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Norsca was fun to play for a bit, but my monster hunt quest bugged out and aborted itself on the first objective. This locked me out of all of them, which has apparently affected more people. So sadly I gave up on that campaign, now have to wait for CA to patch it.
On the Norsca playthrough itself, their infantry is really meant to be a glass cannon, which makes garrisons a bit on the weak side seeing as how Norsca doesn't have walls. So all Norsca settlement battles are just open map ones, which makes me consider all settlements a write-off when attacked by a full stack with slightly above average enemy troops. But overall their army is a blast to play with, although mammoths beat everything so far, amazing unit, but have to limit myself on them. The confederation mechanic is nice, but a bit exploit-y. What I did was park an army in the woods in ambush mode. Then declare war on a faction to lure the enemy faction leader away from its garrison (I could only afford 1 stack which couldn't really beat a garrison+full stack). Faction leader doesn't notice ambushing army, quickly swarm them with nothing but melee troops and voila, immediate way to confederate whole regions only having to beat one army. I united Norsca in about 20 turns this way, helped by the fact that Throgg absorbed some factions and blundered over into my ambush, giving me the whole eastern portion in one swoop.
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2017/08/13 16:17:43
Sorry for my spelling. I'm not a native speaker and a dyslexic.
1750 pts Blood Specters
2000 pts Imperial Fists
6000 pts Disciples of Fate
3500 pts Peridia Prime
2500 pts Prophets of Fate
Lizardmen 3000 points Tlaxcoatl Temple-City
Tomb Kings 1500 points Sekhra (RIP)
Norsca gets way better infatery once you get to the Marauder Champion units and the Skin wolfs whom just rips apart almost everything, throw in a Skin Wolf hero and watch the enemy army melt away. But yes, the first two tiers of infantery are weak as wet paper.
Trondheim wrote: Norsca gets way better infatery once you get to the Marauder Champion units and the Skin wolfs whom just rips apart almost everything, throw in a Skin Wolf hero and watch the enemy army melt away. But yes, the first two tiers of infantery are weak as wet paper.
Yeah Skin Wolves are really crazy, but I'm still undecided on the Marauder Champions, I use them as my frontline while the Wolves and War Mammoths quickly chop up the flanks and then mow down the center. But that happens so fast I can't really see how well they would do against their 'equivalents' 1 on 1. Maybe time for some custom battles. Still doesn't help the Norsca garrisons much though.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/08/13 17:07:50
Sorry for my spelling. I'm not a native speaker and a dyslexic.
1750 pts Blood Specters
2000 pts Imperial Fists
6000 pts Disciples of Fate
3500 pts Peridia Prime
2500 pts Prophets of Fate
Lizardmen 3000 points Tlaxcoatl Temple-City
Tomb Kings 1500 points Sekhra (RIP)
Trondheim wrote: Norsca gets way better infatery once you get to the Marauder Champion units and the Skin wolfs whom just rips apart almost everything, throw in a Skin Wolf hero and watch the enemy army melt away. But yes, the first two tiers of infantery are weak as wet paper.
Yeah Skin Wolves are really crazy, but I'm still undecided on the Marauder Champions, I use them as my frontline while the Wolves and War Mammoths quickly chop up the flanks and then mow down the center. But that happens so fast I can't really see how well they would do against their 'equivalents' 1 on 1. Maybe time for some custom battles. Still doesn't help the Norsca garrisons much though.
Well you really need the bonues from the lords to make the champions shine in my opinion. The Mammoths are just.... insane, once you get the the warshrine ones the game is more or less won. Or the armoured ones. But yea, do tell us how that goes
A quick one on one of Greatswords vs Champions (with great weapons) ended son close it was almost a tie, GS lost, but the Chieftain got involved and killed a few, it tilted the balance. However, Champions are Wirth 1100 pts vs the GS 950.
Trondheim wrote: Norsca gets way better infatery once you get to the Marauder Champion units and the Skin wolfs whom just rips apart almost everything, throw in a Skin Wolf hero and watch the enemy army melt away. But yes, the first two tiers of infantery are weak as wet paper.
Yeah Skin Wolves are really crazy, but I'm still undecided on the Marauder Champions, I use them as my frontline while the Wolves and War Mammoths quickly chop up the flanks and then mow down the center. But that happens so fast I can't really see how well they would do against their 'equivalents' 1 on 1. Maybe time for some custom battles. Still doesn't help the Norsca garrisons much though.
Well you really need the bonues from the lords to make the champions shine in my opinion. The Mammoths are just.... insane, once you get the the warshrine ones the game is more or less won. Or the armoured ones. But yea, do tell us how that goes
I have some time as my campaign for today is borked. Have to wait for a patch now, so might as well. Getting accurate tests is hard as unit abilities vary. I find that custom battles with a 'no lord' mod works best, as CA seems to tinker with unit stats based on MP, think VC regen cap or summons taking damage over time. So around the same gold cost should be more or less equivalent.
Champion units with shields+ armored/armored+armor piercing (great weapon variant) and the rage ability, giving increased melee attack+defence and leadership the longer they are in combat. Yet it takes quite a while to start with the rage ability, the leadership first rops because of losses and need time to climb back up, so if the unit or army is losing it will not increase over the the baseline. The melee attack and defence takes a while to kick in (close to a full minute), almost half the unit is dead by the time it does in my experience. They cost a 1000 or 1100 with great weapons. for the sake of brevity I won't note all their stats as its easy to look up, same for the others. AI counter charges in custom battles, so no advantage there. Percentages are give and take a few percent.
Against Bretonnian Foot Squires (700) both versions win which is a bit surprising, given that the Squires have armor piercing and anti-infantry. 60% of the unit dies in both cases though. Bretonnia is also the weakest infantry faction. Equal value of two versus three still lets them come out on top.
Wood Elves with Wildwood Rangers (1050), who have damage dealer and armor piercing. The shielded Champions lose by an inch, after they having lost 90% but also cut down almost 90% of the opposing unit, so they only had a low single digit loss difference over the entire battles. Great weapon variant does better, winning with 'only' 70% of the unit dead, can't imagine them surviving the walk into melee against such a missile heavy faction without shields though.
Beastmen with Bestigor Herd (1000), armored and armor piercing. The shielded version loses, losing 90% before breaking, leaving about 40% of the enemy unit. Great weapon variant wins with 50% left.
Vampire Count Grave Guard with great weapons (950), armored, armor piercing and anti infantry. Shields win with 50% left. Great weapons win too, also 50% left.
Empire Greatswords (950) armored, armor piercing and anti infantry. Shields lost, but Greatswords went below 10%. Great weapons win with 40% left.
Greenskins with Black Orcs (1100), armored and armor piercing. Shields win with 30% left. Great weapons same 30%.
Dwarf Hammerers (1200),damage dealer armored, and armor piercing. Shields lose with the Hammerers having 70% left. Great weapons lose, the Hammerers retain 40%.
Warriors of Chaos Chosen (1250), armored. The only remotely comparable Chosen unit in cost. Shields lose, Chosen have 90% left. Great weapons lose, Chosen having 50% left.
TL;DR You were right, both versions of Champions do pretty amazing (especially the great weapon variant) versus comparable infantry, even without a lord, although the rage mechanic is hardly useful beyond leadership. Only the super elite infantry of the Dwarfs and Chaos really reliably beat the great weapon Champions, which is not too surprising as it's their thing. I feel the unit size of a 100 (on largest unit size) really helps the great weapon variant and to a lesser extent the shield variant to go toe to toe and eek out a very bloody stalemate or wins against comparable units, because some 'elite' infantry such as Beastmen, Wood Elves and Greenskins only have 80 in theirs. Pretty cool, although it still doesn't help the garrison army that has to rely on the normal Marauders.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2017/08/13 20:39:56
Sorry for my spelling. I'm not a native speaker and a dyslexic.
1750 pts Blood Specters
2000 pts Imperial Fists
6000 pts Disciples of Fate
3500 pts Peridia Prime
2500 pts Prophets of Fate
Lizardmen 3000 points Tlaxcoatl Temple-City
Tomb Kings 1500 points Sekhra (RIP)
Ashiraya wrote: I and all my friends who I play campaign with really agree that Norsca is bonkers OP.
Doing a throgg+khazrak coop on legendary is fun though.
I don't have them, but I'm watching HeirofCarthage's play through, and yeah, they seem pretty ridiculous. He's just steam rolling everything he touches.
I think it's safe to say that things are not exactly to scale in that map. If nothing else, Ulthuan isn't supposed to be that big.
Plus they are going to cut it up for the combined campaign. Pretty sure the Southlands aren't positioned below Ulthuan like that either.
But all Old World factions are in if looking at the banners! Hopefully they are allowed to be unlocked with faction unlockers. The map goes far beyond what I expected. Not a fan of the faction name for the second Lizardmen faction though.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/08/14 17:04:31
Sorry for my spelling. I'm not a native speaker and a dyslexic.
1750 pts Blood Specters
2000 pts Imperial Fists
6000 pts Disciples of Fate
3500 pts Peridia Prime
2500 pts Prophets of Fate
Lizardmen 3000 points Tlaxcoatl Temple-City
Tomb Kings 1500 points Sekhra (RIP)
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/08/16 15:40:14
"Sometimes the only victory possible is to keep your opponent from winning." - The Emperor, from The Outcast Dead.
"Tell your gods we are coming for them, and that their realms will burn as ours did." -Thostos Bladestorm
Total War is spoiling me here. I wish 40k could get an awesome video game for once. Also making me want to shelve my current projects and start Khradron Overlords because I think I need a break from 40k. Partially from burn out on 40k and partially because I feel so inspired to paint fantasy models.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/08/16 16:13:52
Anyone else see what the other Legendary Lord would be?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/08/16 18:09:26
"Sometimes the only victory possible is to keep your opponent from winning." - The Emperor, from The Outcast Dead.
"Tell your gods we are coming for them, and that their realms will burn as ours did." -Thostos Bladestorm
Anyone else see what the other Legendary Lord would be?
It's Lord Skrolk of Clan Pestilens.
However Thanquol was spotted in the ingame cinematic, I'm betting he's going to be FreeLC when they do the combined map later on, where he will be positioned at Skavenblight.
The doomwheel looked cool. Abomination was a 'must have' in the tabletop game. You always needed at least one if not two. Course you then had the issue of having enough for your other rare options. That way you could handle flying daemon princes and that sort of thing. I know because i used to play skaven .
Skrolk makes the most sense for the New World map. That said thanquol needs to happen.
Maybe somewhere a while down the road with a few DLC packs we can also get tretch craventail. Skweel seems unlikely as does throt (not really warlords or seers), ikit claw is a possibility (maybe) and maybe we could get deathmaster snikch (assassin hero) though i find it unlikely as assassins should be heroes. Not sure if we can put the 'island of blood' skaven characters into this but it's a possibility given all the characters we've seen total war warhammer do.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/08/17 02:05:05
The embargo is lifted and Skaven videos are being put up. Here are two videos CA themselves have highlighted. Looks good so far, can't wait.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/08/17 17:04:58
Sorry for my spelling. I'm not a native speaker and a dyslexic.
1750 pts Blood Specters
2000 pts Imperial Fists
6000 pts Disciples of Fate
3500 pts Peridia Prime
2500 pts Prophets of Fate
Lizardmen 3000 points Tlaxcoatl Temple-City
Tomb Kings 1500 points Sekhra (RIP)
Yah, I saw on Youtube that the HE's get court intrigue. They can boost diplomatic relations or hurt them every so often. I can't wait to make the whole board hate all the DE's. I've already told my wife that she can see me two weeks later after this drops.
"Your society's broken, so who should we blame? Should we blame the rich, powerful people who caused it? No, lets blame the people with no power and no money and those immigrants who don't even have the vote. Yea, it must be their fething fault." - Iain M Banks
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"The language of modern British politics is meant to sound benign. But words do not mean what they seem to mean. 'Reform' actually means 'cut' or 'end'. 'Flexibility' really means 'exploit'. 'Prudence' really means 'don't invest'. And 'efficient'? That means whatever you want it to mean, usually 'cut'. All really mean 'keep wages low for the masses, taxes low for the rich, profits high for the corporations, and accept the decline in public services and amenities this will cause'." - Robin McAlpine from Common Weal
Tagony wrote: Yah, I saw on Youtube that the HE's get court intrigue. They can boost diplomatic relations or hurt them every so often. I can't wait to make the whole board hate all the DE's.
Truthfully I'm not a fan of this. The diplomacy system in 1 was LOLrandom enough without factions having the ability to manipulate it on purpose.
I just finished an empire playthrough and the amount of up/down was silly, with non aggression pacts, trade agreements and alliances changing every few turns.
The only thing that stabilized them at all was the End Times invasion, and that didn't last.
Yodhrin wrote: Watching TotalBiscuit's stream atm and I have to say, my favourite thing is now Lord Skrolk exclaiming "Suffer not the clean to live!" in battles
I caught some of that. I was surprised by the Hellpit Abomination being a city defender so early on.
The ruin search mechanic was interesting, and I thought some of the battle maps were better (particularly the settlements). The AI still leaves a lot to be desired. His plague catapults absolutely wrecked the units (and walls) of Itza, but they just gathered more units on the walls to be bombarded, rather than rushing down the absurdly over-extended catapults with cavalry and terradons.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/09/16 23:54:11
Creative Assembly has revealed that the combined Warhammer 1 and 2 campaign will be called "Mortal Empires". There's a nice, long blog post about it here -
I have a feeling I'll like the Mortal Empires campaign more than the Vortex campaign. I don't really like timers (even implied ones), and I like the greater variety, and sort of sandbox make-your-own-goals feel a conquest mode has.
Youtube and twitch streams are starting to wander out, and lionheartx10 has a co-op Dark Elf campaign up- Interesting, but I was oddly disappointed that there weren't any greenskin tribes on the northern continent, despite canonical being there. And it isn't like orcs, beastmen, dwarf and even empire forces aren't elsewhere on the map.
I still don't know which faction I'm going to start with. Skrolk brings extra corruption to grapple with (which is actually a pain for the skaven too), and Mazdamundi is apparently the 'easy' campaign. Not sure why Kroq-gar is hard, given his benefits: 10% upkeep discount for the entire army and an additional 50% upkeep discount for saurus and saurus cav.
Though it was inevitable (and narratively necessary), I still regret the two elf factions overlap so much, but that is GW's bugbear, not CA's.
Decisions, decisions. It may come down to Morathi or Queek.
The day before if you ask me, granted I am not able to play this game for a good few weeks due to being stranded in the middle of nowhere due to work for quite some time. But I will ask my significant other to download for me.
Tagony wrote: When do you guys think steam will unlock WHTW2 to start down loading?
Launch time is 3:30 AM Thursday for USA East Coast, so probably the night before.
Less than a week! Awmahgerd! Super excited, despite not really caring for any of the factions. Just love new lands to conquer and new ways to play.
"Sometimes the only victory possible is to keep your opponent from winning." - The Emperor, from The Outcast Dead.
"Tell your gods we are coming for them, and that their realms will burn as ours did." -Thostos Bladestorm