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 Vaktathi wrote:

 Hanskrampf wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:
The more I think about these guys, the less sense they make to me as a distinct new unit. What role do they fill on the table? What niche do they fill? What new capability do they bring or what capability gap do they fill?

None that I can see. They're just beefier versions of existing units, literally "Space Marines +1". They bring nothing really new or necessary or neat to the Space Marines.

It'd be one thing if GW was just reimagining SM's as a whole and all SM units were getting this makeover, but as a distinct addition to the line, this whole concept seems...

Stupid.

You can't replace the enitre Space Marine line-up, including all special flavours of Marines and vehicles, in one go.
So GW starts of with (at least) Tacticals, Specialist Teams, Assault and a Dreadnaught. Maybe even a few Hero characters, as you can play a Primaris only army.
In two-ish years, we will only have Primaris Marines, as the story advances further and Primaris Marines replace more and more portions of the chapters. Mark my words.

oh I'm sure that's exactly what will happen, but they didnt need fluff or distinct rules for all this.

They redid the entire Dark Eldar line in one go in 5E, radically altering the visual nature of the army and replacing the entire lineup of models, and didnt need any weird fluff or rules to make that work.

DE were different though. To start they were one of the least popular armies, so tearing the bandaid off by replacing the whole line affected not many people. And then the whole model range was in a different edition so I don't think anyone was complaining. I assume they will do something similar with CSM

 Luciferian wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:
The more I think about these guys, the less sense they make to me as a distinct new unit. What role do they fill on the table? What niche do they fill? What new capability do they bring or what capability gap do they fill?

None that I can see. They're just beefier versions of existing units, literally "Space Marines +1". They bring nothing really new or necessary or neat to the Space Marines.

It'd be one thing if GW was just reimagining SM's as a whole and all SM units were getting this makeover, but as a distinct addition to the line, this whole concept seems...

Stupid.

It seems stupid because reimagining SM as a whole is exactly what they're doing, and they're only rolling it out this way to make it a gradual and gentle transition as opposed to making everyone's SM armies obsolete all at once.

You hit the nail on the head Lucy!

I don't think it will be gentle though.

I think they are finally trying to Truescale the Marine line of products - and this is the way they decided to do it. It was gonna be painful regardless of what they decided to do and honestly would have expected them to never pull the trigger.

They do look beautiful though...

I'm not sure why making newer models would cause existing armies to be obsolete or result in pain to players. There are plenty of armies out there with obsolete and OOP models. People dont get particularly butthurt when something gets updated. I've got tons of metal terminators. GK, Chaos, and others. I'm not hacked off by the existence of plastic kit Terminators with larger size models at all though...

It's when it gets hamfisted over existing stuff that people get angry, at least beyond the subset that will get upset at anything and everything anyway.

Why on earth would anybody take these things?

They strike me as utterly useless.

They're a worse version of Sternguard. The only advantage they get is the additional wound.

If GW's goal was to "truescale" their line then what would they do for CSM? Would they use the Fabius Bile "New Man Project" / Enhanced Warriors to bring CSM up to par ( in regard to height and stats) or would they ignore them? In a recent article they said Chaos is getting some love in the way of Death Guard, but that's only comforting if you're a DG player.

MurderKing wrote:
If GW's goal was to "truescale" their line then what would they do for CSM? Would they use the Fabius Bile "New Man Project" / Enhanced Warriors to bring CSM up to par ( in regard to height and stats) or would they ignore them? In a recent article they said Chaos is getting some love in the way of Death Guard, but that's only comforting if you're a DG player.

Well for chaos they can say that the gods are increasing their size for reasons. But chaos will easier just because their model range is majority very old, so just redoing the whole line won't upset as many people cause they get new models finally

Yea, if they plan on upscaling csm, it would be either, "eh whatever swollen by chaos", fabius, or some equally hamfisted lore explanation involving thunderwarriors.

They already said pretty much exactly that on Facebook.

Pancakey wrote:



You hit the nail on the head Lucy!

I don't think it will be gentle though.

I would come up with a cute diminution of your name as well, but you've already saved me the effort.

 Roknar wrote:
Yea, if they plan on upscaling csm, it would be either, "eh whatever swollen by chaos", fabius, or some equally hamfisted lore explanation involving thunderwarriors.

I doubt numarines are taint proof, some will defect. as for the previous comments of how do we have dreds of them already... well all it takes is one falling to get a single dred and maybe it is a numodel due to a larger sarcophagus "oh well while we need to redesign may as well improve"

MurderKing wrote:
If GW's goal was to "truescale" their line then what would they do for CSM? Would they use the Fabius Bile "New Man Project" / Enhanced Warriors to bring CSM up to par ( in regard to height and stats) or would they ignore them? In a recent article they said Chaos is getting some love in the way of Death Guard, but that's only comforting if you're a DG player.

If you've been paying attention - they HAVE been truescaling their Chaos line (at least a little). The Chaos Chosen in DV were truer-scale, the Thousand Sons were truer-scale.. and I guarantee that the new Death Guard will get a height boost.

 Luciferian wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:
The more I think about these guys, the less sense they make to me as a distinct new unit. What role do they fill on the table? What niche do they fill? What new capability do they bring or what capability gap do they fill?

None that I can see. They're just beefier versions of existing units, literally "Space Marines +1". They bring nothing really new or necessary or neat to the Space Marines.

It'd be one thing if GW was just reimagining SM's as a whole and all SM units were getting this makeover, but as a distinct addition to the line, this whole concept seems...

Stupid.

It seems stupid because reimagining SM as a whole is exactly what they're doing, and they're only rolling it out this way to make it a gradual and gentle transition as opposed to making everyone's SM armies obsolete all at once.

This is basically the unspoken secret. GW at least now knows that if they go on a crusade of invalidation like AoS did, it would just tank the initial release. Like those "massagers", you gotta work it in slowly and gradually in size or it's gonna tear the taint

 G00fySmiley wrote:

 Roknar wrote:
Yea, if they plan on upscaling csm, it would be either, "eh whatever swollen by chaos", fabius, or some equally hamfisted lore explanation involving thunderwarriors.

I doubt numarines are taint proof, some will defect. as for the previous comments of how do we have dreds of them already... well all it takes is one falling to get a single dred and maybe it is a numodel due to a larger sarcophagus "oh well while we need to redesign may as well improve"

Maybe the dread is an attempt to hide already present defects?
"Soooo, what are we gonna do about that first batch that are all crippled or worse?"
"Uhm... you mean those designed to fit into my new dreadnought design?" *fake smile*

 Roknar wrote:

 G00fySmiley wrote:

 Roknar wrote:
Yea, if they plan on upscaling csm, it would be either, "eh whatever swollen by chaos", fabius, or some equally hamfisted lore explanation involving thunderwarriors.

I doubt numarines are taint proof, some will defect. as for the previous comments of how do we have dreds of them already... well all it takes is one falling to get a single dred and maybe it is a numodel due to a larger sarcophagus "oh well while we need to redesign may as well improve"

Maybe the dread is an attempt to hide already present defects?
"Soooo, what are we gonna do about that first batch that are all crippled or worse?"
"Uhm... you mean those designed to fit into my new dreadnought design?" *fake smile*

haha i like that, tombs for the alpha and beta test numarines

I'm actually excited about these rules. I don't play Marines per se, but I own about a dozen Tac marines, 3 bikes, 2 Assault Marines and 2 terminators (all for painting purposes)
They've been great to use in Kill Team games with my kids (who don't yet have the attention spam for anything non-video game related).

These Primaris Marine rules could be a great way to upscale our games and introduce 8th edition to them.

Galef wrote:These Primaris Marine rules could be a great way to upscale our games and introduce 8th edition to them.

Why on earth would you want to?

They can't bring heavy or special weapons.

Oddly, I've been collecting the Space Marines from various starter sets since Black Reach with the idea of using the 'rag-tag' poorly equipped fellas (I mean their heavy weapons are mostly Flamers and Missile Launchers...how much worse could it get? Heavy Rocks?).

Now, perhaps, the Lamenters would get reinforced by Primaris Marines! Only to see them horribly killed in a tragic accident on their first outing...

....to be interred in the new Primaris Super-Dreadnoughts!

 Traditio wrote:
Why on earth would anybody take these things?

They strike me as utterly useless.

They're a worse version of Sternguard. The only advantage they get is the additional wound.

I will remind you that we have no idea what Sternguard do. For all we know they're a Tyranid unit now.

ERJAK wrote:I will remind you that we have no idea what Sternguard do. For all we know they're a Tyranid unit now.

Fair enough, but consider the following:

1. Nu-marines fill a troops slot. So they're competing with tactical marines. To compensate for the snazzier gun, the extra wound and the extra attack, they will almost certainly cost more points.

[Given that they are power 6, my guess is that each one is going to cost 15-17 points per model.]

However:

2. They can't take special or heavy weapons.

So you are basically stuck with a less durable, less killy version of Thousand Sons.

Except, without upgrade options.

These things are terrible.

I am not a big fan of the role SM have as poster boys. But i have to admit the Nu-marines look cool.

I'm actually pretty excited to see what GW is going to present as new chapters exclusively fielding these new marines.

I'll definitely pick up a squad or a blister or something to paint one, either as one of these new chapters or an old standby.

 Captain Joystick wrote:
I'm actually pretty excited to see what GW is going to present as new chapters exclusively fielding these new marines.

I'll definitely pick up a squad or a blister or something to paint one, either as one of these new chapters or an old standby.

God bless the even-tempered nature of the Canadians. Why can't everyone have a little positive energy like this?

Including myself here.

I wonder if the addition and reliance on numarines in the fluff will have an effect on loyalist chapters. As in specifically spelled out.
Even without the influence of chaos this should warrant a stinkeye from some chapter masters and is ideal ground fo abaddon or whomever to mock them.
The future of mankind hinging on vatborn abominations that haven't seen a day of battle and already receive the honour of being interred in dreadnoughts. (because reasons)
Marines who spilled blood, theirs and their enemies, in the name of the emperor...only to be replaced by glorified children. Expected to follow their orders as well.

Yea, that doesn't sound familiar at all.
Besides there were rumours that one chapter would turn right?

(possibly NSFW)

I'm happy at least they didn't go with that godawful MK VII helmet design that looks like a poor man's Darth Vader. At least this way they'll fit with my relic marines more smoothly. I would have preferred S5 T5 for fluffy marines but at 2 wounds it's still a significant improvement. Plus those bolt rifles look a lot more appealing than the joke that is current bolters.


GW really is going to push these things hard as they can with the rules, aren't they?

 Kellevil wrote:
I think one of the worst parts of this, lore wise, is the fact that if I want to do an army completely made of the new scale marines I will never be able to use any of the old characters.

If they had just re scaled the line you could just wait for the resculpt of your favorite character. Now if you go all new marines you wont be able to use Tiggy or any of the cool old characters. At least not without them looking out of place next to all of the bigger dudes.

Thats exactly my biggest problem with all of this. I have 0 problems with the new fluff or the new models, I really like them. But the fact that it will make my Seraphicus, Azrael, Urik the Slayer, etc... all midgets between a sea of giants... me don't like

 Wyzilla wrote:
I'm happy at least they didn't go with that godawful MK VII helmet design that looks like a poor man's Darth Vader. At least this way they'll fit with my relic marines more smoothly. I would have preferred S5 T5 for fluffy marines but at 2 wounds it's still a significant improvement. Plus those bolt rifles look a lot more appealing than the joke that is current bolters.


GW really is going to push these things hard as they can with the rules, aren't they?

Why everyone hates the Mark VII helmet? Is actually my favourite one (After the beakie one), they look angry!

So their big selling point is 2 wounds...

Which would be insane in previous editions... but I mean with a ton of weapons dealing multiple wounds now...

You may not even notice that they even have 2 wounds.

 Wyzilla wrote:
I'm happy at least they didn't go with that godawful MK VII helmet design that looks like a poor man's Darth Vader. At least this way they'll fit with my relic marines more smoothly. I would have preferred S5 T5 for fluffy marines but at 2 wounds it's still a significant improvement. Plus those bolt rifles look a lot more appealing than the joke that is current bolters.


GW really is going to push these things hard as they can with the rules, aren't they?

It kind of sucks they look less gothic, and more uniform. Less variations in armor except for shoulderpads and insignia. The VII helmet for me was the iconic SM look for 40k. The new guys look cool but the lack of any subtle variation is kind of off putting. Especially considering how the last update of the tact squad included more variation in armor mks and more personalization options.

Maybe its just the starter set ones that are less detailed, and a multi part kit later will have more customization options. I'm still glad i'll finally get to use my chapter upgrade shoulderpads though!

I don't like the loooong bolters, err, bolt rifles. Those guys with the round thingies removed from the shin armour, the kneepads trimmed (didn't like it on Mk VIII, either) and normal bolters and heads woud be so much better at being regular Marines than normal "normal" Marine models.

Count me in team "I don't want this new Gathering Storm+ background".

 Galas wrote:

 Kellevil wrote:
I think one of the worst parts of this, lore wise, is the fact that if I want to do an army completely made of the new scale marines I will never be able to use any of the old characters.

If they had just re scaled the line you could just wait for the resculpt of your favorite character. Now if you go all new marines you wont be able to use Tiggy or any of the cool old characters. At least not without them looking out of place next to all of the bigger dudes.

Thats exactly my biggest problem with all of this. I have 0 problems with the new fluff or the new models, I really like them. But the fact that it will make my Seraphicus, Azrael, Urik the Slayer, etc... all midgets between a sea of giants... me don't like

 Wyzilla wrote:
I'm happy at least they didn't go with that godawful MK VII helmet design that looks like a poor man's Darth Vader. At least this way they'll fit with my relic marines more smoothly. I would have preferred S5 T5 for fluffy marines but at 2 wounds it's still a significant improvement. Plus those bolt rifles look a lot more appealing than the joke that is current bolters.


GW really is going to push these things hard as they can with the rules, aren't they?

Why everyone hates the Mark VII helmet? Is actually my favourite one (After the beakie one), they look angry!

MK VII doesn't look gothic and it doesn't look original. Plus from a design perspective having a giant flat surface with weaker armor is asking for headshots to gut your armor. MK 3 and MK IV look a lot better, and MK VI is the most original looking piece of armor in 40k, as sci fi doesn't have hounskulls at all really.

 Thargrim wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:
I'm happy at least they didn't go with that godawful MK VII helmet design that looks like a poor man's Darth Vader. At least this way they'll fit with my relic marines more smoothly. I would have preferred S5 T5 for fluffy marines but at 2 wounds it's still a significant improvement. Plus those bolt rifles look a lot more appealing than the joke that is current bolters.


GW really is going to push these things hard as they can with the rules, aren't they?

It kind of sucks they look less gothic, and more uniform. Less variations in armor except for shoulderpads and insignia. The VII helmet for me was the iconic SM look for 40k. The new guys look cool but the lack of any subtle variation is kind of off putting. Especially considering how the last update of the tact squad included more variation in armor mks and more personalization options.

Maybe its just the starter set ones that are less detailed, and a multi part kit later will have more customization options. I'm still glad i'll finally get to use my chapter upgrade shoulderpads though!

This is iconic. MK VII just looks like a ripoff with the numbers filed off it and given an off brand name "Barth Cader"