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I think that was definitely part of the marketing for Shin Godzilla. Don't forget that Anno co-director was his old friend Higuchi from Daicon/Gainax. And Sagisu Shiro composed.

Compare:

You can definitely feel Anno's influence in the film, what with the fate of the world resting on the shoulders of a bunch of young people and all the lamentations about the older generation fething everything up at every turn that permeate the film.

Reminds me of that Xillennial thread in the OT a bit actually

I just got back from it.


I quite enjoyed it, political flick in a good way.


And those eyes were bloody terrifying.

 LordofHats wrote:
the fate of the world resting on the shoulders of a bunch of young people and all the lamentations about the older generation fething everything up

Very interesting point. In Shin Godzilla, the established leaders (the baby boomers) are not portrayed as responsible for the disaster but they do fail to formulate any effective response. It's up to the next generation to >>>think outside of the box<<<.

Of course ... how original ...

Thankfully, that's not all that's going on in Shin Godzilla. Yeah, young(er/ish) people have to come up with creative solutions but it's the institution of government itself that really saves the day. It's not so much about dark horse punks taking over where the squares failed. More like, this is a movie about millennials growing up into responsible adults, like their parents.

That also matches the way Anno's pendulum has swung towards positivity in Rebuild (so far). In their Plinkett review for the latest Indiana Jones flick, RLM emphasized that the the creative team had grown up, had kids who grew up, and became grandparents in the time separating Raiders from Crystal Skull. Maybe something similar can be said about the Gainax team.

Yeah, I was thinking along the same lines myself.

The films made by wild youngsters in which a bunch of wild youngsters save the day in the face of boring middle-aged authority reflect a world view that necessarily changes as people grow older and gain more of the dull responsibility of adult and family life

One of my favorite parts of Shin Godzilla is when the main character, a junior minister who takes on the ridiculous responsibility of solving the Godzilla crisis, is getting to his wits end under the stress. At which point, his slightly older mentor/big brother pal calmly but firmly hands him a bottle of water and advises him to cool off. From an American POV at least, it is such an understated scene. I once had this kind of moment at work, where I was - without really being aware of it - getting a bit wroked up. It's just a sign of immaturity. Thankfully, a friend pulled me aside and discretely and very gently put things in perspective with just a few, rather oblique words that immediately snapped me out of it. It was the feeling of growing up. In contrast to the notion of this feeling dull or being a matter of regret, it felt refreshing and stabalizing. I think that is how Shin Godzilla works, too: the characters are accepting responsibility, as opposed to chasing power.

 Manchu wrote:
I think that is how Shin Godzilla works, too: the characters are accepting responsibility, as opposed to chasing power.

I think this is a pretty good summation of the films central theme. To me the main thrust was about taking responsibility and being decisive rather than looking out for yourself (and this is as I understand it a common criticism in domestic Japanese politics). It's kind of a continuation in a way thematically from where Return of Godzilla left off.

Something else I noticed quite strongly was the "Japan can do this, we can do this" attitude toward problem solving displayed by the main cast with a rejection of relying too much of foreign powers (namely the United States) to solve the crisis while at the same time not rejected in full help. Obvious tie in to the current political direction of Japan as it enters the 21st century and seeks an increasing amounted of self reliance in its international affairs from the United States.

What a great thread breaking down the subtext of the film. I need to track this down.

Well there is a vast difference between the Japanese and Americans.

The Japs wish to prevent collateral, and are weary to pull in the SDF.

The Americans literally hand over a map and say "the bombs are going to land here, don't be here."

I think the movie was a kind of up front about Japan's ambivalence regarding its relationship with the US. At first, it seemed like they were gung ho about the US coming in with bombers to save the day but when that didn't work they immediately switched over to criticizing the US as wanting to solve everything with bombs.

To me, this goes back to the internal hypocrisy of the post-war era: the apparent 180 degree turn from an aggressive, militarized culture to claiming a special understanding of pacifism because Japan had - uniquely - been the target of atomic attack. But of course the reality was that Japan actually stepped right into line with the American geopolitical strategy, not least of all because it could revive its own battered social and material infrastructure by switching over from militaristic to economic aggression (like West Germany). All the while, the relationship to America, at first in terms of occupation, also served as cover for Japan to keep up a very conflicted pretense about its own recent past and self-image.

If you look at the '54 film, you can see how the monster gradually becomes the victim and the mad scientist inventing the next generation of super weapon gradually becomes the self-sacrificial hero who gives his life to prevent his work from being (further) weaponized. I think this is pretty clearly a fantasy meant to deal with war guilt and defeat guilt and surrender guilt. I believe those feelings, and their repression and rationalization, became very important to post-war Japanese culture and that you can see them, for example, in the Eva series, too.

 Manchu wrote:
I think the movie was a kind of up front about Japan's ambivalence regarding its relationship with the US. At first, it seemed like they were gung ho about the US coming in with bombers to save the day but when that didn't work they immediately switched over to criticizing the US as wanting to solve everything with bombs.

The important part is who was in charge at the time those things happened. When the US came in to drop bombs the older guys were still making the decisions. Then they end up in varying states of dead or disgrace with the younger deputy becoming acting head of the Japanese effort to eliminate Godzilla and he spent the entire film opposed to relying solely on the United States to solve Japan's problems.

If you look at the '54 film, you can see how the monster gradually becomes the victim and the mad scientist inventing the next generation of super weapon gradually becomes the self-sacrificial hero who gives his life to prevent his work from being (further) weaponized. I think this is pretty clearly a fantasy meant to deal with war guilt and defeat guilt and surrender guilt. I believe those feelings, and their repression and rationalization, became very important to post-war Japanese culture and that you can see them, for example, in the Eva series, too.

Agreed.

 Easy E wrote:
What a great thread breaking down the subtext of the film. I need to track this down.

It's an Anno.

As we saw with Eva, I always wonder how much is deliberate, and how much is inherent to the producer's inner zeitgeist.

Well the US plan was to nuke Tokyo, which is like the number one Japanese terror fantasy right?

I really liked this movie. I wish they'd do a sequel, or even a prequel manga focusing on the professor who had some connection to godzilla, Goru Maki.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Manchu wrote:
I think the movie was a kind of up front about Japan's ambivalence regarding its relationship with the US. At first, it seemed like they were gung ho about the US coming in with bombers to save the day but when that didn't work they immediately switched over to criticizing the US as wanting to solve everything with bombs.

To me, this goes back to the internal hypocrisy of the post-war era: the apparent 180 degree turn from an aggressive, militarized culture to claiming a special understanding of pacifism because Japan had - uniquely - been the target of atomic attack. But of course the reality was that Japan actually stepped right into line with the American geopolitical strategy, not least of all because it could revive its own battered social and material infrastructure by switching over from militaristic to economic aggression (like West Germany). All the while, the relationship to America, at first in terms of occupation, also served as cover for Japan to keep up a very conflicted pretense about its own recent past and self-image.

If you look at the '54 film, you can see how the monster gradually becomes the victim and the mad scientist inventing the next generation of super weapon gradually becomes the self-sacrificial hero who gives his life to prevent his work from being (further) weaponized. I think this is pretty clearly a fantasy meant to deal with war guilt and defeat guilt and surrender guilt. I believe those feelings, and their repression and rationalization, became very important to post-war Japanese culture and that you can see them, for example, in the Eva series, too.

I think america was fairly portrayed in the film. We ween;t saints or angels. There are several issues to remmeber.

1. it was disvovered that godzilla could be a potential existential threat to ALL humanity. Having never faced an X threat before the decision to nuke goidzilla wasunderstandable,especially since the lifeform could have wiped out all humanity tokyo wasn't really losing out.

2. it was said clearly the american president would have given the same order if it were new york. Hey, that's actually sensible.

3. American forces attacked godzilla to save tokyo and 3 aircrews died trying to save the city.

4. American ships were seen aiding the evacuation.

true america was in some way partly responsible for the creation of godzilla iun an unforseeable way, but a japanese names goru maki was as or more responsible.

Sure I guess the film is "fair" to the USA. But I don't think Japan's opinion about the USA is really at issue in the film. Rather, it's more like the film considers Japan's opinion about it's opinion about the USA. So again, at one point the Japanese are eager for American military intervention but then, when that doesn't immediately work, they criticize the USA for trying to solve problems with bombs. I think the film is aware of this contradiction and is pointing it out as a criticism.

 Manchu wrote:
Sure I guess the film is "fair" to the USA. But I don't think Japan's opinion about the USA is really at issue in the film. Rather, it's more like the film considers Japan's opinion about it's opinion about the USA. So again, at one point the Japanese are eager for American military intervention but then, when that doesn't immediately work, they criticize the USA for trying to solve problems with bombs. I think the film is aware of this contradiction and is pointing it out as a criticism.

To expand when I watched it seemed like the film seemed to spend a lot of time criticizing the older government type characters as hypocrites and "politicians" in the derogatory sense of the word. While they schemed and looked for advantage/covered their own asses from public and media criticism it was the younger characters who emphasized a comprehensive and practical solution to the crisis and tried to work together for mutual benefit. The film definitely seemed to be making a statement less about America and more about how Japan views America as well as how Japanese politics are played.

It's been a while since I saw the film but I don't recall that stringent criticism of the "establishment" - for example, the main character has two established mentors who not only survive but of course become even more senior after the crisis.

 Manchu wrote:
It's been a while since I saw the film but I don't recall that stringent criticism of the "establishment" - for example, the main character has two established mentors who not only survive but of course become even more senior after the crisis.

To summarize from TVTropes cause I'm too long winded;

Do Japan's politicians really care about their country by trying to do something about it, or do they want to get rid of Godzilla for their own means? At the same time, and most crucially to the film's criticism of the culture of Japanese politics, are they hesitating out of concern for their citizens, or concern they might have to shoulder the blame?

I don't think the establishment was the target as much as the the way the establishment behaves. Or maybe rather the best way to say is that the target was "the way the government operates" rather than just "the government." The older government types are portrayed negatively throughout the film while the idealistic younger secretaries are the heroes. The former constant delay for fear of how the public will perceive their actions, are always looking for where to shift blame, and often seem to use logical reasoning that is more concerned with their reputation than the well being of citizens.

Take for example the constant obstruction after the films opening when it comes to deploying the JSDF, where everyone's primary concern seems to be covering their own ass, which comes to fruition in the helicopter fight sequence where a single civilian in the area cause a complete break down of decision making ability as those in charge start worrying about what people will think about their decision instead about what decision is actually best for the problem at hand. And then there's just the whole background of how Godzilla came about in this one which basically amounts to "lets cover this up before it blows up in our faces oh wait we covered it up and it is now blowing up in our faces better shift blame!"

I saw this as juxtaposed by the mostly younger group of characters who were lower level officials/helpers/experts who never worried about such things and stayed firmly focused on the task at hand and coming up with solutions. While such governmental bumbling is common on Godzilla films it seemed to occupy a more central stage in Shin Godzilla though I guess that could just because Anno was there and the guy deconstructs everything in sight by his mere presence. However Japan's government being overly bureaucratic, slow to respond to crisis, and obsessed with public perception to the point of inaction are common criticisms of Japanese politics so I really don't think its a coincidence they show up so much in the film.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Manchu wrote:
Very interesting point. In Shin Godzilla, the established leaders (the baby boomers) are not portrayed as responsible for the disaster but they do fail to formulate any effective response. It's up to the next generation to >>>think outside of the box<<<.

Actually I just thought of this and returning to your above comment Manchu I think I just noticed something I'd overlooked.

The entire film can be summed up as a chain of repeating events; attempt to downplay the crisis, fail to respond, crisis exceeds expectations, respond, fail to be decisive as a direct result of previous unwillingness/lateness to act.

Spoilers;

The film didn't leave me with the impression that the establishment was corrupt (as in, only/primarily concerned with selfish CYA factors) so much as, well, the idea that leadership is the product of the circumstances in which it came to power and therefore unsuited to manage novel crises. IIRC there is some trepidatious reflection on this after Shingoji gets frozen, which (to my mind) explains the ominous last shot of Shingoji's bizarre tail tip.

 Manchu wrote:
The film didn't leave me with the impression that the establishment was corrupt (as in, only/primarily concerned with selfish CYA factors) so much as, well, the idea that leadership is the product of the circumstances in which it came to power and therefore unsuited to manage novel crises. IIRC there is some trepidatious reflection on this after Shingoji gets frozen, which (to my mind) explains the ominous last shot of Shingoji's bizarre tail tip.

I would agree with that. I think that while it presents the leadership of the country as a crisis unto itself the film doesn't go as far as to make those people villains. It plays out more like tragedy than villainy or even stupidity because their motivations and indecision are not completely beyond understanding.

Sure, when that chopper blows up there is no "hey that's what you get" feeling, just sadness.

As I understand it the. Main point of the film was a criticism of the Japanese government's slow, inadequate and disastrously poor reaction to the fukashima nuclear crisis.

The original PM was not bad, just unwilling to take decisive action early on when it could have been effective. Possibly a full assault against the early Godzilla form could have been effective but he refused to green light it because a handful of civilians would have been endangered, resulting in far more killed later.

The guy whining about his soggy noodles was clearly portrayed as a megadick.