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Kal-El wrote:Cool I am glad the system caught it. I did not even realize it until today when I looked at the scores and I readded the points again in a room with no one in it lol. Seriously I had to restart adding 5 times on the calc because people were talking to me lol and would forget where I left off on the adding...I mean how hard is 5 numbers and one was a 5 and one was a 0 rofl. Forgot to hit clear and was glad I got through all 5 numbers lol.

Well, you weren't the only one, and that includes us putting in the numbers! That is why those safeguards are there. Maybe next year each team should have a co-captain that can double check everything and make sure all of the columns are filled out, including peoples names!!

asmodai650 wrote:

Kal-El wrote:Cool I am glad the system caught it. I did not even realize it until today when I looked at the scores and I readded the points again in a room with no one in it lol. Seriously I had to restart adding 5 times on the calc because people were talking to me lol and would forget where I left off on the adding...I mean how hard is 5 numbers and one was a 5 and one was a 0 rofl. Forgot to hit clear and was glad I got through all 5 numbers lol.

Well, you weren't the only one, and that includes us putting in the numbers! That is why those safeguards are there. Maybe next year each team should have a co-captain that can double check everything and make sure all of the columns are filled out, including peoples names!!

I guess we can all be a little special at times lol. Just ask anyone I played when it came time to do a scatter template. It appears that every time I pick up a scatter dice and 2 D6 I instantly get stupid and can't subtract the result buy 4. I think it is how my bRain registers the dice as 2 numbers that I'm trying to subtract buy four but think what my bs skill is but get messed up because I hit on 3... Nvm see lol also I wanna say thank you to the judges- you guys did a great job on all the cases I needed yOur opinion, I love learning.

Hey peoples. Like Kramer I am more of a lurker since getting into internet flame matches was a waste of my time, and so now I just read and troll the blogosphere. Also like Kramer I have to agree with his sentiment on one particular team and feel that something should be voiced. I was on the road all of yesterday and during our trip I was ranting and fuming over the same team, my game and what I saw there. I am glad someone else posted about this before me because it curbed my defamatory flame into a rant. At least two of the Jack Booted Thugs were quite honestly astonishingly poor sportsmen. I understand the tournament argument, and the win-at-all-costs ideology, but there was no reason for the manner in which they conducted themselves during gameplay.

I played their guard player, and I have to say, it was one of the worst games I have ever played. He allegedly pulled some rather shady moves during the game I played against him and I didn’t realize it until after the game was over and I was bemoaning my experience to my teammates. They were rules I should have called him on, but I thought I knew them fairly well, apparently I did not. Now I am a very easy going person, some people told me that they would have given me fours or fives if possible on sportsmanship, and I get along with pretty much anybody, but this kid just had no desire to have a fun game, and didn’t engage me in any other way except wanting to kick my army’s ass.

Their blood angel player introduced himself as “Ok, now who wants to lose?” That was followed by frequent attempts at asshattery (which was caught each time) on one our team members during play. Issues regarding targeting and shooting, cover and the like were so blatant in most cases that when the judge came over to investigate the claim, he simply looked at the situation and ruled in favor of fairness within a few seconds, as if the question itself was foolish. For things as simple as distance, cover saves and line of sight, a judge had to be called over to their table four times, each time ruling in our favor. The player was being slightly ridiculous. Not to mention almost all of his army was barely partially painted and most was not painted or even primed. I will however say that by the end of the game, the two players were fine with each-other, but the shenanigans had left a lasting impression.

The space wolves player, I heard, was trying some old school dice rolling method: “Rolling-a-two-behind-terrain-and-telling-you-the-result-was-a-six” with one of the guys I talked to and played earlier at the event, but he clearly saw the roll on a few occasions and called him out on it. My teammate didn’t have anything incredibly bad to say about him but I don’t think he cared either way to comment as he didn’t experience anything horrible first hand.

Now this is conjecture, but I have to disagree with Kramer’s opinion about their Ork-player. I have played in a few tournaments over the years. Mostly singles a few doubles and this one. In my early ones (back in third ed) there were some events that had time limits imposed upon a player turn. People didn’t generally bring a bunch of Tyranid, Ork boy, or I.G. models in excess of sixty or seventy because it would put you at a disadvantage time-wise. This Ork player had well over a hundred-and-fifty models in his army. Taking into consideration the company he keeps, and how three of his games went (hearing from two other players that had played him, and the one that was on my team) it is my belief that he built a denial army that was by its very design slow to play. It is important to note that I am not saying he deliberately played as a staller, but that the impression was that his list by its very makeup was built to do so. This is legal, but seems to me like a douchey thing to do even more so than anything Grey Knights. I know there were other Ork armies there but I don’t know their makeups or anyone who played them.
I played on the table next to him, and from frequently looking over at it, they barely moved along in their turns and never even made it past half of turn four. With a mob of thirty boys, unless you are dealing out twenty-one-plus instant death attacks or have a huge amount of flamers you are not able to kill those units. It just seems too obvious a tactic to me that all they would have to do is pit him against armies that could not physically stop a unit of ork boys in two turns, and the players would then never get very far in a game for it to be a themed above the board list. Against our player, he took twenty-five minutes to deploy for a two and change hour game. Was he a nice guy? Sure, but it’s easy to be nice when you are winning every game because there aren’t enough turns to kill your models and you can easily dismiss any accusations by just pointing to the size of your army. He conducted himself rather well, and we’ll see how this pans out in sixth. I think turn limits would be a great thing to add to this kind of event considering what I witnessed and heard of.

As a side note, I think that prize support should have gone to the overall winner brackets and not to best-of-round wins (or as well as). I have never been to a tournament that the top two or three players or teams didn’t get some form of prize support in models, gift certs or cash. The message I took away here is that if your team trounces their opponents in every game getting an amazing amount of wins then they deserve more than the overall winners of a two day event. I am not sure (other than the skulls) what the BoLS team got, but 2nd through 5th received counters that everyone got a version of simply by showing up to the event. So I essentially paid $8 per counter, and we had to place in the top five to even get that.

In summation, I played a few good players, one really great one, and one person who should stop doing anything involving other human beings. I had a good time, even though it was exhausting, and our team placed, so I am happy with the event overall. It would have made it worth our while though would there have been some prize support for the actual winners as well, considering the amount the event must have cost, and what it cost for us to participate. I appreciate all the hard work done by the organizers, and I really do think that with an event as large as this, and with the amount of logistics involved in scoring between players and teams, that it was run rather smoothly. Thanks guys and gals for all the time and effort.

With regards to the prize support, I am going to have to throw in with Clan Company Captain.

While it was awesome to receive a Battleforce for being the Round Champions, I felt a little cheesy seeing the placing teams walking away with counters of some sort.

If anything, I would probably be willing to pay a little more for the event if it means more parity when it comes to Prize Support.

Hey guys, just touching base every few comments or so here...

The sports issues are being or have been dealt with and we strive hard to make sure that history does not repeat itself in these situations. Be careful to not let one or two players form your view of an entire group though please. Especially in an event where its several on a team. I know that many of the teams had players that barely knew each other before the event.

As far as prizes go, we honestly thought that at least the top 3 teams would have been teams that finished best overall at least one round during the event...but much to our surprise after rd 6 we were wrong...
In the future we will make sure there are at trophies and/or prize support guaranteed for the top 3-5 teams.
But if those trophies and the title of "Best Team in America" isnt enough of a prize, is adding a Battleforce going to really be the thing to make it "worth it"?

I don't really think a Battle Force would be Worth it so a valid point there.

Also, another Valid point on the battle force comment. Would I be mistaken in thinking that none of the top 5 teams received Round Champions after all?

I think that they meant 2nd through 5th place only getting tokens instead of battleforces (provided they didn't win a round), while some teams did poorly but won a round and walked away with a battleforce.

Looking at the spirit they were going in for the Champions, had a team really gone balls to the wall, you'd expect the top performing team to walk away with at least 2 Battle Boxes to come out on top.

Yeah it was crazy, we really thought that the top teams would win at least a round. But only Chicago Jack Booted Thugs walked away with battleforces. All the other teams that won rounds finished like 7th place or lower. Crazy LOL



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We really did feel bad that teams 2 and 3 didn't go home with something besides tokens.

Kevin from the Reapers here. Yeah, all the top teams where busy beating each other up. We got 4th and we played all three teams above us!

Ah the best laid plans of Ork and Men hehhehe

Goatboy from Wrecking BOLS here - as usual this was a great event. I had a lot of fun and we were lucky enough to get the win in the end. We got beaten up a lot in some of our match ups.

I was just happy to come home with a Skull. I know a Battleforce would have been nice but do I really need another one? I think spreading out the prizes is the best thing to come to events lately as everyone walks away feeling like they got something.

Shane I had a great weekend and look forward to what 6th brings to this event next year. A big thanks to Paul for putting me up and driving my stanky ass to the event. A big 80's high five to Casey for helping us win. Rob and Kenny were also great as well.

I was happy to hang out with people I don't get to see all the time and meet a bunch of other players. It's the chance to meet up with people that really makes these events for me.

Thanks again Shane and hope to see you next year so our team gets a chance to 3 peat.

(And truthfully I just wanted that skull trophy more then anything else heh - it goes with my Shield from last year and the big metal Hammer from Adepticon a few years ago).

year one we handed out prizes based on top players and this time we didnt which was a mistake on our part thinking they would be the top players anyway. Next time we have decided to go a different route which is the best of both worlds. We will do trophies as before and also Battle Force to each team member in the top three teams. each round we will also do the medium sized GW boxes (terminators, command barges, etc...) for the top scoring teams each round. So each team member each round that is from the top scoring team will choose from them.

I apologize for any issues that may have come up during the event. We are working on fixing any of these for the next and future events.

please feel free to send any concerns and or suggestions to improve the event to either shane or i.

chris@grandadventurescomics.com



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The tokens werent meant to be a prize per se. The Battleforces and trophies along with saying your the top team was the real prize. We just made the mistake of thinking the top teams would win rounds to get prizes but as stated above it will no longer be the way we do it.

Kenny here from wrekingBOLS
It was an awesome event, i enjoyed all my games and had a blast. seems like a strength of schedule mechanic would be awesome! We played some some great teams!
Blade N Bolter(my personal friend Aldonis and his club mates)
Codex Toledo (Greg Sparks , and our friendly rivals from Toledo)
Quality Control(Never met these guys but ...damn a serious match up)
Chicago Hot dogs(Allan Pajama pants and most of the kamikazes)

I really wish we got to play the "thugs" lolz
Great Opponents all weekend!

Next Level wrote:Kenny here from wrekingBOLS
Chicago Hot dogs(Alan Pajama pants and most of the kamikazes)

One game for vengance completed and there is one left to claim. Thats you Kenny.....

The Chicago Hotdogs had a great time down in Tenn for the big ATC. I definatly enjoy seeing friends from all over and getting in some great games in against the best of the best.

Teams we played where:

Front Armor 15
19th Company
BOLS Wrecking Crew
Blade and Bolter
Tony Kopach's Team (Not the correct name)
General's Staff

Reccomendation for next year:

1) Have team battle points score printed on the round parings each round. This way we all know where we stand.
2) I like the idea for prize support already voiced it was what I was going to reccommend.
3) I would like to see a 10 Codex Max next year with no duplicates of any kind. This would be interesting! So you have to decide what Codex's are main army picks and what codexes are just for Allies.
4) I would steer away from the raw Battle Point System: I like the ETC round winner system better. You could make it be 1 Pts for a team Win and 2 Points for a big team win so slaugther's are still rewarded but not as much. I think this would lead to better team dinamics and more tactical approaches. Otherwise I think the event just favors the team that obliterates everyone each match and it seems that is not the approach you guys want to take.
5) Great improvements and awesome trophies this year! I am looking forword to the third ATC event.

Thanks,
Alan Pajama Pants Bajramovic

am I the only one who thinks 9a-9p instead of 7-7 would have been better?

7-7 gets you out in time to find a restaurant, eat and sleep at a reasonable hour in my opinion but I have to say, 4 games a day is grueling either way.

I recognize the desire to get out early on sunday, but why not split the games 3-3

Personally, I'd rather get home a little later than be constantly rushing.

No complaints though. The ATC was awesome. I'll be back.

I'm down with splitting games to 3-3 as long as the venue allows it...they may have had to wrap up early due to the mall closing early.

To the guys that had a bad experience. I am really sorry you had those. The major thing we all have to remember is that there was 160 players there for the tournament. Of those 160 players it sounds like only a small handful of people had problems with someone. To me that is a huge success! I understand that you might have left with a bitter taste in your mouth over a few incidents, but please don't think the entire tournament was like that as most people had a lot of fun with their opponents.

As far as the Ork player that got 175/180 points - no matter how you look at it thats HUGE, and stalling does not seem like a tatic that would net him that many points...meaning he won KP's, got squads to the other side of the board to contest the base, and took the 3 objs, or contested 2 and held his. A lot of times people are often put into a cateogory with the company they keep, but that person may not be like the company at all. Another thing to consider is that he or their team may not be best buddies or what not. My team knew each other but we were not really good friends per say...as we don't hang out or anything and we are each our own player not like minded.

Again I am sorry that some people had bad results with their opponents, but don't throw the tournament under the bus because of that, and please don't automaticly assume that someone is like their "team" just because he is on said team esp when no one has anything bad to say about the player. I understand the frustration, but let the man enjoy his win because he almost played a perfect tournament and I feel like he deserves the trophy no matter the accusations based on his teammates.

The TO's and judges great job and I am looking forward to next year.

Kal-El wrote:To the guys that had a bad experience. I am really sorry you had those. The major thing we all have to remember is that there was 160 players there for the tournament. Of those 160 players it sounds like only a small handful of people had problems with someone. To me that is a huge success! I understand that you might have left with a bitter taste in your mouth over a few incidents, but please don't think the entire tournament was like that as most people had a lot of fun with their opponents.
.

This is absolutely true. I only had issues with 1 out of the 5 people I played. And 2 of my games, against Andrew Oneal from Sons of Vulcan and Marc Parker of Wrecking Crew were absolutely fantastic, so its a good trade off.

Something to keep in mind, a lot of people come to GTs with unrealistic expectations, and as soon as something goes slightly wrong game 1, they feel the whole weekend has been ruined.

Tony - THanks for the comments!

We are working on hours for next year but we will always try to be wrapped up by 3:00 at the very latest on Sunday for those driving and flying back home.

Thanks again guys!



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Ok guys
ABout 600 Pictures are up from this year at

https://www.facebook.com/ATC40k

Check Them Out!

hahaah, yes, my pink marines are the top of the gallery!

Being a fellow Horde Ork player two years in a row at ATC, I can tell you that the ability and opportunity to slow play is there. I finished all of my games by turn 4 or 5 this year, and had no complaints that I know of; I had 193 models this year on the table.
Horde Ork is arguably a great army to use in the ATC format in the 5th. Especially with all the objectives, low KP and attrition. So it's not always a slow playing team tactic. I've been slow played by IG more than anything else, and it was not in the strategy to do that ever for our team.

Last year I had a really great time despite the amenities issues. I also had a great time despite a WAAC Internet Famous personality that I played the first round, and another 'modeling for advantage' player another round.

I now take pictures of where the objectives are at the beginning of the round, and I take pictures before 'game changing' situations are about to occur. This keeps everyone honest, even if they are already.

I also discuss my intentions with my opponent (and ask them theirs) at key times to help them insure they achieve what it is they think they can achieve, either through movement or shooting or assault. This helps in so many ways, one of which there's no (what I call) indecisive-Movement-gain. Another is the assumption of assault order of operations and capabilities. This conversation lets my opponent know that I'm ok with them winning, and/or capitalizing on any of my errors that they might be able to take advantage. I don't hand it to them, but if I ask, "So, what are you thinking tactically right now?" every time they have honestly answered, and that facilitates a great damn game, every time.

I also will never again, not call a judge over. From that point on I learned to scream "shenanigans", for any hint of shoddy cheating, whether intentional or not. And I'm talking about the guys who should know better, not the guys who obviously don't know the core game mechanics that truly come out to just talk and roll dice. I came much more prepared for crap players with a reason to impress their friends with winnings.

This year however, every single player I had the luxury of being paired against was a great sport, and competitive at the same time; I know, a shocker!
The event location, amenities, and terrain were all outstanding. It's an event everyone should get the chance to attend.

We wanted to win the Battleforces but missed out. We chose the wrong round to be good, ha! I understand the oddness of none of the top ranking teams getting the option for some loot, but if any of you skull winners wants to trade it for a Battleforce just let me know, I'll throw in and extra just for good measure.

-JBW (Ork Player) for lClAGE

Ok guys, New thread has been started for ATC 2013!
Consider this the last post for 2012!
Thanks again!
-Shane

Here's the link: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/487829.page