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 Dozer Blades wrote:
You don't disembark from a smoked flyer guys. It's like one second you are zooming along in your pimp ride and the next you're suddenly sailing along ready to eat a dirt sandwich... Well unless you're a Necron of course because you're not in the flyer ever and the intent is crystal clear.

Apart from the rules which state the models are embarked. Oh wait, guess you would be wrong to state that

RAI you are wrong as well, becuse some published GW material (BL) states they do take hits. Where is your "RAI" showing the opposite? Found any yet?

This is almost as pointless as the upcoming election. Here the RAW and RAI everything else that is pink. No one is going to agree about the Night Scythe and units taking or not taking the str 10 hit. The rule of the day is.....Wait til GW makes a FAQ for this rule

Well the RAW is crystal clear. The RAI, as usual, is muddy - but there is one l=published source saying they take the hits.

We;re down to arguments such as "theyre not inside!!!!!" now. Yawn

nosferatu1001 wrote:
Well the RAW is crystal clear. The RAI, as usual, is muddy - but there is one l=published source saying they take the hits.

We;re down to arguments such as "theyre not inside!!!!!" now. Yawn

RAW is not crystal clear they could or they couldn't it's not properly stated either way it just depends on whether or not you believe that they enter reserves before the hits take place or not. RAI is muddy with most necron players believing they don't due to the fluff, and most non-necron players saying they do because its OP for them not to.

This is the first I'm hearing of this "source" saying they take hits. Most places play with them not taking hits, what is this source/do you have a link to where you got this information?

Sorry, but it IS clear. Following the rules it is impossible for them to be in reserves before the hits take place. 100% impossible. Either their rule does not function at all, and they are placed around the wreck, or they take the hits then go into reserve. There is no middle ground.

The fluff can easily indicate they take hits, as well - look up "feedback".

Additionally you have arbitrarily decided the split is necron / non necron with no evidence

The Necron FAQ seems to think the guys are aboard...

Page 51 – Night Scythes.
Add the following special rule:
“Invasion Beams: A unit that begins its Movement phase
embarked upon a Night Scythe can disembark before or after
the vehicle has moved (including pivoting on the spot, etc) so
long as the vehicle has not moved more than 36". If the Night
Scythe moves more than 24" in the same turn, the disembarking
unit can only fire Snap Shots.”

But ofc, if you still insist they're not aboard I'll oblige you. I just don't know how the passengers are going to disembark if they're not there so the vehicle just became rather pointless.

Punisher wrote:
RAW is not crystal clear they could or they couldn't it's not properly stated either way it just depends on whether or not you believe that they enter reserves before the hits take place or not. RAI is muddy with most necron players believing they don't due to the fluff, and most non-necron players saying they do because its OP for them not to.

No, really - it's not that I think it's overpowered for them not to, it's just how the rules read. Assigning a negative motivation without proof isn't very friendly.

This is the first I'm hearing of this "source" saying they take hits. Most places play with them not taking hits, what is this source/do you have a link to where you got this information?

I believe he's referring to the Black Library book I referenced a couple of times (Fall of Damnos).
I don't have a page number to cite for you, but in one of the other threads on this it was said that the marines blew up a night scythe, and there was a description of the feedback blowing up the portal on the other end.

rigeld2 wrote:

This is the first I'm hearing of this "source" saying they take hits. Most places play with them not taking hits, what is this source/do you have a link to where you got this information?

I believe he's referring to the Black Library book I referenced a couple of times (Fall of Damnos).
I don't have a page number to cite for you, but in one of the other threads on this it was said that the marines blew up a night scythe, and there was a description of the feedback blowing up the portal on the other end.

Fall of Damnos was written before the new codex, the only thing it changed from what was normal at that point was the fact they had minds. All the units used in the book where in the last codex.

Incorrect, 100%. Or did you forget the unfleshed lord, that didnt even make it into the codex? (sadly)

nosferatu1001 wrote:
Incorrect, 100%. Or did you forget the unfleshed lord, that didnt even make it into the codex? (sadly)

Yes, yes I did forget him. Now to decide on how to torture myself for forgetting one of the best characters in the book.

RAW it is not 100% clear because if it was then there wouldn't be at least two multi-page threads arguing it and not to mention I have yet to play a game both casually or in tournaments where they have ruled that the Necron unit takes the S10 hits. In your mind it is 100% clear based on the assumptions that you make, but to a majority of the people I play with and have played against across the country their interpretation is the same as mine where they don't take the S10 hits.

Aycee

Yeah exactly - there are an adamant few here who insist their supposedly raw interpretation is correct while simply ignoring other pertinent facts.

Aycee71 wrote:
RAW it is not 100% clear because if it was then there wouldn't be at least two multi-page threads arguing it

This is false argument. Dakka is full of long threads about things where RAW is 100% absolutely clear.
Usually, because the other side doesn't want to believe RAW, sometimes because RAW gives them in-game disadvantage. Other times "because it doesn't make sense". And that side keeps repeating arguments that were debunked pages ago ad nauseum. And the other side keeps shooting them down.

For example, it was 100% clear that RAW Grounded FMC's didn't lose Hard to Hit and that they could be Grounded multiple times. Even GW agreed, which is why they released Errata and changed the rules. Still, there was long thread about it.

 Dozer Blades wrote:
Yeah exactly - there are an adamant few here who insist their supposedly raw interpretation is correct while simply ignoring other pertinent facts.

I have to admit, I found this line to be hilarious, considering the source

Anyway, it's been proven multiple times that RAW embarked Scythe passengers do take the S10 hits. I'm not sure about RAI, it's something that's impossible to say until GW releases FAQ that answers this question.

smUrfsrUs wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

This is the first I'm hearing of this "source" saying they take hits. Most places play with them not taking hits, what is this source/do you have a link to where you got this information?

I believe he's referring to the Black Library book I referenced a couple of times (Fall of Damnos).
I don't have a page number to cite for you, but in one of the other threads on this it was said that the marines blew up a night scythe, and there was a description of the feedback blowing up the portal on the other end.

Fall of Damnos was written before the new codex, the only thing it changed from what was normal at that point was the fact they had minds. All the units used in the book where in the last codex.

Sorry, you're right - it's Hammer and Anvil that mentions it.
My apologies for the mistake.

As a Necron player, I hate to admit it but it seems that we have to play it that the units inside DO take the hits until there is another FAQ which might clear up this issue.

It does balance the Flyer and give a huge drawback as your unit, if there any models left, are back in reserves.

 Dozer Blades wrote:
Yeah exactly - there are an adamant few here who insist their supposedly raw interpretation is correct while simply ignoring other pertinent facts.

Lol, impressive statement given the source.

No facts have been ignored. The actual rules on this ARE clear, and you have not a single RULES argument against it. You havent had one. Aycee is the same

I've gotten a lot of necron players to agree that they do take the hits, if I agree that they then get their resurrection protocols. I think it's mainly a good idea to discuss it with your opponent before the game.

The only problem is that most of your troops are going to die.....then what......take a leadership....what happen if you failed......or you get pinned.......the point are moot. that why many of my nercons players believes that you dont take the str 10 hit at all.

Odd that. Almost like they dont want a negative.

Its the same trickiness as gets hot! on embarked models in 5th - that was a messy situation then.

You just dont roll for panic, as they arent on the board to panic. Similarly they dont get RP, as you cannot place models back in coherency - because theyre not on the board.

All in all really simple, means they still get to use their special rule for dropping into Reserves, and actually follows the rules.

Funny to see those arguing that you can't ignore one rule, while ignoring the exact rule from the codex that addresses this issue themselves.

And it happens to be the same two or three people arguing ridiculous RAW interpretations of the rules, until GW tells them they are wrong, again.

This has gone circular again, and is starting to get a bit hostile and personal.

Locking.