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Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut






After watching the first five episodes the phrase "more Star Trek than Star Trek" comes to mind when I think about this show.
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






SoCal, USA!

Rerun of the pilot last night, and I'm glad they changed Alara's look.

   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






SoCal, USA!

Yay, new episode tonight!

   
Made in gb
Multispectral Nisse




Luton, UK

Absolutely nailed it.

Further:

An episode that visits a society that has essentially replaced legal courts with Twitter... I did see the ending coming, but it was still well crafted.

This was really reminiscent of all those episodes of Trek where they'd go to 20th century/Parallel Earth and be amazed at the 'barbarity' of it, but updated for the 21st century. I'm glad it's not just episodes filled with spaceship combat, forehead aliens and lasers every week - some of my favourite Trek episodes are the slightly more off-beat ones in fairly mundane settings. It was also good to see an episode where more of the crew got to do something rather than it just being centrally about Mercer. Reminds me of a lot of TNG episodes where Picard would be still be on the ship making decisions but most of the screen time would be on someone like Geordi or Troi. John has been the crew member we've seen the least of so far in terms of personality too.

10/10 for me, best episode so far.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/10/27 08:04:57


“Good people are quick to help others in need, without hesitation or requiring proof the need is genuine. The wicked will believe they are fighting for good, but when others are in need they’ll be reluctant to help, withholding compassion until they see proof of that need. And yet Evil is quick to condemn, vilify and attack. For Evil, proof isn’t needed to bring harm, only hatred and a belief in the cause.” 
   
Made in us
Nihilistic Necron Lord






They're pulling no punches.

 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






SoCal, USA!

The episode works very well, actually, both as a superficial commentary on social media, and also a commentary on democracy as a whole. I liked that Mercer to had a comment about representatives and change. Very subtle.

Considering that the DNC Chair yesterday claimed that the Electoral College wasn't enshrined in the Constitution, the episode is even more timely.

   
Made in nl
Stone Bonkers Fabricator General




We'll find out soon enough eh.

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
The episode works very well, actually, both as a superficial commentary on social media, and also a commentary on democracy as a whole. I liked that Mercer to had a comment about representatives and change. Very subtle.

Considering that the DNC Chair yesterday claimed that the Electoral College wasn't enshrined in the Constitution, the episode is even more timely.


You'd hope that the kind of representation he was referring to was your basic "vote for politicians" kind rather than the somewhat ludicrous Electoral College which can actively subvert democracy - if they're evolved enough socially to recognise how weird and primitive capitalism is you'd think the Union would have Proportional Representation. Besides which, I "read" the episode less as a criticism of direct democracy than as a criticism of absolute direct democracy, and mostly of defining what's factual by majority will rather than a rational, verifiable, repeatable process, with a few easy shots at the pile-on culture of social media.

I need to acquire plastic Skavenslaves, can you help?
I have a blog now, evidently. Featuring the Alternative Mordheim Model Megalist.

"Your society's broken, so who should we blame? Should we blame the rich, powerful people who caused it? No, lets blame the people with no power and no money and those immigrants who don't even have the vote. Yea, it must be their fething fault." - Iain M Banks
-----
"The language of modern British politics is meant to sound benign. But words do not mean what they seem to mean. 'Reform' actually means 'cut' or 'end'. 'Flexibility' really means 'exploit'. 'Prudence' really means 'don't invest'. And 'efficient'? That means whatever you want it to mean, usually 'cut'. All really mean 'keep wages low for the masses, taxes low for the rich, profits high for the corporations, and accept the decline in public services and amenities this will cause'." - Robin McAlpine from Common Weal 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






SoCal, USA!

The Electoral College isn't nearly as bad as the losing side tends to make it out to be. It certainly simplifies any recount issues.

   
Made in us
Fiery Bright Wizard





California

That episode reminded me of the first black mirror episode so much. I'd almost say there is a pretty direct influence present. So it's far from an original idea to do this, but it was executed well enough...solid episode.

 
   
Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)




The Great State of Texas

Strangely, it made me want to see an episode about one of these observation teams.

-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






SoCal, USA!

 Frazzled wrote:
Strangely, it made me want to see an episode about one of these observation teams.


If they're doing their jobs properly, there's basically nothing to see - boooring..

   
Made in gb
Multispectral Nisse




Luton, UK

Having reflected on this episode for a few days, and watching a few reviews online, I have been thinking about the society depicted. This in no way impacts on how good i think the episode is, but I did end up thinking: What's the point of up votes? It seemed like all the tallying and judgement was based on the down vote system and I'm not sure what, if anything, anyone was getting out of being upvoted.

Secondly, would there be any sort of reduction in downvotes ever? Let's say that someone did go through what John went through and ended up 4 votes away from a lobotomy... would you really be able to go the rest of your life without getting those 4 votes? What if someone recognised you from the video? There seemed to be an arbitrary time limit for the 'correction' votes, but what happens then?

Lastly, how could government work in such a society? Can you imagine an election like the last US one, with two historically unpopular candidates? There's no way either of them are lasting a day without getting millions of downvotes.

And it's easy to say "oh, well they have direct democracy, so there's no need for government", but then you get into the questions of: who organises the legal system we see? Who appointed the publicity officer? Who books the apology tours? Who maintains the 'correction' facility? Who is in charge of issuing the badges? Who pays the cops' salaries?

As I say, this doesn't take away from the quality of the episode as it still got the points across that it was trying to make.

“Good people are quick to help others in need, without hesitation or requiring proof the need is genuine. The wicked will believe they are fighting for good, but when others are in need they’ll be reluctant to help, withholding compassion until they see proof of that need. And yet Evil is quick to condemn, vilify and attack. For Evil, proof isn’t needed to bring harm, only hatred and a belief in the cause.” 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut





The Battle Barge Buffet Line

 Riquende wrote:
Secondly, would there be any sort of reduction in downvotes ever? Let's say that someone did go through what John went through and ended up 4 votes away from a lobotomy... would you really be able to go the rest of your life without getting those 4 votes? What if someone recognised you from the video? There seemed to be an arbitrary time limit for the 'correction' votes, but what happens then?


According to the episode, the 10 mill downvotes to get lobotomized had to happen specifically within the time limit of the publicity tour. Afterwards, judging from the "500k downvotes, no service" sign, the person would suffer lifelong discrimination.

And it's easy to say "oh, well they have direct democracy, so there's no need for government", but then you get into the questions of: who organises the legal system we see? Who appointed the publicity officer? Who books the apology tours? Who maintains the 'correction' facility? Who is in charge of issuing the badges? Who pays the cops' salaries?


My guess is that most of your above questions are actually answered by your own earlier question about what the purpose of upvotes is. Applying for a job and you and the other applicant have the same education level, experience, and number of downvotes? The person with the most upvotes gets it. It would act as a major positive factor to consider in career/life advancement. As for salaries, they likely still have some form of taxes since they operate on a monetary currency in an apparently capitalist society. You would just have to be *VERY* careful as a politician when proposing to increase taxes...

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/10/30 15:44:07


We Munch for Macragge! FOR THE EMPRUH! Cheesesticks and Humus!
 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






SoCal, USA!

There might be a function where upvotes determine how fast downvotes decay. Or it could be a tiebreaker.

That said, I don't care how nice Stalin was to his niece, he's still a jerk. That's why it's a maximum downvotes vs minimum upvotes.

   
Made in nl
Stone Bonkers Fabricator General




We'll find out soon enough eh.

Woo! Renewed for season 2. Honestly I'm surprised, I genuinely thought Fox would...well, be Fox, cancelling scifi shows after the first season(usually after mangling the running order and/or timeslot) is almost tradition at this point.

Good to know there's still going to be a Star Trek show on TV for at least one more year.

I need to acquire plastic Skavenslaves, can you help?
I have a blog now, evidently. Featuring the Alternative Mordheim Model Megalist.

"Your society's broken, so who should we blame? Should we blame the rich, powerful people who caused it? No, lets blame the people with no power and no money and those immigrants who don't even have the vote. Yea, it must be their fething fault." - Iain M Banks
-----
"The language of modern British politics is meant to sound benign. But words do not mean what they seem to mean. 'Reform' actually means 'cut' or 'end'. 'Flexibility' really means 'exploit'. 'Prudence' really means 'don't invest'. And 'efficient'? That means whatever you want it to mean, usually 'cut'. All really mean 'keep wages low for the masses, taxes low for the rich, profits high for the corporations, and accept the decline in public services and amenities this will cause'." - Robin McAlpine from Common Weal 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






SoCal, USA!

Sweet!

The Orville is a breakout hit for Fox, with really good numbers for the slot. Plus, Fox owns it, so any secondary sales go directly into their pocket. After gaining viewers last week, renewal was basically guaranteed.

   
Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)




The Great State of Texas

 Yodhrin wrote:
Woo! Renewed for season 2. Honestly I'm surprised, I genuinely thought Fox would...well, be Fox, cancelling scifi shows after the first season(usually after mangling the running order and/or timeslot) is almost tradition at this point.

Good to know there's still going to be a Star Trek show on TV for at least one more year.

Excellent!

-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
 
   
Made in us
Archmagos Veneratus Extremis






Home Base: Prosper, TX (Dallas)

That makes me super happy. It's just plain fun. And doesn't pretend to be something it isn't.

Best Painted (2015 Adepticon 40k Champs)

They Shall Know Fear - Adepticon 40k TT Champion (2012 & 2013) & 40k TT Best Sport (2014), 40k TT Best Tactician (2015 & 2016) 
   
Made in nl
Stone Bonkers Fabricator General




We'll find out soon enough eh.

And a cool episode tonight to boot. One of my favourite things about the show is the soundtrack, I've caught myself humming the main theme a few times, but the in-show stuff was great this time as well, at times echoing the more punchy TOS style.

The dialogue was brilliant as well, from the unintended(on his part) humour of Isaac("The game is never to be spoken of again.", and "I would surmise that their intent was to consume you." had me in fething stitches) to the doc actually bothering to reinforce to her kid that he should only use the stun setting because they value life regardless of their desperate situation dealing with an opponent who clearly didn't.

So glad it was renewed.

I need to acquire plastic Skavenslaves, can you help?
I have a blog now, evidently. Featuring the Alternative Mordheim Model Megalist.

"Your society's broken, so who should we blame? Should we blame the rich, powerful people who caused it? No, lets blame the people with no power and no money and those immigrants who don't even have the vote. Yea, it must be their fething fault." - Iain M Banks
-----
"The language of modern British politics is meant to sound benign. But words do not mean what they seem to mean. 'Reform' actually means 'cut' or 'end'. 'Flexibility' really means 'exploit'. 'Prudence' really means 'don't invest'. And 'efficient'? That means whatever you want it to mean, usually 'cut'. All really mean 'keep wages low for the masses, taxes low for the rich, profits high for the corporations, and accept the decline in public services and amenities this will cause'." - Robin McAlpine from Common Weal 
   
Made in ca
Stone Bonkers Fabricator General






That's good news about the renewal. It just changed time slots which is usually a bad sign. Just watched the episode about downvoting people to death and thought it was the best one yet. That's the kind of social commentary episode that Star Trek couldn't do anymore because it's all "gritty" now.

 
   
Made in gb
Multispectral Nisse




Luton, UK

I haven't seen the end of the recent episode yet but it's entertaining enough - 'shuttle crash' is yet another well-plowed Trek episode type but I'm pleased to see a lot of focus on Isaac (and it seems he's basically playing out a Data episode by himself). The feel of this so far (10 minutes to go, damn having to leave for work) is that it could be lifted directly from DS9.

I loved the inclusion of the soy sauce spill in the damage report. "He put that in a damage report? We've got to get better people" I like the repeated highlighting of how the crew don't necessarily understand the ship, or at times their particular job. It makes it seem more like a real place of work, where everybody knows at least someone who is extremely unprofessional, or goofs off continuously, or is horribly over-promoted, or similar. As much as I like TNG, it represented an at-times-painful view of a perfect human society where everybody was professional, cultured and competent at whatever they needed to do (unless it's Troi having to command/pilot/anything).

Also, I'm really enjoying Bortus' deadpan delivery being included in the comedic exchanges.
"At the academy we called it a glory hole"
"No YOU called it a glory hole. Nobody else called it a glory hole"
"Preparing to enter the glory hole"


“Good people are quick to help others in need, without hesitation or requiring proof the need is genuine. The wicked will believe they are fighting for good, but when others are in need they’ll be reluctant to help, withholding compassion until they see proof of that need. And yet Evil is quick to condemn, vilify and attack. For Evil, proof isn’t needed to bring harm, only hatred and a belief in the cause.” 
   
Made in nl
Stone Bonkers Fabricator General




We'll find out soon enough eh.

Ehhh, not sure I agree about TNG. That's certainly the perception people have of it, but there were occasional forays into crew incompetence in the show, it's just that they were usually presented in a very "psychotherapist's couch" kind of tone where the flaw was an opportunity for everyone involved to better themselves that little bit more, rather than as punchlines in and of themselves. Barclay being a prime example.

Not that there's anything wrong with the latter per se, I like Orville plenty, but I think TNG gets an unfair rap because of the whole "professors in space/no overt petty interpersonal soapy-drama" thing - it wasn't so much presenting flawless individuals as it was presenting individuals who'd learned to manage and overcome their flaws in a way we can't yet. That certainly made them seem a bit alien to modern experience on occasion, often moreso than the rubber forehead of the week, but that was kind of the point.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/11/03 12:46:36


I need to acquire plastic Skavenslaves, can you help?
I have a blog now, evidently. Featuring the Alternative Mordheim Model Megalist.

"Your society's broken, so who should we blame? Should we blame the rich, powerful people who caused it? No, lets blame the people with no power and no money and those immigrants who don't even have the vote. Yea, it must be their fething fault." - Iain M Banks
-----
"The language of modern British politics is meant to sound benign. But words do not mean what they seem to mean. 'Reform' actually means 'cut' or 'end'. 'Flexibility' really means 'exploit'. 'Prudence' really means 'don't invest'. And 'efficient'? That means whatever you want it to mean, usually 'cut'. All really mean 'keep wages low for the masses, taxes low for the rich, profits high for the corporations, and accept the decline in public services and amenities this will cause'." - Robin McAlpine from Common Weal 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






SoCal, USA!

Nah. Picard always has the biggest stick up his ass. That's why you need Q and Troi's mom to come by and make things interesting. Otherwise, bring AF, and totally unlike any RL group.

   
Made in nl
Stone Bonkers Fabricator General




We'll find out soon enough eh.

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
Nah. Picard always has the biggest stick up his ass. That's why you need Q and Troi's mom to come by and make things interesting. Otherwise, bring AF, and totally unlike any RL group.


Picard is one character in an ensemble show, and regardless isn't perfect by any means - his issues with kids, his problems with his family, the fallout from his Borgification etc. Just because characters aren't hurling themselves about the place sobbing and chewing the scenery doesn't mean they're boring IMO.

And again, they're not supposed to be like an RL group, that's the whole point, they're supposed to be what we could be if we weren't collectively such self-absorbed petty arseholes.

I need to acquire plastic Skavenslaves, can you help?
I have a blog now, evidently. Featuring the Alternative Mordheim Model Megalist.

"Your society's broken, so who should we blame? Should we blame the rich, powerful people who caused it? No, lets blame the people with no power and no money and those immigrants who don't even have the vote. Yea, it must be their fething fault." - Iain M Banks
-----
"The language of modern British politics is meant to sound benign. But words do not mean what they seem to mean. 'Reform' actually means 'cut' or 'end'. 'Flexibility' really means 'exploit'. 'Prudence' really means 'don't invest'. And 'efficient'? That means whatever you want it to mean, usually 'cut'. All really mean 'keep wages low for the masses, taxes low for the rich, profits high for the corporations, and accept the decline in public services and amenities this will cause'." - Robin McAlpine from Common Weal 
   
Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)




The Great State of Texas

 Yodhrin wrote:
 JohnHwangDD wrote:
Nah. Picard always has the biggest stick up his ass. That's why you need Q and Troi's mom to come by and make things interesting. Otherwise, bring AF, and totally unlike any RL group.


Picard is one character in an ensemble show, and regardless isn't perfect by any means - his issues with kids, his problems with his family, the fallout from his Borgification etc. Just because characters aren't hurling themselves about the place sobbing and chewing the scenery doesn't mean they're boring IMO.

And again, they're not supposed to be like an RL group, that's the whole point, they're supposed to be what we could be if we weren't collectively such self-absorbed petty arseholes.


Only in a waspy Stepford Wife wealthy 1950s Protestant sort of way. TNG characters did not develop a personality until Roddenberry lost control. Even then they were mostly a bunch of arrogant elitist types who did nothing but have cocktail parties. That of course doesn't even begin to bring in the abomination that was Wesley (in reality the Borg only came to Earth to stop the Cacodemon that was Crusher from destroying the universe). Picard became better later but was still stuck up about it. Obrien was the only actual human on that ship, and he jumped as soon as he could to DS9.


-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






New Orleans, LA

I've seen the first two episodes. Does it get better? What I saw sucked ass.

DA:70S+G+M+B++I++Pw40k08+D++A++/fWD-R+T(M)DM+
 
   
Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)




The Great State of Texas

It definitely gets better

-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
 
   
Made in ca
Stone Bonkers Fabricator General






Yes, it seems to slowly get better each episode. I think the last one was the best yet.

 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






SoCal, USA!

 kronk wrote:
I've seen the first two episodes. Does it get better?


The first episode is heavy on introductions, but it's one of the better ensemble introductions that I've seen, as far as these things go.

The second is a bit rough, while the third is a bit oddly heavy.

As of episode 4, the show basically finds itself and is so legitimately good that you don't need to make excuses.

As far as comparison goes, if you rewatch the first few episodes of TNG, the Orville is plainly better episode for episode.

   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






New Orleans, LA

Thanks, John.

DA:70S+G+M+B++I++Pw40k08+D++A++/fWD-R+T(M)DM+
 
   
 
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