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Dangerous Outrider






micahaphone wrote:Dammit GW, stop the power armor, non-power armor- power armor release schedule and give us the greater good!


Apart from Necrons are basically Power armour equivalent and Sisters are power armoured.

The Tau look nice but tend to fail.
It would be nice to see some armies that are not Power armoured being played a little more often truth be told. Other than Dark Eldar, getting bored...

Armies | Space Marines (Void Knights - Own Chapter), Space Wolves & Dark Angels | Imperial Guard Cadian and Kasrikin | Grey Knight/Sisters/Inquisitors | Empire - Hochland | Britanan (Relics) | Mordor & Gondor |

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alphaomega wrote:
micahaphone wrote:Dammit GW, stop the power armor, non-power armor- power armor release schedule and give us the greater good!


Apart from Necrons are basically Power armour equivalent and Sisters are power armoured.

The Tau look nice but tend to fail.
It would be nice to see some armies that are not Power armoured being played a little more often truth be told. Other than Dark Eldar, getting bored...


what about Orks?
   
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Or Chaos Daemons?
   
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Brother SRM wrote:
micahaphone wrote:Dammit GW, stop the power armor, non-power armor- power armor release schedule and give us the greater good!

Considering Daemonhunters and Witchhunters had their last books (before the current GK book anyway) in 2003, I think it's a reasonable wait


It isn't right to say Tau should wait longer because Necrons have already been waiting. No-one should have to wait so long for their army book to be updated.

All books should be rewritten within two years of an edition change. No new edition should be released to invalidate books until at least two years after the last one has been published.

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Philedelphia,Pa

Dammit GW, stop the power armor, non-power armor- power armor release schedule and give us the greater good!


The Greater Good!


Also since this is the news and rumors thread, I have heard that in fact Tau are next or after sisters and that necrons have been pushed back. however this is just a rumor and probably wishfull thinking (by me!)


And If tau get a kraken type gunship with three rail guns or so, that's a flyer and If the rumor that rail guns go in a straight line and hit vehicles that are in the way then that sounds really over powered against all mech!

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/04/08 20:14:36


 
   
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UK

Fire warriors are still BS 3 yes, but there are ways to make that less sucky then it sounds. And considering your shooting a S5 rifle it really isn’t that bad anyway.


It IS bad, you know there's something wrong when you've played Tau for nigh on 3 years and your Fire Warriors have killed more in CC than they have with shooting; the abundance of cover all but negates the AP and gives pretty-much everything that looks at it a 4+ cover save.

Sure, you can use pathfinders, but you have to have at least 3 lights on it just to remove cover, and another one or two to augment shooting for a single fire warrior unit. You shouldn't have to take an expensive support unit so that you can allow your other units to do the jobs they're supposed to do to start with; in a company, would you hire someone if you had to also hire a personal trainer to get him to do it all?

There's a good reason why people prefer kroot over FWs to fill their troops.

Mandorallen turned back toward the insolently sneering baron. 'My Lord,' The great knight said distantly, 'I find thy face apelike and thy form misshapen. Thy beard, moreover, is an offence against decency, resembling more closely the scabrous fur which doth decorate the hinder portion of a mongrel dog than a proper adornment for a human face. Is it possibly that thy mother, seized by some wild lechery, did dally at some time past with a randy goat?' - Mimbrate Knight Protector Mandorallen.

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I do enjoy Fire Warriors, but I do believe they need something to help hit the enemy a bit harder. Avatar 720 is on the right track.

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Wow, not liking the rumors on the first page at all. 60 point suits? Crazy. Obliterator suits? Blah, takes the fun out of designing your teams. GW wants you to have more, not less, and 300 point troop choices are just not a great idea. 2+ invulnerable? Too good IMHO.

FW really don't need BS 4. Str 5 BS 3 is almost exactly the same performance as Str 4, BS 4, and better against vehicles.
   
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TheTrueProtoman wrote: I do enjoy Fire Warriors, but I do believe they need something to help hit the enemy a bit harder. Avatar 720 is on the right track.

bs4 would only decrease the synergy the army relies on.

All firewarriors need are cheaper and more plentiful ways to get markerlights into the army.

AND/OR

make their guns have multiple profiles like

H1 30" // A2 18" // A3 12"

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2011/04/08 23:51:48


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Rohnert Park

kestral wrote:FW really don't need BS 4. Str 5 BS 3 is almost exactly the same performance as Str 4, BS 4, and better against vehicles.


Your comparison is incomplete as any shooting unit is inherently exposed after they get their shots off. Fire Warriors have T3 and Ld7 giving them absolutely no staying power and therefore are almost certain to die after they get their one turn of shooting off.

Fire Warriors need BS4 if their statline otherwise remains the same as they are so fragile that they must kill every thing that they shoot at in one phase of shooting, otherwise they are as good as dead.

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Fenton Michigan

I don't think an increase to their BS is what they need. Perhaps more options to focus their fire, changing of how their weapons work or some other rule/ more markerlights.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/04/08 23:54:36


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Hell, I'd be happy with cheap markerlight drones. Then a FW team would be able to augment their guns somewhat.

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Ontario

I think it would be more useful if simply everyone could tap into a markerlight. Ex; if you hit a unit of Boyz in a Kustom Forcefield with three markerlights, you can then designate what those markerlights do, say one to remove cover and two to increase BS, then any unit that shoots that unit of Boyz afterwards can claim all of the affects that the markerlights have given.

I know this is wishlisting but it would make more sense in my opinion than increasing the baes bs of any of the units.

That kraken sounds kind of interesting, though if it goes on the flyer base it will actually make the rumoured railgun rules worse from it, as it would always draw a straight line into the tank and then into the ground behind it instead of all the way across the board like a tank at table hieght would.

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Clang wrote:I don't have a problem with extra sub-races being brought in, so long as the HQ all remain Tau - the Tau fluff does a reasonable job of justifying the 'we hire mercenaries for any specialist combat roles we can't do so well ourselves' concept. Plus it really amps up the modelling possibilities. (And Demiurgs will make all the Squat fans semi-happy )

An all battle suit army? - yay!


I agree with the above. and not to mention a small point game that your forced to take 2 HQs so that you have versatility to your army.... However I could see that if you used a certain point value say 500+ (just throwing a number out there) that you have to take a HQ of that type. but again The Tau are too proud to ever consider one of these races as equals to them.

Not to mention I am hoping to see some fluff in the new codex regarding how useless Vespid were so they Genocided the whole freaking race.


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Montreal Canada

Sounds like a late april fools joke. Most of this stuff sounds like it would cause more harm than good. Except the sheild gen 2+ shroud thing. Tau should be the Next Xeno to get updated...by that I mean after Necrons.

I think it should go something like this.

Necrons
Witch Hunters
Eldar
Dark Angels
Tau
Daemon Hunters
Chaos Daemons
NEW MARINE ARMY! Either Traitor Guard or a Traitor Marine Army OR. One of the Almost Extinct Marines like Crimson Fists or something like that.

6th Edition
Orks and Space Marines out same time
New Battleset - Battle for --------- Which Consists of Dark Eldar Vs I.G

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/04/09 03:40:06


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So Cal

TheTrueProtoman wrote:

make their guns have multiple profiles like

H1 30" // A2 18" // A3 12"



OH I like this idea too

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2011/04/09 03:37:20



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Montreal Canada

How about the option of playing a Tau Manta as a heavy choice? Titan Killer Cannons, 16 Burst cannons, Can Carry 4 Ships. Something like 6 Crisis suits and up to 6 squads of Troops.

Just like its FW Apocolypes profile. I think that would make Tau more playable at ard boys.

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Boston, MA

Field Gen wrote:I think it should go something like this.
Necrons
Witch Hunters
Eldar
Dark Angels
Tau
Daemon Hunters
Chaos Daemons
NEW MARINE ARMY! Either Traitor Guard or a Traitor Marine Army OR. One of the Almost Extinct Marines like Crimson Fists or something like that.

Tau after Dark Angels? I HAVE a Dark Angels army and I don't like that idea. Also why Daemon Hunters? Grey Knights have their codex and that won't change for 5 years at the barest minimum.

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Field Gen wrote:I think it should go something like this.

Necrons
Witch Hunters
Eldar
Dark Angels
Tau
Daemon Hunters
Chaos Daemons
NEW MARINE ARMY! Either Traitor Guard or a Traitor Marine Army OR. One of the Almost Extinct Marines like Crimson Fists or something like that.


Really? You want to release three competitive armies before Tau which are the 2nd worst (Necrons are worst and are thankfully getting their book next) codex by far? What is the deal with that? Is everyone still afraid of the railgun or something?

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Montreal Canada

Well yes but I think if it does go something like that. Since they are doing space marine/ Xeno combo switch off. They should go by what ones have been waiting the longest.

Tau have a nice colorful codex. Necrons book is still that black...thing. Also isn't Grey Knights and Daemon Hunters two separate things?

Anyway, I love tau but in all fairness there are some things that have been waiting a little longer. Sure tau suck noodles...mostly..still fun to play and needs work but they should wait a little bit to make sure to do a really good job on them.

Also what if some reason that GW decides to make 6th edition come out a little early? They got up to the next four codex from now and than. Bam. A codex that might had been really good for 5th edition rules is now hurting because of rule changes that hurt some of the stuff they were good at.

So than they drop SM, Ork and Tau codex that is up to the 6th editions rules and thus are not effected by the change because their refresh will reflect what the new rules are.

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I am moving this thread to 40K General Discussion. We are out of the News timeframe now.

I'm writing a load of fiction. My latest story starts here... This is the index of all the stories...

We're not very big on official rules. Rules lead to people looking for loopholes. What's here is about it. 
   
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I don't mind that much if Fire Warriors remain BS 3, if they just make markerlights easier to use. But what Tau sorely needs is a BS 4 Battlesuit, they're elites for Greater Good's sake!

 
   
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Field Gen wrote: Also isn't Grey Knights and Daemon Hunters two separate things?

Officially, yes, they are. In practice it's like Codex: Tau becoming Codex: Tau Empires. Just a name change as the focus is on Grey Knights.

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ZeroSamurai wrote:I don't mind that much if Fire Warriors remain BS 3, if they just make markerlights easier to use. But what Tau sorely needs is a BS 4 Battlesuit, they're elites for Greater Good's sake!


Yes, it's quite ironic that the most shooty (supposedly) army in the game has elites with below average BS.

I'm writing a load of fiction. My latest story starts here... This is the index of all the stories...

We're not very big on official rules. Rules lead to people looking for loopholes. What's here is about it. 
   
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kestral wrote:GW wants you to have more, not less, and 300 point troop choices are just not a great idea.


Mmm, yeah, tell that to power blob IG players.

Field Gen wrote:
I think it should go something like this.

Necrons
Witch Hunters
Eldar
Dark Angels
Tau
Daemon Hunters*
Chaos Daemons


*See Codex: Grey Knights.

However,

Field Gen wrote:NEW MARINE ARMY! Either Traitor Guard or a Traitor Marine Army OR. One of the Almost Extinct Marines like Crimson Fists or something like that.


I like the sound of this.

Field Gen wrote:How about the option of playing a Tau Manta as a heavy choice? Titan Killer Cannons, 16 Burst cannons, Can Carry 4 Ships. Something like 6 Crisis suits and up to 6 squads of Troops.

Just like its FW Apocolypes profile. I think that would make Tau more playable at ard boys.


Ok, you just ruined my illusion of you. This. Is. A. Stupid. Idea. Why would anyone, apart from Bill Gates' kid, want a US$1500+ model for a Heavy Support selection? Not to mention that the model would cover the half of the board. Have you seen the scale picture of the guy holding it?

ZeroSamurai wrote:I don't mind that much if Fire Warriors remain BS 3, if they just make markerlights easier to use. But what Tau sorely needs is a BS 4 Battlesuit, they're elites for Greater Good's sake!


This. Then still be able to purchase the +1 to BS upgrade (the name escapes me for now).

Anyways, OT, IMO Markerlights shouldn't be removed after one use, maybe instead at the end of the Shooting Phase? That is my $0.02

purplefood wrote:It's an army of a hellish dystopian state where they are forced to fight some of the most terrifying creatures mankind has ever seen, in the name of a god-emperor that might not even be alive, under commanders that do not care whether they live or die... what do you think? But hey laser guns!
 
   
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Gathering the Informations.

Kilkrazy wrote:
ZeroSamurai wrote:I don't mind that much if Fire Warriors remain BS 3, if they just make markerlights easier to use. But what Tau sorely needs is a BS 4 Battlesuit, they're elites for Greater Good's sake!


Yes, it's quite ironic that the most shooty (supposedly) army in the game has elites with below average BS.

Well maybe if the Tau developed depth perception and glasses, they'd be BS4!
   
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Mt. Gretna, PA

Man, if the rumor of Crisis troops as troops is correct... (and they don't cost extra...)

6 units of 5 firestorm crisis suits would be amazing! 1500 points, and you get 60 MP shots and 90 BC shots... *SHREEDD!!!!*

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Kanluwen wrote: Well maybe if the Tau developed depth perception and glasses, they'd be BS4!


This comment really angers me, because its what everyone says when Tau FW BS 3 is brought up....I am sorry but thats what we have the best technological equipment....to make up for that......


Rant over


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http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/user/edit/40180.page

Brother SRM wrote:
guyperson5 wrote:I heard there's going to be:
A 'Kraken' Gunship that is kitted out with lots of Railguns etc.
Elite fire warriors (attached to Ethereal)
New rules for other things there already
Lower points on a few things
It is virtually impossible to name them all without taking all night

So why don't you take more than 5 minutes to name anything substantial? The only thing here that wasn't common sense or already in the existing codex is the Kraken you're mentioning.

OK then, Brother SRM
HQ
15 point cost reduction to both Shas'El and Shas'O, however Shas 'O can take XV-9 or XV 25 armor at an increased cost.

Ethereal
Priced the same
New rule " Blind to the Warp" Basically Ethereal and any unit within 18" of the Ethereal are immune to psychic effects that are not damaging attacks . (So Bolt of Change or Destructor would still affect the Tau units, but Doom, or Lash of Torment would not)
Can also be upgraded to take an envoy:

Fire Caste Envoy: basically a team of 12 Firewarriors with BS4 and advanced pulse rifles that are 24" assault 2 pinning

Earth Caste Envoy: Ethereal is followed by a retinue of 4 mining drones. The mining drones can be detached and deployed to create an area of difficult terrain. Treat this as a ordinance barrage attack for the purposes of determining where it hits in a 18" range, roll to scatter. The effect causes no real damage as the drone uses a seismic destabilization device to cause a ground disturbance that is difficult terrain for troops and dangerous terrain for vehicles. (but not skimmers)

Water Caste Envoy: The ethereal is followed by 2 Water Caste ambassadors. Each time an enemy has a chance to roll for a reserve coming in on a deep strike or outflank you can declare you are using th water caste's "passive resistance" ability. You roll a dice and your opponent rolls a dice for each enemy reserve coming in via either deep strike or outflanking. For each roll off you win, you may place that unit. You may place deep striking units anywhere on the table but must be at least 6" away from any table edge. For outflankers you choose what side they come in on. You must have at least one water caste ambassador alive to use this ability.

Air Caste Envoy: The ethereal is followed by a command and control drone. The drone is attached to Advanced air caste aerospace computer relay satellites. While the drone is alive, any tank in the Tau army equipped with a command and control node relay can make one shooting attack against deep strikers. Each unit may only be targeted once and each tank can only target one deep striking unit.

Elites
Crisis and stealth suits are ten points cheaper
weapon systems prices remain the same
Marker drone cost reduced to 20 pts.
A team leader of XV-8s can be upgraded to take iridium armor, or a SMS, or a marker light.

Stealth suits use the stealth universal special rule as well as night fighting rules to be spotted.

There is also a new tau auxillary race that is some kind of centaur thing that no one will use.

Troops
Fire warriors cost the same but have the option that if NOT mounted in a devilfish they may take a unit of kroot hounds (max 5) as an attachment. The unit may not include any drones if it includes kroot hounds. If the Firewarriors lose combat and flee check to see if there are any remaining kroot hounds. If there are still kroot hounds present in the unit, the firewarriors will still flee, but the Kroot hounds will stay and fight, gaining the fearless special rule, preventing the firewarriors from being run down.

Kroot points cost remains unchanged. Units of kroot including krootox may not infiltrate, but may still outflank. Krootox now count as monstrous creatures. Their profile stays the same. A kroot shaper cost is increased to 30 pts, however he grants one of the following to the kroot he is assigned to : Feel No Pain, Furious Charge, or Preferred Enemy.

New Troop unit - XV-6 Alert
18 points per model, max 8 in a squad
same stats as a stealth suit except only 1 attack and I 2
Jet Pack infantry
+4 save
has 2 hard points that must be filled by
(2 weapons mounted will count as 1 twin linked weapon)

Advanced Pulse Rifle S 5 AP 5 24" range assault 2 pinning
Flamer
Advanced boosters ( adds + 1D6" to any move using the jet pack.When choosing to run in the shooting phase roll 3D6 and choose the highest)
Iridium Armor granting +3 armor save (cannot be taken with advanced boosters)
Drone Controller
Shield Generator

Devilfish reduced to 50 points
Disruption pod increased to 15 points
Devilfish can be equipped with atmospheric thrusters for 15 points which will allow them to Deep strike. When Deep striking with atmospheric thrusters roll only 1D6 when scattering.

Fast Attack
Piranha squadrons point cost reduced to 35 points per model
can take 2 networked markerlights instead of 2 gun drones for 30 points
Wording on flechette dischargers fixed so that each assaulter directing attacks against the piranha squadron takes wounds from each flechette discharger in the unit.
Can take atmospheric thrusters (see above)

Gun Drones reduced in cost to 8 points per model

Pathfinders the same but do not have to take a devil fish.

Vespid now have the hit and run rule, otherwise remain unchanged

XV-9 Hazard suits 60 points per model otherwise see IAA:2 for more details

Heavy Support
Broadsides now cost 55 pts per model, otherwise remain unchanged


Sniper Drone Teams still 0-1 but can take 3 as part of a single FOC slot. Points cost reduced to 40 per team.

Hammerhead base cost reduced to 60 points. Railgun reduced in cost to 40 points, Ion Cannon remains unchanged. New options being twin-linked fusion cannon, twin-linked plasma cannon, or twin-linked long barreled burst cannon.
Can be equipped with atmospheric thrusters or command and control node relay.

Skyray base cost reduced to 90 points.
There are new seeker ammo load outs for the skyray. Each skyray may only equip 1 type of seeker loadout

New seeker ammo load outs: Anti-Air Seekers. Causes all deep strikers during an enemy's turn to suffer a dangerous terrain test on the turn they arrive. 20 pts

Choking Smoke: these seekers are launched the same way a normal seeker is, but you target an area of ground, roll to see if you hit as normal for seeker missiles, if missed rolled 2D6 and scatter. The round creates an area of choking smoke the size of the large blast template that lasts until the beginning of the next Tau turn. The smoke blocks LOS and any non-vehicle unit trying to move through it treats it as difficult terrain. Any infantry unit starting their turn or moving through the smoke reduces their WS and I to 1 for the rest of their turn. 40 points

Marker Gel
These seekers explode into a gout of electro-reactive gel that adheres to any surface and is full of nanomachines that relay information to Tau targeting computers. For the rest of the game any Tau unit shooting at a unit that has been marker gel'd is treated as having BS 5. 25 points

Normal Seeker ammo 15 points

Can be equipped with atmoshperic thrusters. May only take a command and control node relay if equipped with a standard seeker missile rack.


New Heavy Support Choice
Kraken heavy skimmer tank
220 points
Equipped with target lock, advanced targeting array (BS 5) a hull mounted Heavy Rail Cannon and two turret mounted ion cannons. The Kraken may also take 2 twin-linked smart missile systems, or 4 gun drones.
Rail Cannon S 10 AP 1 72" Lance
When the rail cannon fires trace a line from its barrel to 72" or the end of the table, whichever is shorter. Roll to hit the first target in that line, if that target is a non vehicle unit, or a vehicle that the rail cannon has had a penetrating shot on, roll to hit the next target in line. Do this until the railcannon shot fails to penetrate a vehicle or there are no units left in the line. If the shot fails to hit a vehicle move on to the next one, the shot has not stopped, it just miraculously missed that particular target.
Cannot take atmospheric thrusters

Lots of new wargear stuff. There is a ruling in the book on drones attached to squads:

"Any drone under the influence of a drone controller does not count for the purposes of taking a morale test due to unit losses. Also drones are automatically destroyed when a vehicle is destroyed. Drones do not count as seperate from the vehicle they are mounted on unless they detach.(so drones do not give extra KP unless you decide to detach them) Drones that are attached to a unit always have the same unit type and armor save/ toughness as the unit they are attached too."

Well I am sure that this should get you all excited about the new codex!!!!!!

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Wow. If the above post is true, looks like Tau are going to replace the SW as the most over-powered codex ever.

They'll do well in Planetsrike.

EDIT: Double post removed.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2011/04/10 08:28:01


purplefood wrote:It's an army of a hellish dystopian state where they are forced to fight some of the most terrifying creatures mankind has ever seen, in the name of a god-emperor that might not even be alive, under commanders that do not care whether they live or die... what do you think? But hey laser guns!
 
   
 
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