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nomsheep wrote:

1d4chan wrote: There is a disturbing tendency in Matt Ward's works to have the Sisters of Battle get horribly butchered in roughly 70% of the fluff that Ward has thus far written. Whilst the penultimate example is the Khornate Knights incident, there's at least half-a-dozen works in official canon since the release of the new edition rulebook where the Sisters get horrifically butchered or worse. Virtually the entire Sisters of Battle army was retconned out of existence by the omission of two paragraphs of text in the fifth-edition rulebook, and there are multiple cases of the sisters being corrupted, destroyed, and/or massacred.

Nom

Luke_prowler wrote:
There isn't a single argument in this thread that hasn't been done a thousand times over, so we're already up to our knees in glue. Besides, the question was why we hate Ward, and the SOB murder-thon is a valid reason

I do believe i mentioned that here.

Nom

Luke_Prowler wrote:

nomsheep wrote:

Luke_Prowler wrote:Can we move on from the NecronxBlood Angel thing and focus on something else?

Like Blood Tide from the GK codex. That's always a fun one

Well and truly flogged the grey knights and that particular dead horse.

Nom

There isn't a single argument in this thread that hasn't been done a thousand times over, so we're already up to our knees in glue. Besides, the question was why we hate Ward, and the SOB murder-thon is a valid reason

But hasn't that SOB murder-thon argument been a thousand times over as well? So why bother right?

Anyway I will talk about my cents on that one. There was no need for it, and it is stupid, and fetish fuel. I can see the twisted logic behind it, but it is just stupid and should not be there. And rustles my jimmies almost as much as them using Daemon Weapons now. I just don't like thinking about that abomination of a Codex all together.

Vault of Labyrinths... Vault.... of Labyrinths. HOW DO YOU HAVE A VAULT OF LABYRINTHS!? HOW!? ARGGGHHH!

Sorry I need to go take a rage break and punch something. Someone have a baby I could borrow? That is how angry Mat Ward's Codex Grey Knights makes me.

Vault of Labyrinths... Vault.... of Labyrinths. HOW DO YOU HAVE A VAULT OF LABYRINTHS!? HOW!? ARGGGHHH!

Tzeentch has created 12 divergent dimensions all at once crisscrossing in ways that don't make, just as his basic home. How is that a thing to be even a problem by any measure?

ZebioLizard2 wrote:

Vault of Labyrinths... Vault.... of Labyrinths. HOW DO YOU HAVE A VAULT OF LABYRINTHS!? HOW!? ARGGGHHH!

Tzeentch has created 12 divergent dimensions all at once crisscrossing in ways that don't make, just as his basic home. How is that a thing to be even a problem by any measure?

I don't so much have an issue with WHAT it is, so much as it is just a terrible name for something and offends my senses.

Tzeentch and I have an understanding. He helps me program in Excel VBA, and I proliferate his message of inevitable change to the masses. Seriously lost count of how many times the saying;
"Change is inevitable, all you can do is ensure it happens in your favor"
has come up in my years. I use it to preface business cases that I need to bring forward to drive correct process change a lot. And no one can argue against it effectively.

Tzeentch is my homeboy.

Atma01 wrote:Vault of Labyrinths... Vault.... of Labyrinths. HOW DO YOU HAVE A VAULT OF LABYRINTHS!? HOW!? ARGGGHHH!

Just double checking, you know they are artifacts called labyrinths, and not the traditional mazes, right?

To put it simply though, I'd rather have Matt Ward writing for Dark Angels.

No more Jarvis, and certainly not cruddance. At the least they might be unique enough that they won't be replaced by the Vanilla codex again, for the third consecutive time..

ZebioLizard2 wrote:To put it simply though, I'd rather have Matt Ward writing for Dark Angels.

No more Jarvis, and certainly not cruddance. At the least they might be unique enough that they won't be replaced by the Vanilla codex again, for the third consecutive time..

Three things.

1 - It's Jervis.

2 - It's Cruddace. No 'N'.

3 - Is there anything thats actually unique about the Dark Angels? The only differences between them and Codex marines that I can think of are aesthetic. I mean, theres the deathwing and ravenwing army types, but do we really need a whole other codex just for that?

Luke_Prowler wrote:Besides, the question was why we hate Ward, and the SOB murder-thon is a valid reason

No it isn't. Because it is something found among all authors (since "there is only War" and all that). But only forwarded as a reason to "hate" one of them. Hence, double standards.

Space Wolves Codex 5th wrote:
A quorum of Ecclesiarchy officials approach Fenris, intending to inspect and asses the Space Woves after hearing rumours of the worship of pagan gods. Amazingly, the Space Wolves open fire upon the Ecclesiarchy as soon as they come in range of the Fang's gun. Almost a year later, the Ecclesiarchy and three orders of the Adepta Sororitas attempt to enter Fenrisian space in force. The resultant war lasts for three weeks before the Ecclesiarchy decides to let sleeping dogs lie and withdraws its forces.

Ward's descriptions are obviously far more visceral than the dry accountant-style prose of Kelly. But the act is the same. Ecclesiarchy and Adepta Sororitas get attacked for no good reason all over. It's 40K. It's "grimdark". There is only war. Adepta are not excepted.

Kaldor wrote:

ZebioLizard2 wrote:To put it simply though, I'd rather have Matt Ward writing for Dark Angels.

No more Jarvis, and certainly not cruddance. At the least they might be unique enough that they won't be replaced by the Vanilla codex again, for the third consecutive time..

Three things.

1 - It's Jervis.

2 - It's Cruddace. No 'N'.

3 - Is there anything thats actually unique about the Dark Angels? The only differences between them and Codex marines that I can think of are aesthetic. I mean, theres the deathwing and ravenwing army types, but do we really need a whole other codex just for that?

Huh, been misspelling those two for a while than. Thanks for that.

3: While it's never reflected in the gameplay is the fact that they have a large array of pre-heresy tech that they can still continue to produce unlike most of the Imperium, not to mention the varied technology that far outweighs even the most advanced tech within the imperium, with Azreals helmet for note, which can grant an invulnerable save bubble of 4++ to an entire squad while being held by someone else due to its force field technology all pent up in a HELMET. Alot of this could come down to new and vastly different technological weapons, and yes, cheaper and more common plasma. (But not plasma plasma plasma)

They've also gained strange new devices from the Watchers in the Dark sometimes going up to them and giving them the artifacts which have never been seen before, crafted by them for unique purposes, not to mention being unique little buggers which are almost like pariahs in that they can nullify the warp around them, and even will carry weapons into battle. Though they never fight directly.

Along with the special weapons crafted from the jet black meteor that crashed into the rock which is carved and given to masters as a showing of their induction to the circles (Azreal again with his S6 sword, Belial and Sammeal for some reason have less..effective ones for some unexplained reason)

They have special chaplains devoted entirely to torture and forcing repenting Fallen ones with the special Blades of Reason, not to mention the special rosaries carried by those who have converted a number of them. Not sure what to do with them, but hey their nice.

Their Tech marines and servitors are far greater in number, due in part to how many numbers of those who fail to become dark angels, or fail to rise up in the ranks becoming forced into becoming servitors. Not to mention they have entire groups of "Iron Wing" battalions.

They also are one of the most shooty of the armies, originally in the fluff being the only one with double twin linked weapons. (And still now the only one with TL missile launchers and TL Lascannon's) I'd love to see them finally get the proper Mortis dreadnought included into their list

And they also used to have a thing for special standards, not sure what to do with those so much but they had them at one point that granted bonus to squads within 12", even having one that granted an overwatch like effect at one point.

Kaldor wrote:

Atma01 wrote:Vault of Labyrinths... Vault.... of Labyrinths. HOW DO YOU HAVE A VAULT OF LABYRINTHS!? HOW!? ARGGGHHH!

Just double checking, you know they are artifacts called labyrinths, and not the traditional mazes, right?

Yes. But that name. It just makes me see red. But as bad as they rustles my jimmies, the fluff for Draigo makes me black out with rage. And wake up later covered in blood. And it isn't the good kind of blood like Sororitas blood.

It also annoys me greatly that some of his changes to their army structure like giving them battlefield Apothecaries again aren't even original. I'm surprised we didn't find some copy paste errors straight out of their Realms of Chaos entry.

Basically I just miss the days of the 2nd Ed Dark Millennium fluff when they were really special, and the days of the 3rd Ed fluff which was more or less a logical and fleshed out extension of the 2nd Ed fluff. Before they became just super special Vanilla Marine Army List that is good at killing Daemons. And much of what is there is simply pissing on the memory of that old fluff. Like how much it cost them and the Space Wolves to banish Angron during the first war for Armageddon. Now its just call in Draigo and everyone can sit back and relax with a nice warm glass of Sororitas blood and watch a show.

I'm madder than Khorne about that whole Codex and that I should calm down, but it really does rustle my jimmies.

Psienesis wrote:Being at work, I don't have my Codex with me, and the mechanic is worded slightly differently, but it's essentially phase out.

Well, we're looking for the idea that if they are messed up their bodies are teleported out. If it is different than that, then it doesn't count.

Kaldor wrote:
3 - Is there anything thats actually unique about the Dark Angels?

The correct answer to this is "not any more".

Dark Angels used to have several key differences in their army lists. However, nearly all of those differences have been incorporated into the vanilla Space Marine list.

They could either make Dark Angels special characters for Codex Space Marine, or they really have to think of something new for them to warrant a new codex.

To which it should be added that most of the options which made the Dark Angels unique in 3rd edition (all-Terminator lists, all-bike lists, Dreadnoughts with two heavy weapons) had in any case been available to all codex chapters in 2nd.

I don't mind his rules as much as most people do. Codex creep has been a bit more apparent with some of his rules but that might be more of GW leading the way and him following orders.

I can't stand his fluff writing. If you do, that's fine, there's certainly a lot of it lately for you to enjoy, but it's just a bit too Marry Sue for me.

Khornesnake wrote:it's just a bit too Marry Sue for me.

I don't think anyone will be marrying Sue today.

So Ward writes "Mary Sue" characters?

Wiki wrote:
A Mary Sue (sometimes just Sue), in literary criticism and particularly in fanfiction, is a fictional character with overly idealized and hackneyed mannerisms, lacking noteworthy flaws, and primarily functioning as a wish-fulfilment fantasy for the author or reader. It is generally accepted as a character whose positive aspects overwhelm their other traits until they become one-dimensional.

Let's have a look at Dark Eldar, shall we?

Phil Kelly wrote:
Asdrubael Vect is quite simply the most devious and intelligent Dark Eldar ever to have existed. His milk-white skin bears not a single scar, though his void-black eyes convey so much hatred that his soul must be calloused indeed. Such is his mind's complexity that it could be likened to a fractal's edge or the crystal labyrinth of Tzeentch. His psyche is a near-infinite palace of plans, counter-measures and ploys that take centuries to come to fruition, but to one who has lived for many millenia, the passage of a hundred years is little more than the passing of a season. There is no intrique Vect has not thwarted a dozen times over, no treachery he has not forseen and turned upon itself.

/puke

Vect = Space malekith.

Nom

I honestly think this thread should get locked now...

What I am getting is he has written some rules that some feel are OP, while other feel are ok. I am also getting he is disliked for changing stuff(Some of which could have used the change) and just disliked as some people just want someone to dislike.

All in all what I am taking from this thread is Matt ward hate is overblown and just a bandwagon to jump on as he seems no worse in what he has done then most of the other current GW writers.

That hate for ward started with 7th ed deamons and will continue on throughout his career.

Nom

nomsheep wrote:That hate for ward started with 7th ed deamons and will continue on throughout his career.

Nom

What I have taken form that is, people are gonna hate everything he makes because of one book, even if that one book has no bearing on his later books.I honestly have yet to see anything brought up in the 40k line that seems worse then what others have done. If your really dislike it blame GW as they gave the go ahead.

nomsheep wrote:Vect = Space malekith.

Nom

Vect= "mary-sue" wish-fullfilling for pudgy emo-goths.

Yeah basically. One awful, awful book has tainted his career and everything he does from then on will be scoured with a microscope cos of the mess he made of deamons.

Nom

/shrug

7th Edition WFB Daemons were a mild oddity compared to the problems caused by 40K's 3.5. Chaos Dex or 4th Edition Cheese Falcons or, infact, 5th Edition IG combined with the old Daemonhunter Dex.

Neither of which were written by ward.

It's also credited as breaking the entire of 7th ed fantasy.

Nom

This has been interesting for me as I am new. But really I am not seeing anything that honestly justify the level of hate I have seen yet. He made one poor book, I myself while still reading it am liking the Necron book quite a bit really.

nomsheep wrote:Neither of which were written by ward.

It's also credited as breaking the entire of 7th ed fantasy.

Nom

As is Chaos 3.5 for 40K 3rd and Cheese Falcons for 4th.

He made two immensely overpowered books.

had a hand the worst edition of 40k yet.

Invalidated every SM army that wasn't um by saying that all others are 'wrong'

SLaughtered sisters in 70% of his fluff.

Retconned the crons (thats good or bad depending on who you are)

but its not what he does its the zeal he seems to show in interviews explaining why x army should be god.

nom

nomsheep wrote:had a hand the worst edition of 40k yet.

Are you talking about 5th? Because 5th is about the best we've had in 5 editions.

pretre wrote:

nomsheep wrote:had a hand the worst edition of 40k yet.

Are you talking about 5th? Because 5th is about the best we've had in 5 editions.

Yes, I preferred 4th and Rogue trader.(before my time though.)

Nom