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Oh how I hate all the twilight jokes... it is OLD, people have been doing it since we knew BA were coming out, it is lame to still do it

Demogerg wrote:

Therion wrote:

Fetterkey wrote:There is no "overall best army" currently.

I'm afraid if you force every competitive 40K player to declare what he thinks is the overall strongest army in today's metagame, 9 out of 10 will answer IG, whether you like it or not.

I would say Orks are the overall strongest army.
cheap effective troops for scoring and killing most units.
cheap AV14 with the best anti tank non-weapon in the game for busting land raiders and "getting there"
Lootas for eating light/medium transports
Gazzy the roflstomper for killing enemy HQ/deathstars.
Big Mek KFF for a 4+ save on the armies' AV14 make them the toughest vehicles in the game vs static gunlines.

My vote would have to go to the IG Air cav i think that is a great army can avoid if need be and can rush when required. The whole army of 60 vets are scoring and are in fast, Av 12 vech's that have alot of Fire power to wreck alot of armies. The unit of 10 vets can have 3 plasma's, melta's, the works (even a 5 inch plate). Then on top of that they have the scout rule for their transports. But it can be beaten as all armies can just has a real short learning curve to do work with the air cav.

But its SOOOOO fun if your not a BA player

Not sure that meph would care about a 17 yr old girl i think a little boy would do better. Meph is just to Chuck Norris to be a woman lover .

FoeHammer wrote:

Demogerg wrote:

Therion wrote:

Fetterkey wrote:There is no "overall best army" currently.

I'm afraid if you force every competitive 40K player to declare what he thinks is the overall strongest army in today's metagame, 9 out of 10 will answer IG, whether you like it or not.

I would say Orks are the overall strongest army.
cheap effective troops for scoring and killing most units.
cheap AV14 with the best anti tank non-weapon in the game for busting land raiders and "getting there"
Lootas for eating light/medium transports
Gazzy the roflstomper for killing enemy HQ/deathstars.
Big Mek KFF for a 4+ save on the armies' AV14 make them the toughest vehicles in the game vs static gunlines.

My vote would have to go to the IG Air cav i think that is a great army can avoid if need be and can rush when required. The whole army of 60 vets are scoring and are in fast, Av 12 vech's that have alot of Fire power to wreck alot of armies. The unit of 10 vets can have 3 plasma's, melta's, the works (even a 5 inch plate). Then on top of that they have the scout rule for their transports. But it can be beaten as all armies can just has a real short learning curve to do work with the air cav.

And can lose half of their army to immobilised results as well as wrecked and destroyed. I agree with Demogerg that Orks are very strong. I don't know if there's a "strongest" army right now - but I certainly wouldn't say that "9 out of 10 gamers would agree that it's IG". That's a farce and completely fabricated.

FoeHammer wrote:
My vote would have to go to the IG Air cav i think that is a great army can avoid if need be and can rush when required. The whole army of 60 vets are scoring and are in fast, Av 12 vech's that have alot of Fire power to wreck alot of armies. The unit of 10 vets can have 3 plasma's, melta's, the works (even a 5 inch plate). Then on top of that they have the scout rule for their transports. But it can be beaten as all armies can just has a real short learning curve to do work with the air cav.

Aircav has a couple of huge issues. Valks come in squadrons after the first 3, valks are gigantic models (big issue, with 6, space becomes your biggest issue) and the army is pretty fragile

I think Orks is the strongest army, but all armies from DoC have been very cool and well balanced. Eldar, DE, WH and CSM can still compete at the same level, just with more boring codexes (eldar one is pretty decent though). IMO, only necrons, GK's and Tau are a bit behind on the powerlevel, and they can still compete with a good general.

puma713 wrote:

FoeHammer wrote:

Demogerg wrote:

Therion wrote:

Fetterkey wrote:There is no "overall best army" currently.

I'm afraid if you force every competitive 40K player to declare what he thinks is the overall strongest army in today's metagame, 9 out of 10 will answer IG, whether you like it or not.

I would say Orks are the overall strongest army.
cheap effective troops for scoring and killing most units.
cheap AV14 with the best anti tank non-weapon in the game for busting land raiders and "getting there"
Lootas for eating light/medium transports
Gazzy the roflstomper for killing enemy HQ/deathstars.
Big Mek KFF for a 4+ save on the armies' AV14 make them the toughest vehicles in the game vs static gunlines.

My vote would have to go to the IG Air cav i think that is a great army can avoid if need be and can rush when required. The whole army of 60 vets are scoring and are in fast, Av 12 vech's that have alot of Fire power to wreck alot of armies. The unit of 10 vets can have 3 plasma's, melta's, the works (even a 5 inch plate). Then on top of that they have the scout rule for their transports. But it can be beaten as all armies can just has a real short learning curve to do work with the air cav.

And can lose half of their army to immobilised results as well as wrecked and destroyed. I agree with Demogerg that Orks are very strong. I don't know if there's a "strongest" army right now - but I certainly wouldn't say that "9 out of 10 gamers would agree that it's IG". That's a farce and completely fabricated.

Any army with that much firepower to kill 4-5 Av12 vechs that fast will be dropped on. Fighting air cav is alot different on table then paper. The squadrons only hamper it really. But they drop off so many troops so fast that you have to start splitting shots. Trust me on this that army is slowed good. Then you have the psycher squad to deal with, which is a whole new pain in the ass.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Illumini wrote:

FoeHammer wrote:
My vote would have to go to the IG Air cav i think that is a great army can avoid if need be and can rush when required. The whole army of 60 vets are scoring and are in fast, Av 12 vech's that have alot of Fire power to wreck alot of armies. The unit of 10 vets can have 3 plasma's, melta's, the works (even a 5 inch plate). Then on top of that they have the scout rule for their transports. But it can be beaten as all armies can just has a real short learning curve to do work with the air cav.

Aircav has a couple of huge issues. Valks come in squadrons after the first 3, valks are gigantic models (big issue, with 6, space becomes your biggest issue) and the army is pretty fragile

I think Orks is the strongest army, but all armies from DoC have been very cool and well balanced. Eldar, DE, WH and CSM can still compete at the same level, just with more boring codexes (eldar one is pretty decent though). IMO, only necrons, GK's and Tau are a bit behind on the powerlevel, and they can still compete with a good general.

You can fit all 9 on the table ive seen it done. and they scout so being close isnt a issue.

FoeHammer wrote:

puma713 wrote:

FoeHammer wrote:

Demogerg wrote:

Therion wrote:

Fetterkey wrote:There is no "overall best army" currently.

I'm afraid if you force every competitive 40K player to declare what he thinks is the overall strongest army in today's metagame, 9 out of 10 will answer IG, whether you like it or not.

I would say Orks are the overall strongest army.
cheap effective troops for scoring and killing most units.
cheap AV14 with the best anti tank non-weapon in the game for busting land raiders and "getting there"
Lootas for eating light/medium transports
Gazzy the roflstomper for killing enemy HQ/deathstars.
Big Mek KFF for a 4+ save on the armies' AV14 make them the toughest vehicles in the game vs static gunlines.

My vote would have to go to the IG Air cav i think that is a great army can avoid if need be and can rush when required. The whole army of 60 vets are scoring and are in fast, Av 12 vech's that have alot of Fire power to wreck alot of armies. The unit of 10 vets can have 3 plasma's, melta's, the works (even a 5 inch plate). Then on top of that they have the scout rule for their transports. But it can be beaten as all armies can just has a real short learning curve to do work with the air cav.

And can lose half of their army to immobilised results as well as wrecked and destroyed. I agree with Demogerg that Orks are very strong. I don't know if there's a "strongest" army right now - but I certainly wouldn't say that "9 out of 10 gamers would agree that it's IG". That's a farce and completely fabricated.

Any army with that firepower to kill 4-5 Av12 that fast will be dropped on. Fighting air cav its alot different on table then paper. The squadrons only hamper it really. But they drop off so many troops so fast that you have to start splitting shots. Trust me on this that army is slowed good. Then you have the psycher squad to deal with which is a whole new thing pain in the ass.

Yes, I've played against it. And I lost. It was a learning experience, but it also wasn't as easy as you're making it out to sound. Being in squadrons hampers it, yes. And the low BS doesn't help either, regardless if their weapons are twin-linked. He hurt me in the first turn by focus-firing all of his weaponry on my AV14 tank, but it could have swung either way.

FoeHammer wrote:Automatically Appended Next Post:

Illumini wrote:

FoeHammer wrote:
My vote would have to go to the IG Air cav i think that is a great army can avoid if need be and can rush when required. The whole army of 60 vets are scoring and are in fast, Av 12 vech's that have alot of Fire power to wreck alot of armies. The unit of 10 vets can have 3 plasma's, melta's, the works (even a 5 inch plate). Then on top of that they have the scout rule for their transports. But it can be beaten as all armies can just has a real short learning curve to do work with the air cav.

Aircav has a couple of huge issues. Valks come in squadrons after the first 3, valks are gigantic models (big issue, with 6, space becomes your biggest issue) and the army is pretty fragile

I think Orks is the strongest army, but all armies from DoC have been very cool and well balanced. Eldar, DE, WH and CSM can still compete at the same level, just with more boring codexes (eldar one is pretty decent though). IMO, only necrons, GK's and Tau are a bit behind on the powerlevel, and they can still compete with a good general.

You can fit all 9 on the table ive seen it done. and they scout so being close isnt a issue.

Again, this isn't entirely true. In the game I mentioned above, his first big challenge was deployment. He could barely fit his Air Cav on the board.

Now, please understand that I am not disagreeing with you. Not entirely. I think Air Cav is a good list. In fact, it can be so good that people look upon it with the same disdain that they do Dual-Lash, Dual-StarGod, 6 LR lists. However, the end-all be-all it is not.

Yes, I've played against it. And I lost. It was a learning experience, but it also wasn't as easy as you're making it out to sound. Being in squadrons hampers it, yes. And the low BS doesn't help either, regardless if their weapons are twin-linked. He hurt me in the first turn by focus-firing all of his weaponry on my AV14 tank, but it could have swung either way.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Again, this isn't entirely true. In the game I mentioned above, his first big challenge was deployment. He could barely fit his Air Cav on the board.

Now, please understand that I am not disagreeing with you. Not entirely. I think Air Cav is a good list. In fact, it can be so good that people look upon it with the same disdain that they do Dual-Lash, Dual-StarGod, 6 LR lists. However, the end-all be-all it is not.

Ok well Twin-Linked Bs 3 gives it a 75% chance to hit Bs 4 has a 67% chance to hit about. Makes a big diff imho. The 2 times i played the list he just basically lined them up it was a tight deployment true, but after the scout moves before the game started it let him pretty much avoid any real blast threats and to better position himself. I never said it was unbeatable but at the current moment its the best list imo has alot of power and a small learning curve anyone with some knowledge of the game and tactics can put the hurt on most people.

FoeHammer wrote:

Yes, I've played against it. And I lost. It was a learning experience, but it also wasn't as easy as you're making it out to sound. Being in squadrons hampers it, yes. And the low BS doesn't help either, regardless if their weapons are twin-linked. He hurt me in the first turn by focus-firing all of his weaponry on my AV14 tank, but it could have swung either way.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Again, this isn't entirely true. In the game I mentioned above, his first big challenge was deployment. He could barely fit his Air Cav on the board.

Now, please understand that I am not disagreeing with you. Not entirely. I think Air Cav is a good list. In fact, it can be so good that people look upon it with the same disdain that they do Dual-Lash, Dual-StarGod, 6 LR lists. However, the end-all be-all it is not.

Ok well Twin-Linked Bs 3 gives it a 75% chance to hit Bs 4 has a 67% chance to hit about. Makes a big diff imho. The 2 times i played the list he just basically lined them up it was a tight deployment true, but after the scout moves before the game started it let him pretty much avoid any real blast threats and to better position himself. I never said it was unbeatable but at the current moment its the best list imo has alot of power and a small learning curve anyone with some knowledge of the game and tactics can put the hurt on most people.

Well, we'll just have to agree to disagree.

I agree

gogo thread derailment into IG and the metagame

NOOOO more BA talk!

Grey Templar wrote:especially if the dred is a furioso librarian. that thing has an 18" threat range if it takes Wings

Dreads can't take that particular power, IIRC from perusing the codex. That would be stupid, lol.

Therion wrote:I think when someone brings ~12 AV13+ vehicles to the table, noone will have enough 'melta and lance weapons'.

They have side armor 11, and rear armor 10, and are just dying to get closer to you. They are also quite expensive, so you can't field them in the same numbers as IG chimeras.

Seriously people, stop freaking out. I abandoned Warseer and came here because I thought the folks here weren't as prone to histrionics and gaking their pants every time a new rumor comes out. This type of cowardice is sickening. And yes, oooh, IG are sooo uber ultra competitive, that's why they are winning every tournament... or wait, the average mech list has well over 20+ KPs, never mind. IG are good, but there is no best army. If someone is using that as an excuse for losing, that's all it is, an excuse.

And Air Cav is probably one of the weaker builds. You're putting a bunch of guardsmen in rapid fire range, out into the open, and are bringing your skimmers into melta range while squadrons make them easier to destroy. Yeah...

It doesnt have wings but that doesnt mean its useless!

No one said it's useless. It is still a total monster in close combat and tossing that Blood Lance out after a deep strike can cause no small amount of pain.

My DH inquisitor with hood is fast becoming an auto-include in my IG lists.

@terminus:
You are going to find some people that overreact in any forum, and I'm sure a large population of people like to bitch and moan about stuff.

I think the FAST vehicles are not just to get closer to the opponent.
That would be a yes for rhinos and stuff in transports that have stuff that do. But vehicles with FAST can me a whole lot of mobile offensive fire power that can try to get side armor shots and such...and the speed of movement can be used defensively.

So, being a fast vehicle has so many perks, it's not just about getting close to the opponent.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
What I'm interested in is Fast Razorbacks...sort of spammable with mobile and effective weapon options.

yeah one thing im worried about are these fastt vehicles; and dred librarians, do null fields work on them for cover saves then? how would you treat a perils?

IronfrontAlex wrote:yeah one thing im worried about are these fastt vehicles; and dred librarians, do null fields work on them for cover saves then? how would you treat a perils?

A dread librarian would be easier to kill I would think since they won't be in a unit...just a tank with psyker powers.

agnosto wrote:

IronfrontAlex wrote:yeah one thing im worried about are these fastt vehicles; and dred librarians, do null fields work on them for cover saves then? how would you treat a perils?

A dread librarian would be easier to kill I would think since they won't be in a unit...just a tank with psyker powers.

im not too worried about a tank with psi powers, a walker with 2 DCCW would be pretty nasty tho, remember walkers are not like tanks only similarity is armor value.

I can see a Dreadnought Librarian all decked out with Epistolary-level power, good weapons loadout on the Dread body, and Pod delivery system turning into a 300+ point investment, assuming costs are relatively in line with C:SM.

If they give it access to Wings of Sanguinus, we are all screwed, including you Tau folks. A homicidal flying psychic killing machine...

IronfrontAlex wrote:
im not too worried about a tank with psi powers, a walker with 2 DCCW would be pretty nasty tho, remember walkers are not like tanks only similarity is armor value.

I play Tau and I'm not even a particularly good player but I have never had a dread get into close combat with me. I'm more worried about the fast assault troops than vehicles or dreads.

agnosto wrote:

IronfrontAlex wrote:
im not too worried about a tank with psi powers, a walker with 2 DCCW would be pretty nasty tho, remember walkers are not like tanks only similarity is armor value.

I play Tau and I'm not even a particularly good player but I have never had a dread get into close combat with me. I'm more worried about the fast assault troops than vehicles or dreads.

which I am not 100% concerned about :p


different armies, different weaknesses

IronfrontAlex wrote:

agnosto wrote:

IronfrontAlex wrote:
im not too worried about a tank with psi powers, a walker with 2 DCCW would be pretty nasty tho, remember walkers are not like tanks only similarity is armor value.

I play Tau and I'm not even a particularly good player but I have never had a dread get into close combat with me. I'm more worried about the fast assault troops than vehicles or dreads.

which I am not 100% concerned about :p


different armies, different weaknesses

Yep. Tell you what, loan me some of your assault units and I'll loan you a couple of units of broadsides.

agnosto wrote:

IronfrontAlex wrote:
im not too worried about a tank with psi powers, a walker with 2 DCCW would be pretty nasty tho, remember walkers are not like tanks only similarity is armor value.

I play Tau and I'm not even a particularly good player but I have never had a dread get into close combat with me. I'm more worried about the fast assault troops than vehicles or dreads.

What about flying Dreadnought assault troops?

GeneralRetreat wrote:

agnosto wrote:

IronfrontAlex wrote:
im not too worried about a tank with psi powers, a walker with 2 DCCW would be pretty nasty tho, remember walkers are not like tanks only similarity is armor value.

I play Tau and I'm not even a particularly good player but I have never had a dread get into close combat with me. I'm more worried about the fast assault troops than vehicles or dreads.

What about flying Dreadnought assault troops?

I'll still, more than likely, get a round of shooting on them before they reach me. Broadsides are fairly inexpensive and hammerheads are fairly mobile platforms for railguns.

We all know how weak tau are but we've got one thing we can do well and it's pop hard targets.

in case you guyz didn't notice, i know this is off topic, but anyways, the new blood angles are availabe for advance order

agnosto wrote:

IronfrontAlex wrote:

agnosto wrote:

IronfrontAlex wrote:
im not too worried about a tank with psi powers, a walker with 2 DCCW would be pretty nasty tho, remember walkers are not like tanks only similarity is armor value.

I play Tau and I'm not even a particularly good player but I have never had a dread get into close combat with me. I'm more worried about the fast assault troops than vehicles or dreads.

which I am not 100% concerned about :p


different armies, different weaknesses

Yep. Tell you what, loan me some of your assault units and I'll loan you a couple of units of broadsides.

DEAL i have NO S10 weapons in my intire army.... i can loan some berzerks

you might need to use the broadsides and the devilfish hit and run tactic

IronfrontAlex wrote:

DEAL i have NO S10 weapons in my intire army.... i can loan some berzerks

you might need to use the broadsides and the devilfish hit and run tactic

Now that would be a deal. I have a friend who plays a huge nurgal army; now you've got me thinking about teaming up with him at a team tournament; it'd be a lethal combination.
"You run out there and I'll blow up their tanks."

agnosto wrote:

IronfrontAlex wrote:

DEAL i have NO S10 weapons in my intire army.... i can loan some berzerks

you might need to use the broadsides and the devilfish hit and run tactic

Now that would be a deal. I have a friend who plays a huge nurgal army; now you've got me thinking about teaming up with him at a team tournament; it'd be a lethal combination.
"You run out there and I'll blow up their tanks."

well plague marines tie up combat very well but i wouldn't say they are the most killy. in doubles ask your buddy to take possibly a LR or rhino filled with berzerkers that would help too. maybe some meltabikes, nurgle meltabikes!