What percentage of 40k fans on dakka are female

Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:

No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.

If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

**Azreal13**

Whatever, I'm not going to get dragged into any long discussion about this. One post in and you're already strawmanning "making light" into "abuse" and throwing words like triggered around. This isn't the basis for any sort of constructive discussion.

**JNAProductions**

Azreal13 wrote:
Whatever, I'm not going to get dragged into any long discussion about this. One post in and you're already strawmanning "making light" into "abuse" and throwing words like triggered around. This isn't the basis for any sort of constructive discussion.

So, reading Scarlet Rose's post, they never once said abuse, and while they did say the word triggered, they didn't say anyone was.

The only strawman I see is yours here.

**Azreal13**

You don't have to be disabled to see someone bullying a disabled person

Bullying is a form abuse dude. Weren't you aware? As for triggered, my point was more that once that sort of language starts flying, it's a good indicator that reasonable discourse is on its way out of the door. Hence I am following it.

**JNAProductions**

Azreal13 wrote:
You don't have to be disabled to see someone bullying a disabled person

Bullying is a form abuse dude. Weren't you aware?

Bullying can be considered abuse, sure. But, least as far as I know, abuse has stronger connotations than bullying. If you're working under a different definition, that'd at least explain the difference.

**Azreal13**

No, you're using semantics. Abuse has no codified definition as far as I'm aware that means it has stopped being bullying.

**flamingkillamajig**

JNAProductions wrote:
flamingkillamajig wrote:
Well personally I think yeah they should be treated well (though it depends more how nice said trans person or whoever is) but the whole gender fluid, non-binary and to an extent Trans stuff sounds more like a disorder. I have a disorder and that's ok. I have autism and am lucky enough to be fairly high functioning. Yes it sucks to have a disorder and you often get made fun of. We're all nerds and awkward though so I assume we've all been made fun of at one point. Some people are just jerks. That's life man. You can't let it get you down.

Because i'm nice however i'll go along with the gender people identify as in the choices. I only wish people could've been more respectful of my disorders but at least they understood medication would help.
Being trans is not a disorder. I'm sorry that people weren't understanding of your issues, but that's no reason to make light of someone else's struggles.

I'm not really trying to make light of anybody's issues. Thing is you can choose whether or not to let it bother you. Yeah sometimes things they say bug me but you know what a lot of those people are jerks and they tend to get people to hate them anyway.

I have known people with my disorder that don't try though and lean on their disorder as an excuse to do nothing however. I'd say I've even done this myself with taking a while to get a job but it helps and gives you self worth. I get Trans people do go through some crap and then there are famous ones with huge fan-bases. Perhaps you can't let the bad people get to you and just gotta believe in yourself more. Seeing myself as a victim has never helped me and in some cases self-improvement has done far more for me than feeling sorry about myself ever has. Not to mention feeling sorry for yourself is a bit selfish and sometimes you concentrate on how bad things are for you that you forget to realize other people trying to help you. In some cases you see their interaction even if sympathetic as a threat so you attack believing you're defending yourself. Believe me I've been bullied and I get the victim idea but you can't look at yourself as a constant victim if you want to grow as a person.

Anyway I say all that with experience. There are people that have tried to help me that I totally lashed out at verbally. When you find out about it you feel like such a jerk.

**JNAProductions**

Azreal13 wrote:
No, you're using semantics. Abuse has no codified definition as far as I'm aware that means it has stopped being bullying.

If John in high school calls Bob mean names, and Bob's response is "I wish he'd be nicer, but whatever," is that bullying? I'd say yes. (And that's something that should be stopped.) Is that abuse? I'd say no.

More on the point, you're at the very least coming off as insensitive. If that's not your intent, that's good, but then you might want to adjust your language.

**Azreal13**

Wiki wrote:Bullying is the use of force, coercion, or threat, to abuse , aggressively dominate or intimidate

Are we done now?

Or would you like a crack at arguing that abusing somebody doesn't always constitute abuse?

**JNAProductions**

Azreal13 wrote:
Wiki wrote:Bullying is the use of force, coercion, or threat, to abuse , aggressively dominate or intimidate

Are we done now?

Considering you're ignoring what I said, I suppose.

So, more important than arguing semantics, do you support transgender rights? Because while we can agree to disagree on exact definitions and the intent of other posters' words, this is something more important.

**Azreal13**

I support everybody's rights. I believe everybody has the right to live the life they choose free of negative consequences, as long as those choices don't negatively impact other people. I would not, for example, support a person's right to be a serial killer or a paedophile.

**ScarletRose**

I actually used disability as an example because I was thinking of my own LGS - one of my friends only has the use of one arm. He loves games but it does mean he plays a bit slower simply because it's harder to move things and roll handfuls of dice with only one hand.

If I saw someone mocking him and told them to quit it the response "he's the only one who can object, that's equality!" isn't an uplifting lesson on rights, it's an isolating tactic used to bully.

Since the conversation seems to have died down I'll leave it at that for anyone who wants to think about it.

**StormX**

Question - Why cant i identify as a frog, the question is if you either identify as a male or female, but as long as its asking what i identify as why cant i add a frog in?. I said i identify as a bull frog, and my message got deleted.

I understand it seems im trolling or being silly, but im being serious, why cant i identify as a frog.

You cant literately be a frog, and a female cant literally be a male, so why cant i say this? Both things are equally impossible so i don't get what the problem is.

EDIT - This thread is political, and is a hot button topic.

**insaniak**

Stormatious wrote:
Question - Why cant i identify as a frog, the question is if you either identify as a male or female, but as long as its asking what i identify as why cant i add a frog in?. I said i identify as a bull frog, and my message got deleted.

I understand it seems im trolling or being silly, but im being serious, why cant i identify as a frog.

You cant literately be a frog, and a female cant literally be a male, so why cant i say this? Both things are equally impossible so i don't get what the problem is.

EDIT - This thread is political, and is a hot button topic.

So maybe if your previous post was deleted as trolling, it might have been better to go away and educate yourself on the issue, rather than reposting it and expecting a forum devoted to toy soldiers to be the place to educate you about gender issues.

And it would be less of a 'hot button topic' if people refrained from posting ignorant nonsense. If you don't actually understand the issue, you're not equipped to discuss it.

**StormX**

Excuse me? Would you like to be more rude?.

Educate my self in what aspect, want to be more specific and asnwer why i am in wrong instead of your typical nonsense. I dont respect you or what you have to say Insaniak, so please dont talk to me.

And how can you allow this thread then if your going to say im talking about some thing that has nothing to do with this forum?. Genius.

**insaniak**

Stormatious wrote:
Excuse me? Would you like to be more rude?.

Educate my self in what aspect, want to be more specific and asnwer why i am in wrong instead of your typical nonsense. I dont respect you or what you have to say Insaniak, so please dont talk to me.

And how can you allow this thread then if your going to say im talking about some thing that has nothing to do with this forum?. Genius.

The thread is a discussion of the poll topic, which is about the ratio of male to female players.

It is not a discussion on the science and psychology behind gender identity. Interjecting with nonsense conflating being transgender with claiming that you are a frog does not in any way further the actual discussion here.

**StormX**

-removed-

**AdmiralHalsey**

ScarletRose wrote:
Azreal13 wrote:
JNAProductions wrote:
flamingkillamajig wrote:
Well personally I think yeah they should be treated well (though it depends more how nice said trans person or whoever is) but the whole gender fluid, non-binary and to an extent Trans stuff sounds more like a disorder. I have a disorder and that's ok. I have autism and am lucky enough to be fairly high functioning. Yes it sucks to have a disorder and you often get made fun of. We're all nerds and awkward though so I assume we've all been made fun of at one point. Some people are just jerks. That's life man. You can't let it get you down.

Because i'm nice however i'll go along with the gender people identify as in the choices. I only wish people could've been more respectful of my disorders but at least they understood medication would help.
Being trans is not a disorder. I'm sorry that people weren't understanding of your issues, but that's no reason to make light of someone else's struggles.

Except it is entirely normal to make light of people who are different. Comedians do it all the time. It is likely something that is very important in normalising minorities in the eyes of society at large and combating prejudice.

What is important is that it is done without malice and isn't hurtful, just like it is with literally everyone, right up to and including white, hetero, males. As someone who hasn't made comments and doesn't identify as transgender, you aren't placed to comment from either perspective, and therefore are getting offended on behalf of somebody else, which is a behaviour that's widespread online, and is what really has to stop.

Demographically speaking, I'm about as "normal" as it gets. White, male, straight. All the things. But I do also suffer with a life limiting chronic illness, which does mark me out as somehwhat of a minority. I cannot tell you how irritating it is when somebody, no matter how well meaning, steps in and makes decisions for me on my own capabilites without consulting me. Arguing on behalf of a group you aren't part of is much like this. Equality is fighting your own battles, not having people think they have to fight them for you.

Wow, I never thought I'd see such a wordy defense of bigotry.

You don't have to be disabled to see someone bullying a disabled person and say "that's wrong stop it." You don't have to be "upset" or "triggered" to act like a decent human being.

And oftentimes it is having a person/people in the community already standing up and saying something is wrong to get change going. If someone new to the LGS tells someone to stop being a jerk they may or may not get the reaction they want. If the top X-wing player, a guy who runs the best tourneys and is well known, tells someone to cool it they're much more likely to get traction. Even if the top player is a white guy and not part of the minority involved.

What is important is that it is done without malice and isn't hurtful

And that's why this whole thread went off the rails, because the whole "I identify as a helicopter' meme is intended to be hurtful and mock a struggle people go through.

I think it's important to distinquished between stepping in to defend someone being hurt or bullied, and stepping into an online debate to weigh in with your views about how some minority or other feels and why you have to save them.

The difference is between actively stepping into prevent hurt, and stepping into insert your opinions.

I've seen a lot of bullying in my life and it never ended because someone told the bully how they should be thinking.

**insaniak**

If we could all make an attempt to stick to the actual topic, that would be appreciated.

Again, this thread is not the place to discuss identity politics.

**Togusa**

insaniak wrote:
If we could all make an attempt to stick to the actual topic, that would be appreciated.

Again, this thread is not the place to discuss identity politics.

So (someone) deleted my post again, a post that was pretty tame and quite true!

You need to lock this thread.

**Marxist artist**

In my local group there is only maybe 2 regular female plAyers the rest are male. Probably 15+ males oh and Danny the dog but he doesn't participate as much as we would like.

**insaniak**

Togusa wrote:
insaniak wrote:
If we could all make an attempt to stick to the actual topic, that would be appreciated.

Again, this thread is not the place to discuss identity politics.

So (someone) deleted my post again, a post that was pretty tame and quite true!

You need to lock this thread.

Your post was removed because it was off-topic. Please refrain from making further off-topic posts complaing that your off-topic posts are being removed.

**BobtheInquisitor**

flamingkillamajig wrote:
Rather surprised there's been a surge of comments trying to make things more inclusive for girls in war-gaming. What somebody decides to enjoy should be their own choice rather than the choices of any internet group. Personally I think girl war-gamers tend to be less competitive than their male counterparts on average which might explain the lack of women in tournaments.

As far as the game goes there's a few girl painters with their own youtube channels though I haven't watched in forever. Will more female models help? Depends on each individual woman I think but usually girls I've seen play anything but sisters of battle but it may be due to ease of access and old models.

Of course I've known girls that like sexy women, yaoi or don't mind anime boob physics. I mean anime has female representation but groping is a common joke in anime yet that probably isn't enough to discourage women watching. I also agree with warhammer 40k getting more male players and usually with several exceptions at my local gw the female players are a girlfriend, wife, sister or mother and usually quits if the male she's attached to does.

I honestly think if you want to attract a lot of women you'd probably have to anime-ize 40k make a few of the primarchs in 30k effeminate men engaging in acts of love or "love" with other primarchs.

I'd also like to make a point the gw makes great strides for female gamers sometimes at the cost of alienating long time male players. Some years back there was one girl introduced to warhammer by a few dudes and she played but eventually seemed to give up and move on. So much effort was placed on her including getting quite the haul of new models at the Christmas exchanges we have and she still later left.

Keep in mind when she was still new and tried flirting with a dude till it ended up he was getting married and she went outside for a bit i found it funny that the store manager told me id get kicked out of the shop if i ever made her feel uncomfortable. The reason that was brought up was when she left I said "woah! She's cute!". Yes I know I should be flailed for thinking a woman is cute. I rarely talked to her since and every conversation with her became incredibly forced, neutered and uncomfortable for me because i didnt want to get a store ban. Oh and the average girl at said gw gets treated better by a significant margin than any of the men. But I guess we'll get into that data so maybe another time. In fact guys are far bigger jerks to each other at the gw so I should be talking about elitist jerks that ruin things in the store for everybody else. Hardcore players are more than just white guys here and honestly there are so few women I don't think many do competitive.

Just don't talk about people's appearances behind their backs? "Whoah, he's handsome" isn't really uncreepy. If you're going to talk about people in the shop, maybe stick to their gaming qualities?

My wife games, but she won't enter any FLGS again because too many of the patrons creep her out (by their words and behavior).

**Nurglitch**

Yeah, that "treated better by a significant margin than any of the men" isn't what it looks like. I think many heterosexual men would find being "treated better" by men as annoying as women find it.

**flamingkillamajig**

BobtheInquisitor wrote:

Just don't talk about people's appearances behind their backs? "Whoah, he's handsome" isn't really uncreepy. If you're going to talk about people in the shop, maybe stick to their gaming qualities?

My wife games, but she won't enter any FLGS again because too many of the patrons creep her out (by their words and behavior).

Not really. I'd actually find it flattering if women said that about me. Also what gaming qualities did she have since she was barely ever there up to that point.

I mean I don't know if I brought it up but she was somewhat flirting with a dude there that ended up having a fiancée and stopped when she found out. She also became a girlfriend of one gamer guy there and later married another (she split on good terms with the first).

Honestly I think this is all just different people with different opinions and if a guy saying a girl is cute to another guy is creepy then I don't really care about being that level of creepy. Besides I've had a girl give me her Steam name after only one visit at said game shop (she doesn't visit much) and another girl war-gamer on this very web site give me a picture of her when I was curious. I've also received certain intimate pics of a woman without asking for them. I never thought of that as "creepy" when said girl did that. In fact I've had girls say stuff to me I wanted to collect the evidence for just in case they end up being crazy and spiteful. I'm just rather scared these days as it pays to be careful rather than serving jail time for something you never did.

@nurglitch: For what it's worth i'd be more annoyed at not being treated as a gamer on equal footing and people being too nice to me. Of course I probably see this in a different light but still negative. People are willing to help out newbies more but at the same time there is an "old boy's club" mentality with "in" and "out" groups at my local game store. It's not all bad though. A lot of the "in" group people are jerks I'd rather not be around anyway.

**BobtheInquisitor**

This is getting beyond the scope of this thread, but here goes:

First, not everyone feels the same way, and it doesn't mean the other people are wrong. I saw a video of a guy who liked to have his nuts stomped on--does that mean he should assume that everyone feels the same way about having their nuts stomped? Just because you (and I) would love to hear compliments about our appearances doesn't mean everyone else does. In fact, it is well known that many people do not want to hear it if you think they are attractive. That, among many other reasons, is why it is considered rude. You don't have to feel it yourself; just respect it. People don't want to hear how hot you or I think they are. The guy who told you he would ban you--he did that because you crossed a line, not because he was unreasonable. You don't get it? So ask. Ask everyone. Learn more. It's always good to learn about what you don't understand rather than denying it or pushing back.

The golden rule is wrong: instead of "do unto others as you would have them do unto you" it should be "do unto others as they would want to be treated (within reason)". (Think about how Mr Stompy Balls might interpret the first differently from the second.)

If you are talking about someone because you think she can't hear you...maybe she can, or hear you quoted later...so you should talk like she definitely can hear you. I know from personal experience that a lot of people commenting on my appearance aren't as discrete as they think they are.

With whom she was flirting is her business and has no bearing on how you should treat her (unless it was with you). That is totally irrelevant to the game, and a faux pas to comment on. (No one likes a third party commenting on their 'game'.).

The stuff about different women behaving differently because they are different. Well, yeah. That's why you should not assume they would all react the same way to "flattery". Best just to avoid it altogether in a game store.

**Argive**

Marxist artist wrote:
In my local group there is only maybe 2 regular female plAyers the rest are male. Probably 15+ males oh and Danny the dog but he doesn't participate as much as we would like.

I think danny the dog is just misunderstood... 100% wants to play