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LordofHats wrote: It would be a serious game changer if an entire market outright banned in-game transactions. Somehow though I doubt it'll get that far.
It doesn't need to - just removing the RNG element of any microtransaction purchases would curb the industry's worst excesses. For example, in Hearthstone you might still buy packs for in-game gold, but spending real money might get you 150 dust for crafting cards instead of 5 random cards of random rarities.
But the rarity of "high value items" is what makes Loot Boxes such a mad money maker. Take STO for example. The grand prize of each loot box is a Ship, usually a strong one, and it has a .01~.05% chance of dropping out of a box. That system has netted Cryptic far more money than ships directly sold to players. $100s of dollar to get the grand prize, vs. the $30 charge for more generic ships in the store. Remove the randomness and the whole "loot box" model falls apart, making way for just generic micro-transactions that will likely become less common because developers get less out of them.
Spot on, this is why the random purchases need to go away. I don't mind companies making money but gambling in disguise like this is just exploitative. Society has condoned this type of thing in other aspects, the lottery and casino's being two such cases but with so much of the target audience for video games being children this type of thing just hits my "Something is wrong" button hard because at least society has realized that gambling is generally exploitative and requires that you be an adult to throw your money away.
Loot boxes are also going to be investigated in my country, the news ran an article on it yesterday with Battlefront 2 being one of the primary suspects, along with DOTA (or whatever the big one is these days) and Overwatch.
BrookM wrote: Loot boxes are also going to be investigated in my country, the news ran an article on it yesterday with Battlefront 2 being one of the primary suspects, along with DOTA (or whatever the big one is these days) and Overwatch.
Belgium has already declared it a form of gambling.
BrookM wrote: Loot boxes are also going to be investigated in my country, the news ran an article on it yesterday with Battlefront 2 being one of the primary suspects, along with DOTA (or whatever the big one is these days) and Overwatch.
Belgium has already declared it a form of gambling.
Britain has said it's not. So going to be a lot of back and forth on this I'd say.
To be more precise, the UK Gambling authority have said that it does not meet the current legal definition of gambling. Basically they're kicking the ball to Parliament and it's going to require legislative changes to update the outdated definitions of gambling.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2017/11/28 20:22:21
I love the star-fighter assault mode. Galactic assault is just too quick twitch for me. Time to kill is too low for me to even begin developing skills. I basically just die anytime I see an enemy. In a starfighter I am much better though and though I sucked at first I've started to top my teams on a regular basis. It is a blast too. Heros are good fun but not to out of hand. I kill heros with standard tie fighters all the time because they can't shake me with all that agility and a full barrage really hurts if you can land it but when you play them they feel powerful at the same time.
The level grind to get cards seems to be about right. I'd like to play this game for at least 6 months and seeing how I have all 3 basic classes to lvl 15 with my prefered setups - plus my 2 favorite heros well on their way to lvl 15. I don't really see a problem with it. OFC I missed the first few days of the money crate fiasco. Game seems perfectly legit to me.
If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder
EA's day of reckoning is here after 'Star Wars' game uproar, $3 billion in stock value wiped out
Leading gaming YouTube personalities believe EA will be forced to change its practices after the "Star Wars Battlefront II" micro-transaction controversy.
"After the communal and political backlash EA received over Battlefront II, the industry at large is going to have to walk back its loot box plans a little," Jim Sterling writes in an email.
Tae Kim | @firstadopter
Published 4 Hours Ago Updated 18 Mins Ago CNBC.com
Electronic Arts' shareholders are running for the hills this month and for good reason.
The company's profitable business model is now at risk after angry gamers revolted over its aggressive in-game moneymaking strategy in "Star Wars Battlefront II."
EA's stock is down 8.5 percent month to date through Tuesday compared with the S&P 500's 2 percent gain, wiping out $3.1 billion of shareholder value. Its competitors Take-Two and Activision Blizzard shares are up 5 percent and 0.7 percent respectively during the same time period.
After EA gave a December quarter sales forecast slightly below Wall Street estimates on Oct. 31, some analysts suspected it was due to the "Stars Wars" title. The shares fell 4 percent the following day.
Then an uproar began after details about the game's character progression were revealed, a system so tedious players are resorting to rubber bands on controllers to acquire credits to level up.
The gaming community flooded social media and Reddit with thousands of negative posts, saying EA is unfairly compelling consumers to spend more money through micro-transactions for content that should be part of the initial $60 game price.
The controversy seems to be hurting the sales of the game, which was officially released on Nov. 17.
First week U.K. physical game sales of "Star Wars Battlefront II" declined 61 percent compared with "Star Wars Battlefront" from two years ago, according to GfK ChartTrack data. And the game is still not on the top 100 list of Amazon's best-selling video games year to date as of Tuesday.
One Wall Street analyst is also not impressed from his checks during the recent crucial holiday weekend.
"We were underwhelmed by sell-through for Star Wars: Battlefront II (EA) over the Black Friday weekend, which follows a controversial launch for the game," Stifel analyst Drew Crum wrote in a note to clients Sunday.
The game's weak sales are a secondary issue for Electronic Arts. The viability of its profitable micro-transaction strategy is now in question going forward.
Politicians vowed to take action to protect underage kids from the game's monetization practices. One Wall Street analyst is even calling for the industry to self-regulate before the government gets involved.
"Battlefront II is the pointy tip of the iceberg. … The biggest recent controversy has centered around EA's Star Wars Battlefront II, where early evidence suggests player anger over a mishandled loot box economy may in fact be impacting initial sales," Cowen's Doug Creutz wrote in a note to clients Monday. "We think the time has come for the industry to collectively establish a set of standards for MTX implementation, both to repair damaged player perceptions and avoid the threat of regulation."
However, with the increasing spotlight from the media and gaming community on the issue, Electronic Arts will likely be forced to dial back its extreme monetization strategies across its franchises, hurting future profitability.
EA chief financial officer Blake Jorgensen told investors in February its "Ultimate Team" sports micro-transactions business generated $800 million in high-profit margin sales for the company during the previous year. He added EA intended to extend a "similar mechanic" to its other franchises such as "Battlefield" and "Battlefront."
Now that whole strategy is at risk.
Leading gaming YouTube personalities believe EA will be forced to change its practices after the "Star Wars Battlefront II" micro-transaction controversy.
"After the communal and political backlash EA received over Battlefront II, the industry at large is going to have to walk back its loot box plans a little," Jim Sterling wrote in an email.
Joe Vargas of the AngryJoeShow, who has 2.8 million subscribers for his channel, agreed EA will be forced to permanently change its ways.
"I think gamers have drawn a line in the sand at pay to win loot boxes being tied directly to player progression in Triple AAA games. If EA continues that exact type of practice that was initially in Battlefront II then yes I'm sure it would backfire once again," he wrote in an email. "I don't think they will ever completely remove their loot box systems … instead the best course of action would be to keep it to cosmetic and bonus pieces for only the games where it makes sense instead of this recently insulting shotgun cash grab approach of stuffing ALL their major titles with it. The market will only handle so much."
Electronic Arts shares are still up 39 percent year to date through Tuesday in anticipation of future profits stream from micro-transactions.
Investors are likely to get disappointed under the new industry environment.
And yet, here you are gloating about this while having also whined about EA cancelling games because of reactionary nonsense like this.
Oh well. I enjoyed Battlefront II. All this hyperbolic trash has done is ensure that these Youtube personalities remain on my list of people whose opinion is worthless trash.
"Pay to Win" lootboxes...lol yeah, okay there guy.
Kanluwen wrote: And yet, here you are gloating about this while having also whined about EA cancelling games because of reactionary nonsense like this.
Oh well. I enjoyed Battlefront II. All this hyperbolic trash has done is ensure that these Youtube personalities remain on my list of people whose opinion is worthless trash.
"Pay to Win" lootboxes...lol yeah, okay there guy.
I think it was just time where something had to give, the whole microtransation thing in the whole industry is starting to get outta hand and I think this one blew up just because it's star wars and everyone wants to be luke or vader, and probably 80% of the complaints where just people on the internet jumping in because everyone else was. It's kinda a shame the sales are so down, it seemed like a well done game, it looks great and you can tell lots of talented people worked hard on it. They beta was fun to play and I still plan to pick it up some time.
I'm fine with paying for cosmetic stuff (because I won't pay for that and don't care if someone else does) but in this game I don't think that works as much, I mean there's only so many stormtrooper looks you can have.
I'm kinda worried if the companies can't rake in the dough with micro transactions they will start raising the base prices and DLCs. I'll drop $80-90 for a game + season pass if I really like the game, but that's really as high as I wanna go since I usually buy like 1 game per month on top of my addiction to army men. If the prices go up much more it'll probably mean I buy less and get a lot more selective.
That's quite the kicking EA has taken, hopefully lessons will have been learned
Yep the price of games might go up, but that's been long overdue, part of this whole mess is due to games trying to stick to the £40/$60 box price and then having to piddle about with DLC/passes/boxes, a full and complete $80 game might seem like a hike but it will at least be honest(ish)
Might also result in leaner operating but sadly it'll be the coding drones that'll feel the brunt of that
"AND YET YOU ACT AS IF THERE IS SOME IDEAL ORDER IN THE WORLD, AS IF THERE IS SOME...SOME RIGHTNESS IN THE UNIVERSE BY WHICH IT MAY BE JUDGED."
Turnip Jedi wrote: That's quite the kicking EA has taken, hopefully lessons will have been learned
Yep the price of games might go up, but that's been long overdue, part of this whole mess is due to games trying to stick to the £40/$60 box price and then having to piddle about with DLC/passes/boxes, a full and complete $80 game might seem like a hike but it will at least be honest(ish)
Might also result in leaner operating but sadly it'll be the coding drones that'll feel the brunt of that
That's what they will claim, but don't be fooled. It is all greed and profit. Don't let someone tell you that they need the scummy microtransactions to stay afloat.
Edit:
EA has now tried to explain its loot boxes as them wanting to "protect the canon" of Star Wars.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/11/29 16:40:43
Turnip Jedi wrote: That's quite the kicking EA has taken, hopefully lessons will have been learned
Yep the price of games might go up, but that's been long overdue, part of this whole mess is due to games trying to stick to the £40/$60 box price and then having to piddle about with DLC/passes/boxes, a full and complete $80 game might seem like a hike but it will at least be honest(ish)
Might also result in leaner operating but sadly it'll be the coding drones that'll feel the brunt of that
That's what they will claim, but don't be fooled. It is all greed and profit. Don't let someone tell you that they need the scummy microtransactions to stay afloat.
It's not a question of "staying afloat". I don't think I've ever once seen EA or any of its companies claim that microtransactions were necessary to "stay afloat". Microtransactions are what finance free MP stuff to prevent fragmentation of player-base.
EA has done it for four games prior to this. It's how they know the model works.
Titanfall 2 had free content(a new Titan, new maps, new executions, and new guns) every quarter since its release. Christ, they even added a horde mode called "Frontier Defense" that costs nothing to get into. The paid content was strictly cosmetic on that end, at least at launch. They had sets of camos for your pilot, weapons, and Titans. They had what was called "Prime" Titans(alternate skins and voices for the AI on your Titan--it was based off the concept art that was otherwise unused) that were something like $4.99 per. And most recently they added the "Warpaint" and "Aegis" skins for your weapons and Titans respectively. Warpaint was the result of some of the artists going nuts and making some interesting weapon skins that have an in-game effect called "Squad Leader"(upon completion of a match, win or lose, there's a 30% chance for you to grant your whole team an XP booster that they can use in another match) that doesn't matter whether the weapon skin is equipped or not. "Aegis" skins were the result of some of the artists wanting to make some silly skins for the Titans and they just so happened to tie in well with the Frontier Defense mode and do the same thing as the Warpaint(30% chance for you to grant your whole team an XP booster).
Mass Effect 3 and Mass Effect Andromeda both had free content drops on the multiplayer side of things with the option(the option) to pay for item boxes that were random. Dragon Age: Inquisition had the same mechanic but their MP was just...bad. It was laggy and they made it annoying to get characters(you had to 'craft' the character using materials/patterns from missions and it was just...bleh. I played it for a month and then gave up) but there were no concerns there about people "paying to win".
And now we go to Battlefront II. They planned on keeping DLC free from the get-go(even before the microtransactions were announced the free DLC was) and anyone who didn't expect to see lootboxes come into play was a fool. With that part said, it's hysterical how many people ignore three factors:
1) Every day you login? You get a loot box. It's called the "Daily Login Crate" and it gives you a small amount of credits(ranging from 5 to 40) and a small amount of crafting materials (ranging again from 5 to 40--which I might add, 40 is how much one would need to craft a card that they did not have yet at its lowest power) and a random card that can be an emote, skill, or victory pose.
2) There is no real way to "shortcut" via lootboxes. Buying lootboxes for the potential credit rewards inside is moronic at best. I know that I'm personally averaging out roughly 175 to 250 credits per match of Galactic Assault when I'm getting dropped into a match halfway through and playing awfully.
3) Challenges. The challenges have credit, Crates, and premium currency payouts. The premium currency payouts, once completed, will be enough to buy a single Trooper Crates it looks like. The Crates that you obtain by completing the challenges, while one-time only, are tied to specific skills. Complete the "Stay True" Challenge for the Specialist's Infiltration ability, for example, and you get a Crate that will give you one of the upgraded versions of Infiltration(saving you having to drop 40 crafting material on the skill to unlock it).
The free DLC we're getting in December isn't just MP stuff though. We're getting a campaign DLC drop for free as well.
Not sure you want to be using Andromeda as an example of the good of EA, considering the state of the game. As well as the fate of its single player DLC.
curran12 wrote: Not sure you want to be using Andromeda as an example of the good of EA, considering the state of the game. As well as the fate of its single player DLC.
Yarp a higher box price wont prevent shenanigans but given the current furore if they up prices and persist in outright greed a bubble or two may well pop
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/11/29 17:47:19
"AND YET YOU ACT AS IF THERE IS SOME IDEAL ORDER IN THE WORLD, AS IF THERE IS SOME...SOME RIGHTNESS IN THE UNIVERSE BY WHICH IT MAY BE JUDGED."
With EA pushing it this far the bubble may be close to bursting already, especially with instances around the world looking into this sort of thing now, which may somewhere down the line result in some guidelines or the like to keep things more in check.
curran12 wrote: Not sure you want to be using Andromeda as an example of the good of EA, considering the state of the game.
Actually I absolutely do. It's another game that got screwed because of the nonsensical whining from people like yourself. There were people who picked and picked and picked at small things(including microtransactions for the multiplayer...which is PvE only so who gives a feth?) and streamers blowing small things like animation glitches out of proportion.
We see this every time EA releases a game that isn't a sports game. There's people who go out of their way to attack the game, people who like it, and people who worked on it.
As well as the fate of its single player DLC.
Oh you mean how the fate is that instead of being released as playable content because of negative feedback(a significant chunk of which comes from people who only do as Shadow Captain talks about earlier, "just watch the cutscenes on YouTube") from people who thought the game didn't deserve to exist or that it was some kind of "affront" to the Mass Effect brand, it's being done up as a novel?
Automatically Appended Next Post:
BrookM wrote: With EA pushing it this far the bubble may be close to bursting already, especially with instances around the world looking into this sort of thing now, which may somewhere down the line result in some guidelines or the like to keep things more in check.
So, thanks EA!
I'll wait with bated breath for Activision/Blizzard to get as much crap as EA's been getting over this nonsense.
It won't happen though. EA's been voted "worst company" how many years now? From people who have literally no knowledge of the company or its inner workings.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/11/29 18:07:08
Actually I absolutely do. It's another game that got screwed because of the nonsensical whining from people like yourself.
No, the game got screwed over because EA gave it to an inexperienced team and made them rush it out. Face it, the game is atrocious quality.
We see this every time EA releases a game that isn't a sports game. There's people who go out of their way to attack the game, people who like it, and people who worked on it.
Thats because the games they release are getting worse with every Launch.
Oh you mean how the fate is that instead of being released as playable content because of negative feedback(a significant chunk of which comes from people who only do as Shadow Captain talks about earlier, "just watch the cutscenes on YouTube") from people who thought the game didn't deserve to exist or that it was some kind of "affront" to the Mass Effect brand, it's being done up as a novel?
At this point, I'd actually prefer that EA continues the Mass Effect series with just Novels and Comics. I don't buy a game when that game is gak. I don't need to play it, I do plenty of research to inform my decision. I watch gameplay footage, I read reviews. I'll gladly take the word of TotalBiscuit, Jim Sterling or Yong Yea over a rabid fanboy who refuses to acknowledge the glaring flaws in his favourite games.
Your enduring loyalty to a notoriously greedy corporation is adorable but rather weird and disturbing. Why are you taking this personally? Why do you care so much?
I'll wait with bated breath for Activision/Blizzard to get as much crap as EA's been getting over this nonsense.
It won't happen though. EA's been voted "worst company" how many years now? From people who have literally no knowledge of the company or its inner workings.
You must have been living under a rock for the past month. Activision has been getting plenty of flak over their underhanded and covert XP Throttling in Destiny, their patent for a Matchmaking system that deliberately pairs newer players with experienced players with more powerful MTX weapons to encourage the newbs to buy MTX, and the spectator mode in COD WW2 that makes a public spectacle out of opening Loot Boxes.
Your perception that Activision is not getting crap for their own sins is little more than cognitive bias.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2017/11/29 18:18:54
Kanluwen wrote: There were people who picked and picked and picked at small things(including microtransactions for the multiplayer...which is PvE only so who gives a feth?) and streamers blowing small things like animation glitches out of proportion.
Actually I absolutely do. It's another game that got screwed because of the nonsensical whining from people like yourself.
No, the game got screwed over because EA gave it to an inexperienced team and made them rush it out. Face it, the game is atrocious quality.
It had issues but it really wasn't as bad as people thought. I went into it after hearing everyone's complaints (and still having the bad taste of ME3 in my mouth) and I found the game quite enjoyable if flawed.
We see this every time EA releases a game that isn't a sports game. There's people who go out of their way to attack the game, people who like it, and people who worked on it.
Thats because the games they release are getting worse with every Launch.
A problem common to lots of big developers.
Oh you mean how the fate is that instead of being released as playable content because of negative feedback(a significant chunk of which comes from people who only do as Shadow Captain talks about earlier, "just watch the cutscenes on YouTube") from people who thought the game didn't deserve to exist or that it was some kind of "affront" to the Mass Effect brand, it's being done up as a novel?
At this point, I'd actually prefer that EA continues the Mass Effect series with just Novels and Comics. I don't buy a game when that game is gak. I don't need to play it, I do plenty of research to inform my decision. I watch gameplay footage, I read reviews. I'll gladly take the word of TotalBiscuit, Jim Sterling or Yong Yea over a rabid fanboy who refuses to acknowledge the glaring flaws in his favourite games.
Absolutely not a fanboy, nor is ME:A a favorite game of mine, but it certainly wasn't gak, flawed yes, gak no. I would have very much liked to have been able to play out more of it's story. Then for BFII, it too is a fun yet ultimately flawed game. I've been fortunate not to experience much in the way of the lag issues or what have you, and have had little issue dealing with upgraded people when I am not as upgraded. My main issue with the game is the Campaign not being what they sold it too me as.
Your enduring loyalty to a notoriously greedy corporation is adorable but rather weird and disturbing. Why are you taking this personally? Why do you care so much?
Not Kan obviously, but maybe he finds your blind and dogged continuing attacks just as weird and disturbing. As well as his own way of encouraging you to think for yourself and try something out rather than blindly adhering to the opinions of others?
I'll wait with bated breath for Activision/Blizzard to get as much crap as EA's been getting over this nonsense.
It won't happen though. EA's been voted "worst company" how many years now? From people who have literally no knowledge of the company or its inner workings.
You must have been living under a rock for the past month. Activision has been getting plenty of flak over their underhanded and covert XP Throttling in Destiny, their patent for a Matchmaking system that deliberately pairs newer players with experienced players with more powerful MTX weapons to encourage the newbs to buy MTX, and the spectator mode in COD WW2 that makes a public spectacle out of opening Loot Boxes.
Your perception that Activision is not getting crap for their own sins is little more than cognitive bias.
Except EA is getting disproportionately more attention over their sins vs Activision.
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2017/11/29 18:53:51
Kanluwen wrote: There were people who picked and picked and picked at small things(including microtransactions for the multiplayer...which is PvE only so who gives a feth?) and streamers blowing small things like animation glitches out of proportion.
Everyone who buys a game like Battlefront should be on an even playing field. One player
Spoiler:
should not get 100% damage reduction during Rocket Barrage while somebody else only gets 50% damage reduction during Rocket Barrage
just because the first player spent more money.
The problem with this idea is that you don't know one person spent more money or just has played longer/gotten lucky with lootboxes. The way these cards work now is that the more you've played the character and the more you've played in general, the more you're able to craft in regards to upgrades.
For example on the retail release(the screencap you provided is from the Beta build--in case you didn't notice), that card is still a Common one but grants 8/10/12/15% damage reduction instead of the numbers there. You can craft it at any time and since Boba Fett is one of the starter characters that you don't have to actually unlock with credits, he's one that isn't bad to put some upgrades into since you can also go into "Heroes v. Villains" mode and probably get to play as him.
But if you want to craft the upgrades for the card instead of getting them from lootboxes? You're looking at requiring card level 5 on Boba Fett(they've made it so that characters/classes/vehicles are "leveled" based on the number of star cards you own for that specific bit...5 cards on a character="character level 5") and player level 10(gained from actually playing the game) along with 80 crafting material to go from 8% to 10%. The next step up in upgrades each time requires an additional 5 rank, 5 levels, and 40 crafting material.
That was one of the balances they did based on beta feedback. That and y'know, they realized that Boba Fett having 100% damage reduction while doing that was nuts.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/11/29 18:57:41
curran12 wrote: That's what they will claim, but don't be fooled. It is all greed and profit. Don't let someone tell you that they need the scummy microtransactions to stay afloat.
To be fair, consider that games have stayed the same box price since I was a kid. They haven't gone up in price in nearly 20 years, which doesn't remotely track with inflation or the rising cost of development since the 90s. So it's not really a lie. Fearful that a price hike would negatively impact sales, the industry instead developed the DLC/Season Pass/Microtransaction model, where they make the game and then make supplemental content to maximize profit.
Of course, cynically, a price hike is unlikely to reverse course on the current mode because these companies are greedy and gamers are stupid twits who will buy almost anything (and then complain about it). However I think that it's important to see how the market itself is partly responsible for the model we have coming to be.
curran12 wrote: That's what they will claim, but don't be fooled. It is all greed and profit. Don't let someone tell you that they need the scummy microtransactions to stay afloat.
To be fair, consider that games have stayed the same box price since I was a kid. They haven't gone up in price in nearly 20 years, which doesn't remotely track with inflation or the rising cost of development since the 90s. So it's not really a lie. Fearful that a price hike would negatively impact sales, the industry instead developed the DLC/Season Pass/Microtransaction model, where they make the game and then make supplemental content to maximize profit.
Of course, cynically, a price hike is unlikely to reverse course on the current mode because these companies are greedy and gamers are stupid twits who will buy almost anything (and then complain about it). However I think that it's important to see how the market itself is partly responsible for the model we have coming to be.
If that were true, then how come disabling microtransactions will have "no material impact on projected earnings"?
Haven't played the full game
should not get 100% damage reduction during Rocket Barrage while somebody else only gets 50% damage reduction during Rocket Barrage