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Unfortunately in America it's not as easy to find or rent space in "community centers".

We tried to set one up where I live but were rudely informed that we could not "gamble" in a community center and they would not listen to reason when it came to how the games we play use dice.

Normal people just do not want to understand what this hobby is.

NELS1031 wrote:

AvatarForm wrote:Pot calling the kettle black much?

I direct the Jury's attention to Kanluwen's gallery: http://www.dakkadakka.com/gallery/user/722-Kanluwen.html

This jury members sees nothing egregious in his gallery. Golden Demon winning, maybe not, a better camera would help, but certainly nothing in there thats offensive.

The verdict is guilty of poor attempt at trolling on your part.

Have a splendid day sir.

This must be one of these one-man juries I've heard so much about.

You want a verdict? Go sit in a corner and leave the comedy to professionals. That was painful to read.

chromedog wrote:

This is what has always puzzled me. The US game playing scene seems to revolve around playing in shops.

The UK scene is much more about clubs at parish halls, community centres and people's houses.

The main Aussie scene is like this as well.
The minority of clubs are based in stores, GW or otherwise.

My own club used to be hosted in the local Police &Citizens Youth Club (we found a cheaper venue across the road) with access to beer.
My previous clubs were usually run in hired scout halls or other community group locations.

Actually, there is a fairly simple explanation for (at least part of) this: while in the US, we may have more space in our homes, we also have more space everywhere else. That is, more separation between where people live. Consequently, gaming stores can be far more convenient, especially for "country folk" like myself.

My FLGS, for example, draws from people from 30-45 minutes travel (sometimes even more) in every direction. Moreover, people know that the store will be there, and be open when they get there; this is especially important when the gaming group isn't a) very stable, and/or b) very big.

In a large city I could imagine the population density allowing for clubs, but at the same time they would have a hard time acclimating to the rents in the same areas.

imweasel wrote:

Frazzled wrote:They don't have to. they do what the they want. Its their ing tables.

Sure. But at that point, why the feth have them?

Interestingly, there is a DCM from a different poster. The store may be requiring GW templates, dice, and paint. The dice part got me. Seriously? if true thats the FU moment for me.

Buzzsaw wrote:Actually, there is a fairly simple explanation for (at least part of) this: while in the US, we may have more space in our homes, we also have more space everywhere else. That is, more separation between where people live. Consequently, gaming stores can be far more convenient, especially for "country folk" like myself.

If you're just talking about the UK, then yeah. But I'm fairly sure the Aussie population is more spread out than the US.

sourclams wrote:

Frazzled wrote:i'll note the OP said they actually buy their stuff online. Based on that, why on earth should they let you play there again?

Because it's a GW store that he wants to play at with his GW army composed of GW models that he bought from a GW-sourced supplier?

This isn't the bought online at 20% discount/want to play at Indy retailer moral dilemma. Having people in the store exhibiting the product and displaying their enthusiasm for the only product that the store sells for free should be good for business. I guess GW land doesn't view it the same way.

Thats right...not only are you supposed to have an amry for every faction in all the GW games, but they need to be current edition too...and you better have bought them direct from GW at full retail.

Good god people...ehat do you think they are, a company based on a hobby? They are trying to make money here. Shareholders who dont even know what a Space Marine is want bigger dividend checks.

...I don't see the problem really. I find it odd that they would enforce something such as no proxying, but I HATE proxy games. I'm not against other people playing them, but if that rule meant that people might actually put effort into finishing their army then I'm all for it.

I think all of the requests apart from the 10% proxy things are highly unreasonable. I am not suggesting it is alrite to just bring your laptop and look at your illegal scans but it is unfair to demand a rulebook per person. As for codexes i really should get one. Saying that i am not a cheat or liar and i resent being told i am, if an opponent accuses me of cheating it is up to them to check the codex. Anyway most people learn the rules from experience/battle reports or indeed forums, i have never owned a rulebook from the three editions. The most recent rulebook has 60 pages odd of rule content, 20% of this is restatement. It takes around 30 mins for a person of reasonable/moderate high intelligence to absorb it, if you play often it is reinforced to near eidetic recollection. If they sold the rulebook in a format that consisted of these 60-70 pages, merely for reference purposes, i would purchase it, till then they can suck it. I buy their miniatures Always, bar bits sites, from games workshop direct out of loyalty, so they should let me play. As for templates in the 3rd edition 40k rulebook they had them printed WITH EXPRESS PERMISSION for Photocopying, if this right of sanctioned reproduction has been officially anulled then i will buy their official ones, if not, they can suck it. AGAIN....

Perkustin wrote:if an opponent accuses me of cheating it is up to them to check the codex.

The onus of proof is upon you to show the rule you are using at the time. Both players having the relevant rulebooks to hand cuts out a lot of arguing and wasted time. You may have committed the whole book to memory but having one, with helpful tabs at regular trouble spots, can speed up the game a lot and lead to a more enjoyable time for all. Plus, I would think that you should want to help others understand the rules when they have a problem with how you play. You could well be right all of the time but unless you can show the actual words in the book most people will not believe you.

All the rules seem fine to me, they are offering you free shop space that could just be a starbucks or something. The least you can do is buy their products. Using largely proxied armies is like making your own sandwiches and then eating them in a cafe: your sandwiches may be really well made but it doesnt mean you have the right to take up their space while eating them.

Things like dice though, GW shouldn't have a rule regarding those. If I went out and bought a hundred precision gambling dice I should be able to use them. I know this is a slightly hypocritical view, given what I have said, but GW dice are not the best around.

I believe i know what store OP refers to, but i don't think rule #4 is correct, and it's actually:

Rule #4: All models must be 100% GW minis

So i believe you can still sorta proxy, but this means my army with is heavily converted and kitbashed, because i bought stuff from other places (ie shoulder pads and such) cannot be used due to this rule........... lame

Emperors Faithful wrote:

Buzzsaw wrote:Actually, there is a fairly simple explanation for (at least part of) this: while in the US, we may have more space in our homes, we also have more space everywhere else. That is, more separation between where people live. Consequently, gaming stores can be far more convenient, especially for "country folk" like myself.

If you're just talking about the UK, then yeah. But I'm fairly sure the Aussie population is more spread out than the US.

How far/long do people in your clubs travel to game?

I dont see an issue with the requests made by the stoe bar the last one.

All I have to say is that I don't go into GW because I can't gripe about new rules issues without a small deathsquad of staff members bulldozing me with propaganda, and I can't try out (proxy) entirely new armies with my AOBR set. I'd take my FLGS over a strictly-GW store anytime, just like I'd take a general computer store over the Apple store, despite that I actually like Apple's and GW's in-store customer service.

EDIT: To clarify, before I get mobbed by anti-proxiers, I'm talking about trying out an army and deciding whether or not I like them before I spend more money than I really have on an army. I don't have much to spend on things other than food and transportation, so this is something I do sparingly and in my free-time.

I dont think its unreasonable to require that you bring your own rulebook, army, templates, and dice. Otherwise your just going into the store to take advantage of their merch. I thought you were ramping up to them saying something like, "you cant play unless you make a purchase everytime, or your army is completely painted."

Hurrdurr2000 wrote:1) You don't have your own rulebook on your person
2) You don't have the specific codex for the army you are playing on your person
3) You don't bring your own templates, markers and dice
4) You proxy more than 10% of your models

I don't see anything onerous in this list. GW stores aren't lending libraries and you should have a copy of the rules, codex, and templates anyway. As for the proxying, that depends on what's being proxied. If you have a box of playing cards as a heavy weapons unit or soda cans as land raiders, then yes, I'd support GW in refusing your army. If you're talking Razorback being proxied as a Predator then as long as your oppenent is fine, it should be up to you. Official store events shouldn't be expected to allow any proxied units and GW has a long standing policy of not letting you use competitor's figures at all.

The only time I dislike GW stores is when there's a pushy, in-your-face salesperson who won't stop badgering you. Fortunately I don't get that at the Seattle Battle Bunker so it's all good.