Payday 2 - Hoxton's House Party - starting 7-10 ten days of free content and new safe house!

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**Grundz**

Trondheim wrote:
So I take it that this game is worth getting? How is it for new players? Brutal and no holding of hands?

stealthing is hard at first because you dont really know the mechanics of how the game works and there's no real tutorial, so PUGing stealth runs can be brutal.
Besides that there's little things like you dont know the % bonus on skills or that ziptying civilians make police waves easier.

besides that difficulty largely matters on your team, with my A-team we can do overkill runs without too much problem (havent tried big oil yet) at ~ level 50, but that team may/may not be much better than anyone you play with and isn't really a fair assessment, i've been gunned down plenty of times with pugs

**BrookM**

I only play with friends or people I know, I did a fair share of games with total strangers, but being shouted at in French and watching those idiots ruin a good extraction by jumping off a roof to fetch a dropped bag is just plain idiotic.

Anyway, new update coming soon, we may see an increase in XP earned depending on the difficulty, with Overkill netting you ten time the XP amount instead of eight times now.

**Seaward**

How badly were the shotties nerfed back in Update 11?

**motyak**

Ahh more XP coming. Its the one thing that I need, I mean I've got about 10 mil in spending cash so that isn't an issue, I just want more skill points.

**BrookM**

Seaward wrote:
How badly were the shotties nerfed back in Update 11?

Just a range modifier, so shotguns could no longer be used as sniper rifles.

**Trondheim**

I see, well I will give this game a spin then. I have a friend or two whom plays it, but I never played L4D sp I may be in for a bit aof a steep learning curve. But I dont mind that

**Lord Bingo**

Seaward wrote:
How badly were the shotties nerfed back in Update 11?

The primary shotguns are fine, the locomotives range however is stupidly short, really only useful in buildings now.

**BrookM**

It is an absurdly sawn off shotgun, so the decrease in effective range makes sense.

**Lord Bingo**

I think the problem is more that beyond 15 feet you might as well be shooting cotton candy.

**Grundz**

Lord Bingo wrote:
I think the problem is more that beyond 15 feet you might as well be shooting cotton candy.

The point is you can deliver it directly to a bulldozers head at point blank range which usually kills him

**BrookM**

Lord Bingo wrote:
I think the problem is more that beyond 15 feet you might as well be shooting cotton candy.

Shotgun damage decreases over range yes, because each of the dozen or so pellets fired in a single shot hit a target at full strength, so to balance things out pellets lose strength over distance, because a shortened shotgun is not a precision weapon that should drop guys on the other side of a runway. Take a Mosconi if you want long range shotgun kills, the Locomotive is a backup weapon.

**LordofHats**

The Mosconi is by far my favorite weapon. I will happily use it as a sniper rifle

**BrookM**

Well, it is a hunting shotgun after all.

**BrookM**

From their twitter:

Main stuff in (not out yet!) patch: stealth/armor&weapons completely redone. Weapon and skills have stats. Saiga dozer. Many fixes.

**LordofHats**

Dozers with Saigas. Dear lord *runs*

**purplefood**

Saigas are fun to use and not be shot with...

**BrookM**

I've heard that update #15 will have a new map, no word as to what it will be about.

**BrookM**

Update 13 is now live:

Update #13 - 20131003

Update size: 1,3 gb

Big thanks to everyone who helped us test this update!

The three biggest changes

A complete overhaul of the weapon system, introducing numeric values instead of bars
Major changes to the stealth system, balancing how much weapons, skills and armors affect your concealment
Rewritten skill descriptions, introducing numeric values in the spirit of Mekonlips' www.pd2skills.info

**BrookM**

And the whole thing:

Update #13 - 20131003

Update size: 1,3 gb

The three biggest changes
A complete overhaul of the weapon system, introducing numeric values instead of bars
Major changes to the stealth system, balancing how much weapons, skills and armors affect your concealment
Rewritten skill descriptions, introducing numeric values in the spirit of Mekonlips' www.pd2skills.info

System
XP buff for HARD, VERY HARD, OVERKILL to account for increased difficulty, making it more rewarding
Pro Job XP payout increased on OVERKILL difficulty, making it more rewarding
Failure XP payout reduced slighlty
Special enemies will now be marked when seeing them through security cameras
You can now mark special enemies when in bleedout
Fixed a bug where skills that reduces purchase cost did not reduce cost of buying Premium Contracts
Changed suppression to threat
Changed visibility to concealment
Changed recoil to stability

Masks
All masks are now shown in your mask stash - now you know how many masks there currently are and which ones you have
Fixed a mask exploit where the player could abuse the mask system to gain money

Stealth
Major changes to the stealth system, balancing how much weapons, skills and armors affect your concealment
Fixed a bug for suspicion meter not decaying when same enemy has more than one suspicion object in sight
Decreased most SMG weapons and Assault Rifles concealability
Increased Pistol concealability except for the Deagle Pistol and Bronco .44 Revolver
It will no longer be possible to sneak right in front of enemies
Added a Detection Risk ring in the inventory instead of the Concealment bar
Fixed various issues with Suspicion and Detection related skills
Adjusted armor concealment values to make the first four armors more forgiving and the last three more punishing
Adjusted the weapon concealment values to be less punishing
Security cameras have been improved and will now detect you faster - GENSEC have been hard at work
Tweaked the detection values based on QA and community feedback

Law enforcement
Increased Sniper difficulty on OVERKILL so that they now deal massive damage
Tasers can now team up together with Shields
Law enforcers can now carry the Bronco .44 Revolver - go on, make their day
Fixed a crash regarding Sniper on the OVERKILL difficulty
Bulldozers can now throw smoke grenades - Oh my god
Bulldozers can now use the IZHMA 12G Shotgun - Sweet baby Jesus
Added new VO when law enforcers are suppressed
Fixed a crash related to flashbangs
Fixed a crash when a player tries to convert a dead law enforcer
Added hearing loss sound for flashbang
Added new VO for police officers and S.W.A.T.'s
Decreased damage output of law enforcers carrying the CAR-4 Rifle
Decreased damage output of law enforcers carrying the AMR-16 Rifle
Reduced the distance that the Taser can tase you
Added SFX to the Taser when his taser malfunctions and increased the damage the taser takes

GUI
Three icons have been added for the drill monitor so players can now see which skills have been activated
Weapon modification icons have now been added to the inventory and the loadout menus
Increased volume of player armor regeneration sound

Gangsters
Gangsters have been balanced so that they are less deadly, yo

Armor
Armors have received a dodge value - the lighter you are, the higher chance you have of dodging bullets
Further balanced movement rates for all armors
Armor penalty now affects steelsight speed, crouching speed and in-air movement speed

Skills
Rewritten skill descriptions, introducing numeric values in the spirit of Mekonlips' www.pd2skills.info
Complete overhaul of skill descriptions to more accurately describe what the skills do
ECM Feedback radius has been extended to 25m
Improved the Fast Learner skill by increasing its effect
Balanced the Bulletproof skill by decreasing its effect
Improved the Cat Burglar skill by increasing its effect
Improved the Lockpicking Expert ACE skill by increasing its effect
Improved the Gunslinger skill by increasing its damage and reload time
Improved the Cable Guy skill by increasing the interaction speed
Balanced the Inspire ACE skill so that it works 75% of the time
Improved the Sentry Combat Upgrade skill by increasing the armor %
Balanced the Chameleon skill, decreasing its effect
Balanced Tier 4 of the Ghost tree
Balanced Tier 6 of the Enforcer tree

Drill
Add ability to upgrade drills with your skill upgrades - you can now upgrade other players drills
Fixed bugs with the drill and hacking device, sound getting stuck and unavailable upgrades for clients

Weapons
A complete overhaul of the weapon system, introducing numeric values instead of bars
Selecting equipped mod will display the base, mod and skill stats
CMP Submachinegun - Increased the damage, spread and recoil
AMR-16 Rifle - Decreased the damage and recoil
AK.762 Rifle - Decreased the damage
Krinkov Submachinegun - Decreased the rate of fire
AK5 Rifle - Lowered the recoil
Kobus 90 Submachinegun - Lowered the recoil
Deagle Pistol - Lowered the recoil, increased the damage
Mark 10 Submachinegun - Increased the damage and spread
Locomotive 12G Shotgun - Increased the full and fall-off damage
Crosskill Pistol - Decreased the damage, lowered the recoil
Mosconi 12G Shotgun - Modifications for the Mosconi 12G Shotgun now have higher concealment
The Ergo Grip modification of the Crosskill Pistol now has a stability statistic

Nightclub heist
Fixed a bug with a shelf with no collision in the kitchen

Watchdogs heist
Watchdogs Day 2 - Fixed a bug with the trucks collision

Four Stores heist
Fixed a bug where a camera wasn't spotting players properly

Diamond Store heist
Fixed the AI navigation graph so they move properly

Big Oil heist
Fixed a bug so that the players can't shoot through the round windows to the left and right of a door
Modified cost for Big Oil Pro

Jewelry Store heist
Fixed a bug where throwing jewelry bags on top of street lights will cause progression to be stopped
Fixed a bug where the player and bag collision wouldn't work properly with the dump truck (this is also fixed on the Ukranian job)

Rats heist
Rats Day 2 - Fixed an issue where one of the money bag isn't secured when it spawn in the van
Modified cost for Rats Pro

Framing Frame heist
Framing Frame Day 2 - Fixed a bug so that players now are able to pass through the train door before it closes
Framing Frame Day 2 - Fixed an issue with the phone when multiple players would answer it at the same time
Framing Frame Day 3 - Fixed a bug where bags weren't reachable

Almir
OVERKILL - a Starbreeze Studio.

**purplefood**

I'm slightly annoyed they haven't added a feature that allows me to make money from my collection...

**BrookM**

Keep fighting the good fight girl! I'm sure if you keep it up they'll allow for it to happen!

**purplefood**

All I need is that as a mask now...

**motyak**

I am really liking the more specific breakdown in terms of weapon effects, and how that includes both skill and mods in the same table.

**BrookM**

Indeed, it should make certain builds more feasible as well. Will be fun to give the new stealth system a go this weekend.

**Redeemer31**

Wish you were all playing it on XBox 360...

At any rate, finally managed to find a copy and started playing with a friend. I know for PC, the game has gone through a bunch of patches but they have still yet to patch the game for 360. Is there a 'good' way of farming cash or is it just a matter of playing it over and over again to build up cash?

My friend and I are finding that since we have barely any skills or better weapons, we're stuck pretty much playing Four Stores or Jewelry Store over and over again. I like the game but wish it was a little freer with cash so that we can buy skills and new weapons.

**BrookM**

Personally, as a 360 owner, I'm glad I got it on PC, as I don't have to pay a monthly / annual fee to play the game and I don't have to wait until Microsoft finally allows for an update to happen. Plus, IMHO, shooters play better on PC's.

Now, if you want a good payout, play a multiple day job, or try to do jobs where you know you can get a lot of loot, like Jewelry Store or Diamond Store on Overkill.

**Redeemer31**

Hah, I agree but my friend who I do most of my gaming with only has a 360. I guess I could pick up the game again on PC but the very thought of it just feels weird to me.

**BrookM**

Hehe, if you need any more incentive, most of the peeps who play it on Dakka Dakka play it on PC.

But like I said, if you want big bucks, play a multiple days job, the higher the difficulty, the higher your pay out really.

**motyak**

BrookM wrote:
Hehe, if you need any more incentive, most of the peeps who play it on Dakka Dakka play it on PC.

But like I said, if you want big bucks, play a multiple days job, the higher the difficulty, the higher your pay out really.

For big money I'd recommend framing frame overkill doing it silent (just jump off a ledge if you stuff up). For big XP fast I'd recommend Rats Pro-Job Overkill, just blow the lab on the first day, blast through the gangsters for the codes, if you don't get it then no big problem, third day everyone grab 1 bag and leg it for the chopper. For a bit of both I'd recommend Firestarter Overkill, but that takes longer and is harder.

**BrookM**

Yeah, Rats on Overkill is our go-to mission for some quick XP, though if you really want a good pay day, cook four bags of meth, keep them (or steal them back) and try to loot as many money bags from the bus as possible.

We usually just run through by blowing the lab, raiding the apartments with silenced weapons and pumping the bus so full of lead that we're usually done with that part in less than a minute.

Big Oil is another one that can be very, very rewarding, especially the first day if you have a saw, or time to spare while drilling. Usually there's at least one case of guns, four ATM's and a few ki's of coke you can toss in the boat before the gak really hits the fan. Also, if you nail the final day, massive payout for bringing the right machine along.