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Some friends said at the start it sounded like he was trying to do a Sean Connery impression. Though there is room to start a new one if they wished. Not that things should be dragged on of course.
I liked it though, the ending was pretty decent.
Spoiler:
Even though the twist was pretty expected. It could have even worked quite well without it. Simply leaving Bruce dead. But, that's probably the grimdark.
Vaerros wrote:Overall enjoyable, but one thing almost killed it for me:
Spoiler:
The sudden emergence of Thalia as the main villain felt embarrassingly clumsy. They spent the entire movie building up Bane as the main villan(and doing a pretty good job of it, imo) only for her to be the real threat in the end? Come on.
Spoiler:
They addressed that The League of Shadows was responsible for what was going on, put a flashback of Ras in, and it made sense to have Thalia show up. They also pulled her out perfectly-a trusted source/lover knifing Bruce in the back-literally and figuratively. Also explains how Bane knew Bruce was Batman-she informed him, after her father informed her. I'm not quite sure what the problem is here. Nolan did right by her. Granted, Bane didn't have his comic book abilities, nor was he a solo act like in the comics, but they worked him in VERY well while still showing at the end that he wasn't the #1 villain. If you hated this setup, I'm sure you must have hated Batman Begins too-Ras Al Ghul wasn't the main antagonist through the movie, Scarecrow was: as his agent. Bane is the same for Thalia. It's the way Nolan chose to have the LoS operate in his incarnation of the Batman universe.
Except the difference here is:
Spoiler:
Up until the last 25 minutes(?) or so, Thalia's character was developed as a 'good' one. The switch to evil felt almost comical and cheesy to me(the moments where she tried to 'talk in a dark tone' felt...funny). It felt like a plot twist for the sake of a plot twist.
Up until the last 25 minutes(?) or so, Thalia's character was developed as a 'good' one. The switch to evil felt almost comical and cheesy to me(the moments where she tried to 'talk in a dark tone' felt...funny). It felt like a plot twist for the sake of a plot twist.
It is foreshadowed throughout the movie, so it isn't a 'comical and cheesy', nor is it a sudden shift with no explanation. One thing I hadn't considered that a friend pointed out, someone not familiar with the comics, was that they were suspicious of Miranda from the start because everything was to easy with her. In all of Bruce's other relationships (Catwoman, Racheal) there were obstacles and issues, whereas Miranda seemed to go out of her way to be there for Bruce and insinuate herself into his life.
Amidst the mists and coldest frosts he thrusts his fists against the posts and still insists he sees the ghosts.
By and large very enjoyable, although the 2nd half was a lot better than the first where Nolan expected you to make a lot of mental jumps in plot terms.
For example...
Spoiler:
Catwoman's failed handover to Bane's henchmen randomly turned into Gordon being trapped in Bane's lair in the space of five minutes.
Anne Hathaway was outstanding as Selina Kyle/Catwoman
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/07/22 19:17:31
Up until the last 25 minutes(?) or so, Thalia's character was developed as a 'good' one. The switch to evil felt almost comical and cheesy to me(the moments where she tried to 'talk in a dark tone' felt...funny). It felt like a plot twist for the sake of a plot twist.
It is foreshadowed throughout the movie, so it isn't a 'comical and cheesy', nor is it a sudden shift with no explanation. One thing I hadn't considered that a friend pointed out, someone not familiar with the comics, was that they were suspicious of Miranda from the start because everything was to easy with her. In all of Bruce's other relationships (Catwoman, Racheal) there were obstacles and issues, whereas Miranda seemed to go out of her way to be there for Bruce and insinuate herself into his life.
There were subtle hints, but it still doesn't change the fact that
Spoiler:
As a villan, she was under-developed and not as effective, I would say, as Bane. The acting performance and story-telling aspects of that particular part of the movie were comparably weak.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2012/07/22 19:18:43
What's missing for me (IE what makes it hard to suspend disbelief) is how does the league of shadows/bane recruit so many damn loyal people. The opening scene displays how loyal banes followers are, but not necessarily why. They refer to them often as mercenaries but that's problematic because mercenaries aren't exactly willing to lay down theier lives for a cause, they just want money. Look at the scene at the cement plant they were using to make explosives, you've got these two blue collar guys who are apparently just.. evil? I just don't get how "hey lets destroy a city because it's a symbol of corruption and decadence" is a great rallying call to bring the disenfranchised over to your cause and be willing to die for it. Especially seeing as the whole blame the rich thing was a smoke screen designed to keep gotham busy as the bomb built up in strength. Dark knight had a bit of the same problem when it came to joker's henchmen. They have a line about him attracting similar minds to him IE crazy people but that doesn't really speak to long time loyalty, planning or you know, the word getting out that he randomly kills anyone including his followers.
Back to the rises, assuming all the henchmen were adaquetely sated by propaganda/sense of belonging/money, what was the plan after the bomb went off? Ras al ghul wanted to make an example of gotham to "restore balance" just like when they sacked rome. The problem though is if there's no way "post-bomb" to take responsiblity and sorta put the league's intent/manifesto out.. what would be the point? The rest of the world would just look on in shock and think hater's gonna hate as opposed to "ohhhh that's why they did it, we gotta shape up and be less corrupt".
Other than that, I really enjoyed it.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/07/22 19:25:15
Vaerros wrote:
There were subtle hints, but it still doesn't change the fact that
Spoiler:
As a villan, she was under-developed and not as effective, I would say, as Bane. The acting performance and story-telling aspects of that particular part of the movie were comparably weak.
That isn't a fact, it is an opinion, and not one I find to have a lot of substance.
Amidst the mists and coldest frosts he thrusts his fists against the posts and still insists he sees the ghosts.
Vaerros wrote:
There were subtle hints, but it still doesn't change the fact that
Spoiler:
As a villan, she was under-developed and not as effective, I would say, as Bane. The acting performance and story-telling aspects of that particular part of the movie were comparably weak.
That isn't a fact, it is an opinion, and not one I find to have a lot of substance.
I have to agree with Ahtman - just because it was 'hidden' and/or subtle doesn't mean it was... bad?
I thought the same about the The Dark Knight, how does Joker get so many loyal followers when he BURNS all the money they make, and kills half of his own guys?!
feth following him! I think id rather go rob liquor stores than work with that mad fether!
We are arming Syrian rebels who support ISIS, who is fighting Iran, who is fighting Iraq who we also support against ISIS, while fighting Kurds who we support while they are fighting Syrian rebels.
Crablezworth wrote:They refer to them often as mercenaries
When they are referred to as mercs it is either from people who don't know what the LoS is, or Batman under the assumption that the LoS dispersed after he defeated Ra's. It actually is explicitly stated at one point if I recall. Alfred shows Batman footage of Bane attacking security gaurds and says "I see obsession, I see training, I see the the League of Shadows" and Wayne responds the the LoS is gone. Of course we know it is the LoS and later when Batman confronts Bane he finds out that it is the LoS and Bane claims leadership. These men aren't just mercs, and like the members of the LoS in Batman Begins, they are most certainly zealots for the cause.
Crablezworth wrote:Look at the scene at the cement plant they were using to make explosives, you've got these two blue collar guys who are apparently just.. evil? I just don't get how "hey lets destroy a city because it's a symbol of corruption and decadence" is a great rallying call to bring the disenfranchised over to your cause and be willing to die for it.
I imagine the people working on secret stuff and not mundane construction thought it was part of some money making scheme like Scarecrow in the first film or just wanted to get paid.
Crablezworth wrote:Dark knight had a bit of the same problem when it came to joker's henchmen. They have a line about him attracting similar minds to him IE crazy people but that doesn't really speak to long time loyalty, planning or you know, the word getting out that he randomly kills anyone including his followers.
That is a problem in the comic book as well.
Crablezworth wrote:Ras al ghul wanted to make an example of gotham to "restore balance" just like when they sacked rome. The problem though is if there's no way "post-bomb" to take responsibility and sorta put the league's intent/manifesto out.. what would be the point?
It wasn't about restoring balance anymore, it was about revenge and punishment. Batman had essentially wiped out their order, leaving only a handful of men and a bitter daughter. I imagine at some point they may have been planning on escaping the city, but they were fanatics devoted to the cause and would easily die to succeed, so when they had to stay in the city to see it go off properly they didn't give it a second thought. The world wouldn't have known why the bomb went off, but Wayne in his cell would, and would have to live his days in that prison knowing that every person on the island died because of him.
Amidst the mists and coldest frosts he thrusts his fists against the posts and still insists he sees the ghosts.
Vaerros wrote:
There were subtle hints, but it still doesn't change the fact that
Spoiler:
As a villan, she was under-developed and not as effective, I would say, as Bane. The acting performance and story-telling aspects of that particular part of the movie were comparably weak.
That isn't a fact, it is an opinion, and not one I find to have a lot of substance.
I would dare say the same about your opinions. We'll have to agree to disagree.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/07/22 20:30:03
mattyrm wrote:I thought the same about the The Dark Knight, how does Joker get so many loyal followers when he BURNS all the money they make, and kills half of his own guys?!
His followers wouldn't be motivated by money, and they would probably be half crazy as well. Every criminal thinks they are the one guy that won't get caught, so I imagine many of the henchmen think they are the one doing everything right and won't be killed. Of course in the Dark Knight he really only has two gangs: the bank robbery group and his little band of misfits after that. All the bank robbers are killed so no one would know for certain he set them all up as no one could talk. The second group of soldiers we never see him attack. This isn't the comics where there is a long history of him doing this kind of thing.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Vaerros wrote:I would dare say the same about your opinions.
Yes, but I am right, so that doesn't really bother me all that much.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/07/22 20:34:15
Amidst the mists and coldest frosts he thrusts his fists against the posts and still insists he sees the ghosts.
Did you even look at the search you posted? All the results except 1 on the first page are from months before the movie was released and based on trailers.
I could understand Bane's voice most of the time, but it did get a little unintelligible at times. The theater's sound system wasn't the greatest, though.
Did you even look at the search you posted? All the results except 1 on the first page are from months before the movie was released and based on trailers.
They changed Bane's voice for the film.
Not really. I thought they were all new and relevant. I did not realize the problem with bane's voice was worse months ago. Yesterday the problem was new to me.
But maybe the problem I had was similar to Vaerros'. My theater is supposed to have a really good sound system though.
Still Bane's voice is the only one that I have yet to be able to understand 100% of the time.
Did you even look at the search you posted? All the results except 1 on the first page are from months before the movie was released and based on trailers.
They changed Bane's voice for the film.
Not really. I thought they were all new and relevant. I did not realize the problem with bane's voice was worse months ago. Yesterday the problem was new to me.
But maybe the problem I had was similar to Vaerros'. My theater is supposed to have a really good sound system though.
Still Bane's voice is the only one that I have yet to be able to understand 100% of the time.
There was also the issue of it sounding too loud at times. For example, when his character was introduced in the opening scene, it sounded like he was the movie's 'announcer' or something.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/07/23 00:06:56
Ouze wrote:Saw it this morning at the IMAX. Not sure I have anything to add that previous posters didn't already say; so I'll just consider these "votes" instead.
Spoiler:
NAY on Batman's deux ex machina at the end. I like Batman and all but it would have been a more powerful movie had he died.
NAY on him turning out to be Robin, that was stupid and lame and dumb.
YAY on Anne Hathaway's appearance and performance. She looked great and really delivered the role.
I agree with 1, but why is 2 such a big deal?
It's not so much a "big deal" - it's not like it ruined it for me, so much as it felt awkwardly shoehorned in with how it was presented, and it's a really dumb character to boot. It simply cost them cool points when all they had to do was drop that one line to retain them.
lord_blackfang wrote: Respect to the guy who subscribed just to post a massive ASCII dong in the chat and immediately get banned.
Flinty wrote: The benefit of slate is that its.actually a.rock with rock like properties. The downside is that it's a rock
I liked a lot about the movie but I didn't like the movie itself. Sloppy, long-winded narrative with no real justification plus overwhelming everything action plus frenetic editing ... ugh, I just walked out of the theater feeling beaten up. The villains' plans are either nonsensical or absurd -- I mean, either what they're doing just doesn't make any sense or it's just such a narrow, vindictive matter that I'm left wondering why I should care about these small-minded antagonists. Nolan's Bat-films are widely thought to be topical but this film lacked any kind of moral compass. It's treatment of real-world themes lacked reflection and responsibility. My review can be summed up as : this was the film we deserved but not the one we needed.
That said, the individual performances were good even if there was little chemistry between the characters. Joseph Gordon Levitt did amazing things with some pretty hammy poor orphan boy lines. And when Batman first appeared, I was suitably impressed. The lighting of the "bat signal" was very moving and some of the dialog verged on excellent (e.g., Gordon: "The solution has to come from inside the city!"). The overwhelming action I mentioned before is a double-edged sword -- it's exhausting all piled together but in the moments themselves (the Bat-bike chase from above, the second confrontation between Batman and Bane) they were appropriately epic.
Automatically Appended Next Post: It was nice to be vindicated:
I enjoyed it. Not as much as Dark Knight, but still not bad
Spoiler:
I feel the Well/City falling into anarchy section could have been cut in half.
I didn't like Talia. At all. I feel like it would have been Better if Bane had just been the bad guy for the whole film.
I did like Batman and Bane going all Challenge mode and picking each other out of the crowd of guys and brawling in the middle of said crowd. I liked that a lot.
Back to point one, I did like the Scenes with Scarecrow.
I like how they brought Robin in.
I really liked how Hathaway played Catwoman.
The "bane taking over Gotham with bomb" scene was just amazing, but still see point 1.
I liked Bruce living at the end more than I thought I would. At first I was against it, but after watching the Movie.....I preferred it over him just dying
I wish we got some more closure on Bane. Is he dead? was he jailed? Did he stand up after being shot, decide crime wasn't for him and start a barbershop Quartet? They Showed us Ra's al Ghul's Death, and the Joker escaping was just...Well it was just so the Joker. I would have been disappointed if he was just locked up. But with Bane, he just gets shot and never seen again. Most likely dead, but after being the Main Villain almost the WHOLE movie, you'd think they'd give us some closure.
I didn't like Bane's voice, but mostly because I wanted the voice to be from the guy that voiced Ulysses in Fallout New Vegas. That would have been epic.
That's pretty much all of my thoughts about the Movie. It was ok, but not great
Well, just saw it, and as expected, it was not as heart-pounding and electric as TDK. Heath Ledger made that movie impossible to follow.
Spoiler:
I really liked bane. Forget the name of the actor, but I feel like that was one of the strongest performances in the film. And I loved Bane's look, too. Much better than the luche libre sort of look from the comics.
Spoiler:
Bruce not dying felt kind of contrived to me. Other than that though, I felt it was pretty solid. Not the masterpiece that TDK was, though.
Iur_tae_mont wrote:I wish we got some more closure on Bane. Is he dead? was he jailed? Did he stand up after being shot and the Joker escaping was just...
Considering that the same cannon just tore apart a barracade, and people in Nolan's univesre aren't meta-human, I'll let you decide for yourself whether he lived or died after a 40mm grenade tore a hole in his chest. Remember, Nolan doesn't do the normal comic convention of never-ending, never-aging, death defying comebacks. We are so inundated with typical comic book tropes that when someone is shot in the chest at point blank range and knocked back 40 feet we assume they are alive.
Iur_tae_mont wrote:and the Joker escaping was just
What? If you are referring to when he escaped from the MC Division fine, but since the other two are examples of what happened at the end of the movie as opposed to the middle, I am a bit thrown off.
Amidst the mists and coldest frosts he thrusts his fists against the posts and still insists he sees the ghosts.
Iur_tae_mont wrote:I wish we got some more closure on Bane. Is he dead? was he jailed? Did he stand up after being shot and the Joker escaping was just...
Considering that the same cannon just tore apart a barracade, and people in Nolan's univesre aren't meta-human, I'll let you decide for yourself whether he lived or died after a 40mm grenade tore a hole in his chest. Remember, Nolan doesn't do the normal comic convention of never-ending, never-aging, death defying comebacks. We are so inundated with typical comic book tropes that when someone is shot in the chest at point blank range and knocked back 40 feet we assume they are alive.
Iur_tae_mont wrote:and the Joker escaping was just
What? If you are referring to when he escaped from the MC Division fine, but since the other two are examples of what happened at the end of the movie as opposed to the middle, I am a bit thrown off.
I will admit it has been a while since I saw Dark Knight. Meant to watch to today before I left for the Dark Knight Rises. Didn't the Joker escape from the chains before the cops got to him?
Great. I was about to go to bed an Youtube doesn't have the scene. Now I gotta watch The Dark Knight so I'll remember how it ended. Damn you Ahtman.
Iur_tae_mont wrote:Didn't the Joker escape from the chains before the cops got to him?
Nope, the cops arrest him. I know originally they wanted to have The Joker have part in the final film, but with Heath's passing they didn't want to even broach the subject in the film at all. As far as in universe story lines I imagine the Joker is still locked up in Arkham*, or was executed.
*It seems likely since after the whole event Batman disappeared, and without his foil he doesn't do much.
Amidst the mists and coldest frosts he thrusts his fists against the posts and still insists he sees the ghosts.
....Back to the rises, assuming all the henchmen were adaquetely sated by propaganda/sense of belonging/money, what was the plan after the bomb went off? Ras al ghul wanted to make an example of gotham to "restore balance" just like when they sacked rome. The problem though is if there's no way "post-bomb" to take responsiblity and sorta put the league's intent/manifesto out.. what would be the point? The rest of the world would just look on in shock and think hater's gonna hate as opposed to "ohhhh that's why they did it, we gotta shape up and be less corrupt".
Other than that, I really enjoyed it.
The League of Shadows never takes credit for any of their work.
Manchu wrote:I liked a lot about the movie but I didn't like the movie itself. Sloppy, long-winded narrative with no real justification plus overwhelming everything action plus frenetic editing ... ugh, I just walked out of the theater feeling beaten up. The villains' plans are either nonsensical or absurd -- I mean, either what they're doing just doesn't make any sense or it's just such a narrow, vindictive matter that I'm left wondering why I should care about these small-minded antagonists. Nolan's Bat-films are widely thought to be topical but this film lacked any kind of moral compass. It's treatment of real-world themes lacked reflection and responsibility. My review can be summed up as : this was the film we deserved but not the one we needed.
That said, the individual performances were good even if there was little chemistry between the characters. Joseph Gordon Levitt did amazing things with some pretty hammy poor orphan boy lines. And when Batman first appeared, I was suitably impressed. The lighting of the "bat signal" was very moving and some of the dialog verged on excellent (e.g., Gordon: "The solution has to come from inside the city!"). The overwhelming action I mentioned before is a double-edged sword -- it's exhausting all piled together but in the moments themselves (the Bat-bike chase from above, the second confrontation between Batman and Bane) they were appropriately epic.
Automatically Appended Next Post: It was nice to be vindicated:
What was the security like? I will not be searched to go to a freaking movie and ain't going anywhere until I confirm the theaters haven't gone off the deep end. What was the security situation?
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
Which, admittedly, was during a "married man with kids who got a chance to go out and see the movie by himself" time of Saturday at 2:45PM - not a time when too much trouble would happen, I'd imagine...
Alpharius wrote:No extra security measures at all when I saw it.
Which, admittedly, was during a "married man with kids who got a chance to go out and see the movie by himself" time of Saturday at 2:45PM - not a time when too much trouble would happen, I'd imagine...
Wow sounds like fun. I remember those days. GC and The Boy chasing each other around the thater until other people showed up. Fun fun.
-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
Alpharius wrote:Any predictions on how they move forward with Batman now?
I'll have to see Man of Steel before I can even have an inkling. MoS is the key to the future of DC movies. If it does big business, Batman will be rebooted to fit into Snyder's world. Right now, Nolan has established "the look" for DC movies (with trickle down to the comics -- even Supes is wearing body armor these days) and MoS looks to be ... no pun intended ... following suit. But if MoS fails, Batman will be rebooted with the idea of making a new line of DC movies. That might even convince Warner Bros. to create a "DC Studios" set-up, like what Disney has so successfully done with Marvel. If MoS fails, I think we'll see a Batman that looks more to Adam West than to Christian Bale. The best take on Batman in non-comics media since Batman The Animated Series was Batman The Brave & The Bold, after all.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/07/23 14:59:19
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