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I don't understand how anyone sane can claim Infinity is expensive.
I see 20 dollar plastic single model soldier-sized blisters from GW. The game actually expects you to field over a hundred troops and more than 15 vehicles nowadays. Three Sigmarines is 50 dollars as well in a box.
Infinity is played with 10-14 of the most high detail scifi minis available. It's not expensive by any rational sense as far as Minis gaming goes.
That will teach me to get 3 big factions together. heh
Sir Isaac Newton may be the deadliest son-of-a-bitch in space, but John von Neumann is the logistics officer that eats your problems and turns them into kit.
Killionaire wrote: I don't understand how anyone sane can claim Infinity is expensive.
I see 20 dollar plastic single model soldier-sized blisters from GW. The game actually expects you to field over a hundred troops and more than 15 vehicles nowadays. Three Sigmarines is 50 dollars as well in a box.
Infinity is played with 10-14 of the most high detail scifi minis available. It's not expensive by any rational sense as far as Minis gaming goes.
Comparing prices to GW is not a high bar to pass.
Locally, Infinity models are minimum $10au each (that's in an earlier 4 model box), and upwards of $25au each (larger heavy infantry). That's quite expensive for per model cost. So yes, Infinity miniatures are quite pricey. Not GW expensive, but pricey. They are metal, afterall.
Infinity as a game is not, but people won't know this unless they actually commit to trying it. People see a sci fi game and expect you're going to need multiple squads, a few TAGs and some expensive 'heroes'. Then the price skyrockets.
In reality, you need a starter, maybe a link box if you're going sectorial, and a few solo blisters, and you're done if that's all you want.
My ancient "lab"
I've been thinking about trying another wargame along with 40k, but never quite got into anything. Infinity caught my eye, and noticing that their starter kit is about $45, I might give it a spin!
Killionaire wrote: I don't understand how anyone sane can claim Infinity is expensive.
I see 20 dollar plastic single model soldier-sized blisters from GW. The game actually expects you to field over a hundred troops and more than 15 vehicles nowadays. Three Sigmarines is 50 dollars as well in a box.
Infinity is played with 10-14 of the most high detail scifi minis available. It's not expensive by any rational sense as far as Minis gaming goes.
Actually, Infinity absolutely is expensive provided you're not strictly buying online from discount retailers and/or not using Shaekonnit's split box service and/or you're looking to play strictly one Sectorial.
To give an example, this list, which is something I seriously want to do?
Spoiler:
Neoterran Capitaline Army ──────────────────────────────────────────────────
That list requires you to shell out close to $100($95.88 for two NCA boxes if bought at MSRP) for just the six Bolts with Combi Rifles+LSGs, since they come packed in the NCA starter set. They had a blister for a short time when they came out, so I'm basically set for my list but if a new player wanted to duplicate it? Tough; $100 with no discounts or much much cheaper depending on SK's willingness to split the boxes. Using The Warstore's discounted price, you're still looking at almost $90 including shipping for JUST the six Bolts with CR+LSGs.
Then you're looking at another $67.08, without discounted prices, for the Spitfire and Hacker Bolts(you luck out here as there's very little wasteage or overspill in prices with old sculpts driving up the price like the NCA starter). Still close to $60 with shipping factored in($53.98 before shipping) for those 4 models.
Bulleteer is reasonable, since it's part of a two model box and a decent sized model. Still $37 for the set, without discounts. $29.99 with Warstore's discounted price.
The Locust is probably going to be $12.30 without discount(the price for most single model blisters now), $9.99 with.
All told? That list comes out to $212.40 before sales tax, if bought at MSRP.
That's $212.40 for a 12 model list, where in order to purchase the first 10 models you had to buy duplicates of boxed sets just to obtain the parts you wanted.
You actually end up with as many models unused(2x Hexa Spitfires, 2x Aquila Guard MRs, 2x Swiss Guard MLs, 2x Bolts with MSRs, 2x Bolts with MLs) as the ones you wanted from those sets .
I'll totally admit that it's a very specific set of circumstances for this kind of thing, but it's not unheard of given the thing that gets most people into Infinity is the fact that they can make any kind of list and expect it to do if not amazing, at least reasonably well provided they play it well. I know of a couple of people who looked into buying Infinity locally and doing a kind of 'themed' list only to drop the idea after finding out they'd have to buy duplicate boxes for specific models thanks to CB's no alternate parts policies.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/06/08 15:25:33
Alpharius wrote: Do we think that many people pay 'full retail' for INFINITY miniatures though?
I'm not sure many do - and if they are, well....OK?
Very few people do, but that doesn't actually change the point I made.
A player is still looking at a hefty expenditure, just for a 12 model 300 point list--of which you end up with 11 models 'spare' thanks to the silly policies of CB refusing to add alternate arms to boxed sets or to have three model blisters for the "basic trooper" portion of starter sets--if they decide to go duplicates or Sectorial or even take advantage of the AVA: Total aspect of their 'basic' troopers.
A player is still looking at a hefty expenditure, just for a 12 model 300 point list--of which you end up with 11 models 'spare' thanks to the silly policies of CB refusing to add alternate arms to boxed sets or to have three model blisters for the "basic trooper" portion of starter sets--if they decide to go duplicates or Sectorial or even take advantage of the AVA: Total aspect of their 'basic' troopers.
...I would like to see alternate arms added into the box sets, and that 3-model basic trooper blister idea sounds good too!
Alpharius wrote: Do we think that many people pay 'full retail' for INFINITY miniatures though?
I'm not sure many do - and if they are, well....OK?
Very few people do, but that doesn't actually change the point I made.
It kind of does, since you based it on a now admittedly faulty premise, but:
Not faulty, just rare. There are some shops which don't (shock! horror!) sell Infinity stuff at a discount. It's not unheard of for people to buy stuff at MSRP in those circumstances(impulse buys)--or directly from Corvus Belli for that matter.
That's why I (at least I thought I did in all cases) made specific mention of the prices as MSRP and then listed the discounted prices for individual items as well.
Just to make it more fair and clear:
$212.40 MSRP, before sales tax, for the list I put up there.
$173.94 discounted, before sales tax, for the list I put up there.
It's probably not even breaking $100 if you buy the stuff via SK but I've got no interest in supporting that split box nonsense.
That price is for 5 boxes and a single blister though, and a VERY specific list that won't even be remotely playable if you decide to change Sectorials or play Vanilla PanOceania.
A player is still looking at a hefty expenditure, just for a 12 model 300 point list--of which you end up with 11 models 'spare' thanks to the silly policies of CB refusing to add alternate arms to boxed sets or to have three model blisters for the "basic trooper" portion of starter sets--if they decide to go duplicates or Sectorial or even take advantage of the AVA: Total aspect of their 'basic' troopers.
...I would like to see alternate arms added into the box sets, and that 3-model basic trooper blister idea sounds good too!
The sad part is, they did three basic trooper blisters and then stopped. No real clue as to why, aside from the usual suspects who are "in the know" with CB claiming that it was to protect retailers from having wasted space.
Voted "other" because I played Infinity for a while before stopping.
Price was not the main reason. It was the time needed to fully enjoy the game.
For a skirmish game, Infinity takes a lot of time to be played. The highly detailed rules are behind this fact; effectively, each model in the game has a special rule, be it from its equipment or its abilities. Most of them have several of them. Weapons profiles are like Necromunda, but a step further; all of them have different ranges and modifiers, and I'm not even talking about their actual special rules. Damn, even the same weapon can have a different effect just because of ammunitions!
You spend a lot of time in game as well, because you always are checking for something, be it your turn or your opponent's : mainly line of sight, wondering what the reactions would be and always trying to see if each of your models can spot something. You have to be careful of markers on the board as well. And you better have a detailed list at hand so that you can remember all the tricks you actually were counting on.
Setting the game up is also quite time expensive. Because the way Infinity rules are designed, you MUST play on a board with plenty of LOS breaking obstacles/scenery. Needless to say,, it takes time to put them all on the board...and put them back on their shelves/boxes after the game.
And you need the markers, and you need the templates, and you need the rulebook, and you need the lists...gah. Don't get me wrong, Infinity is a wonderful detailed game and if it is your main one, putting all your energy into it and play on a regular basis, it's really a great experience. You can use a lot of tricks to "save time" and special rules become less a hindrance when you play on a regular basis and thus getting most of them as a habit.
But if you play other game systems outside of it and/or not on a regular basis, then it can become quite tiring to play a single game and spending 4 hours to just look 10 models fighting 10 others and not even being able to go to the end of the game because you spent too much time on remembering the rules, setting up the game and having to stop because the players have to go home can be frustrating sometimes.
Basically, it's a wonderful game for RPG/campaign mode. But it's not a good skirmish "quick and fun" game, IMHO. For casual gamers, I wouldn't recommand it.
This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2016/06/09 06:29:43
Kanluwen wrote: The sad part is, they did three basic trooper blisters and then stopped. No real clue as to why, aside from the usual suspects who are "in the know" with CB claiming that it was to protect retailers from having wasted space.
It wasn't wasted space, it was the size of the range getting unwieldy for new stores to know what to order. Dropping 3 model line infantry packs to move into starter boxes, and 2 model linked team/warband/etc packs to move into boxes greatly reduced - at the time - the amount of SKU's. The amount of new units coming out has pushed it right back up again though. Infinity has one of the broadest ranges of miniatures on the market right now.
Kanluwen, your agenda is showing.
You're making a very unrealistic list, using models that are included in a larger pack with more models. You even said you've got a ton of other models not in that list (Which are might I add, very good models frequently used)
Then using that to make the price substantially worse than it seems. It's like if I claimed my list included 30 Desperados or Kums, then claimed that the average infinity list cost 500 dollars.
I mean, compare it to the Onyx Force Box that's coming out for 99 USD, for a playable, competitive army with their army list book and some paper terrain. Not much different from the 'Start Collecting' GW sets, but a full force.
I collect the minis because they're beautiful, but the game rules are just too cumbersome for me to really get into. I know it's tough wanting to represent the diversity of equipment and skills of various factions/races but there's way too many special rules and weird multi-level rules. It just seems like I couldn't play without constantly referencing the book.
Not to say everything has to be dumbed down to rolling a fistful of d6s and a chart, but there are systems that are much tighter and more intuitive while also having special rules.
I prefer to buy from miniature manufacturers that *don't* support the overthrow of democracy.
No wonder no one cares or comments on my infinity models! Lol jk jk... In all seriousness....
This game is fantastic. The rules are a bit more complex I think but that does make for a much more intense game play with some real crazy strategies available to the clever minded.
It goes without saying, being a huge fan of cyber punk. Ghost in the sheLl et al,that I LOVE the esthetic of the models and art. My ONLY gripe, is that I wish the models were a bigger scale. They are so cool and so detailed, but only the sharp and curious eye will enjoy such a small scale. Otherwise, from the tabletop, the coolness sometimes gets overlooked.
I'm hoping INFINTY gains even more popularity!!! If you like Appleseed etc etc check it out.
bebopdrums2424 wrote: No wonder no one cares or comments on my infinity models! Lol jk jk... In all seriousness....
This game is fantastic. The rules are a bit more complex I think but that does make for a much more intense game play with some real crazy strategies available to the clever minded.
It's a game you have to jump all in, there's no room for the casual gamer. Too many rules, equipment, special rules with special equipment to keep track of. Otherwise you just sit at the other side of the table saying "okay" a lot and not knowing what half your stuff does, 3/4 of the opponent stuff and 9/10 of the interactions between each other.
Kinda what's happening with X-Wing, too, but out of those two I'm picking Han Solo (if only because my kid loves the ships even though he's too small to actually play)
bebopdrums2424 wrote: No wonder no one cares or comments on my infinity models! Lol jk jk... In all seriousness....
This game is fantastic. The rules are a bit more complex I think but that does make for a much more intense game play with some real crazy strategies available to the clever minded.
It's a game you have to jump all in, there's no room for the casual gamer. Too many rules, equipment, special rules with special equipment to keep track of.
I feel this sums it up for me.
I played through the Icestorm missions and I will say it is a wonderfully designed ruleset, and the models are fantastic, but for someone who wouldn't get to play it regularly it just has way too many nuances for me to keep up with the rules. It didn't help that not many of my friends and gamer buddies were really all that interested. It's a cool game, and if you have the time to devote to the system, I think you can get a lot of enjoyment from it. I'd rather stick to playing a handful of games that are less rules dense and that I can play more regularly though.
I would have gone for it more, but the models are too expensive. Mantis makes 10 times the models for the same price and they are just as easy to paint. . . Still I played it twice and got 2 starter boxes never built or painted.
I am not interested in it as a game. It has some really nice models across all of the factions, but none of the factions as a whole appeal to me. That is the primary reason I don't play or even collect, a single factions as a whole doesn't hold my interest.
27th Member of D.O.O.M.F.A.R.T.
Resident Battletech Guru.
Neoterran Capitaline Army
10
BOLT Lieutenant Combi Rifle + Light Shotgun / Pistol, Knife. (0 | 22)
LOCUST (Marksmanship L1) Marksman Rifle / Pistol, Shock 
BULLETEER Heavy Shotgun / Electric Pulse. (0 | 17)
jk jk... In all seriousness....
Lord Fue Fue 
Has Spoken 
