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@SV2.7

I didn't know about it in time to play to be honest. I could wish that major TO's from the major gaming areas (WestCoast, Chicago/Midwest, Texas/Southeast, and Northeast) would get together and figure out a way to create a qualifier system for the team. There are some consistant TO's who run multiple or enormous GT's/Cons so it should be possible.

@Njpc

To be honest the UK fields 4 teams. Texas and California were their own nations before becoming part of the United States. To be fair they have pretty much the same control over themselves as Wales/Scotland/North Ireland, possibly more. But also getting 16 guys who want to fly to Europe to play with little toy soldiers probably wouldn't be easy either

The Sanguinor Version 2.7 wrote:@ Hulksmash

If you had come to Adepticon this year you would have had the opportunity to qualify for the team.

Wow, one tournament who's FAQ basically makes it Adeptihammer 40k = the only chance to qualify?

Yeah, that makes perfect sense.

Hulk, the invitation to join Team Canada next year is still open. We have real beer and are still a member of Her Majesty's Glorious Monarchy

Hulksmash wrote:@SV2.7

I didn't know about it in time to play to be honest. I could wish that major TO's from the major gaming areas (WestCoast, Chicago/Midwest, Texas/Southeast, and Northeast) would get together and figure out a way to create a qualifier system for the team. There are some consistant TO's who run multiple or enormous GT's/Cons so it should be possible.

@Njpc

To be honest the UK fields 4 teams. Texas and California were their own nations before becoming part of the United States. To be fair they have pretty much the same control over themselves as Wales/Scotland/North Ireland, possibly more. But also getting 16 guys who want to fly to Europe to play with little toy soldiers probably wouldn't be easy either

My understanding of what they use to set the teams was "whatever the UEFA confederation allows in UEFA" when they started allowing none UEFA nations in they stuck with the same idea and opened things up to all members of the 6 confederations as set by FIFA. Wiki link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FIFA

There have been numerous requests for multiple teams from the same nation all met with a solid "no". So people tried to enter via loop holes, e.g. Faroe Islands, this year people even wanted to makle a Team Vatican City because the Italian team was full. So, they do have reason(s) for rejecting multiple teams from the same nation, you'll have to counter that, whatever it is, and then somehow secure the number of slots you want for your nation before they over fill on multiples of European teams (not likely).

I was curious if the game is played in inches over there in Europe. They have the metric system, do 40k players in Europe have to learn inches just to play the game? If it is in cm do they roll a D6 and multiply by 2.54 to get the cm of a run or consolidation move?? Were the Americans forced to play with 100 cm range missile launchers? I am just curious on all the codex measurement translations.

Norbu the Destroyer wrote:I was curious if the game is played in inches over there in Europe. They have the metric system, do 40k players in Europe have to learn inches just to play the game? If it is in cm do they roll a D6 and multiply by 2.54 to get the cm of a run or consolidation move?? Were the Americans forced to play with 100 cm range missile launchers? I am just curious on all the codex measurement translations.

The game is in inches there. I, as a canadian, had to "learn" inches just to play also. But considering the game does not jump from feet to inches to yards there is no real learning required, they even put the IG's Death Strike Launcher as 12-960 inches . Inches is just "that" distance or a multiple there of.

Bunker wrote:
Wow, one tournament who's FAQ basically makes it Adeptihammer 40k = the only chance to qualify?

Yeah, that makes perfect sense.

Hulk, the invitation to join Team Canada next year is still open. We have real beer and are still a member of Her Majesty's Glorious Monarchy

I think the biggest hurdle to assembling a team is *not* holding a tournament to find the best players in the country, but actually finding a 'team' of people actually willing to shell out the several thousand dollar cost to attend. I think lots of people say they would be interested in attending but once they're faced with the expense of the airfare and hotel when it finally comes time to step up to the plate quite a few would be forced to bow out.

I honestly believe that if you were to just hold an independent tournament to decide who would be on the ETC you'd end up with a 'team' in which quite a few of the members would be stoked to go but then one thing or another would come up and half (or more) of the team would have to drop out due to the things that come up in life and get in the way.

Part of the reason I think the USA team was actually able to go this year was because a core group of people essentially committed to going. These were are players who were absolutely on board and were not going to drop out at the last second. However, they didn't have enough players to fill the team out so the last few spots were 'filled in' using the players playing at Adepticon, which should be an acceptable idea since Adepticon is the largest collection of 40K players in the world.

Also, it isn't like this core group of players 'stole' these spots from someone else. The ETC has been around for a bit and no US team has attended before, so the fact that some people stepped up to actually get a US team over there this year is a great thing IMHO. Obviously in following years if a whole other team of players wants to assemble and represent as the US team, then there could be an issue, but until that happens I think if the core US team is willing to keep putting up their time and money to travel then that's who are representatives are going to be even if some may not think they are absolutely the 'best' players the US has to offer.


And finally as to the idea that playing in a tournament like Adepticon that uses the INAT FAQ somehow makes those games 'Adeptihammer' instead of '40K', I'm sorry but that's a fallacy. All the questions in the INAT FAQ are questions asked by players and all the answers are reasonably based on interpretations that some (if not most) players use. If you don't personally agree with some or most of the rulings in the INAT FAQ, that's of course your prerogative, but it doesn't change the fact that there are other people out there who play with those rulings regardless of whether or not they've ever heard of the INAT FAQ or not.

The truth is, yeah you can say playing with the INAT is 'INAThammer', but that isn't any different then playing at the NOVA with their FAQ is 'NOVAhammer'. And really when you play your games at home you're playing 'Bunkerhammer' and I'm playing 'yakhammer'. The 40K rules are diverse and loosely written enough to the point where there are multiple interpretations of many, many rules and the way that you think any one ruling should be played is not necessarily going to match the way your opponent thinks it is or the tournament judge thinks it is.

And most importantly, if a player is going over to play in the ETC, they're going to play 'ETChammer', so if they're not adept enough to handle adjusting to 'INAThammer' then they really shouldn't be going over to Europe to play anyway.

@Bunker

Find 7 other guys and I'm in. The wife said if I can earn the money on painting commissions (which I can) then I can go. Just call me your American Mercenary

I have to agree with Yak that finding the number of people willing to pay that kind of money for 40k is the bigger problem. But I also think that until this first team went most people hadn't even heard of this event (myself included). I'll be interested in how it's put together for next year.

yakface wrote:
All the questions in the INAT FAQ are questions asked by players and all the answers are reasonably based on interpretations that some (if not most) players use.

Except the Tyranid and Blood Angels rulings that the INAT got wrong. Which, correct me if I'm wrong, was most of them.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Hulksmash wrote:Just call me your American Mercenar-eh

Fixed that for you

Hulksmash wrote:Find 7 other guys and I'm in. The wife said if I can earn the money on painting commissions (which I can) then I can go.

She doesn't think you can do it, or she wouldn't have OK'd it. Of course, now that the wife put it right in your face, you NEED to do this, for husbands everywhere!

I would be down, would be very much worth it. I have expressed it before but I would also be down to sponsor the team. I dont know how big a % painting is over there though. Represent AND go over seas for the first time, for Warhammer, yes please.

I just need to get out more often. Adepticon needs to be twice a year. Give my rusty butt the two chances I would need.

And the locals are all about fantasy only :(

@John

She might not think I can do it but she'll keep her word if I do so if Bunker (thanks for fixing that for me buddy ) can get 7 people from our sleepy neighbor to the north I'd be happy to join them

@GMM

You painting an army built for that would be amazing. I think there is a lot of support personally out there now that Team USA could pull in.

I'm telling you. Now that the idea is out there there will be a lot more interest. Finding a way to build a team from the US might not be as easy as picking 7 other people anymore.

Bunker wrote:

Except the Tyranid and Blood Angels rulings that the INAT got wrong. Which, correct me if I'm wrong, was most of them.

What do you mean by 'wrong' here? The goal of the INAT is to try to make rulings the way most people play, so the main criteria our ruling would be wrong is if most people don't play that way. And when that's the case, we try to identify it and get it changed with the next update of the INAT.

Now, if you're talking about 'wrong' being that our rulings didn't match what GW put out with their FAQ release, then yeah I will correct you. In both cases, of the rulings both the INAT and GW FAQs shared, there were more that matched how we ruled then the opposite...besides the fact that GW's FAQ didn't cover many of the questions and rulings we have for both codexes.

But if that's the metric you're going to by for 'right' or 'wrong' then I have to say this is a very, very difficult goal to aim for because GW's rulings veer from RAW based in some cases to completely 100% against the RAW with other rulings. The fact that we put out the INAT FAQ before their update means we put our foot forward and invariably there are going to be differences between the two because nobody knows exactly how GW is going to rule on any given subject. We all have our theories, but I'm sure no one would have predicted that GW wouldn't allow Shadow in the Warp to affect embarked units or Furioso Librarians not be able to take any equipment, etc.


At the end of the day for those who despise the INAT FAQ, there is nothing I can ever say or write that will change your opinion other than to change every ruling in the document to match your personal opinions, but the truth is and always has been that the document comes from a positive place. It was created because so many people (right here on Dakka) kept posting about how they wished someone would take the time to make a comprehensive tournament FAQ and if they did, they'd use it. So I did because I wanted to create something that might help other people if they liked it. We've never lobbied for tournaments to use it...if people find it helpful for their tournament they use it, if they don't, they don't use it...no big deal.

And even at tournaments that use the INAT, like Adepticon, no judge walks around and enforces the INAT on players who aren't willing. The only time the rulings come into play is when two players have a disagreement and call over a judge to make a ruling, and that's the whole point of the INAT...whether you agree with the ruling or not at least you know ahead of time what the ruling is going to be should a judge be called. I know for a fact at the last Adepticon we saw a couple of situations that were consistently being played differently to how we had them ruled in the INAT, but the judges were under specific orders not to intervene in people's games unless asked (which I think is typical for most tournaments). After the event was over and we were doing the next INAT update we immediately said 'hey we need to change that ruling because I think most people are definitely playing it differently then we've ruled it.' And we did! And that's the whole point...we do our best to make something that matches how most people play, but that's a tricky thing to aim for, because in some cases the split of how people play is nearly 50/50 and that means half the players are going to always think you're 'wrong' no matter which way you rule.


But anyway...sorry to get the thread off track. Yeah, I still believe that anyone who is going to play in the ETC should have no problem handling playing with the INAT because you're already going to have to deal with playing with some wacky rules, so you better be able to adapt to whatever is thrown at you.

Yeah, our local group started playing with ETC "clarrifications" for the run up, and it does make for an interesting experience.
It's well worth having a read of their rulings ahead of time, some of them are quite out of left field (from my perspective, anyhow).

I guess I could have read the rules wrong for the ETC but as I understand them. The captain of the ETC team for each country remains the captain until he or she steps down. How the team is decided is in the hands of the captain. So the US captain could decide to have a system in place that allows competition to form a team or just put together the best possible people that he knows has the will and money to travel to Europe. Personally knowing how most gamers are(and referring to an original assessment by Blackmoor in a much earlier post) I would lean toward the later and safe myself the agony of watching wishy washy gamers drop out.

Europe- uses inches for the game. UK has always used inches
Asia - uses inches also although Japan has been known to use their own measurements at time.

sabote wrote:I guess I could have read the rules wrong for the ETC but as I understand them. The captain of the ETC team for each country remains the captain until he or she steps down. How the team is decided is in the hands of the captain. So the US captain could decide to have a system in place that allows competition to form a team or just put together the best possible people that he knows has the will and money to travel to Europe. Personally knowing how most gamers are(and referring to an original assessment by Blackmoor in a much earlier post) I would lean toward the later and safe myself the agony of watching wishy washy gamers drop out.

Yup, Ben makes the call for next years team.

I expect there to be some turnover though with a few people, so we well see how that goes, but the most important thing is to have a dependable core and not have some flakes on the team.

And Hulksmash, you where wondering why the UK gets 4 teams and we get 1, where there is a lot of reasons for it but one of them is that it costs $150 to fly from the UK to Germany, and $1500 from the US.

The regional qualifier will not work because you really need to depend on at least 6 people. A lot of things happen in a year from marriage, to babies, to new relationships to financial hardships etc. If you ever tried to get a team to fly in for the Adepticon team tournament you will see how hard it is to get 4 people to commit to something like that. Most people will not drive across town for an RTT and you think there is a large pool of people who want to spend $2500 to play in Europe?

There something to be said for experience for this type of thing. In the US I relate it to the AdeptiCon team tournament. You ever have attended the team tournament you understand. The first year you go it can be too much for some people. Except for the early years I would be very surprised if a team won it the first time out.

I think Ben has already proved he can pull together a good team for this event.

and a good time was had by all



The English language nations. And the Scots.

Knowing these guys from the past several years of AdeptiCon. I'm glad to see they did well and confirmed what I already knew we got some damn fine players that can play this game with anyone.

The best players are those that are adaptable and can excel under any format. In large format events, you can really only put yourself in a position to win. It appears the US ETC team had victory within reach. Congrats boys, I'm proud of you. Might make a note of this comment as I don't pay them very often Sparky! Those of you involved with AdeptiCon, soke it up. You got 48 hours to enjoy it and then the hard work starts up again. ..

torgoch wrote:

The English language nations. And the Scots.

Wait a sec - is that an actual girl in the picture? I call Shenanigans!!

Awww, a big bunch of happy sweaty nerds.

Da Boss wrote:Awww, a happy bunch of big sweaty nerds.

FYP

JohnHwangDD wrote:

torgoch wrote:

The English language nations. And the Scots.

Wait a sec - is that an actual girl in the picture? I call Shenanigans!!

That might be a girl behind the girl too. And a girl behind that one. Hard to tell....

Thank you for the kind words everyone, our boys did really well. We had a ton of things stacked against us in this our first ever experience at the ETC. A complicated and detailed tournament format, vastly different rules interpretations, jet lag, and no knowledge of how other countries went about their strategy. Despite all these things, we got within one dice roll of the medals.

I'm very proud of my team. This weekend we learned we are just as good as any other players in the world, hopefully, we convinced our European friends of that as well. Or maybe hopefully not, perpetuating the idea that we are clueless worked pretty well for us this year .

There will definitely be an American team next year. Better watch out world, our range finding shot hit pretty damn close, and now that we have a clue what it is like to play in the ETC, we've got our sights set on gold in Switzerland.

I know there are countless US players who want to be on the team. I'll work out how qualifiers for next year will work in a few months.

Lastly, I'm sure we will get lots of battle reports and accounts of the tournament on the internet through one site or another.

I was wondering about jet lag.

Whenever I go the the east coast (Or even BolsCon) I am awake in the middle of the night, and am zombie after a few days of less than 4 hours of sleep. This is one of the reasons why I think that I get bad sportsmanship scores in the east coast GTs and good sportsmanship scores in west coast GTs.

As far as the girl in the picture goes, that is Alicia, Ben's wife. Every team can have one additional member for support/logistics and she was it for team USA.

And in the picture Wyatt is holding a beer...why does that not surprise me?

As a member of team England, I'd just like to thank the Americans and congratulate them again on a superb result for their first ETC.

You guys were awesome and the event as a whole was definately enriched by your presence!

We really wanted to face you guys in the main event, but alas it wasn't to be, however I had an awesome game vs Shaun in the side event nid on nid style-definately my favourite, he was a gent and I'm glad it ended in a draw.

Hope to see you guys again in Switzerland.

I'm really hoping for battle reports from this.

So wonder who's going to be the first site to bring us some in-depth coverage of this?

Dakka?

Blood of Kittens?

BOLS?


YTTH????? (nah!)

Bols will considering I was on the team

Not bad, USA, not bad.

We always play for the Gold, but for our first time out, 5th isn't anything to be ashamed of.

And as for all the big talkers and back seat generals saying this and that: who cares. If they think they can do it better, go and prove it next year.

@Hulk

Team USA part deux, More feth Yeah!

If I can swing it I'll go next year. Why not? I have not been back to Europe since 2004, I'd love to get back over.

Team USA needs some west coast representation to be team America!

By the way, if you want to play for the US of A next year, I would recommend playing at this tournament:

http://daboyzgt.wordpress.com/da-boyz-gt/

Most of the ETC guys will be there, and it will be a good chance for you to rub elbows with them, and to make a name for yourself by doing well at the tournament.