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BP

Just got all packed up, what an awesome event! Thanks to MVBrandt and the whole Nova crew, walkie talkies and everything

Any place to see the games/see the results? Missed the streams and got n entire watch company to paint.

 Leth wrote:
Any place to see the games/see the results? Missed the streams and got n entire watch company to paint.

http://challonge.com/Nova2016OpenTop

http://app.torrentoffire.com/#/tournament/NOVA-Open-2016/gameday

https://www.twitch.tv/torrentoffire/profile

Heard a pretty disturbing story from the event on the mistreatment of a Disabled Vet and his Service Dog. And since I have met the dog several times I know this animal to be absolutely well behaved. Have to say that this story was very disappointing to hear.

 Cult of My Boy Blue wrote:
Heard a pretty disturbing story from the event on the mistreatment of a Disabled Vet and his Service Dog. And since I have met the dog several times I know this animal to be absolutely well behaved. Have to say that this story was very disappointing to hear.

This story has gotten pretty out of hand due to being put on social media - I know the guy in question, and he is a nice guy, but I also was maybe 30-40 ft away and saw when the event in question happened with the dog - and it did happen. I don't know why the choice was made to put this all over social media, but I'll say for something "real" like this (beyond all of our toy soldier nonsense :-p ) social media is rarely the best place to handle these things for either side.

Guess there are two sides to the story. Not being there gives me no right or wrong story. Would hope that if you were there and saw it that would be enough to find out if the events are true.

Target wrote:

 Cult of My Boy Blue wrote:
Heard a pretty disturbing story from the event on the mistreatment of a Disabled Vet and his Service Dog. And since I have met the dog several times I know this animal to be absolutely well behaved. Have to say that this story was very disappointing to hear.

This story has gotten pretty out of hand due to being put on social media - I know the guy in question, and he is a nice guy, but I also was maybe 30-40 ft away and saw when the event in question happened with the dog - and it did happen. I don't know why the choice was made to put this all over social media, but I'll say for something "real" like this (beyond all of our toy soldier nonsense :-p ) social media is rarely the best place to handle these things for either side.

Where can I find it on social media so I can decide for myself whether or not it belongs on social media?

Unfortunately, the individual related a story on social media that is unsupported by extensive witness report, including the report of one of his personal friends at the event.

As he later removed most of his comments on facebook and replaced them with something more moderated, i see no reason to draw attention or exaggerate the issue by calling for said testimony. Suffice to say the staff member who approached him is a service dog trainer, and asked him to follow appropriate protocol for a dog out of service (barking and needing to be forcibly held to the ground by its owner due to over excitement). The event was not major. Hotel security included a service dog expert, who - independent of nova - later met said individual at the door when he returned from walking his dog to attempt to get him calmed and back in service. My understanding is the individual presumed nova called security on him, became frustrated, and left.

Personally, my experience includes dolphin training and therapy dog certification, among other credentials. The dog in question was often under visible stress at the convention, and out of service. Service dogs are not to bark in excitement, or need to be physically restrained or suppressed by their handlers. It also has some challenges around other dogs, as the owner and others at ATC indicated to me prior to nova.

Nova includes staff with both service and therapy dogs, including the owner's mother's dog, which is both a family pet, certified therapy dog, and certified fema crisis response dog. The owner in question wished to let us know of the problem at ATC since he knew service and therapy dogs attended nova. I thanked him and said no problem, with the exception that the aforementioned fema/therapy dog's safety was obviously important to us.

I'll refer the broad peanut gallery to ADA and other references with regard to correct protocol when dealing with service dogs, how they must behave, etc. The interaction between nova staff and this individual occurred in front of his personal friend, a vendor who knew the dog well. Said vendor affirmed to me afterward that the nova staffer handled it very well, and that the owner in question seemed to handle it well. It was a surprise to me to later read his erroneous story on facebook, though i assumed it was done when he deleted many initial posts and left off with a "let it lie" final note.

Nova did not mishandle or mistreat a veteran and his service dog. There is sufficient testimony on record to leave me comfortable in the fact. It was a phenomenal convention!

Unfortunately, the individual related a story on social media that is unsupported by extensive witness report, including the report of one of his personal friends at the event.

+1. I saw the social media report and I also saw one of the incidents in question. Mike is being generous when he merely says the report is 'unsupported.'

Having not been to NOVA, I can only speak to my experiences at other events, and throughout my time in the mini-wargaming hobby, as a man with severe physical disabilities.

It has been my experience that the community and event organizers at large have been the MOST accommodating I have encountered in any area of my life. I have never had issues with physical accommodations at even the most local level, and have generally had no problems even when having my own opponents physically help me roll dice, or move models.

If anything, the hobby has been more therapeutic, social, and welcoming than anything else in my life, and I am grateful for how cool people really seem to be.

I'm still in the afterglow of NOVA and holy crap was that a fun event! I had an absolute blast taking my retro Ultramarines to the narrative, and between a bunch of really fun games, a lot of good beer, and a lot of new friends, I'll definitely be coming back next year!

I was not aware of the event concerning the service dog but I have seen this individual at other events and his treatment of his service dog was quite concerning to me.

Capital Palet was incredible. The quality of this event has increased exponentially throughout the years and the entries were the best I have ever seen. I would love to see separate catagories for professional and gamer as there is no way most gamers can compete at that level.

The paint classes were awesome as well. Thanks to all those that took time out to train. Jessica's class on how to paint females was probably one of the most fun and funniest paint classes I have ever taken. Rafi always has so much great info.

Charity events were awesome as well. The amount and quality of donations was very cool and I was very proud to be a part of it. I think over $18k was raised for Doctors across Borders. Great job to everyone involved.

As for the 40K event I was not as impressed as I have been in years past. Second round pairings were messed up with winners playing losers, ancillary scoring (paint, etc) was questionable, disorganized, and confusing, and there were some lists that several competitors were concerned with legality (most thought fortification formations were illegal per ITC army construction rules and the judge could not confirm or deny if this was true. It is possible NOVA made tweaks that I can not find to allow this). Missions were still the best in the competitive world in my opinion but NOVA's unwillingness to tweak rules to prevent some of the over powered combos like the ITC made this a very non-fun event to play in. I literally got tired of playing against 2+ reroll able saves. I really feel sorry for the people that had to deal with the Knights being moved forward via terrain and space marine powers then charging first turn. Not using GW FAQ meant I got to deal with armies strung all over the table with reroll 2+ saves and still benefiting from the void shield generator.

I have not missed many NOVA's but my experience at this years event leaves me with a bad taste and a questionable return. Several people I talked with seemed to feel the same way but I guess we shall see what they put in their comment card. Overall, at least at the 40K open event, it felt almost as if nobody was organizing and nobody cared. Maybe it is because I was not on a top table and the people in the kiddy pool don't matter to the staff since we are not playing for top prizes. I have seen NOVA get better every year but this year that was not the case. Right now I have no intention of returning in 2017. Maybe that will change as time progresses....who knows. I love most of the staff so maybe my desire to see friends will convince me to come again but a ten hour drive and $1000's spent may balance that out heh.

Joe - put your thoughts in the survey, too! That's good feedback, and we drive the con each year based heavily upon survey (Which should go out today or tomorrow latest).

the trophies are sick! Super pumped about mine.

I was frustrated by some of the rulings of the judges. One in particular went explicitly against NOVA's FAQ and it quite possibly cost me the game. I understand that maybe it wasn't the intention of the rule but you can't just say "that shouldn't say that" and tell us to play it differently. You gotta stick to whats written once you're at the event and halfway through the third round.

I loved the event and the missions are great but there was a lot of confusion with rulings and I hope that next year the ITC and nova FAQ can align much closer. I can keep a few things in mind but especially with the GW faqs coming out and muddying the waters, this year was very confusing.

 Cult of My Boy Blue wrote:
Heard a pretty disturbing story from the event on the mistreatment of a Disabled Vet and his Service Dog. And since I have met the dog several times I know this animal to be absolutely well behaved. Have to say that this story was very disappointing to hear.

From someone who was there and absolutely LOVES dogs. The dog was growling at people, bit someone, had to be muzzled (by the owner of his own accord). There was someone else there with two service dogs (two pitties) who were absolutely lovely and probably the most well behaved dogs I have ever been around (also maybe the lickiest dogs I have ever been around).

The biggest improvement I noticed this year (this being my 5th year) was having judges/officials going around and letting people know time was ticking and to wrap things up. Not in a mean way at all but definitely in a stern no-nonsense kind of way that I greatly appreciated. In past years I've played people who swore we could fit another turn in the next 10 or 15 minutes or "don't worry they let you continue playing past the time limit..." usually because they either knew they were going to lose without that extra turn or wanted to max out their points. So kudos to you guys going around and laying down the law - I appreciated it!

First time attendee, was at the narrative and recon squads.

Both were an absolute blast. You all did a stellar job for both events and we both had a great weekend. Thank you so much for the work.

The Recons, especially, were a nice way to relax after the bigger matches.

As always, had a blast. As Fishboy alluded to, the open was a bit bananas, but I personally attribute it to the state of the game and not NOVA itself. The GW FAQs put NOVA in a tough spot because of their draft and somewhat disorganized, inaccessible nature; if NOVA accepted some of the rulings there would be questions and confusion on any left out.

My one critique this year was the paint judging. It was a day later than it has been in the past, meaning final judging couldn't be done until Sunday during and between final rounds, rather than Saturday night. This made it tough because I know some people leave Saturday night or don't return to the hall on Sunday. It was also a bit disappointing as I take photos of the top armies every year, but I never saw the winner and his set up. I'm guessing his game went more or less to time or he was judged at table. Finally, there were a few armies that I felt out of place in the final judging, which made the preliminary judging feel inconsistent.

And yes, Mike, I included my feedback in the survey. Again, overall extremely positive and if anything the most fun one yet.

 Fishboy wrote:
As for the 40K event I was not as impressed as I have been in years past. Second round pairings were messed up with winners playing losers, ancillary scoring (paint, etc) was questionable, disorganized, and confusing, and there were some lists that several competitors were concerned with legality (most thought fortification formations were illegal per ITC army construction rules and the judge could not confirm or deny if this was true. It is possible NOVA made tweaks that I can not find to allow this). Missions were still the best in the competitive world in my opinion but NOVA's unwillingness to tweak rules to prevent some of the over powered combos like the ITC made this a very non-fun event to play in. I literally got tired of playing against 2+ reroll able saves. I really feel sorry for the people that had to deal with the Knights being moved forward via terrain and space marine powers then charging first turn. Not using GW FAQ meant I got to deal with armies strung all over the table with reroll 2+ saves and still benefiting from the void shield generator.

I have not missed many NOVA's but my experience at this years event leaves me with a bad taste and a questionable return. Several people I talked with seemed to feel the same way but I guess we shall see what they put in their comment card. Overall, at least at the 40K open event, it felt almost as if nobody was organizing and nobody cared. Maybe it is because I was not on a top table and the people in the kiddy pool don't matter to the staff since we are not playing for top prizes. I have seen NOVA get better every year but this year that was not the case. Right now I have no intention of returning in 2017. Maybe that will change as time progresses....who knows. I love most of the staff so maybe my desire to see friends will convince me to come again but a ten hour drive and $1000's spent may balance that out heh.

Took the words right out of my mouth. This was only my second NOVA, but otherwise my and my 3 friends' experience was very similar to Fishboy's. Basically it came down to 1) the game has reached a point (mainly in the psychic phase) where balance through missions alone is no longer possible and 2) Pairings were messed up. The quote I got was "I hate to see my GT winners in the 4th bracket". Problem is that if pairings aren't at least equitable for the first 4 rounds people aren't coming back for 7+8 and 2/3 of their tournament has been miserable. I also watched some wildly unbalanced games in the lower brackets that were likely a direct result of poor bracketing. I think a good hard look at battle points, win-loss records and margin of victory would be good going forward. It was better last year, and I'm not sure what changed.

On a positive, having GW there was great and I thoroughly enjoyed the 30K Knight Spearhead game, it was well-run and I got a cool trophy.

 greyknight12 wrote:
Pairings were messed up. The quote I got was "I hate to see my GT winners in the 4th bracket". Problem is that if pairings aren't at least equitable for the first 4 rounds people aren't coming back for 7+8 and 2/3 of their tournament has been miserable. I also watched some wildly unbalanced games in the lower brackets that were likely a direct result of poor bracketing. I think a good hard look at battle points, win-loss records and margin of victory would be good going forward. It was better last year, and I'm not sure what changed.

I'm not sure I understand the quote you reference here, or what you mean. I can just about guarantee you the pairing software has not changed at all since last year. The brackets looked about what I would have expected:

Bracket 1: 4-0 and high 3-1

Bracket 2-3: 3-1

Bracket 4-6: 2-2

Bracket 7-8: 1-3

Bracket 9: low 1-3 and 0-4

As for unbalanced games in lower brackets, honestly I took that to be the state of the game more than anything. Very few people were bringing the "stuff I had painted on my shelf" lists anymore, and the game has gotten extremely matchup unbalanced. Two of my friends in round 3 played very good imperial death star lists that were 0-2 at the time. Both won, making those very capable lists go 0-3, meaning they wound up in Bracket 7 or below.

I always enjoy coming out to the Nova Open After getting nothing but ITC events out on the west coast, and the Nova missions are a nice change

I finished all of my games on time which a lot of armies struggle to finish with in the ITC I do not know if it is because of the time it takes to roll all of those maelstrom missions, or if it is because of the deathstar nature of the Nova

The two downsides I felt were the choice to use Death from the Skies I am glad that none of my opponents wanted to use the Dogfighting Phase, but I depend on my crimson hunters for my anti-tank, and being -1 BS sucked

The other head scratcher was choosing to give warp spyders infinite jumps. I understand that GWs FAQ is still in its trail state, but the change to warp spyders was an official errata that is a change to the codex.

 Blackmoor wrote:
The other head scratcher was choosing to give warp spyders infinite jumps. I understand that GWs FAQ is still in its trail state, but the change to warp spyders was an official errata that is a change to the codex.

Not going to speak for Phil or NOVA, but the draft and unofficial nature of the GW FAQs put NOVA in a tough spot. And while it may say "official errata" or whatever on their facebook page, it's still not included on their website in the published PDF FAQs. The reason NOVA was in a tough spot, in my opinion, was that if they took the Warp Spider change, or Thunderwolves S10, then it becomes difficult to differentiate between why some Draft FAQs or whatever were or were not accepted.

 FTGTEvan wrote:

 greyknight12 wrote:
Pairings were messed up. The quote I got was "I hate to see my GT winners in the 4th bracket". Problem is that if pairings aren't at least equitable for the first 4 rounds people aren't coming back for 7+8 and 2/3 of their tournament has been miserable. I also watched some wildly unbalanced games in the lower brackets that were likely a direct result of poor bracketing. I think a good hard look at battle points, win-loss records and margin of victory would be good going forward. It was better last year, and I'm not sure what changed.

I'm not sure I understand the quote you reference here, or what you mean. I can just about guarantee you the pairing software has not changed at all since last year. The brackets looked about what I would have expected:

Bracket 1: 4-0 and high 3-1

Bracket 2-3: 3-1

Bracket 4-6: 2-2

Bracket 7-8: 1-3

Bracket 9: low 1-3 and 0-4

As for unbalanced games in lower brackets, honestly I took that to be the state of the game more than anything. Very few people were bringing the "stuff I had painted on my shelf" lists anymore, and the game has gotten extremely matchup unbalanced. Two of my friends in round 3 played very good imperial death star lists that were 0-2 at the time. Both won, making those very capable lists go 0-3, meaning they wound up in Bracket 7 or below.

My reference was (I know this as fact) match ups were messed up as soon as round two where top winning players were playing players on the bottom tables. When reported they were told not to worry about it since a game had already started so the baby seal clubbing began early. Also some players were told to "cool their jets" since it was only round two. I think this was said in jest but still came off quite arrogant since it was the staff that made the mistake and seemed condescending to the players. That really added to the feeling that they just didn't care.

Had a great time at NOVA, huge thanks to Mike Brandt and everyone that spent the year prior prepping and several long days to bring together an amazing event. It was my second time in four years (out of country 2014/2015) and I plan to be back for 2017.

I had six great games in the 40 Open GT, and I plan to bring a 30k army next year to participate, its almost overwhelming in the best ways.

 Fishboy wrote:

Spoiler:

 FTGTEvan wrote:

 greyknight12 wrote:
Pairings were messed up. The quote I got was "I hate to see my GT winners in the 4th bracket". Problem is that if pairings aren't at least equitable for the first 4 rounds people aren't coming back for 7+8 and 2/3 of their tournament has been miserable. I also watched some wildly unbalanced games in the lower brackets that were likely a direct result of poor bracketing. I think a good hard look at battle points, win-loss records and margin of victory would be good going forward. It was better last year, and I'm not sure what changed.

I'm not sure I understand the quote you reference here, or what you mean. I can just about guarantee you the pairing software has not changed at all since last year. The brackets looked about what I would have expected:

Bracket 1: 4-0 and high 3-1

Bracket 2-3: 3-1

Bracket 4-6: 2-2

Bracket 7-8: 1-3

Bracket 9: low 1-3 and 0-4

As for unbalanced games in lower brackets, honestly I took that to be the state of the game more than anything. Very few people were bringing the "stuff I had painted on my shelf" lists anymore, and the game has gotten extremely matchup unbalanced. Two of my friends in round 3 played very good imperial death star lists that were 0-2 at the time. Both won, making those very capable lists go 0-3, meaning they wound up in Bracket 7 or below.

My reference was (I know this as fact) match ups were messed up as soon as round two where top winning players were playing players on the bottom tables. When reported they were told not to worry about it since a game had already started so the baby seal clubbing began early. Also some players were told to "cool their jets" since it was only round two. I think this was said in jest but still came off quite arrogant since it was the staff that made the mistake and seemed condescending to the players. That really added to the feeling that they just didn't care.

Because I'm a nerd, I took a look. There were 3 mis-pairings in round 2, with a winner playing someone who had lost. One looks to just be that there was an odd number of tables, so one winner had to play a loser from round 1 (Werner Born vs. Gerraint Jennens). The other two it looks like one table from Round 1 (Carlos Kaiser vs Brad Voorhees) had the score flipped, and later fixed, which resulted in Carlos being paired down while Brad was paired up.

Carlos was a good guy. I played him second round. And we had fun. He had max score, a win, and should have been on the top table. I had zero points and a loss. It was not a pair down but a scoring entry mistake by the judges. I had heard there were two other similar issues in round two.

Edit to add...the player that Carlos tabled in turn three (I think Carlos said it was a quick game but many games have followed since then hehe) of round one with a loss and minimal score was playing on the top table where Carlos should have been.

Just saw a write up of the Top 16 lists and I had two questions. One: is Renegade and Heretics that good? Saw them a bunch. Two: can we ban Come the Apocalypse allies? Seeing things like Daemons and Eldar really makes me cringe.

Did a bit of analysis on the results, which you can find here: http://ftgtgaming.blogspot.com/2016/09/nova-recap-part-2-40k-gt-stats.html?m=0

Also, if you remove TombKing's performance from renegades, they fall closer to 50% win rate.

 jreilly89 wrote:
Just saw a write up of the Top 16 lists and I had two questions. One: is Renegade and Heretics that good? Saw them a bunch. Two: can we ban Come the Apocalypse allies? Seeing things like Daemons and Eldar really makes me cringe.

It makes me cringe too, but it's a GT where narrative is supposed to be thrown out the window.