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dietrich wrote:

Kilkrazy wrote:Maybe Americans are just rubbish at government.

That could well be. There's a Friends episode, where Joey is describing his family, "The Tribianies aren't great leaders, or thinkers. And we don't run real fast. But, we can eat!" That's America.

Yet we somehow decided to be the world's police force and invented the internet, atomic power, assembly lines, ended both world wars, and invented the waffle cone.

Don't forget Chicago style pizza.

World's police force -- copied from Britain.
Teh Internet -- Key technologies invented by Britain.
Atomic Power -- Mostly British work.
Assembly Lines -- Adam Smith (British)
World Wars -- stepped in to help once Britain and the Soviets had done the hard bits.
Waffle Cone -- I cone argue with that one. It sounds waffly interesting.

There's a reason it's called Great Britain, you know!!!

NASA spent millions to develope a pen that would write in zero gravity,

Except they didn't. This is a hoary old internet myth.

snopes article

Kilkrazy wrote:World's police force -- copied from Britain.-yep
Teh Internet -- Key technologies invented by Britain. yea but we did it.
Atomic Power -- Mostly British work. BS we did it. Actually mostly German work...
Assembly Lines -- Adam Smith (British) Smith was a theorist. Ford made gazillions.
World Wars -- stepped in to help once Britain and the Soviets had done the hard bits. Yes, like how you kicked the crap out of the Japanese right? Germans didn't give up until WE entered WWI. I'll give you Soviets but your big victory in WWII to date was beating Rommel in a battle before we came along...
Waffle Cone -- I cone argue with that one. It sounds waffly interesting. Good one! Note the key purpose of waffle cones is as an ice cream delivery system yea baby yea baby!
There's a reason it's called Great Britain, you know!!!Because "Land of Oi! You there!" was taken?

Come on English, you did 5,000 things, no need to try to go after every bit. There's enough for both.

Should be renamed the Britain formerly known as Great...

After all, america pulled its fair share. Seeing as though only Germany, Russia, Japan, and Yugoslavia lost more soldiers than the US. Sure UK lost more civilians but you were in the direct path of the nazi war machine while we were out of the way and not wanting to fight.

Lets be nice Halo, country bashing by any party is not needed.

Personally I think Royal Brittania works better though. It sounds even more formal and empiresque.

OK fine. England does have some good things, like Monty Python and Simon Pegg, and I guess Warhammer is good too.

Frazzled wrote:Blackwater's actually a good deal cheaper for what it does.

What has US government run well? Yep you can name examples of bad US companies but no one can ever provide examples of well run US government entities.
-Post Office
-military procurement
-nonmilitary procurement
-Amtrak
-NASA

But I'm sure you'd be able to present a lot of cases of private companies running public utilities with great success and public applaud. Or possibly running a utility is pretty much a guarantee that people are going to be pissed at you.



Meanwhile, you keep saying that govt run healthcare would cost so much more. Which is great, arbitrage and invisible hands and all the rest, hooray for Adam Smith. Except that the efficiencies of the private sector only kick in when you have a competitive market where the end consumer can directly choose his preferred vendor. Which you really, really don't have. So you miss the advantages while still getting all the problems of a private system. And it's the big reason admin costs in the US system are more than anywhere else in the world.

Don't believe me?
The New England Journal of Medicine http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/short/349/8/768
"In 1999, health administration costs totaled at least $294.3 billion in the United States, or $1,059 per capita, as compared with $307 per capita in Canada."
"administration accounted for 31.0 percent of health care expenditures in the United States and 16.7 percent of health care expenditures in Canada"

The New York Times http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/11/21/why-does-us-health-care-cost-so-much-part-ii-indefensible-administrative-costs/
"One thing Americans do buy with this extra spending is an administrative overhead load that is huge by international standards. The McKinsey Global Institute estimated that excess spending on “health administration and insurance” accounted for as much as 21 percent of the estimated total excess spending ($477 billion in 2003). Brought forward, that 21 percent of excess spending on administration would amount to about $120 billion in 2006 and about $150 billion in 2008. It would have been more than enough to finance universal health insurance this year."
"The McKinsey team estimated that about 85 percent of this excess administrative overhead can be attributed to the highly complex private health insurance system in the United States. Product design, underwriting and marketing account for about two-thirds of that total."

The Commonwealth Fund http://www.commonwealthfund.org/Content/Publications/Fund-Reports/2008/Jul/Why-Not-the-Best--Results-from-the-National-Scorecard-on-U-S--Health-System-Performance--2008.aspx
"Inappropriate, wasteful, or fragmented care: In 2007, as in 2005, U.S. patients were much more likely—three to four times the benchmark rate—than patients in other countries to report having had duplicate tests or that medical records or test results were not available at the time of their appointment."
"Administrative costs: U.S. health insurance administrative costs as a share of total health spending are 30 percent to 70 percent higher than in countries with mixed private/public insurance systems and three times higher than in countries with the lowest rates."



So you can go with what's true, or you can go with the theory of 'wooho private is more efficient'. It's up to you.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

dietrich wrote:It depends what and why they're suing. If a private firm had designed the New Orleans levee system, they'd been sued off the planet. Because the Corps of Engineers did it, they haven't been.

Because people can't sue government? The hell? I think you'll find its more to do with specifically constructed public liability (because if any body became liable for the destruction of a city then no organisation could risk undertaking the work, not even a government). It has nothing to do with government being unable to be sued.

halonachos wrote:But the US government is well, stupid. NASA spent millions to develope a pen that would write in zero gravity, the russian space program used a pencil. We like to be high tech, not simple.

Except that story is false and was discredited decades ago. In early manned missions both NASA and the Russians used pencils. Unfortunately there were a lot of problems with using pencils, as leads would snap and threaten to lodge themselves in the fragile equipment. So, Paul Fischer, an inventor enthused with space flight, spent his own time and money to develop a pen that would work in space. He gave it to the American space program for free, and later the Russians as well.

halonachos wrote:OK fine. England does have some good things, like Monty Python and Simon Pegg, and I guess Warhammer is good too.

Don't forget Britain invented the USA.

Britain invented the colonies which americans later took to make america.

Frazzled wrote:Blackwater's actually a good deal cheaper for what it does.

Blackwater only looks cheap on paper. When considering time on deployment PMC troops cost more per day than any other type of soldier as they not only earn more money, but utilize the logistical train which is paid for entirely by the defense department. The only savings originate in the absence of a standing outlay, which itself can be discounted because any employee of Blackwater is likely to have received his training during a stint in the services. Its actually a great example of how the private sector can artificially increase costs.

halonachos wrote:Britain invented the colonies which americans later took to make america.

Yeah, with the help of the French if I recall (my American history is almost non-existant as we have way more history to learn over here )

You don't invent colonies you settle them. I'm also not sure Britain take credit for every colony settled in North America. Wait, I am sure.

Ahtman wrote: I'm also not sure Britain take credit for every colony settled in North America.

Happy to try though.

Fallen668 wrote:

Frazzled wrote:

But thats not how it currently is in the US. If you're working full time legally you pretty much have insurance. If you're not you have medicaid.

That is so not true. I don't... I work on average 50 Hours a week for the county in the court system and I DO NOT have health insurance. The last two people chronologically in my office do not get ANY benefits. Conveniently though the person who is under me is a retiree from the sheriff's department, so he retained his Insurance as a retirement perk. So... I am the ONLY employee in my office who does not get health care. I am desperately waiting for someone who is above me to leave in whatever means necessary, be it quitting, getting fired or just out right dieing. Quite honestly... I can not tell you how happy I wold be if I came to work and heard that one of those three outcomes had happened to anyone there above me.

The irony of a government worker complaining about not having private insurance is ironical.

Even Alanis Morisette thinks that's unfortunate.

At least she's not here to remind us of the mess we made when we went away.

Frazzled wrote:At least she's not here to remind us of the mess we made when we went away.

It was tidy when I left, that must have been you leaving your raincoat out (did you have to wear that for her wedding?). She was out of knives so I topped up the drawer with extra spoons, I bet she'll have a problem about that too.

Well, england may take credit for the colonies(at least everything besides florida on the eastern coast), but look at the proper mess you gits made. I mean you left us with poor healthcare and economic instability. I thought you english would have better manners than that.

halonachos wrote:Well, england may take credit for the colonies(at least everything besides florida on the eastern coast), but look at the proper mess you gits made. I mean you left us with poor healthcare and economic instability. I thought you english would have better manners than that.

And the Louisiana Territories, and the territories owned by Spain, and the territories controlled by the Czar of all the Russias.

You want to blame england for those as well?

No just noting only a small portion of the US started as the 13 Colonies.

Shhh, ixnay on the originalay thirteenay coloniesay. They don't know that they only foundeday the easternay coastay.

We were too busy playing flags over the rest of the world with the French, Germans, Dutch and Russians to think much of smelly old America

And its that elitist attitude that made us break up our relationship with you. You never called, and when you did you were only asking for money. I mean, what were we to you, just some tool for economic benefit?

What do you expect when you kick us out of our own colony and throw all our tea into the sea?

And where were we when we really needed you, eh? Out the back with your fingers in your ears!

So we had to do it ourselves twice, before you eventually turned up and claimed all the glory.

All we wanted was what was best for you, but no! You had to know better! You had to go out into the world before you were ready, and now look at you!

Swaggering around the world like you own the place while at home your poor starve and are unable to get healthcare, your cars get 0.000001/mpg and where the idea of experiencing another culture is to order a Chinese

Does the British NHS cover dental visits as well?

It covers most of the cost, yes. There is a £16 pound charge per check up (if you are over 19 and out of full time education).

Then there are small costs for other treatments though you can have a read for yourself:

http://www.nhs.uk/chq/Pages/1781.aspx?CategoryID=74&SubCategoryID=74

There are quite a lot of ways to be eligable for free treatment though.