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Here's a thing - as Summoning will be using a budget set aside by not spending points on army selection, it seems likely we'll have the option to bring in units that are more than the bare minimum size plus command group? Four Bloodcrushers to decisively smash a Tactical Squad on an objective, six Flamers to really torch something, a dozen Screamers to rip up a Land Raider... and so on.

I suspect there'll be an element here of multiple list building, and also of jigsaw lists - pack in your figure case a bunch of Daemon units in numbers making them worth, say, 120pts, with a 240pt Summoning budget.

Well if it just copies AoS' summoning it'll say how many you get in the unit, but you'll likely end up with the base unit possibly with upgrades but likely not more models.

With the new Death Guard faction focus showcasing just how tough these bastards are now, I am super excited to see just how murderous World Eaters are. Thousand Sons are masters of magic, Emps Children are fast and strike first, what will the blood god get? Tons of attacks? Murderous Strike like mad? Charge 3D6? Actually good chain axes?

I am excite.

 andysonic1 wrote:
With the new Death Guard faction focus showcasing just how tough these bastards are now, I am super excited to see just how murderous World Eaters are. Thousand Sons are masters of magic, Emps Children are fast and strike first, what will the blood god get? Tons of attacks? Murderous Strike like mad? Charge 3D6? Actually good chain axes?

I am excite.

They'll probably get -2 rending chainaxes (based on estimated AP-rending conversion), rerolls to hit in melee (based on Death Guard getting something similar) and a not insignificant amount of attacks (their predisposition for melee). I'd expect them to still want some kind of delivery mechanism.

 gnome_idea_what wrote:

 andysonic1 wrote:
With the new Death Guard faction focus showcasing just how tough these bastards are now, I am super excited to see just how murderous World Eaters are. Thousand Sons are masters of magic, Emps Children are fast and strike first, what will the blood god get? Tons of attacks? Murderous Strike like mad? Charge 3D6? Actually good chain axes?

I am excite.

They'll probably get -2 rending chainaxes (based on estimated AP-rending conversion), rerolls to hit in melee (based on Death Guard getting something similar) and a not insignificant amount of attacks (their predisposition for melee). I'd expect them to still want some kind of delivery mechanism.

Seeing as World Eaters in Traitor Legions preferred to hoof it rather than ride a Rhino, I think we'll see something similar in their 8th rules. Maybe they get to keep the pre-game free move.

Do you guys think there are going to be individual codexes released for Death Guard and Thousand Sons or they will all just be in the Chaos Marine book?

 TheLumberJack wrote:
Do you guys think there are going to be individual codexes released for Death Guard and Thousand Sons or they will all just be in the Chaos Marine book?

Right now? One book. In the future? Multiple books.

So the Imperial I book (about space marines) lists the generic army, and then six specific variants. Anyone wondering how they will break up our book? Are you hoping for them to cram in something specific?

Since they said there will be future codex equivalents I wonder if the cult marines will be included, or if they will be expansions? I am also curious about other legions, Iron Warriors specifically.

I also super want to see more Dark Mechanicum and Renegade Knights.

 Groslon wrote:
So the Imperial I book (about space marines) lists the generic army, and then six specific variants. Anyone wondering how they will break up our book? Are you hoping for them to cram in something specific?

Since they said there will be future codex equivalents I wonder if the cult marines will be included, or if they will be expansions? I am also curious about other legions, Iron Warriors specifically.

I also super want to see more Dark Mechanicum and Renegade Knights.

I suspect chaos will be smallish, but we do know Legion rules will be a thing.

I wonder how they will individualize legions. I want my Iron Warriors to be masters of siege warfare, or Black Legion to have some sort of perk from having all the different types, etc. something to differentiate a legion from your run of the mill chaos renegades.

Wayniac wrote:
I wonder how they will individualize legions. I want my Iron Warriors to be masters of siege warfare, or Black Legion to have some sort of perk from having all the different types, etc. something to differentiate a legion from your run of the mill chaos renegades.

my worries about masters of seige warfare is that it could turn out useless in nine out of ten games. still if Iron warriors mearly get some stratagems that allow them to take out frotifications easier that could be good

Wayniac wrote:
I wonder how they will individualize legions. I want my Iron Warriors to be masters of siege warfare, or Black Legion to have some sort of perk from having all the different types, etc. something to differentiate a legion from your run of the mill chaos renegades.

Some Legion-specific stratagems and a few special force org charts would make me feel good. That would really push the "build your army this way and get cool tricks" thing that pulls the background into play.

I hope that whatever Emperor's Children get their theme doesn't come down to just "strike first!"

At this point it's kind of iconic, but it always struck me as extremely lazy for their bonus to just be +1 initiative. "Perfection" is an abstract concept but there's gotta be a more creative mechanic to represent it in combat other then just "your dudes strike first".

 Groslon wrote:

Wayniac wrote:
I wonder how they will individualize legions. I want my Iron Warriors to be masters of siege warfare, or Black Legion to have some sort of perk from having all the different types, etc. something to differentiate a legion from your run of the mill chaos renegades.

Some Legion-specific stratagems and a few special force org charts would make me feel good. That would really push the "build your army this way and get cool tricks" thing that pulls the background into play.

So you mean...like a Decurion-equivalent?

 MagicJuggler wrote:

 Groslon wrote:

Wayniac wrote:
I wonder how they will individualize legions. I want my Iron Warriors to be masters of siege warfare, or Black Legion to have some sort of perk from having all the different types, etc. something to differentiate a legion from your run of the mill chaos renegades.

Some Legion-specific stratagems and a few special force org charts would make me feel good. That would really push the "build your army this way and get cool tricks" thing that pulls the background into play.

So you mean...like a Decurion-equivalent?

Come on, they won't be gone for good.

Not only have GW already stated that army books will have their own special FOC's, but we've already seen one in the Death Guard FOC.

In 5th ed IIRC that plus 1 initiative, with some lucky dice rolls, let a squad of noisemarines beat the living feth out of a squad of terminators geared for assault as opposed to powerfists.

Glum face opponent.

 BlaxicanX wrote:
Not only have GW already stated that army books will have their own special FOC's, but we've already seen one in the Death Guard FOC.

Where was the DG FOC? I must have missed that.

 BlaxicanX wrote:
I hope that whatever Emperor's Children get their theme doesn't come down to just "strike first!"

At this point it's kind of iconic, but it always struck me as extremely lazy for their bonus to just be +1 initiative. "Perfection" is an abstract concept but there's gotta be a more creative mechanic to represent it in combat other then just "your dudes strike first".

Honestly I've never been satisfied with how Slaanesh stuff works on the tabletop. Most of the time it comes down to "fast glass cannons with high initiative (or dudes with sonic weapons)," which always seemed a little bland. I hope that Emperor's Children get something interesting for their gimmick.

Geez, with the new captain profile you have to wonder what kind of monster a chaos lord can become.

They probably won't b getting a force multiplier effect though. That's not really their thing, I'm guessing that role goes to the dark apostle. Hopefully not just mirror of the chaplains....and this time they better come with a freaking bike or mount at the very least -_-

This is some weird armour though. Seem to be basically a loyalist mark of nurgle if the wounds are standard for a captain.
Very boring profile though, there is literally no choice at all except for the chapter if you count that.
Hope our lords won't get the same treatment, or worse, one specific pre-built lord for termi armour etc.

 Roknar wrote:
Geez, with the new captain profile you have to wonder what kind of monster a chaos lord can become.

Spoiler:

[img]

They probably won't b getting a force multiplier effect though. That's not really their thing, I'm guessing that role goes to the dark apostle. Hopefully not just mirror of the chaplains....and this time they better come with a freaking bike or mount at the very least -_-

This is some weird armour though. Seem to be basically a loyalist mark of nurgle if the wounds are standard for a captain.
Very boring profile though, there is literally no choice at all except for the chapter if you count that.
Hope our lords won't get the same treatment, or worse, one specific pre-built lord for termi armour etc.

That's the Primaris captain though isn't it? Regular captains might get different stats.

Yea, but csm are supposed to be stepping up their game. At least as far as cult marines are concerned. Model wise they're already the same size pretty much. Just look at that plaguelord.

 Roknar wrote:
Yea, but csm are supposed to be stepping up their game. At least as far as cult marines are concerned. Model wise they're already the same size pretty much. Just look at that plaguelord.

But will that be for base csm and base lords or just the Primaris equivilent?

 BlaxicanX wrote:
Not only have GW already stated that army books will have their own special FOC's, but we've already seen one in the Death Guard FOC.

Are you talking about the death guard faction focus?

It specifically references a death guard detachment having plague marines count as troops, going on to point out it makes it easier to fill out a battalion. Meaning that specific factions have special bonuses for detachments made up of just their faction, not that they have entirely different FOC.

If I missed something please share.

http://natfka.blogspot.com/2017/05/death-guard-and-ultramarinesnow-thats.html

not sure how to code pictures, but theres an illustration of the Ultras vs Death guard that show an itty bitty Mortarion, and some Carnifex sized Beasts of Nurgle lookin guys that look like one of the Teaser Rumor pictures GW released.

On a similar note, the leaked rules confirms that salvo weapons are gone, which should make noise marines a lot more useful. So that should be nice.

Are those, Xiphon pattern interceptors in the background?
Also, what are those nurgle triceratops in the bottom left?

 Nightlord1987 wrote:
http://natfka.blogspot.com/2017/05/death-guard-and-ultramarinesnow-thats.html

not sure how to code pictures, but theres an illustration of the Ultras vs Death guard that show an itty bitty Mortarion, and some Carnifex sized Beasts of Nurgle lookin guys that look like one of the Teaser Rumor pictures GW released.

Just use [ img ][ /img ],




Automatically Appended Next Post:
No one has said anything about the big round Nurgle Daemons on the right, new GUO?

There probably won't be Legion specific FoC's. There's no need for them really. The generic FoC's pretty much cover everything already, and I suspect GW are moving away from the whole "super special" FoC/Decurion mentality. 90% of armies will work in the vanilla FoC's and they can bring in what they need for specific factions or scenario's. I think GW want's us to focus on picking units for our armies, not picking FoC's/detachments. With chaos you can pick any of the new FoC's with a bunch of troops slots and fill them with cultists, marines or cult troops if you have a cult faction, all with the same FoC.

Legions will probably have a couple special rules each, AL will certainly get their infiltrating troops rule, and hopefully the endless cultists rule again, but these will be faction rules you get for a FoC that is entirely made of AL units. Of course there'll be a restriction (no marks or demons can be taken) but that's as much as you need for faction rules, with the units themselves taking centre stage rather than the detachment. Hopefully there'll be some interesting wargear and maybe psychic powers (legion depending) but you don't need much more than that to give the legions their own character. The biggest difference between an AL and an IW legion on the table will be what units you take rather than what formations you take and what special rules you get.

Stacking special rules is what was at the core of 7th problems, GW is almost certainly going to bee rolling them back and dishing them out sparingly. So you'll get maybe 2-3 special rules per faction and FoC's can only be of one faction. No cross-pollination of special rules any more.

My Khorne world eaters are still amazed by other's ability to summon or being invisible. High hopes for my Lord of Skulls getting buffs, I might also get Bloodthirster of Insensate Rage to bloodbath.