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Joey wrote:You're obsessed with that dog.
I actually think it looks rather sweet.

TBone is very sweet, lurking you in..then BAM! POW! skitter skitter skitter KCHUNK! KCHUNK! KCHUNK! (ball hits wall, Troy catches ball, shuffles back-that part can take awhile-squeeze squeeze squeeze as he chews the ball) - then repeat 47 more times.

Joey wrote:You're obsessed with that dog.
I actually think it looks rather sweet.

That's what they want you to think.

I never thought I'd ever be laughing so hard about such a serious subject, but damn, people, these last few posts have gotten me to the point where I can barely breath!
Starting with Matty's posts and everyone getting worked up by it to Joey insinuating he's out to rape him a Royal Marine To teach him a lesson, followed by Machete and the Weiner.... Not to mention strap on wearing female rapists roaming the country side as presented by Melissa.
All I can say is in before lock!

Relapse wrote:I never thought I'd ever be laughing so hard about such a serious subject, but damn, people, these last few posts have gotten me to the point where I can barely breath!
Starting with Matty's posts and everyone getting worked up by it to Joey insinuating he's out to rape him a Royal Marine To teach him a lesson, followed by Machete and the Weiner.... Not to mention strap on wearing female rapists roaming the country side as presented by Melissa.
All I can say is in before lock!

Its people like these that make Dakka Dakka a hilarious place. Where they can sum up this thread and make fun of it. In all seriousness this is a very serious discussion!

I still can't believe how rude officers are to some people about crimes here in reporting them.

I'm far too pissed to reply to everything at the moment, Ill just merely point out that if Joey attempted to rape me at knife point I would despatch him with consumate ease. If I deemed that was impossible, I would play along and pretend to be submissive, before taking him in my mouth, savagely biting his wanger off at the hilt, and then spit his bell-end into the corner and break dance on it.

mattyrm wrote:I'm far too pissed to reply to everything at the moment, Ill just merely point out that if Joey attempted to rape me at knife point I would despatch him with consumate ease. If I deemed that was impossible, I would play along and pretend to be submissive, before taking him in my mouth, savagely biting his wanger off at the hilt, and then spit his bell-end into the corner and break dance on it.

I'm a bit worried about you matty.

mattyrm wrote:I'm far too pissed to reply to everything at the moment, Ill just merely point out that if Joey attempted to rape me at knife point I would despatch him with consumate ease. If I deemed that was impossible, I would play along and pretend to be submissive, before taking him in my mouth, savagely biting his wanger off at the hilt, and then spit his bell-end into the corner and break dance on it.

Men can be raped by women in more than one way. If its the male penetrating the female it can still be rape. The male appendage reacts to stimulation, not your willpower so even if you don't want to its still going to happen.

If not that way then you'd be surprised at the amount of sex toys that have empowered women.

Joey wrote:

mattyrm wrote:I'm far too pissed to reply to everything at the moment, Ill just merely point out that if Joey attempted to rape me at knife point I would despatch him with consumate ease. If I deemed that was impossible, I would play along and pretend to be submissive, before taking him in my mouth, savagely biting his wanger off at the hilt, and then spit his bell-end into the corner and break dance on it.

oh you rough boy

When I logged in to Dakka today, the last thing I expected to read was mattyrm describing how he would fend off a rapist.

This is the greatest thread I've come across in quite some time.

Monster Rain wrote:When I logged in to Dakka today, the last thing I expected to read was mattyrm describing how he would fend off a rapist.

This is the greatest thread I've come across in quite some time.

That's Matty!

*insert sitcom laugh track*

Monster Rain wrote:When I logged in to Dakka today, the last thing I expected to read was mattyrm describing how he would fend off a rapist.

This is the greatest thread I've come across in quite some time.

Wait 'til you meet him! Honestly, this is mild. Matty Light, if you will.

So wish I was coming over too.

Me too, Alby. When can I expect you to grace my local pub scene?

I'm afraid rape is very prominent in the US. I live in a middle class zone and I've met at least 5 women who've been raped (not including the ones who say it happened to them for attention)

Its a sick fethed up thing. I honestly think it's american culture, not to bash my own country but every where I go people eye me up like they want to fight me. You can't go through Philadelphia without feeling like someone wants to kick your ass for whatever reason. In fact in the low crime rate part where I live, the teenagers around here eye me up and I'm at least 5 years older then them. It really gets to me.

Sometimes I think about getting in their face and causing something because I get sick of it, but i just flip them off and they turn their heads. God what is this nation coming to? i feel like i want to break something.

Ok, Im up and only mildly hungover, so I shall rescue this train-wreck of a thread with my usual brand of subtle and nuanced diplomacy and get it back on track.

I would like to thank everyone for contributing however, as the first two pages gave me some further insight into the conversation I had with the missus, about what possible reasons could contribute to a higher percentage of rape in a country that is so similar to my own. Perhaps it is simply that we don't report it as much here, or perhaps it is indeed due to some subtle differences in our culture...

Now lets try and draw a line under the man rape thing, because Ive got Joey coming round to try and rape me at 1400hrs and I don't want to keep the lad waiting.

Rented Tritium wrote:

Most male on female rapes are NOT forcible. Why should female on male rapes be any different? Social pressure makes men not fight back against women. They're afraid of being ostracized. They're afraid of being called gay. The rapist may even say she'll tell everyone he raped her if he doesn't, etc.

Believe it or not, a boner and failure to fight back does not constitute consent.

Basically it can happen in all of the exact same ways a woman can be raped without force.

But I suspect you're one of those people who thinks that it's not real rape unless force is used, given some of your posts itt.

This post is basically the crux of it, and I suspect the reason why people like Frazz and Monster are pitching in, because they understand exactly what I am attempting to say. I didn't say that men cannot be raped by heterosexual women (as I and Mel pointed out, lets not even mention ill tempered obese lesbians with a penchant for sodomizing men armed with cattle pods and strap on dildos) I said that they are so staggeringly rare in comparison it is hardly worth talking about.

Rented Tritium wrote:Why should female on male rapes be any different?

They should. If you can sit there and tell me with a straight face that men and women can both be verbally "pressured" into sex with equal measure, your flagrantly pushing the boundaries of reality and inventing really really unlikely gak to try and defend your point. You can try and smear my argument by saying "Oh your no different than a man who says a woman deserves it if she wears a short skirt!" but the fact is, if a woman is in a bedroom with a man and he is constantly harassing her for sex, and she is telling him no repeatedly, there may be a point where she feels as though he COULD escalate the situation and then give in to sex in order to stop this from occurring, thus I can see how it could be easy for a woman to be raped without force being used, but for a man?!

If you are in a bedroom with a chick, and this has actually happened to me (see earlier!) who demands sex even though you really don't want to sleep with her, and you say no numerous times, and she wont let you sleep, and you keep saying "leave me alone" "let me sleep" "no" "no" and she says "your not leaving till you feth me" or "im not leaving you alone till you feth me" and this goes on and on and on, so eventually you make a decision, you really only have two choices, either a) Get up, dress, and stomp out the door despite all of her protests. Or b) Sigh, and plug the bunny boiler then hope she finally leaves you in peace.

This occurs, I'm sure something similar has happened to most men at some point.

Are you seriously suggetsing that If you take option B, you have just been RAPED!?

Does that not cheapen rape? In the same way that when a black bloke who gets pulled over by the police for doing 60 in a 30 zone and says "Its only cos Im black!" cheapens actual racism, you attempting the claim that men and women are identical in this situation cheapens rape for the actual victims, women who give in and sleep with a man because they genuinely fear the consequences of not doing so.

I can see your point, and I can see that some men would say "yes I have been raped and I am emotionally scarred by it" following a heterosexual rape, but seriously, what would the MAJORITY of men do in your non violence heterosexual rape scenario? You are attempting to paint my views as some ridiculous ultra ultra macho cage fighting, bear fething, beer swilling manly man or manness view but it isnt, its what ordniary blokes think, your average guy leans towards being relatively unconcerned by a woman pressuring them into sex, because they know that if they really really wanted to escape the situation they could. Your stance is more rare, because less men are ultra ultra sensitive and effeminate and genuinelly worry about being "non violently pressured" into sex with a woman.

Mate, men and women aren't biologically identical. That's just the way of it, a man and woman of equal height and weight the man will be far stronger due to a higher percentage of his body weight coming from muscle mass. So the whole "why should it be any different" line is just plain wrong. Maybe it makes sense to you on paper, but there is no common sense behind it. I certainly wouldn't classify one of your "non violent heterosexual rape" scenarios as a rape. Im pretty sure the majority of straight men wouldn't either.

Its merely a pain in the arse.

For once I agree with mattyrm.

It should be noted that the great majority of rapes are of women by men -- the woman-on-man scenario is pretty much a red herring.

Monster Rain wrote:Me too, Alby. When can I expect you to grace my local pub scene?

Not sure. Me and the missus are planning a 'big' holiday (as in, outside of Europe) for next year, but I have a funny feeling that going to California just so's I can meet up with Dakkanauts might be a hard sell! Still worth a shot, though.

When can I expect you to grace my local pub scene?

Kilkrazy wrote:For once I agree with mattyrm.

Hey we agreed once last year as well, remember?

Oh no.. sorry I think that was Karon.

To tell the truth, I can only see a male being raped by a woman in only three types of scenarios:

1- A child not old enough to defend himself against an adult

2- A totally terrified man with multiple armed assailants

3- Drugged

Anything outside of that seems like it would be stuff a guy wishes would happen.

Relapse wrote:
Anything outside of that seems like it would be stuff a guy wishes would happen.

So men just don't have the right to choose their sexual partners? Any sex they get that's not physical forced or drugged is just fun happy sex that all men want?


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mattyrm wrote:If you can sit there and tell me with a straight face that men and women can both be verbally "pressured" into sex with equal measure, your flagrantly pushing the boundaries of reality and inventing really really unlikely gak to try and defend your point.

This is the part where we have to stop arguing because you're going to make me lose composure.

Suffice it to say, this is in the running for being the most ignorant and offensive thing anyone has ever said on this board.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

If you are in a bedroom with a chick, and this has actually happened to me (see earlier!) who demands sex even though you really don't want to sleep with her, and you say no numerous times, and she wont let you sleep, and you keep saying "leave me alone" "let me sleep" "no" "no" and she says "your not leaving till you feth me" or "im not leaving you alone till you feth me" and this goes on and on and on, so eventually you make a decision, you really only have two choices, either a) Get up, dress, and stomp out the door despite all of her protests. Or b) Sigh, and plug the bunny boiler then hope she finally leaves you in peace.

This occurs, I'm sure something similar has happened to most men at some point.

Are you seriously suggetsing that If you take option B, you have just been RAPED!?

If a woman takes option B, she has been raped, but if a man does, he hasn't?

feth you

I think its time to pour a bit of cold water on this debate here, and everyone take 5 to cool off before we continue!

If you are in a bedroom with a chick, and this has actually happened to me (see earlier!) who demands sex even though you really don't want to sleep with her, and you say no numerous times, and she wont let you sleep, and you keep saying "leave me alone" "let me sleep" "no" "no" and she says "your not leaving till you feth me"
[...]
Are you seriously suggetsing that If you take option B, you have just been RAPED!?

I would not only suggest that is rape, but so would the law.

If you did this to me, I'd shoot you.

Numerous times in fact, either at the time or after the fact depending on how scared I was at the time (premeditated murder justified by rape is something juries eat up you know).

I think that's a good standard to live by; you know, hold others to the same standard as myself?

I think the problem is that Matt wants to argue about woman on man rape when it's clear that he doesn't actually understand man on woman rape in the first place.

He's saying men can't be raped with force because they're stronger, but THEN he says they can't be coerced EITHER.

So men are mentally AND physically stronger than women SO MUCH SO that it's horrifically unlikely that they'd be raped by them.

Going back to the A or B scenario. In the real world, it's not "you're not leaving until you do me", in the real world it's "if you don't do me, I'm telling everyone you raped me" or "if you don't do me, you're fired", "if you don't do me, I'll tell everyone you're a slut" etc etc etc. This is how most rapes are in BOTH directions.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And lets not forget the classic "I'm not the kind of person who gets raped, so I need to just suck this up so I don't get judged later"

That one's a real doozie.

Going back to the A or B scenario. In the real world, it's not "you're not leaving until you do me", in the real world it's "if you don't do me, I'm telling everyone you raped me" or "if you don't do me, you're fired", "if you don't do me, I'll tell everyone you're a slut" etc etc etc. This is how most rapes are in BOTH DIRECTIONS.


Under no circumstance would I have sex with a woman who said that to me. If she's already thinking in that direction I'm not going to gift her with physical evidence in the way of DNA, possible bits of my skin under her nails, etc. to use against me later.

Honestly, there is nothing else I need to say. I have mapped the logic out in my lengthy post above. RT, why are you so upset though? It is merely a difference of opinion, there is no need to spit your dummy out because heaven forbid someone disagree's with you.

Melissia wrote:I would not only suggest that is rape, but so would the law.

If you did this to me, I'd shoot you.

Numerous times in fact, either at the time or after the fact depending on how scared I was at the time (premeditated murder justified by rape is something juries eat up you know).

I think that's a good standard to live by; you know, hold others to the same standard as myself?

Same to Melissa, read the post. Did I not say that clearly the scenario is different for the sexes? Of course it is rape by the law, certainly if it is the man threatning the woman, but It really is different for a man to be "threatened" by a woman, are you such a militant feminist that you can't fathom what I am saying? Or that you cant admit that you are weaker than a man the same height and weight as you? If you attempted the same dialogue with a man 99% of them will laugh in your face.

No, men and women are not the same, they really arent. So no, a woman telling a man "your not leaving this room until you shag me" is not the same thing as a man saying it to a woman.

Most men would laugh in the woman's face because they know she has no way of forcing the issue. If the sexes change it becomes a far far more sinister scenario. You can push this PC agenda that "both sexes are 100% equal" in this matter, but common sense dictates otherwise.

As I said, lets just leave it there. Some men will agree with RT here, but I'm confident that the overwhelming majority of average straight men agree with me and not Tritium, but whatever floats your.. er.. rape boat?

mattyrm wrote:Did I not say that clearly the scenario is different for the sexes?

I know you did, and that is why you are wrong.

You have a very skewed and possibly misogynistic/chauvinistic (in the old fashioned non-malicious way) view of genders which I don't agree with, in case it isn't obvious.

mattyrm wrote: . RT, why are you so upset though?

I am upset because I am a man and you are saying that because I am a man, I have less right to sexual agency than a woman. I am mad that you are saying I should feel a certain way or do a certain thing just because I am a man.

I am mad because you are disrespecting my personal right to choose my sexual partner by implying that certain decisions are always a certain way because I have a penis.

Rented Tritium wrote:

mattyrm wrote: . RT, why are you so upset though?

I am upset because I am a man and you are saying that because I am a man, I have less right to sexual agency than a woman. I am mad that you are saying I should feel a certain way or do a certain thing just because I am a man.

Im not saying that at all mate. Look, here is what I said...

mattyrm wrote:I can see your point, and I can see that some men would say "yes I have been raped and I am emotionally scarred by it" following a heterosexual rape, but seriously, what would the MAJORITY of men do in your non violence heterosexual rape scenario? You are attempting to paint my views as some ridiculous ultra ultra macho cage fighting, bear fething, beer swilling manly man or manness view but it isnt, its what ordniary blokes think, your average guy leans towards being relatively unconcerned by a woman pressuring them into sex, because they know that if they really really wanted to escape the situation they could. Your stance is more rare, because less men are ultra ultra sensitive and effeminate and genuinelly worry about being "non violently pressured" into sex with a woman.

There you go. All I said was that the "majority" of men would feel like me, not none. Im not trying to upset or offend you, im just saying thats the way it is. And honestly mate, it really is. I'm not saying that no men would feel really upset and offended, but generally speaking a guy is not as concerned when the roles are reversed because he is confident he can overpower his would be attacker.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Melissia wrote:

mattyrm wrote:Did I not say that clearly the scenario is different for the sexes?

I know you did, and that is why you are wrong.

You have a very skewed and possibly misogynistic/chauvinistic (in the old fashioned non-malicious way) view of genders which I don't agree with, in case it isn't obvious.

No offense taken by the way...

Yeah so what Im saying is that on paper yes the situations should be treated the same, but in reality they shouldn't.

I mean, if you were on a jury, would you convict a 105lb woman for "raping" a 220lb man in the above situation? I think that this line here should be taken as pivotal to my argument.

mattyrm wrote:your average guy leans towards being relatively unconcerned by a woman pressuring them into sex, because they know that if they really really wanted to escape the situation they could.

mattyrm wrote:
There you go. All I said was that the "majority" of men would feel like me, not none. Im not trying to upset or offend you, im just saying thats the way it is. And honestly mate, is it.

The "majority" of women who are raped don't report it and convince themselves it didn't count because of social pressures.

Does that make it not rape or unlikely?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Matt, you have a fundamental misunderstanding of how rape OF ANY KIND works.

mattyrm wrote:
I can see your point, and I can see that some men would say "yes I have been raped and I am emotionally scarred by it" following a heterosexual rape, but seriously, what would the MAJORITY of men do in your non violence heterosexual rape scenario?

There's a reasonable argument that men cannot be raped by women in the conventional sense due to the fact that rape, by definition, requires penetration. That doesn't mean its impossible for men to be raped by women, its just much more difficult and much less likely, primarily due to biological limitations (women lack convenient "equipment" and are generally much less capable, physically, than men). Now, this doesn't mean that women cannot pressure men into sex via the implied, or explicit threat of force; its simply much less likely, barring extenuating circumstances (weaponry, an unusual distribution of physical ability) than the inverse situation. However, despite common perception to the contrary, if the man in question really doesn't have any interest in intercourse its fairly unlikely that he will be capable of engaging in it in the conventional sense, as no one, male or female, responds only to physical stimulation when it comes to sexuality.

Finally, and this may have been brought up before, but the crux of rape is consent. Simply pressuring someone into sex, whereby that pressure is not based on coercion, is not necessarily rape. If a woman, or man, is not initially interested in sex, but their potential partner is begging for it, or attempting to convince them that its a good idea, and the reluctant party eventually ascents then that party is not being raped as consent has been, per my understanding, freely given. The removal of that freedom to consent comes when force (or the threat of) becomes an issue, which as I noted above, is generally more likely where the man is applying coercive tactics by implicit, or explicit, action.