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Schagenfreude, you make a good point EXCEPT... all of what you said marginalized GKSS for one of the other units!

Coteaz=GEQ, so no GKSS
Draigo=Paladins, so no GKSS
Grandmaster=termies, so no GKSS
Crowe=purfiers, so no GKSS
Champion=termies, so no GKSS
Librarian=termies, so no GKSS

You are correct in that the characters give you force multipliers, but all the force multipliers you mention are for CC, and the GKSS is not a good cc unit compared to GKT units with the free halberd/4++/hammers.

As for henchmen being GEQ, this is definately NOT true. It COULD be true, but calling a henchmen army GEQ is like calling an ork army GEQ--its just not true. A henchmen unit might be all deathcult assassians or Crusaders. Crusaders are about as similiar to GEQ as tactical marines are.

DevianID wrote:Schagenfreude, you make a good point EXCEPT... all of what you said marginalized GKSS for one of the other units!

Coteaz=GEQ, so no GKSS
Draigo=Paladins, so no GKSS
Grandmaster=termies, so no GKSS
Crowe=purfiers, so no GKSS
Champion=termies, so no GKSS
Librarian=termies, so no GKSS

You are correct in that the characters give you force multipliers, but all the force multipliers you mention are for CC, and the GKSS is not a good cc unit compared to GKT units with the free halberd/4++/hammers.

As for henchmen being GEQ, this is definately NOT true. It COULD be true, but calling a henchmen army GEQ is like calling an ork army GEQ--its just not true. A henchmen unit might be all deathcult assassians or Crusaders. Crusaders are about as similiar to GEQ as tactical marines are.

Armies with a force multiplied death star still have use for ss as the death star is a huge point sink, and without crowe or cortez ss are the only troop option. Being stuck wil a really good troops choice like ss instead of an even better troops choice is the price for having the better hq choices.

I am not expecting to see many cc henchmen, but they would be nasty. A mix of deathcult, arcoflag, and crusaders all in 1 unit would be different. The idea is good, I just don't expect to see it often.

My beef with henchmen is leadership. They are fragile, have no ansknf, and have no officers for orders. They are worse than guardsmen when it comes to leadership, so I think it is a mistake to have 100% of your scoring units as henchmen.

As an avid guard player, I'm not sure I concur with the henchman troops concern.

At 1500 i run three units of mechvets in my tournament IG army. They have leadership 8, they are in a chimera, and there is no counter-assault or other preventative measures for someone to get close enough to charge them.

In a 1500 GK army with torquemada... i would run four units of 3x henchmen with meltas. Their leadership is also 8. (but lack get back in the fight) They would also be screened and protected by three units of purifiers in razorbacks, making getting past them to charge or to flamer my henchmen much more difficult. There are also three razorbacks available for the surviving henchmen to embark on. And also if the chimera doesn't get an explodes result, the three henchmen will disembark out of the back door, and be immediately completely LOS blocked.

I have not played enough games to know for sure... but i think the addition of a fourth unit, and the presence of the purifiers/torquemada, could keep them at least as viable of a scoring unit in competitive play.

The great thing about this codex, is that if you don't agree, and the flimsiness of the henchmen units just isn't your style, you can take crowe and make those purifiers a VERY wonderful troops choice.

Hitting on strike squads again....

the strike squad I like is this...

5x strike squad 1x psycannon razorback heavy bolters psy-bolts

the purifiers I run are

5x purifiers 2x psycannon 3x halberd razorback heavy bolters psy-bolts

I'm not comfortable putting up points costs yet, but I can say that the purifiers are 32 points more per unit. Its the same transport, the same survivability to shooting, better shooting by a measurable margin, and better CC by an extremely wide margin. Warp quake theoretically closes the gap. Undoubtedly good when facing daemons, drop pods, or any other army that forces the issue with deep striking. But it does nothing when you don't face one of those armies. Take strike squads when you want warp quake or want 32 points.

I have been using crowe plenty. 7 games with him already. Not only is he not bad, I have found him to be quite good. The simple combo of cleansing flame and then blade parry for a re-rollable 2+/4++ has stopped many aggressive units dead in their tracks. He is another cleansing flame to combo with a charging purifier unit (if he and a purifier unit charge an enemy unit and both use cleansing flame, then every model in that unit will take a wound on average) and saving his heroic sacrifice for things like furioso dreadnoughts, mephiston, wolf lords, etc. When killing Crowe while he is based up to a 200 point model is actually a bad idea, then he becomes a SERIOUS issue. If you don't know what heroic sacrifice does, because you haven't seen the dex... when a brotherhood champion dies, he may use it, its a psychic power, if it passes, he rolls to hit a single model in base to base contact (his choice), if he HITS it, its removed from play, jaws of the world wolf style. BTW, his WS is 8.

However, there are other very good HQs that are certainly worth taking. And this is what is going to make the strike squad viable. And also I need to point out that if crowe didn't make purifiers troops, then I would be planning a strike squad army, at their points value, they are a perfectly usable unit. Comparing that 5 man with psycannon in the heavybolterback to a grey hunter unit in a las-plas or assault cannon razorback will show that they are at least as good. And people seem to love to hate that grey hunter unit.

Ok, the librarian with shrouding stands out to me as something quite powerful. Just simply to give dreadnoughts a 3+ cover while behind razorbacks is one obvious and very easy to apply use. But even going a step further... 'he who shall not be named' has already begun working on a foot grey knights army that uses crusader henchmen screens to provide mobile cover to shooty foot grey knights, who would then benefit immensely from shrouding. And in the context of a transport free army, would also REALLY be interested in something like warp quake.

So I guess ultimately, right now if you asked me if they weren't good, I would say hell no, they are good. You can make a hencmen list that is very good, and you can make a purifier list that is very good. And those two lists obfuscate the strike squads. But I'm not making hench lists just to ditch the "crappy" strike squads... I'm doing it to grab some heavy flamer/multi-laser chimeras and some VALUEABLE and lacking meltas. Its kinda hard to get henchmen without torquemada, and so that is why that happens. Likewise I'm not taking crowe to avoid the 'crappy' strike squads, I am taking him because purifiers are exceptional units and i want 4 of them, not 3. Point for point they are less survivable than strike squads to shooting, and they are certainly not invulnerable to CC death. BTW, running the numbers on 20 boys with power klaw nob charging the purifiers, the purifers end up losing their last model before the klaw nob dies if the orks charge. And those two units are comparable in points costs, so it isn't the end of the world by any stretch for orks.

Just for fun, and since it is a strike squad army, here is a re-imagining of an eldrad-avatar foot eldar list with the GK dex (with original idea credit to Stelek)

btw... this list is 1500 points

Inquisitor karamazov (playing the part of the avatar)
grey knight librarian shrouding quicksilver sanctuary dark excommunication might of titan 3x servo skulls (eldrad)

8x crusaders 4x death cult assassins (harlequins)

10x strike squad 2x psycannon psybolt ammo (guardians on steroids)
10x strike squad 2x psycannon psybolt ammo

dreadknight heavy incinerator (good old wraithlord)
dreadknight heavy incinerator
dreadknight