Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Are there any indications that Matched Play rules will have restrictions on Detachments, either in number or combination?

My BA absolutely love this. When Assault Marines were moved to Fast Attack from troops, when Death Company were moved to Elites from troops, when DC dreads were moved to Elites from troops and when Baal Preds were moved to Heavy Support from Fast Attack, it literally invalidated EVERY BA list I ever ran (I mean I still had tons of models I never usually used to allow plenty of options with the new dex but moving 4 MAIN units to other slots in one codex change was a bit much, it's not like any one of them was close to broken - plus Baals losing scout was huge), I lost the mass jump pack list, the assault marine (NOT the same as tacs at all) and DC drop list and my favourite - my armoured fist lists focussing on many Baals and Vindis, supported by a few jp troops.
Whoever wrote that last BA dex clearly didn't understand BA and only did a cursory check of forums to see the most complaints was about the cost of Sanguinary Guard, the DC jump pack upgrade, the loss of +1I from FC in 7th (but put restrictions on getting it back) and Mephiston not being an IC. They took away the decent rules for blood talons (the only even slightly close to OP thing in the dex - but it wasn't like it was easy for us to get those dreads into assault anyway) magna grapples, the ability for Libby dreads to jump around which was the only thing that made them useful, even Tychos armour-ignoring hand, thus making him useless against everything but orks. They made our scouts inferior to the SM scouts released 2 months later and our assault termis more expensive than the SM equivalent. They even nerfed the Sanguinor!!! Who was already one of the worst choices in the dex (albeit bringing his points cost down) People at the time were so blinded by the fact that marines were the odd point cheaper, DC jps had gone from 15pts to 3pts and we had the chance of having old FC back that they seemed to LOVE the new dex at first... then everyone had played a few games with it and realised without FW it is absolute bottom tier trash. It was like the writer was the stereo typical right wing politician - giving the masses a couple of things they wanted so they don't realise that you're stealing everything else.

...
Sorry got sidetracked there
...

Anyway - now all the lists I could run in 6th are back :-D


Edit - they realised how badly their writer had ballsed up the dex that they had to release TWO supplements just to help out BA and a new FOC chart that got widespread condemnation because it allowed others to abuse it for 'taxi service' drop pods, thus being a main contributor to the rule that you can't start in an allies transport, hence screwing Skittari in the process. Butterfly effect in action.

Well at least Tycho will have a weird profile for his hand, right?

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Well at least Tycho will have a weird profile for his hand, right?

Haha maybe, although I have a sneaking suspicion that they will just kill him off by not writing rules for him and retire his 2nd ed model from their model range, since he is after all dead in the fluff and nobody uses him. I've seen Malakim Phoros used more than Tycho and he's a Badab FW character that most people havent heard about - so that's saying a lot!

Poly Ranger wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Well at least Tycho will have a weird profile for his hand, right?

Haha maybe, although I have a sneaking suspicion that they will just kill him off by not writing rules for him and retire his 2nd ed model from their model range, since he is after all dead in the fluff and nobody uses him. I've seen Malakim Phoros used more than Tycho and he's a Badab FW character that most people havent heard about - so that's saying a lot!

Malakim doesn't have gak rules though.

Very true

Stop the press!! Can someone please inform GW that a list created using 7th edition rules, relying on one particular faction rule, is potentially being invalidated? The fact he hasn't even done it yet makes it even more important that GW are informed ASAP.

I've always really enjoyed list building and these various detachments will add even more variety to the process. Looking good!

DevilsPox wrote:
Are there any indications that Matched Play rules will have restrictions on Detachments, either in number or combination?

yes they said as much in the battle forged run down here : https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/05/05/new-warhammer-40000-battle-forged-armiesgw-homepage-post-4/
when they said

Then it's been illuded to how it will work in the latest gene stealer cult run down here https://www.warhammer-community.com/2017/05/27/warhammer-40000-faction-focus-genestealer-cults/
when they said

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:

 ross-128 wrote:

 Robin5t wrote:
Somewhat concerned that as things stand my army can play literally none of these.

I'm assuming they will address this somehow.

Are you sure? Patrol has a minimum of 1 HQ and 1 Troop.

If you can't put down 1 HQ and 1 Troop, just what kind of army do you have?

One of the two armies with out an HQ choice.

Since, Independent characters (Shadowseer, Solitaire, and Death Jester) are not allowed to join units. They will be made their own units. Which means they will probably be made Shadowseer and Solitaire as HQ units and Death Jester as Heavy.

That would just be my guess.

With all the hopefully good things I have been seeing, I am hoping Iron Hands will be a unique army again instead of smurf wannabes. Hopind Kardan Stronos gets retconned out as he is just dumb, and we get Term sergeants back, Iron Fathers back, and possibly Dread Hqs. Oh, and our non standard compliant Companies back (each one it's own separate force rather than one being elites another fast attack ect.). Maybe even an option to support the IH's belief in a battle council. Iknow none of this will probably happen, but I am still hoping.

 NorseSig wrote:
With all the hopefully good things I have been seeing, I am hoping Iron Hands will be a unique army again instead of smurf wannabes. Hopind Kardan Stronos gets retconned out as he is just dumb, and we get Term sergeants back, Iron Fathers back, and possibly Dread Hqs. Oh, and our non standard compliant Companies back (each one it's own separate force rather than one being elites another fast attack ect.). Maybe even an option to support the IH's belief in a battle council. Iknow none of this will probably happen, but I am still hoping.

proably not, the fluff bit just requires a codex writer who loves Iron Hands, GW to decide that there is money in the chapter, as well as the rules to really work well in the game (lack of uniform stats in units has been a pain before, I suspect we're gonna see GW trying to avoid that being too much of a thing) truthfully I have a suspicion we're gonna see LESS snowflakeing among marines rather then more

BrianDavion wrote:

 NorseSig wrote:
With all the hopefully good things I have been seeing, I am hoping Iron Hands will be a unique army again instead of smurf wannabes. Hopind Kardan Stronos gets retconned out as he is just dumb, and we get Term sergeants back, Iron Fathers back, and possibly Dread Hqs. Oh, and our non standard compliant Companies back (each one it's own separate force rather than one being elites another fast attack ect.). Maybe even an option to support the IH's belief in a battle council. Iknow none of this will probably happen, but I am still hoping.

proably not, the fluff bit just requires a codex writer who loves Iron Hands, GW to decide that there is money in the chapter, as well as the rules to really work well in the game (lack of uniform stats in units has been a pain before, I suspect we're gonna see GW trying to avoid that being too much of a thing) truthfully I have a suspicion we're gonna see LESS snowflakeing among marines rather then more

Unfortunately I think you are right. I know if Iron Hands become any more generic I am done. Though gw liked Iron Hands enough to make an upgrade kit for them. Granted it is an okay kit at best. I'm just kind of unhappy that the army I love and wanted to play no longer really exists. It goes by the name Iron Hands but it really isn't. It is just smurfs with less goodies now. I am hoping 8th will give me a reason to play them again.

 NorseSig wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 NorseSig wrote:
With all the hopefully good things I have been seeing, I am hoping Iron Hands will be a unique army again instead of smurf wannabes. Hopind Kardan Stronos gets retconned out as he is just dumb, and we get Term sergeants back, Iron Fathers back, and possibly Dread Hqs. Oh, and our non standard compliant Companies back (each one it's own separate force rather than one being elites another fast attack ect.). Maybe even an option to support the IH's belief in a battle council. Iknow none of this will probably happen, but I am still hoping.

proably not, the fluff bit just requires a codex writer who loves Iron Hands, GW to decide that there is money in the chapter, as well as the rules to really work well in the game (lack of uniform stats in units has been a pain before, I suspect we're gonna see GW trying to avoid that being too much of a thing) truthfully I have a suspicion we're gonna see LESS snowflakeing among marines rather then more

Unfortunately I think you are right. I know if Iron Hands become any more generic I am done. Though gw liked Iron Hands enough to make an upgrade kit for them. Granted it is an okay kit at best. I'm just kind of unhappy that the army I love and wanted to play no longer really exists. It goes by the name Iron Hands but it really isn't. It is just smurfs with less goodies now. I am hoping 8th will give me a reason to play them again.

the orginization behind the scenes is msotly flluff so easily corrected, chapter tactics can add a lot, some of the stuff like terminator sergents hoenstly just doesn't work right and is a bad idea in practice (it means the iron hands can't use rhinos, for example) still other stuff should be doable. I could see GW possiably doing some small scale stuff for other chapters, as the differance between iron hands and say... space wolves becomes less relevant as they all share a single index.

Youn wrote:

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:

 ross-128 wrote:

 Robin5t wrote:
Somewhat concerned that as things stand my army can play literally none of these.

I'm assuming they will address this somehow.

Are you sure? Patrol has a minimum of 1 HQ and 1 Troop.

If you can't put down 1 HQ and 1 Troop, just what kind of army do you have?

One of the two armies with out an HQ choice.

Since, Independent characters (Shadowseer, Solitaire, and Death Jester) are not allowed to join units. They will be made their own units. Which means they will probably be made Shadowseer and Solitaire as HQ units and Death Jester as Heavy.

That would just be my guess.

I don't see the link between IC not being able to join units and them being HQ instead of Elite.

The Solitaires stay by themselves and only join masques during battles, and everyone is afraid of them. They won't become HQs.
Fluffwise, the troupe master makes the most valid HQ candidate, but it would be a bit odd as it's sold in the normal troupe box (just like any sergeant) instead of a clampack. And it's not really a "buffer", which would make for a poor independent character.
On the other side, the shadowseer will probably keep something similar to the current veil of tears, which would become an aura (that's actually how it works in SW:A). Gameplay-wise, it would make a perfect HQ choice.

So my money is on the shadowseer becoming an HQ choice, or Harlequins getting a way to field detachments without HQ choices, but that would probably restrict their army building capacity a lot compared to just getting access to a HQ.

fresus wrote:
Fluffwise, the troupe master makes the most valid HQ candidate, but it would be a bit odd as it's sold in the normal troupe box (just like any sergeant) instead of a clampack. And it's not really a "buffer", which would make for a poor independent character.

Well not many characters before has been much of a buffer before yet are going to become buffers. Did basic marine commanders give rerolls to hit before? Don't think so!

Wouldn't surprise me if ALL characters in 8th buff people around whether they buffed them before or not.

So my money is on the shadowseer becoming an HQ choice, or Harlequins getting a way to field detachments without HQ choices, but that would probably restrict their army building capacity a lot compared to just getting access to a HQ.

Certainly most likely solution. 2nd most likely being new release but doubtful they release new harlequin model at the start of 8th ed.

So.. maybe i'm being Daft... does the dedicated transport wording mean you can take a DT for every unit under the HQ slot.

I'm probably reading too much into the wording " May include 1 for each other choice" Other?

lords of war should subtract command points

 G00fySmiley wrote:
lords of war should subtract command points

Why?

Martel732 wrote:

 G00fySmiley wrote:
lords of war should subtract command points

Why?

mostly because I am hoping to see tournament lists beyond as many big models as possible.

from a practical perspective they seem to have gotten toned down but are almost all really good. especially now that non lord of war units like dante, ghaz, and calgar are HQ again where they always should have been.

from a personal perspective I prefer units and tanks vs units and tanks not units and tanks vs gundam wing

Haha. I still remember an economic battletech game i played where everyone quit because all i built were tanks and airplanes. One match i literally had 250 tanks vs like 16 mechs. It was silly b/c battletech is silly.

 G00fySmiley wrote:

Martel732 wrote:

 G00fySmiley wrote:
lords of war should subtract command points

Why?

mostly because I am hoping to see tournament lists beyond as many big models as possible.

from a practical perspective they seem to have gotten toned down but are almost all really good. especially now that non lord of war units like dante, ghaz, and calgar are HQ again where they always should have been.

from a personal perspective I prefer units and tanks vs units and tanks not units and tanks vs gundam wing

With how scoring works in 8th, I doubt we will see SH spam any more.
Or even more than 1 per list.

See, when two ork boys outscore an imperial knight, a horde army (and/or MSU army) have a REALLY easy time to hold objectives against SH armies.

Inversely, all it takes is one unit that is that right combination of speed, firepower and durability for its cost to make it that much better and there aren't as many restrictions in place to stop it from being spammed ad infinitum. With 7th, GW at least had to write a formation to push said power units without a tax

 DevilsPox wrote:
Are there any indications that Matched Play rules will have restrictions on Detachments, either in number or combination?

Pg 214 in the BRB. Most TOs seem to be going with 2k points, 3 detachments max for now.

The only superheavies I would be worried about seeing are Baneblades. I run a company (3) of them and they are stupid good in this edition.

Mainly, the issue is if you want an objective you just drive on it. The Baneblades are wide enough that the enemy cannot get within 3" of the center of the objective even when in B2B with the Baneblade, so until they kill it the objective is uncontestable.

The way its worded, what are the restrictions on dedicated transports? In some instances (the Eldar Wave Serpent for example), the transport almost works as a full on tank. The wording in the FOC simply says "one for each unit", etc. Are there restrictions in the rules around this or will you see people spamming a Wave Serpent (used as a light tank) for things like Eldar dreadnoughts, Avatars etc. and other units which can't actually make use of them?

Given how tough vehicles are, for instance, is a Razorback a dedicated transport? Could marine players likewise spam Razorbacks (again serving as light tanks) for things like Terminators, and jump marines etc. which they can't actually transport?

 Elbows wrote:
The way its worded, what are the restrictions on dedicated transports? In some instances (the Eldar Wave Serpent for example), the transport almost works as a full on tank. The wording in the FOC simply says "one for each unit", etc. Are there restrictions in the rules around this or will you see people spamming a Wave Serpent (used as a light tank) for things like Eldar dreadnoughts, Avatars etc. and other units which can't actually make use of them?

Given how tough vehicles are, for instance, is a Razorback a dedicated transport? Could marine players likewise spam Razorbacks (again serving as light tanks) for things like Terminators, and jump marines etc. which they can't actually transport?

on transports that seems to be the case. take termies buy a razorback, do whatever the new term for terminators deep striking is to place in 9 inches of enemy and get the cheap amazing assault cannon razorback too!