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I think that they are just future-proofing things with the new icons. While it's possible that they split the factions, it is also possible that they are doing it this way to allow for a "Force Awakens Format". Because the new ships are more expensive both before and after upgrades, I could see them making a format where you get 125 points to build a list (8 TIE/FO's), but are restricted to New Era ships (Resistance and First Order) only. It also means they can take more risks with the new hotness, and potentially keep old ships relevant with a "Legends" Format (Anything but Resistance/First Order).

Pretty sure the new factions are just to fit the story

 jokerkd wrote:
Pretty sure the new factions are just to fit the story

Bingo.

The reason why First Order TIE fighters have the First Order symbol and not an Imperial cog is because they're, you know, First Order. We know that the Resistance and the First Order are just continuations of the Rebellion and the Empire (or so we've been told). Trying to speculate a new format based on two ships is a little much and there is absolutely no reason to do it... this isn't Attack Wing.

People said the same thing about scum though, thinking they'd just be 'wild cards' that could be hired by either side when they were first hinted at.

I have a feeling if the new trilogy takes off and more ships are revealed, we'll see them treated as their own factions eventually. After all, they're "official" ships, as opposed to many of the legends ships we have right now

 ScootyPuffJunior wrote:

 jokerkd wrote:
Pretty sure the new factions are just to fit the story

Bingo.

The reason why First Order TIE fighters have the First Order symbol and not an Imperial cog is because they're, you know, First Order. We know that the Resistance and the First Order are just continuations of the Rebellion and the Empire (or so we've been told). Trying to speculate a new format based on two ships is a little much and there is absolutely no reason to do it... this isn't Attack Wing.

Except, as far as we can tell, it seems this is not the case, and the implication is that they are in actuality separate (but somewhat affiliated) organizations entirely.

The new books, etc. that have been released seem to imply that the Rebellion and the Empire agreed to a peace treaty, the Rebellion became the New Republic and has control over the majority of the Empires former territory, with the Empire basically continuing on only in The Outer Rim territories. The Resistance are those in the Outer Rim who continue to fight against the Imperial government, independent of the Rebellion-turned-New Republic.

The First Order, might in fact be the new Imperial government following an overthrow, but thus far, based on what we now know, it seems that they at least started out as a separate organization from the Imperial government, formed from hardline extremist/ultranationalist types from within the former empire, whether or not they are a military junta that toppled the former Imperial government in a coup, or are more of an Islamic State type faction of extremists trying to topple an already evil regime so they can implement a *MOAR EVIL* regime in its place during an ongoing three way civil war with Americ... I mean, New Republic backed Resistance forces remains to be seen.

chaos0xomega wrote:
Except, as far as we can tell, it seems this is not the case, and the implication is that they are in actuality separate (but somewhat affiliated) organizations entirely.

The new books, etc. that have been released seem to imply that the Rebellion and the Empire agreed to a peace treaty, the Rebellion became the New Republic and has control over the majority of the Empires former territory, with the Empire basically continuing on only in The Outer Rim territories. The Resistance are those in the Outer Rim who continue to fight against the Imperial government, independent of the Rebellion-turned-New Republic.

The First Order, might in fact be the new Imperial government following an overthrow, but thus far, based on what we now know, it seems that they at least started out as a separate organization from the Imperial government, formed from hardline extremist/ultranationalist types from within the former empire, whether or not they are a military junta that toppled the former Imperial government in a coup, or are more of an Islamic State type faction of extremists trying to topple an already evil regime so they can implement a *MOAR EVIL* regime in its place during an ongoing three way civil war with Americ... I mean, New Republic backed Resistance forces remains to be seen.

You kind of just gave the long-form detailed explanation of my general point.

The Resistance is fighting against the Imperial Remnant in the Outer Rim, like the Rebellion did against the Empire in the movies (making the Resistance to good guys). The First Order is a junta inspired by the Empire, and given what we've seen in the trailers, they have a pretty stout military presence and are the bad guys. For all intents and purposes, they're the new versions of the Alliance and Empire.

Since they occupy the good guy and bad guy roles in the movies and game, just like the Rebellion and Empire, there is no reason to split them. It works best now with three factions: good, bad, and the in between. Having two good factions and two bad factions is faction bloat and that's something X-Wing definitely doesn't need,

 ScootyPuffJunior wrote:

Since they occupy the good guy and bad guy roles in the movies and game, just like the Rebellion and Empire, there is no reason to split them. It works best now with three factions: good, bad, and the in between. Having two good factions and two bad factions is faction bloat and that's something X-Wing definitely doesn't need,

Agreed.

You kind of just gave the long-form detailed explanation of my general point.

No. You're arguing that they are the same faction/continuation of those factions at a future point, what I am telling you is that they are entirely separate organizations, that the First Order, Resistance, Rebellion (in the form of The New Republic), and the Empire (in the form of the Imperial Remnant) all exist concurrently at some point and time within the setting. The Rebellion does not become The Resistance, it becomes the New Republic. The Empire does not become the First Order, it gets taken over/deposed BY The First Order. The implication is that, at some point, the two 'bad' factions (Empire and First Order) are involved in some sort of armed conflict. While I dont see the New Republic necessarily fighting the Resistance (particularly since its been established that some of the Resistance leadership were formerly part of the Rebel Alliance/New Republic), I could imagine that there might be some bad blood between the two organizations if the viewpoint is that the Alliance/New Republic abandoned the Outer Rim and its people to the Empire.

As for faction bloat, in a game like this, there is no such thing, so long as FFG's manufacturing capacity is capable of maintaining a consistent rate of releases across all factions (which, admittedly, is a questionable proposition). If anything, at some point, I believe FFG will need to introduce further factions (if not an 'era' system ala Flames of War, or rotate ships out of use like Attack Wing or Magic! The Gathering) to maintain game balance at a 100 pt meta without creating rules/capabilities overlaps between ships.

P.S. There are already 2 'bad' factions. Scum & Villainy is, by definition, a 'bad guy' faction. Its in the name. (Meanwhile its debatable, as a matter of perspective, whether the Empire or the Terrorist Alliance is the 2nd bad faction). This is further evidenced by failure to include ships such as the HWK-290, and the two YT ships within the S&V, despite the associated characters affiliation with less than lawful elements of galactic society (Han, Lando, Kyle Katarn, and Dash Rendar were all smugglers, mercenaries, and underworld/black market types after all), and the use of those ships by others for smuggling and piracy.

chaos0xomega wrote:
No. You're arguing that they are the same faction/continuation of those factions at a future point, what I am telling you is that they are entirely separate organizations, that the First Order, Resistance, Rebellion (in the form of The New Republic), and the Empire (in the form of the Imperial Remnant) all exist concurrently at some point and time within the setting. The Rebellion does not become The Resistance, it becomes the New Republic. The Empire does not become the First Order, it gets taken over/deposed BY The First Order. The implication is that, at some point, the two 'bad' factions (Empire and First Order) are involved in some sort of armed conflict. While I dont see the New Republic necessarily fighting the Resistance (particularly since its been established that some of the Resistance leadership were formerly part of the Rebel Alliance/New Republic), I could imagine that there might be some bad blood between the two organizations if the viewpoint is that the Alliance/New Republic abandoned the Outer Rim and its people to the Empire.

Everything I've read has said that the First Order rose from the ashes of the fallen Empire, driven to carry on its legacy. Regardless, you're still arguing from a lot of speculation (with 'bad blood' between the New Republic and Resistance). The two new factions in the movie are analogous to the factions from the original movie.

As for faction bloat, in a game like this, there is no such thing, so long as FFG's manufacturing capacity is capable of maintaining a consistent rate of releases across all factions (which, admittedly, is a questionable proposition). If anything, at some point, I believe FFG will need to introduce further factions (if not an 'era' system ala Flames of War, or rotate ships out of use like Attack Wing or Magic! The Gathering) to maintain game balance at a 100 pt meta without creating rules/capabilities overlaps between ships.

I disagree for all the reasons I've already touched upon. I'd rather have no new releases than a half dozen factions that all overlap each other diluting the feel of the current three factions.

P.S. There are already 2 'bad' factions. Scum & Villainy is, by definition, a 'bad guy' faction. Its in the name. (Meanwhile its debatable, as a matter of perspective, whether the Empire or the Terrorist Alliance is the 2nd bad faction). This is further evidenced by failure to include ships such as the HWK-290, and the two YT ships within the S&V, despite the associated characters affiliation with less than lawful elements of galactic society (Han, Lando, Kyle Katarn, and Dash Rendar were all smugglers, mercenaries, and underworld/black market types after all), and the use of those ships by others for smuggling and piracy.

Scum & Villainy is a mix of neutral evil and chaotic neutral, the Empire is lawful evil, and the Alliance is lawful good, thus the three factions occupy the three main positions in the alignment scale (good, neutral, and evil).

except the characters and organizations are all antagonists of the settings protaganists, as well as on again off again allies of the primary antagonists. Plus "villainy", as in "villain", as in bad guy. If and when Dash and Lando make their appearance in S&V Ill reevaluate my stance, but until then theyre "bad guys", just like them rebel scum ;P

Allow me to provide a few counterpoints to consider- the E-wing was never a Rebel Alliance ship- it was designed and used exclusively by the New Republic- yet it has no new faction icon.

The K- Wing, likewise, was never a Rebellion starfighter- and no new icon was produced for the New Republic.

Furthermore, both new factions include a new type of upgrade- which hasn't happened since SandV's illicit tech and crazy astromechs.

Now I know what you're going to say- there's no way FFG would make half their fleet lineup unplayable- and I agree. That's why I expect the switch to come after a wave that includes 2 Most Wanted style upgrade packs- one for old craft the Resistance still flies and upgrades, and one for TIEs used by less well equipped First Order pilots.

Most Wanted upgraded and updated 4 ships for a faction- if FFG pulls the same trick, it could kickstart 2 new factions very easily.

Gitzbitah wrote:Allow me to provide a few counterpoints to consider- the E-wing was never a Rebel Alliance ship- it was designed and used exclusively by the New Republic- yet it has no new faction icon.

The K- Wing, likewise, was never a Rebellion starfighter- and no new icon was produced for the New Republic.

1) The New Republic (in the Old EU) was a direct successor to the Alliance. The Resistance and First Order both appear to be more "In spirit" successors than direct descendants.

2) The New Republic did not have some well-known, instantly recognized by non-diehard fans, symbol. Resistance and First Order will both get silver screen presence, which will probably utilize their respective symbols. As such, their symbols will have an amount of recognition not given to the New Republic.

Gitzbitah wrote:Furthermore, both new factions include a new type of upgrade- which hasn't happened since SandV's illicit tech and crazy astromechs

3) While you may have a point with the Illicits, the Salvaged Mechs were more probably introduced because none of the Character Mechs specified that they were "Rebel Only".

4) Following on this, if they planned to split Resistance and Rebels, wouldn't they have made a different symbol for the Resistance Mechs?

Gitzbitah wrote:
Now I know what you're going to say- there's no way FFG would make half their fleet lineup unplayable- and I agree. That's why I expect the switch to come after a wave that includes 2 Most Wanted style upgrade packs- one for old craft the Resistance still flies and upgrades, and one for TIEs used by less well equipped First Order pilots.

Most Wanted upgraded and updated 4 ships for a faction- if FFG pulls the same trick, it could kickstart 2 new factions very easily.

5) Here's the thing- the only old ship we know that either faction uses is the Falcon. I could certainly see an Aces or Most-Wanted-style pack by the end of the trilogy, to add any new T-70 or Falcon pilots that they are remaining tight-lipped about, but we have no evidence that there are enough holdover ships to "kickstart" two new factions.

6) Why put in the effort duplicating old ships just to make a new faction, when the factions are (probably) close enough to the old ones in terms of fleets (Resistance may use B-wings, but not TIE Interceptors) that you could just leave them as-is, and increase everybodies options? Scum and Villainy got the treatment because the Scum ships that already existed were split between both factions. They couldn't just fold them into an existing faction, because then they would either miss out on basic ships (Z-95, Y-wing), an Iconic Ship and Pilot (Boba Fett), or end up blurring the factions by allowing the inclusion of these ships in both factions.

Can you guys maybe take the fluff political faction talk to its own thread? It's fascinating to ponder the geopolitical ramifications of regime change a long time ago in a galaxy far, far away but I'm not sure it's adding anything to the discussion of this starter set anymore. The fact is that for the purpose of THIS set, they're grouped together with the old factions.

So... I'm a bit miffed. I bought the new core set (I'll have four ties, what could go wrong?) thinking that I'd just get more copies of the Integrated Astromech card. What the hell? Is it in the T70 expansion pack?

 Mathieu Raymond wrote:
So... I'm a bit miffed. I bought the new core set (I'll have four ties, what could go wrong?) thinking that I'd just get more copies of the Integrated Astromech card. What the hell? Is it in the T70 expansion pack?

Yes and that isn't out yet.