Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Laughing Man wrote:

Byte wrote:How many of these minis that everybody so proud of are made by child labor in China? Just saying...

Given what I've seen of Mantic, I'm pretty sure they own their own injection molds in Britain. Privateer prints most of their models in Seattle, and Corvus Belli is a Spanish company. Want to try that again?

It was a general statement. Where is Infinity modeled? Warpath? Do I need to go on?

They're probably modeled in their home countries.

Where are they manufactured? I don't own any Mantic or Corvus Belli miniatures, so I can't say.

You do need to go on. You're making the accusations, so how 'bout some evidence? I'm actually going to the game shop tonight, I'll be sure to check the various miniatures they have to see where they're made.

I'm talking about all the current cool club minis in general and the apparent cheap availability. Everything in a Wal-mart is made in China to keep costs down. American made products cost off the charts compared to child labor. I'm sure the same true with other economies.

Cheap isn't always better, it's cheap in most cases. There are exceptions.

Listen guys. Ever heard of Kyromek or Warzone? I was deeply into both of these games and others when they were released. They folded. I don't put a lot of faith in the fly by nights. One man opinion.

I'm not so sure Mantic, Corvus Belli, etc. are "fly by night"s, but whatever you say.

RatBot wrote:They're probably modeled in their home countries.

Where are they manufactured? I don't own any Mantic or Corvus Belli miniatures, so I can't say.

You do need to go on. You're making the accusations, so how 'bout some evidence? I'm actually going to the game shop tonight, I'll be sure to check the various miniatures they have to see where they're made.

Accusations? Really? Read my post. It's clearly a question not a statement. Whats wrong with you man?

"Accusation" was perhaps too strong a word. Like I said, I will, seriously, check at the shop tonight. I don't know if they have any Mantic or Corvus Belli, but they do have GW, Reaper, Wyrd, and Spartan Games minis.

It makes me sad.... It makes me cry....

Shadowbrand wrote:It makes me sad.... It makes me cry....

Everything will turn out fine... except all the bad stuff.

*Sniff* Thanks man...

Byte wrote:I'm talking about all the current cool club minis in general and the apparent cheap availability. Everything in a Wal-mart is made in China to keep costs down. American made products cost off the charts compared to child labor. I'm sure the same true with other economies.

Cheap isn't always better, it's cheap in most cases. There are exceptions.

Listen guys. Ever heard of Kyromek or Warzone? I was deeply into both of these games and others when they were released. They folded. I don't put a lot of faith in the fly by nights. One man opinion.

Like you I sometimes fear the same, and yes the list of failed wargame companies is a long and a sad one. Most notably the likes of Rackham, who I know are still much missed. Good news that some of their models are apparently returning, but it won't be what it once was.

On the other hand I like to think some of the newcomers will learn from their mistakes. No doubt some will fall by the wayside, but a lot of the companies starting now try to offer something new. They have to, otherwise no-one would buy them!

Corvus Belli have produced what are generally regarded as some of the finest examples of miniature sculpting in the industry - yes new technology has helped somewhat, but I struggle to think of a company that has consistently produced such good quality sculpts in the 20 or so years I have been involved in this hobby. They have also made, what I think, is a massive step-forward in rule systems and game mechanics which has taken some of the best elements of wargames over the years.

Mantic have made some very astute business decisions regarding a void in the miniature wargaming industry - namely the vast numbers of people who play GW games, yet are being priced out by them. Perhaps their new KoW system will offer some 'tighter' rulesets, as is Alessio Cavatore's way, for players who want something more akin to a tactical experience.

Flames of War have helped to popularise historical games - again, very cleverly setting themselves up as the 'go to' for older teenagers who are reaching 'that age' of not being comfortable seen playing with what might be regarded as toys. I might not be speaking a popular opinion there (and I know undoubtedly there are many other demographics who have gone to the game) but I speak from experience having worked in an independent store and seeing who was buying those games.

There are many other games out there, many of them again offering something new. I will say that modern technology offers a real chance for these new companies to survive, chiefly through use of the internet. How the hell did they manage 12-15 years ago before online communication become commonplace? The answer is: They didn't. Online blogs, forums, advertising are all new weapons in these companies arsenals - arguably they are necessary for any company to be able to survive in the GW-dominated marketplace. But, the times, they are a changin'.

I will be very, very surprised if most of the companies listed above (and others) are not still around in 5-10 years. At least, for the sake of wargaming. I would say that right now, with so many companies all producing great new rules, miniatures and ideas, all trying to take a piece of the pie, it has never been a better time to have wargaming and miniature collecting as a hobby, and I know I wish I had more time to try them all!

Pacific wrote:

Byte wrote:I'm talking about all the current cool club minis in general and the apparent cheap availability. Everything in a Wal-mart is made in China to keep costs down. American made products cost off the charts compared to child labor. I'm sure the same true with other economies.

Cheap isn't always better, it's cheap in most cases. There are exceptions.

Listen guys. Ever heard of Kyromek or Warzone? I was deeply into both of these games and others when they were released. They folded. I don't put a lot of faith in the fly by nights. One man opinion.

Like you I sometimes fear the same, and yes the list of failed wargame companies is a long and a sad one. Most notably the likes of Rackham, who I know are still much missed. Good news that some of their models are apparently returning, but it won't be what it once was.

On the other hand I like to think some of the newcomers will learn from their mistakes. No doubt some will fall by the wayside, but a lot of the companies starting now try to offer something new. They have to, otherwise no-one would buy them!

Corvus Belli have produced what are generally regarded as some of the finest examples of miniature sculpting in the industry - yes new technology has helped somewhat, but I struggle to think of a company that has consistently produced such good quality sculpts in the 20 or so years I have been involved in this hobby. They have also made, what I think, is a massive step-forward in rule systems and game mechanics which has taken some of the best elements of wargames over the years.

Mantic have made some very astute business decisions regarding a void in the miniature wargaming industry - namely the vast numbers of people who play GW games, yet are being priced out by them. Perhaps their new KoW system will offer some 'tighter' rulesets, as is Alessio Cavatore's way, for players who want something more akin to a tactical experience.

Flames of War have helped to popularise historical games - again, very cleverly setting themselves up as the 'go to' for older teenagers who are reaching 'that age' of not being comfortable seen playing with what might be regarded as toys. I might not be speaking a popular opinion there (and I know undoubtedly there are many other demographics who have gone to the game) but I speak from experience having worked in an independent store and seeing who was buying those games.

There are many other games out there, many of them again offering something new. I will say that modern technology offers a real chance for these new companies to survive, chiefly through use of the internet. How the hell did they manage 12-15 years ago before online communication become commonplace? The answer is: They didn't. Online blogs, forums, advertising are all new weapons in these companies arsenals - arguably they are necessary for any company to be able to survive in the GW-dominated marketplace. But, the times, they are a changin'.

I will be very, very surprised if most of the companies listed above (and others) are not still around in 5-10 years. At least, for the sake of wargaming. I would say that right now, with so many companies all producing great new rules, miniatures and ideas, all trying to take a piece of the pie, it has never been a better time to have wargaming and miniature collecting as a hobby, and I know I wish I had more time to try them all!

Well said Sir, well said.

RatBot wrote:They're probably modeled in their home countries.

Where are they manufactured? I don't own any Mantic or Corvus Belli miniatures, so I can't say.

You do need to go on. You're making the accusations, so how 'bout some evidence? I'm actually going to the game shop tonight, I'll be sure to check the various miniatures they have to see where they're made.

I'm looking at the packages right now. Mantic models are printed off in the UK. Corvus Belli models are manufactured in Spain. Privateer models are forged in the US. Spartan makes theirs in the UK as well.

Seriously, Byte, at least TRY to do a little research before making yourself look silly.

Laughing Man wrote:

RatBot wrote:They're probably modeled in their home countries.

Where are they manufactured? I don't own any Mantic or Corvus Belli miniatures, so I can't say.

You do need to go on. You're making the accusations, so how 'bout some evidence? I'm actually going to the game shop tonight, I'll be sure to check the various miniatures they have to see where they're made.

I'm looking at the packages right now. Mantic models are printed off in the UK. Corvus Belli models are manufactured in Spain. Privateer models are forged in the US. Spartan makes theirs in the UK as well.

Seriously, Byte, at least TRY to do a little research before making yourself look silly.

It was just a question. Plain and simple. So questions are silly now? That's a productive approach. Move along.

Byte wrote:It was a general statement. Where is Infinity modeled? Warpath? Do I need to go on?

No you don't, because your Red Herring isn't all that important to the discussion at hand.

swordbrotherjim wrote:
How does people crying about the cost of GW products affect the way you think about the products? How do you handle these people when you encounter them?

It makes me regret getting into a hobby filled with entitled whiners. I cant understand people who hate the price but drop $100 a month on plastic models.

H.B.M.C. wrote:

Byte wrote:It was a general statement. Where is Infinity modeled? Warpath? Do I need to go on?

No you don't, because your Red Herring isn't all that important to the discussion at hand.

It was relevant to the post in this thread I was responding to. Did you even see it? After which I was attacked by a couple of members for asking a question. Classy.

Byte wrote:

Laughing Man wrote:

Byte wrote:How many of these minis that everybody so proud of are made by child labor in China? Just saying...

Given what I've seen of Mantic, I'm pretty sure they own their own injection molds in Britain. Privateer prints most of their models in Seattle, and Corvus Belli is a Spanish company. Want to try that again?

It was a general statement. Where is Infinity modeled? Warpath? Do I need to go on?

So I can get in on the general statement, you know how come China sell knock off GW model from GW own molds. Says alot there, need I go on...

Wow, I touched a hot button/touchy subject. Didn't mean to.

My question about where models where produced wasn't referring to any one company. It was a general question. Why is this so stimulating?

Other peoples opinion will change mine, or they won't....like how things usually work... my own opinion however, is they are making us pay way too much for miniatures....just like action figures cost way too much, so I guess it's normal for companies to ask for that much for toys...but complaining about people "crying" won't change that, so its a waste of breath. Nothing changes in the end. They won't stop, and most likely, you won't stop either.

Byte wrote:Wow, I touched a hot button/touchy subject. Didn't mean to.

My question about where models where produced wasn't referring to any one company. It was a general question. Why is this so stimulating?

Because absolutely nobody makes models in China (besides HeroClix, who really don't count) maybe?

As for it being a general question, I'll buy that. So, have you stopped beating your wife?

Noir wrote:

Byte wrote:

Laughing Man wrote:

Byte wrote:How many of these minis that everybody so proud of are made by child labor in China? Just saying...

Given what I've seen of Mantic, I'm pretty sure they own their own injection molds in Britain. Privateer prints most of their models in Seattle, and Corvus Belli is a Spanish company. Want to try that again?

It was a general statement. Where is Infinity modeled? Warpath? Do I need to go on?

So I can get in on the general statement, you know how come China sell knock off GW model from GW own molds. Says alot there, need I go on...

Yes you do, because that is bull gack. Chinese knock offs aren't from GW molds.

If these models were made in china I would not buy them, as they would not be as well made and thus not worth as much. They are made in the UK, however, and the quality is pretty high. GWs plastics are pretty good, though I have spotted an occasional defect and they were quick to send a replacement. If you've never dealt with Chinese produced parts on a professional level, you have no idea how terrible they are. It's true that we're paying a LOT of money for some little plastic soldiers, but at least they're well done, and you're sure of the quality when you buy them. Finecast is a different beast altogether, but I think a large part of it is the company trying to adjust to a new medium. In my experience, though, I wish the models were made in germany. Those guys can really make some high quality parts for anything you can throw at them.

Whenever someone complains that a certain unti is too expensive I go out and buy three of them.

...anyone in the market for a kidney? Gently used.

I think GW is way over priced for the poor quality controll on the fine cast, Also there hasnt been that much inflation in the world to raise priced of a storm ravin 20% +. I think that they will lose a following soon if they dont get their head out of there asses. I make great money but I cant continue to buy more modles and new armies if they keep raising prices. So Ill keep what I have and if I want to play a new style of army Ill buy a warmachine army.

I personally think everything I've bought from GW was overpriced outside of the codices and rulebooks. I am comfortable paying thirty dollars for my codex, and I suppose I am alright with paying around fifty to sixty for the rulebook. It's somewhat over what I'd like, but not alarmingly so. And I guess a bit over three dollars for a pot of paint isn't outrageous either, but then I'm not savvy on paint. GW's miniatures, on the other hand, tend to be far outside of what I am willing to pay for. Terrain pieces, units, measuring and modeling tools, really all of them feel oftentimes double what I'd be willing to pay for, sometimes more. Most of my army pieces are bought second hand, from eBay or the like, and for models we don't have we tend to substitute with just a base and approximate.

It's a shame, because I think GW would get more business if they marketed it more broadly at a more affordable level. I'd like to support their upcoming products, but I simply don't find it fiscally responsible for me.

ÆΞØИ wrote:

Noir wrote:

Byte wrote:

Laughing Man wrote:

Byte wrote:How many of these minis that everybody so proud of are made by child labor in China? Just saying...

Given what I've seen of Mantic, I'm pretty sure they own their own injection molds in Britain. Privateer prints most of their models in Seattle, and Corvus Belli is a Spanish company. Want to try that again?

It was a general statement. Where is Infinity modeled? Warpath? Do I need to go on?

So I can get in on the general statement, you know how come China sell knock off GW model from GW own molds. Says alot there, need I go on...

Yes you do, because that is bull gack. Chinese knock offs aren't from GW molds.

Ummm... that was the point anyone can say some leading lies. Way to miss it.

Gram wrote:I personally think everything I've bought from GW was overpriced outside of the codices and rulebooks. I am comfortable paying thirty dollars for my codex, and I suppose I am alright with paying around fifty to sixty for the rulebook. It's somewhat over what I'd like, but not alarmingly so. And I guess a bit over three dollars for a pot of paint isn't outrageous either, but then I'm not savvy on paint. GW's miniatures, on the other hand, tend to be far outside of what I am willing to pay for. Terrain pieces, units, measuring and modeling tools, really all of them feel oftentimes double what I'd be willing to pay for, sometimes more. Most of my army pieces are bought second hand, from eBay or the like, and for models we don't have we tend to substitute with just a base and approximate.

It's a shame, because I think GW would get more business if they marketed it more broadly at a more affordable level. I'd like to support their upcoming products, but I simply don't find it fiscally responsible for me.

Good comment as others have posted similar postings.

I also think that we should separate the game from the corporation. A great deal of people like 40K. They enjoy the rich background and the ability to paint/create/play. What they hate is the ideology of the corporation and who drives the corporation into making the marketing decisions that they do.

I have dealt and continue to deal with these types of type "A" business executives. This is of course in simple terms but in general, they are not nice people. If Games Workshop would have just thought improving public relations with their customer base we would not be having this topic or many others in the past and of the present.

ÆΞØИ wrote:

Noir wrote:

Byte wrote:

Laughing Man wrote:

Byte wrote:How many of these minis that everybody so proud of are made by child labor in China? Just saying...

Given what I've seen of Mantic, I'm pretty sure they own their own injection molds in Britain. Privateer prints most of their models in Seattle, and Corvus Belli is a Spanish company. Want to try that again?

It was a general statement. Where is Infinity modeled? Warpath? Do I need to go on?

So I can get in on the general statement, you know how come China sell knock off GW model from GW own molds. Says alot there, need I go on...

Yes you do, because that is bull gack. Chinese knock offs aren't from GW molds.

Actually a certain amount of them are. FW produced out of China for a (very) short while and thus a lot of the knockoff FW pieces are from copied molds.

C'mon, Byte, this statement:

How many of these minis that everybody so proud of are made by child labor in China? Just saying...

makes all of your follow up "questions" pretty loaded. It's not exactly a vast leap of logic to conclude that you're implying all those other companies use Chinese labor.

Incidentally, as Laughing Man said, they don't.

RatBot wrote:C'mon, Byte, this statement:

How many of these minis that everybody so proud of are made by child labor in China? Just saying...

makes all of your follow up "questions" pretty loaded. It's not exactly a vast leap of logic to conclude that you're implying all those other companies use Chinese labor.

Incidentally, as Laughing Man said, they don't.

Than my question is answered and all is right in the world. That's great news actually!