you all know it is usually awhile after the summer releases that anything is released. Rumour is that High Elf and 40k Chaos are the releases in the fall with 40k Orks and VC soon after in the new year. High Elves could be the fall release with Chaos near Christmas, or the other way around. A lot on the way...

I think we are all aware of the speculation.

Its the confirmed rumours I am talking about. Stuff like "Yes, codex "B" is indeed the next release" etc.

So far, there is only speculation of the highest sort to go by.

Some options.

1. GW can afford to play with specialist marine codecii, they attract hardcore players who are into the chapter histories. I can see them treading carefully to get the Ork and Chaos codecii 'right', at least in their opinions. This may well include a lot of procrastination before printing a flawed codex as a way of guaranteeing 'quality'.

2. They may be trying a new ploy, suprise everyone with the next codex with a release that has been very carefully controlled. Maybe this will work better with sales. Long buildup of hype might not have the same effect as a fanfare release preceeded only by the prvious months White Dwarf - at most.

3. This is the option I buy into. GW have overstretched, too much new stuff at once they have production targets to meet with plastic marines (only the Vindicator and terminator hero left to do). There has been a lot of catchup of late with ork, empire, dark angel and eldar releases in quick succession - all major releases. With empire and orc stuff in patrticular on the way and Apocalypse big vehicles to prepare for production management may have asked for time. Hence a delay on codex releases.

4. The other option I buy into. While reported sales have been relatively high over Christmas, it was mainly resales to existing customers with some of the most popular lines. This is an aberration. Costs are still going up and while profits have recovered a little it is likely not enough to account for the major retooling they have done recently. So a cashflow problem, affecting production is putting a brake on codex releases.

Posted By Hellfury on 03/20/2007 3:08 PM
I love how everyone is suddenly a old school player since RT days.

I've been playing Tau since Woodstock!



And I think GW's self-destructive business practices are coming back to haunt them. Boxing everything, removing blisters, removing specific parts of those boxes from bitz orders (Eldar Exarchs anyone?), raising priced again and again, a magazine that simply has no content, and a new Codex that does everything but spell out how the army should be played and with what models - is it any surprise things are slowing down?

BYE

Posted By Hellfury on 03/20/2007 3:08 PM

Its the confirmed rumours I am talking about.

 

Oxymoron if ever there was one.

 

Posted By Toreador on 03/20/2007 2:59 PM
 Been playing DA since 87, and love the codex.

LOL! Yes, because DA, as it's own unique army (and not just a color scheme), has been around that long!

The craptacular DA codex isn't the cause of GW's woes, it's just the straw that broke the camel's back. My guess is they are in "Oh Crap" mode and that lackluster to pitiful sales from O&G, Empire, Eldar & DA have them scratching their heads wondering where have the salad days gone. All but the most dedicated of their dwindling supply of fanbois, further reduced by repeated reductions in force, (because we all know that's the only way they were able to pay people the awful wages they do: by hiring fanbois) are willing to see the writing on the wall. Management sure as hell doesn't want to look, so they wheel old Jervis out to and give him a script for the troops. But that isn't working either. Nor has their increased out put of cheap plastic kits that replace more complex metal ones yet have even less quality control and softer, clunkier detail while costing the same or more.

It's a strange world, here where people routinely lambaste Pete Haines and Andy Chambers for being terrible rules writers and being the root of all that is evil in v4, but when they were around, the stuff they wrote generated *excitement*. The miniature output was often high quality, which only fueled the flames. Look at the Demonhunters, Witchhunters and IG codices. None were overpowered in v3 and definitely not now for v4, yet when released people were totally psyched about them. Compare that with the last two 40k codices and the respective fans for those books generally feel like a wet blanket was thrown on them.

Likewise, all the whines about having to carry around issues of WD, Chapter Approved annuals or print outs of online FAQ's and articles were listened to and now we get none but the rare FAQ bone thrown out. Kudos do go out to GW for putting up out of print lists as downloadable PDF's. That is a good change. But the complete absence of anything but advertising/marketing content in WD and Black Gobbo is killing interest just as much as terribly written rule books, incessant price hikes and lackluster models. Though I'd be amazed if anyone at GW corporate is even remotely aware of such as they plan the latest round of layoffs while continuing to rake in fat checks and slap each others back about how this will all blow over soon.
 

Not exactly suddenly here. I have never been shy about how long I have been playing or how old I am, or the lead poisoning I got from it all.


Confirmed is only three months out. Until then it is only speculation, except for the summer campaign and all it's releases. GW won't be confirming the later releases until that has at least kicked off. So thus, they are all rumours.

...and another perfectly good thread degenerates into the classic Dakka screed against GW.














Not that I disagree, you understand.

[edit] Woot! 500 posts!

Matters little whether or not they were a full list or not back in 87. I have been through every incarnation and have had them in a black and red scheme ever from those early days. Stuck with the chapter through thick and thin, and generally the latest codex is the best interpretation of the chapter that there has been in my opinion.

Playing armchair company head works really well too..... we know little of what goes on behind the scenes.

It doesn't look to me as though they are in "oh crap" mode. There are a lot of releases on the horizon and they are better at controlling the rumours that are released so we hear less information. The three month window has been enforced fairly well. They seem to be doing a lot better than the few years previous on the releases.

I seem to remember Witchhunters, Daemonhunters and IG being generally lambasted as they came out. Daemonhunters are horrible, with Witchhunters coming at a close second. IG was totally thrashed when it came out, and was full of holes and errors. None were seen as very competitive. You can repaint history how you like though...

Still a lot of excitement about DA around these parts. Mostly the people that got the wet towel are the Deathwing and Ravenwing forces, which weren't exactly a viable force in the first place.

If you haven't seen a lot of change in the last 6 months, you haven't been looking much. The quality of what GW has put out has improved quite drastically. The Wraithlord, War Walkers, Empire troops and Dark Angel sprues are amazing and seem to be well received. A few FAQs have been released, and some decent army books (even though I know you disagree on that point). They are having money problems, but that is usual. I don't think they have ever really been on that solid of footing. It is the gaming industry after all.

And on a side note. I have nothing against Chambers and Haines. They were nice guys and good gamers. You can definately see different trains of thought in all the products released under different developers releases though.

Posted By Hellfury on 03/20/2007 3:08 PM
I love how everyone is suddenly a old school player since RT days.
I wonder if 90% of the people who say that arent outright liars. But, I  am severely digressing....

I've been playing Dark Angels since you were pushing people off roofs, pilgrim.

You want old school?  Aristotle all up in this b!tch.

 

Actually, that's a lie.  I played Blood Angels.  I are emo. [cuts]

I've been playing DA for more than a decade now (I've had this name on Dakka since right after we switched from EZ Board). I'm not happy with the new Codex, but I can ignore it and field my army with SM rules. No biggie.

A few years back I debated making an RW force - didn't because it was too pricey. I'm glad for that now.

I was here when DH came out. People were very positive about them. They knew GK couldn't compete as a stand-alone army, but people marvelled over the models and how to best use them. I'm not sure who's repainting history.

The trouble with IG isn't that it can't win - just that 90% of the traits can't - and those that are good you see in every single army (Iron Discipline, Close Order Drill, Drop Troops). I think GW will fix this somewhat in the next IG book though.

I liked the Empire and O&G books (I play both armies). Again, you already know my feelings on DA - but at least it's 'optional'.

I think there are major moves planned with GW in the near future in terms of corporate structure, but I don't think anyone outside of senior management knows for sure.

I won't disagree with you about the models for both Daemonhunters and Witchhunters. Few liked the rules when they came out though.But who hasn't picked up a Grey Knight termie or two....

And I think one of the issues with the new DA is because of playstyle. I think the new list only rewards a certain playstyle, and that is where the two camps differ. Some people like it, some don't. I don't disparage them for it. It took me awhile playing Menoth to figure out it just didn't work for how I play. I bought and sold two Menoth armies learning that. Good thing for Ebay. I just had to find a suitable army.

Traits and Doctrines are great concepts, but they just weren't balanced, or maybe thought out well enough.

Empire, O&G, Eldar and DA have been good books in my opinion. But I don't play O&G so can't really make a good judgement there.

Have to agree that the last couple of releases for 40k have been underwhelming despite some nice sculpts.

Jervis seems to be incapable of writing a competative list and needs to be kept locked away in the fluff mines. DW + RW combo armies are one trick ponies and will have people bored to tears very soon.


I'm despeartely trying to rekindle interest in 40k but I just can't find anything that interests me. Vehicles are death traps and most games are decided by who gets to go first.

Suprisingly WHFB is going great guns here in Australia, has well written rules, excellent plastics and very competative, well rounded lists where close to every unit is acctually worth taking in the last few army books.

The 40k team needs to have a good look at what WHFB is doing right and jump on the bandwagon.

Posted By Asmodai on 03/20/2007 6:26 PM
The trouble with IG isn't that it can't win - just that 90% of the traits can't - and those that are good you see in every single army (Iron Discipline, Close Order Drill, Drop Troops). I think GW will fix this somewhat in the next IG book though.

They'll fix it alright - when they scrap the doctrine system.

I usually don't post much on here, but I have to wonder why most of you bother posting at all?!?All I ever see on here is bashing of the game/company.

I've been involved in this 'HOBBY' since 1987, and although it has taken some ups and downs (and trust me, I've seen quite a few), I still enjoy not only playing the 'GAME', but also collecting and painting the models.

Do I care that the price has gone up? Yep, I sure do! But I remember buying gas, when I was in high school, for $.29 /gallon, also. Last time I filled up the gas tank, it was quite a bit more expensive ($2.50+/gallon !!)! That, boys & girls, is called 'INFLATION' and there really isn't a lot any of us can do about it. Prices go up for everyone. When it costs them more to make/ship/develope something, they pass that cost on to us. Do any of you honestly think that they are in this business because they want all of us to play with little army guys on a big table?!? They are in this business to make money and since they have been doing it for more than 2 decades, I'd say they are doing a good job, at least as far as that goes (and I don't want to hear about stock reports or values, it really doesn't matter to most of us)!

Now, has GW screwed up? Yep. They got to big for thier britches & forgot how to make the people who buy thier products happy little campers (that's what happens when you start small and end up being SUPER successful). I would venture a guess that the brass at GW doesn't play the games that they sell, otherwise, they'd realize that the magority of gamers can't afford to drop $300 on a new army or even $100+ to upgrade/modify an existing army to fit the newest codex.

Do I have a solution? Nope, but I hope they come up with one. I'd really like to see my kids playing & collecting the same game I've gotten so much pleasure out of for the last 20 years.

Here's my idea, instead of complaining constantly about the state of the GW empire, why don't we, the hobbyists, get together and offer them some solid suggestions on fixing the problems, instead of complaining constantly? Just my $.02...........

So nobody thinks AT-43 is causing any re-thinks over at GW eh?

"That, boys & girls, is called 'INFLATION' and there really isn't a lot any of us can do about it."

Compare GW price rises to the rate of inflation over the last ten years. Inflation is *not* a major part of GW price rises. Gas prices are also far more volatile than the normal consumer rate of inflation and made a bad comparison.

"They are in this business to make money and since they have been doing it for more than 2 decades, I'd say they are doing a good job, at least as far as that goes (and I don't want to hear about stock reports or values, it really doesn't matter to most of us)!"

If not profitability, what do you use as the criteria for 'making money'? If GW's stock collapses, then whether you say they're doing a good job or not, there won't be a company to produce the game (or, more likely, it'll be bought out by Hasbro and 40K will switch to the Clix system).

You're also a bit overly cynical. There are better ways to make money than the miniatures wargames industry and GW isn't really a monolithic company. Many of their employees could make more money in other fields. It's not far to say that an enjoyment of the game isn't a major part of GW's corporate mindset.

"they'd realize that the magority of gamers can't afford to drop $300 on a new army"

Actually, I think most GW players can, and have spent that. My IG army cost way more than $300 (around double that actually).

"Here's my idea, instead of complaining constantly about the state of the GW empire, why don't we, the hobbyists, get together and offer them some solid suggestions on fixing the problems, instead of complaining constantly? Just my $.02..........."

People have offered suggestions. Quite helpful ones too. There's dozens of threads on this board alone full of them.

Here's the paradox. You can't offer suggestions without criticizing. To offer a suggestion to fix what's broken, first you have to accept that it's broken.


I really enjoy playing, collecting and painting GW games. I have no intention of stopping doing so - although I'm not collecting as much as I used to. (Which is 50% price and 50% having a two year or longer backlog of unpainted models).

I'm not going to close my eyes though and drink the Kool-Aid. If I see something I don't like (or something I like for that matter), I'll comment on it. You're free to care or not care as much as suits you.

I love how everyone is suddenly a old school player since RT days.

I have been playing DA since Ezekiel was in the Scout Company. Back then we all just called him "Zeke". He was a Godzilla Tyranid player, that cheesy git!