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 alanmckenzie wrote:
The rumour is Styles heading for a clash with Shane McMahon......

.......

........

AJ Styles is another bugbear of mine.

I gather he's a long established and exceptionally talented wrestler, and that certainly shows through in his matches.

But again, his Heel Goons always interfere(d, not watched in a while!) taking some of the edge off his appeal.

That is, for better or worse, a well establish 'Heel Gimmick' and probably isn't going to go away anytime soon as it is an easy psychological trick for audience manipulation.

It doesn't always work, and 'smart' fans tire of it too, but cheating to win will always be the Hallmark of the Heel!

As we previously discussed though, just having Heels straight up win via beatdowns is OK too, and should be used more.

Interestingly enough, that gets old too - see: Braun Strowman, a wrestler that bores me to death, but who clearly fits the Vince McMahon 'This Guy's A Star!!!!" mode...

Depends on the heel. Guys like HHH, Orton, the Miz are really unlikable natural heels. As I've said before, a lot of WWE's current heels are too likeable to be effective (Styles, Owens, etc).

And Alpharius is right, there is a place for the cowradly/cheating gimmick, but the best heels were also strong in their own right.

HHH (one of the best) often had his goons on hand, but you knew that when it came to it he could really wreck face (Cactus Jack's face for example).

Uh oh...

This Tuesday on Smackdown LIVE, Randy Orton will face AJ Styles to decide the WWE Title No. 1 Contender at Wrestlemania.

Didn't we just have:

The Royal Rumble to decide that?

Didn't Orton then give up his title shot?

Which led to a 10-Man Over the Top match on Smackdown to decide that?

Which then led to a Lucker Harper vs. Styles on Smackdown to decide that?

I can see Orton winning, Styles blaming Shane (rightfully or not) for it, and then we get the match that ONLY WWE want to see at Wrestlemania - Shane vs. AJ?

Ugh.

Having the #1 Contender tag apparently...doesn't mean what it used to mean (mostly)?

Well, so goes Kevin Owens' reign.

Admittedly, a horribly booked reign from the start, but going out in a squash vs. Goldberg?

Not cool.

Does that mean that someone else will get inserted into the GOLDBERG V. LESNAR match at Wrestlemania?

Because either one as Champ past that event is...not good. No more part-time champs!

And speaking of a possible 'someone' who might get inserted:

I was shocked that Roman Reigns ended up beating Strowman too - didn't see that coming.

Will WWE try to - once again - get Reigns over on the Grandest Stage Of Them All?!?

Isn't wrestling fake?

 Retrogamer0001 wrote:
Isn't wrestling fake?

...

Moving right along in our continued discussion over the scripted form of entertainment known as Professional Wrestling...

I get WHY the WWE U-Title match was a squash:

1) Goldberg needs to be 'protected' as his match with Lesnar at Wrestlemania will be a huge draw, and at his age, injury in the ring is a very real possibility!
2) Even in his prime, did Goldberg matches last more than 3 or 4 minutes anyway?
3) Adding the WWE U-Title to the match makes it EVEN BIGGAH!

I still don't like either one of them with the title though...

Rumors of Undertaker and possibly Finn Bálor showing up on tonight's RAW!

 Retrogamer0001 wrote:
Isn't wrestling fake?

It's real, but scripted.

Edit: Alph, let me know if Finn shows up. I never really got to experience him as Prince Devitt..

Side note: Went to an NXT show on Friday. It friggin awesome to see Bobby Roode, Johnny Gargano (local Cleveland kid), Tommy End again (though Aleister Black now), and Chris Hero and Shinsuke Nakamura live. I may dislike most of the WWE, but man seeing those dudes put on a great show was well worth my 20 dollars of admission.

$20 is a great price for that talent - nicely done!

...and just like that, we're one step closer to AJ vs. Shane at...

...Wrestlemania.

New, that doesn't sound good at all.

Also, has anyone played the World Wide Wrestling RPG? Figured that wouldn't be too off topic since it's about pro graps

It's just such a waste of AJ.

Is there any, any, way that Shane finds himself a proxy from NXT or somewhere?

I doubt it.

At least, if anyone can carry Shane to a decent 'mania match, it's AJ Styles. In fact, sadly, the way 'mania is shaping up, its probably going to be the 3rd or 4th best match on the card.

I've not got a lot of confidence in this event. Particularly after FastLane.

Can we try find some potential positives though? How many can we get?

1. Jericho - Owens match will be good.

2. RAW Women's match should be good if they can work the triple threat well.

3. Wyatt should be tuning face and going over Orton in a big way.

3.5. Lesnar Goldberg may be interesting if only to see what they might do with the title going forward... presumably with Lesnar.

4. American Alpha should be wrestling

5. Ummmm.... Finn Balor and/or Rollins might show up? Maybe?

Any more?



As an aside...

On Monday night, away for work and sitting in a hotel room, I watched WCPW's Exit Wounds event which was streamed live on YouTube. Drew Galloway, Will Ospreay, Cody Rhodes, Marty Scurll, David Starr, and more put on a good show. Some real good matches in there.

It's still on Youtube, so perhaps worth a watch if you fancy rinsing the WWE out of your eyes for a while.

On WCPW, have any of you been looking at this World Cup thing they've organised? 64 man tournament, various dates, various venues. It's quite the ambitious venture and there are a few big names signed up. All free on YouTube as well.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Alfndrate wrote:


Also, has anyone played the World Wide Wrestling RPG? Figured that wouldn't be too off topic since it's about pro graps

Never even heard of it, but intrigued?

It's a small indie RPG where the players are wrestlers in a TV promotion where the GM is the creative team. The players all have a class (Jobber, veteran, monster, manager, etc...) And they create their gimmick. Moves are more vague like Work the Audience or Off the Top Rope and you roll 2d6 and add your associated stat. 10+ is a critical success, 7-9 is a success, 4-6 is a minor failure and 1-3 is a botch. The objective of each player is to get the biggest audience they can and of course win a championship belt or three.

Matches are predetermined and the players describe what their wrestlers do, and a player not involved in the match plays the role of announcer and can put over one of the wrestlers if they like what the player is doing.

Book is only 20 dollars, and the PDF is 8 bucks on drive thru RPG atm.

I'm running it Friday for some non-wrestling fans

WWE Women's Division is where it's at for me at the moment

*runs off to cleanse following two uses of 'where it's at'*

Right. Back.

For me, there's more of a hunger for it in the Wrestlers - they know they've got to impress, because there'll be a slice of the crowd still wanting mud matches or bra and panties matches, reducing the female stable to mere titillation.

But when you actually watch the ladies in the ring - their athleticism is frankly stunning, and for my money far more interesting to watch than many of the male heavyweight matches (apart from Neville, who is technically superb). When they can't rely on the brute strength angle, you get a much, much better match.

Finn Bálor is back in the wrestling ring!

https://411mania.com/wrestling/wwe-raw-house-show-results-3-11-17-toronto-ontario-finn-balor-and-triple-h-featured-in-six-man-tag-team-main-event/

Sure, it is in a somewhat 'protected' role (6-man tag match) - but that's definitely the best way to ease him back into the process.

And that match *might* be a preview of what he'll be up to at Wrestlemania, especially if Rollins can't go.

Bálor/Zayn vs. HHH/Joe - or even a Bálor/Joe match?

 Alpharius wrote:
Finn Bálor is back in the wrestling ring!

https://411mania.com/wrestling/wwe-raw-house-show-results-3-11-17-toronto-ontario-finn-balor-and-triple-h-featured-in-six-man-tag-team-main-event/

Sure, it is in a somewhat 'protected' role (6-man tag match) - but that's definitely the best way to ease him back into the process.

And that match *might* be a preview of what he'll be up to at Wrestlemania, especially if Rollins can't go.

Bálor/Zayn vs. HHH/Joe - or even a Bálor/Joe match?

I can't open that link at work, but I think I seen the photo. Jericho and KO were the other two in the match?

Caveat - I haven't watched last night's RAW yet, but...

Bálor/Zayn vs. HHH/Joe seems likely. However, I think it depends on how fit Rollins is.... or rather who is more fit from Rollins and Balor.

I think whoever doesn't start the match is definitely a potential run-in.

How does this sound?

Rollins/Zayn vs. HHH/Joe.... Balor (Demon King) runs in to attack Rollins (revenge for the injury), then joins HHH's badass new Authority stable.


As to women's wrestling Doc, can't disagree with what you're saying. And outside WWE it's even more interesting.

For me, it just adds variety to a card. There's room on any wrestling event for half a dosen different styles of wrestler and match. Each, when executed well, are an equal joy to watch. I like the big guys, but also thoroughly enjoy the women's game. I just like good wrestling, I suppose.

It is VERY hard to successfully make a 'returning' Wrestler a Heel when they come back - especially if they were a Babyface when they left.

Sure, you can do the tried and true "WHERE WERE YOU WHEN I WAS DOWN?!?!?!?" angle, but I still think they'll have Finn return Babyface.

Though I do like your idea!

Local promotion put on their annual Battle Royale last night. Lots of awesome wrestling including a pretty long brawl between Bad Boy Joey Janela and Scott Norton (yes that Scott Norton) in which Scott put Joey through a concession table and then dragged Joey back into the ring for the pin.

Signed up to WWE Network again.

Fast lane was fun, if short on surprises/upsets - and now exploring the Cruiser Weight division.

Sad news about JR's wife this week. Poor fella.

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:Signed up to WWE Network again.

Fast lane was fun, if short on surprises/upsets - and now exploring the Cruiser Weight division.

Good stuff. There's a lot of gems on there. I listen to Bruce Prichard's podcast every week, so a lot of my Network time is spent watching a lot of the events, wrestlers which they are covering at the time.

They done an episode on Beyond the Mat (which isn't on the network sadly, but can be found on youtube) recently. It was really interesting watching that again with adult eyes, particularly with the podcast commentary.

Alfndrate wrote:Local promotion put on their annual Battle Royale last night. Lots of awesome wrestling including a pretty long brawl between Bad Boy Joey Janela and Scott Norton (yes that Scott Norton) in which Scott put Joey through a concession table and then dragged Joey back into the ring for the pin.

Who is your local promotion Alf? I'll give them a follow on twitter so that I've a better idea of what you're watching.

In my local scene, I went to ICW's Fight Club in Glasgow again last Sunday. Seen Tyler Bate in action for the first time. ICW are currently building to their first big show of the year, Barramania III. One of the angles going into it is a really well done worky-shooty set-up between Joe Hendry and Lionheart. I honestly have no idea how much of this is a work. I believe it started at the ICW show I was at in January, Lionheart was cutting an in-ring promo and flippantly called Joe's girlfriend a dog or something. It was in response to a crowd chant poking fun a Lionheart posting selfies with his dog on twitter. "Selfies wi' yer dug, Wi' yer dug, Seeelllfies wi' yer dug.

Anyway, it developed into them having into an actual fight during a match at a show in Manchester. The fight was broken up and the match was cancelled. The footage has been cut from their ondemand service but you can find it on twitter if you search "Joe Hendry Lionheart Manchester". Not much happened really (except one pretty nice double leg take-down).

They were then in the ring together again in Glasgow last Sunday where they announced the match for Barramania... and where Lionheart threatened to stab Hendry.... it's all heating up




ICW can be really good at this kind of thing. See this promo below from Drew Galloway (aka Drew McIntyre). The guy wants an Oscar for this. Fights were breaking out in the crowd, people were being kicked out, it was crazy.




The Scottish qualifiers for WCPW's world cup took place in Motherwell (just outside Glasgow) on Thursday night. Grown-up woes meant I couldn't make it, but it was a really, really strong card. I don't know what the results were but it's being broadcast on youtube on the 31st of March. I suggest that'll be well worth a watch



Also, on the 28th of April, Pete Dunne is wrestling Joe Coffey (Local lad who I really like) in the hall where I'm getting married and which is around 200 meters from where I live....can't make it, again. Gutted.

And... I seen Grado just along the road at an indoor food festival on Saturday. I believe he's wrestling in Manchester tonight in the first tapings of the new episodes of ITV's World of Sport. For those not in the UK, wikipedia says "World of Sport is a British television sport programme which ran on ITV between 2 January 1965 and 28 September 1985 in competition with the BBC's Grandstand. Like Grandstand, the programme ran for several hours every Saturday afternoon." Our parents can all remember the days when millions in Britain watched pro-wrestling every Saturday afternoon, and the wrestlers were legit superstars.

The local promotion I attend is called Absolute Intense Wrestling (aiwrestling on most social media). I just started going last year, but the shows are always pretty good. They do monthly shows for the most part with their "WrestleMania" taking place in July at their annual show called Absolution. They have a pretty good stable of wrestlers, some home grown talent like WWE's Johnny Gargano, half of RoH's Tag team War Machine Raymond Rowe, and Lucha Underground's Son of Havoc. The promoters are also huge old school wrestling fans, so they've brought in some.old guys like Terry Funk, the late Dennis Stamp, Tracy Smothers, and dudes like Scott Norton.

They're not like one of the big Super Indies like AAW in Chicago, Evolve, or PWG in California, but they're good.

I wish we had a more active local scene here...

Looking forward to Wrestlemania, I don't think Finn returns before then - or maybe not possibly even during the event?

I hope his push isn't gone now - I hope when he comes back he's in the main title hunt still.

I think he probably will be, as the top Babyface position isn't really filled on RAW right now.

 Alfndrate wrote:
The local promotion I attend is called Absolute Intense Wrestling (aiwrestling on most social media). I just started going last year, but the shows are always pretty good. They do monthly shows for the most part with their "WrestleMania" taking place in July at their annual show called Absolution. They have a pretty good stable of wrestlers, some home grown talent like WWE's Johnny Gargano, half of RoH's Tag team War Machine Raymond Rowe, and Lucha Underground's Son of Havoc. The promoters are also huge old school wrestling fans, so they've brought in some.old guys like Terry Funk, the late Dennis Stamp, Tracy Smothers, and dudes like Scott Norton.

They're not like one of the big Super Indies like AAW in Chicago, Evolve, or PWG in California, but they're good.

I'll keep an eye on it.

War Machine are on the card for ICW's Barramania. Can't say that I know much about them though.


______________________________________

OK.

WRESTLEMANIA 33 PREDICTION TIME!!!

Let’s do it….

ATGBR - Got to be Strowman. Not that the match means much. Bit of a shame that Zayn will be thrown under the bus again. And I’m disappointed that this where American Alpha have ended up. Their match where they lost the titles to the Usos was really good. I find it strange that WWE don’t think that a rematch (which would be another fine match,) where AA get a feelgood win, is a worthwhile way to spend 15 minutes of ‘Mania.

Neville vs Aries – Hopefully Neville. I’d like to see him kept strong until a really talented, popular babyface can emerge from somewhere.

Bellena vs Mizryse – John and Nicki

AJ Styles vs Shane McMahon – Styles. Can’t be anything but Styles clean.

HHH vs Rollins – Rollins. Although if there are any shenanigans on Sunday night, they’ll be here. I notice Samoa Joe isn’t on the card anywhere, so I expect him here. And if, if, Balor shows up, it’ll be here. So, hopefully Rollins picks up the win, but I do not think it’ll be a clean one.

Undertaker vs Reigns – Reigns. On RAW this week, I really thought they were teasing a Buried Alive match. Either way, I think ‘Taker goes down.

Smackdown Women’s Title – Maybe Naomi? Or Becky Lynch.

RAW Women’s Title – Sasha Banks

RAW Tag Team Titles – I’m unsure about this, but I’ll go for Gallows and Anderson. Enzo and Cass could get it because they seem to be popular. I’d like Sheamus and Cesaro to win. But I’m predicting Anderson and Gallows.

US Title - Owens. Jericho does the job. Owens looks strong and gets even… heelier?

IC Title – Ambrose. Not particularly keen on him, but I think Ambrose will come away with it. Probably deserves a triumphant WM moment.

Smackdown Title – Surely has to be Wyatt. Needs to be Wyatt. This storyline had been going really well, but it’s tailed off a bit I think. People should be booing Orton to the moon by now, but they aren’t.

RAW Title – Lesnar. No Doubt about it.

Match of the Night – Owens vs Jericho. Special mention to Cena/Bella vs Miz/Maryse which I actually think will be really good.

Outside Bet Shock of the Night 1. Balor run-in, attacks Rollins, aligns with HHH/Joe.

Outside Bet Shock of the Night 2. Kurt Angle interrupts someone’s promo or celebration. Maybe Lesnar's?

Disappointment of the Night – New Day’s “Comedy”

You know, looking over that list, it’s not a bad card at all. I think some of the fueds could have been built and timed a little better to peak here, but overall I’m fairly optimistic for a decent show. As long as there isn’t too much filler, not too much New Day, and not too much Rock squashing current promising young wrestlers.

How are you guys feeling about it?

Because you laid it out nicely for me, here we go!

 alanmckenzie wrote:



WRESTLEMANIA 33 PREDICTION TIME!!!

Let’s do it….

ATGBR - Got to be Strowman. Not that the match means much. Bit of a shame that Zayn will be thrown under the bus again. And I’m disappointed that this where American Alpha have ended up. Their match where they lost the titles to the Usos was really good. I find it strange that WWE don’t think that a rematch (which would be another fine match,) where AA get a feelgood win, is a worthwhile way to spend 15 minutes of ‘Mania.

I couldn't care less about this one either - it really does exist just to stuff people into Wrestlemania that otherwise wouldn't have a match...

But yes, the Strow-boner continues, and he 'wins'.

Neville vs Aries – Hopefully Neville. I’d like to see him kept strong until a really talented, popular babyface can emerge from somewhere.

I actually think this one goes to Aries, and The Greatest Man That Ever Lives wins it here!

Bellena vs Mizryse – John and Nicki

I would LOVE for the Miz to crush Cena and Nikki, but, yeah, Cena gets the win - AND proposes to Nikki.

AJ Styles vs Shane McMahon – Styles. Can’t be anything but Styles clean.

Agreed! It HAS to be Styles CLEAN.

HHH vs Rollins – Rollins. Although if there are any shenanigans on Sunday night, they’ll be here. I notice Samoa Joe isn’t on the card anywhere, so I expect him here. And if, if, Balor shows up, it’ll be here. So, hopefully Rollins picks up the win, but I do not think it’ll be a clean one.

Agreed again - and yes, Joe defintiely shows up and this is also the best (Only?) place for a Balor 'surprise' appearance too.

I think you MIGHT be on to something with your Balor Heel Turn here, but it is REALLY hard to have a returning Babyface instantly go heel - especially at Wrestlemania, so I'm hoping/thinking it is a straight up Babyface save IF he shows at all.

Undertaker vs Reigns – Reigns. On RAW this week, I really thought they were teasing a Buried Alive match. Either way, I think ‘Taker goes down.

Tradition is you always lose your last match - are they going to let Reigns 'retire' The Undertaker - at Wrestlemania?

Maybe.

It would be a great time to FINALLY turn Reigns heel...

Smackdown Women’s Title – Maybe Naomi? Or Becky Lynch.

It is Naomi's hometown, so it will be hard for her to NOT win, but I hope she doesn't. I'm a big Alexa Bliss fan, so I hope she somehow gets the miracle win here and retains.

RAW Women’s Title – Sasha Banks

They'll restore Flair's lost PPV luster here and she'll get the win.

Unless Dana Brooke costs her the title somehow?!?

RAW Tag Team Titles – I’m unsure about this, but I’ll go for Gallows and Anderson. Enzo and Cass could get it because they seem to be popular. I’d like Sheamus and Cesaro to win. But I’m predicting Anderson and Gallows.

Unfortunately, I think this is where Enzo and Cass finally cash in.

WWE has criminally mismanaged Gallows and Anderson from the start - look for that to continue.

US Title - Owens. Jericho does the job. Owens looks strong and gets even… heelier?

Maybe... I think you're right, Ownes wins and Jericho chases for a bit, than goes off on tour with Fozzy for a bit?

IC Title – Ambrose. Not particularly keen on him, but I think Ambrose will come away with it. Probably deserves a triumphant WM moment.

Dean's kinda lost right now - I think Baron gets the win here and Dean...er...I dunno...

Smackdown Title – Surely has to be Wyatt. Needs to be Wyatt. This storyline had been going really well, but it’s tailed off a bit I think. People should be booing Orton to the moon by now, but they aren’t.

Agreed!

This storyline has gone from bad to ultra-stupid quickly.

Can't stand ORton though, so yes, I'm biased there.

RAW Title – Lesnar. No Doubt about it.

It HAS to be Lesnar, but is that why it won't be?

Can't stand Lesnar either, and having a part-timer as champ again - ugh.

But he is less of a part-timer than Goldberg, so...hurrah?

As for Best Match...I can't believe I'm saying this but...Styles/McMahon? Maybe!

Or HHH/Rollins - IF Rollins can move around - but he might need to be protected, so expect a lot of run ins there...

Worst match - Smackdown Women's Championship

I'll be away on vacation though, so I won't be able to watch!

Spoiler the results here ASAP for me!

 Alpharius wrote:


Spoiler the results here ASAP for me!

Nope

I won't get a chance to watch it until Tuesday at the very earliest (difficult to find an uninterupted 217hours in which to watch the whole show in one sitting), so I'll be trying to avoid spoilers til then. Then I'll have to catch up with RAW late as well.

I'll log back in here after I've seen it to discuss and reap acclaim for my 100% prediction hit rate.

There must be somewhere streaming live updates for you though?

Not tempted to try avoid spoilers and watch it later?

Worst match - Smackdown Women's Championship

Yup. Although I'm not excited about the IC Title match.

AND proposes to Nikki

Yikes!

Well, I'm out of the country until April 7, so feel free to spoil away on Tuesday then - and prepare to be amazed as my predictions beat yours!

Whatever happens, I hope Enzo and Cass take a beating. The goons.

It's like watching the Wee Mouthy Ned and Big Goon Ned. Every single time.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Whatever happens, I hope Enzo and Cass take a beating. The goons.

It's like watching the Wee Mouthy Ned and Big Goon Ned. Every single time.

On this we are in complete agreement!

However, I really do think that, unfortunately, they'll be winning it at Wrestlemania...

Bah! Bah I say!

Right, Walking Dead tonight, then Big Si is coming round Thursday to help jump start my car (the perils of not driving for a couple of months...), and to watch Wrestlemania. Probably with Pizza and Crisps and Fizzy Pop*



*But not Dizzyade, for it is a school night.


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The Deadman has walked.

Thank you Undertaker for 27 years of top notch wrasslin' nonsense.

I shall throw myself through a steel cage, through a folding table and onto some thumbtacks in your honour.

Watching my way through Wrestlemania.

Pretty damned good - apart from the Orton/Wyatt match. Absolutely no pace to it, and the projection gimmick just made it worse.