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JSF wrote:... this is really quite an audacious move by GW, throwing out any pretext that this is a game and that its customers exist to do anything other than buy their overpriced products for the sake of it. The naked arrogance, greed and contempt for their audience is shocking.
BDconrad wrote: GW: Hey guys, there are two missing Primarchs that you can totally do whatever you want with! Make up the story yourself!
A few years pass.
GW: Never mind, Leman Russ killed them all and the other Primarchs watched, can't be your dudes anymore.
Sorry, this one always got on my nerves like nothing else...
except we don't know Russ killed them. they've been pretty vague (to the point of sillyness) with the missing primarchs
Not exactly. We know Russ and his Legion put down one of the two missing legions and its Primarch. The other... not really sure.
It is looking like Russ exterminated one and the other was wholey wiped out in the Ragdan Xenocide.
We don't know that Russ wiped out one of the missing legions. Where does it say that? That wasn't stated in Prospero Burns. Is there another book that spells this out?
BDconrad wrote: GW: Hey guys, there are two missing Primarchs that you can totally do whatever you want with! Make up the story yourself!
A few years pass.
GW: Never mind, Leman Russ killed them all and the other Primarchs watched, can't be your dudes anymore.
Sorry, this one always got on my nerves like nothing else...
except we don't know Russ killed them. they've been pretty vague (to the point of sillyness) with the missing primarchs
Not exactly. We know Russ and his Legion put down one of the two missing legions and its Primarch. The other... not really sure.
It is looking like Russ exterminated one and the other was wholey wiped out in the Ragdan Xenocide.
We don't know that Russ wiped out one of the missing legions. Where does it say that? That wasn't stated in Prospero Burns. Is there another book that spells this out?
It's implies Russ had a hand in sanctioning other legions in the past but it's HARDLY stated outright he did. For all we know all those referances are to the "Night of the Wolf"
Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two
BDconrad wrote: GW: Hey guys, there are two missing Primarchs that you can totally do whatever you want with! Make up the story yourself!
A few years pass.
GW: Never mind, Leman Russ killed them all and the other Primarchs watched, can't be your dudes anymore.
Sorry, this one always got on my nerves like nothing else...
except we don't know Russ killed them. they've been pretty vague (to the point of sillyness) with the missing primarchs
Not exactly. We know Russ and his Legion put down one of the two missing legions and its Primarch. The other... not really sure.
It is looking like Russ exterminated one and the other was wholey wiped out in the Ragdan Xenocide.
We don't know that Russ wiped out one of the missing legions. Where does it say that? That wasn't stated in Prospero Burns. Is there another book that spells this out?
It's implies Russ had a hand in sanctioning other legions in the past but it's HARDLY stated outright he did. For all we know all those referances are to the "Night of the Wolf"
Finally! Nobody ever seems to think that "other legion" whose name is never mentioned was the World Eaters.
Russ was sent to sanction the World Eaters, Russ got whupped by Angron but the Space Wolves held every World Eater in the vicinity hostage until Angron let Russ go.
Both Primarchs claim victory both secretly believe they got beat. The Space Wolves on the other hand can claim they beat the World Eaters regardless of their Primarch's views on the matter.
I don't break the rules but I'll bend them as far as they'll go.
His pattern of returning alive after being declared dead occurred often enough during Cain's career that the Munitorum made a special ruling that Ciaphas Cain is to never be considered dead, despite evidence to the contrary.
Kid_Kyoto wrote: Um Dorns skeleton is hanging in the Imperial Fist battle barge (per the novel Space Marine). The captains use it for skrimshaw practice.
Suffice to say if he's alive he must be pretty pissed by now.
Retconned; now they have the bones of his hand(s?), that being all that was recovered from the Black Legion ship where he vanished.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
BDconrad wrote: GW: Hey guys, there are two missing Primarchs that you can totally do whatever you want with! Make up the story yourself!
A few years pass.
GW: Never mind, Leman Russ killed them all and the other Primarchs watched, can't be your dudes anymore.
Sorry, this one always got on my nerves like nothing else...
You missed out twenty years of the fans: "Hey, you haven't told us what happened to these two guys. You suck!"
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/02/23 12:37:32
BDconrad wrote: GW: Hey guys, there are two missing Primarchs that you can totally do whatever you want with! Make up the story yourself!
A few years pass.
GW: Never mind, Leman Russ killed them all and the other Primarchs watched, can't be your dudes anymore.
Sorry, this one always got on my nerves like nothing else...
except we don't know Russ killed them. they've been pretty vague (to the point of sillyness) with the missing primarchs
Not exactly. We know Russ and his Legion put down one of the two missing legions and its Primarch. The other... not really sure.
It is looking like Russ exterminated one and the other was wholey wiped out in the Ragdan Xenocide.
We don't know that Russ wiped out one of the missing legions. Where does it say that? That wasn't stated in Prospero Burns. Is there another book that spells this out?
It's implies Russ had a hand in sanctioning other legions in the past but it's HARDLY stated outright he did. For all we know all those referances are to the "Night of the Wolf"
Finally! Nobody ever seems to think that "other legion" whose name is never mentioned was the World Eaters.
Russ was sent to sanction the World Eaters, Russ got whupped by Angron but the Space Wolves held every World Eater in the vicinity hostage until Angron let Russ go.
Both Primarchs claim victory both secretly believe they got beat. The Space Wolves on the other hand can claim they beat the World Eaters regardless of their Primarch's views on the matter.
Actually they didn 't during their duel Angron and Russ were surrounded by space wolfs and they both knew that if Angron killed Russ, his men would shoot him down.
In the battle itself more space wolfs fell than world eaters, but the we couldn't break through to Angron.
flyingthruwater wrote: Anything Matt Ward has had anything to do with... Dude would struggle to write a kids cartoon never mind anything with any depth at all
You know, I think he could actually be a decent cartoon writer. His stuff is over the top (suitable for cartoons) but he does try to approach interesting themes and ideas (such as Draigo and his Sisyphean experience in the Warp).
You're right, "biotech" and living weapons is such a silly scifi trope that one should always mercilessly mock it. Biological matter-to-energy conversion is too inefficient, living stuff would be dead stuff before a hive fleet got anywhere and the bugs would collapse and die in droves if the environment they were sent into - without suits - was the slightest bit off from what they need. Not that they'd be sent anywhere from a dead hive fleet, ofc, living matter just doesn't react well to cosmic radiation.
They don't even have the excuse of being demons from beyond our dimension.
IOW "These extragalactic beings don't conform to what we as humans know about physics so therefore they're stupid."
No.
"Tyranids could never live through space travel as a biological life form."
Cue Space Marines fighting in Space. Without helmets.
Clearly, humanity has surpassed all life in all galaxies, even those completely alien.
A bolter fires and a Necron succumbs. His corpse rises up as a poxwalker much to the horror of his comrades. Then, to everyone's surprise his corpse rises again as a fully functionality necron. The necron and the poxwalker stare at each other, both wondering which of them is the clone.
The way Imperium is often treated as a single monolithic nation state, Even though it's supposed to be a feudal empire like the Empire from Fantasy that it's based on.
The Feudal aspect is just be a great way to justify all the tabletop Imperium-vs-Imperium fights, as, say, a regions imperial kingdoms and guilds wrangle combatants to fight for them over who gets the writ to collect imperial tithes.
You're right, "biotech" and living weapons is such a silly scifi trope that one should always mercilessly mock it. Biological matter-to-energy conversion is too inefficient, living stuff would be dead stuff before a hive fleet got anywhere and the bugs would collapse and die in droves if the environment they were sent into - without suits - was the slightest bit off from what they need. Not that they'd be sent anywhere from a dead hive fleet, ofc, living matter just doesn't react well to cosmic radiation.
They don't even have the excuse of being demons from beyond our dimension.
Are you joking? Tyranids are the most rational faction. Everybody else is effin humanoid in form and demeanor.
If biotech aliens is a trope, what are orks, elves, killer robots from outer space and demons from hell?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/08/08 12:48:01
BDconrad wrote: GW: Hey guys, there are two missing Primarchs that you can totally do whatever you want with! Make up the story yourself!
A few years pass.
GW: Never mind, Leman Russ killed them all and the other Primarchs watched, can't be your dudes anymore.
Sorry, this one always got on my nerves like nothing else...
except we don't know Russ killed them. they've been pretty vague (to the point of sillyness) with the missing primarchs
Not exactly. We know Russ and his Legion put down one of the two missing legions and its Primarch. The other... not really sure.
It is looking like Russ exterminated one and the other was wholey wiped out in the Ragdan Xenocide.
We don't know that Russ wiped out one of the missing legions. Where does it say that? That wasn't stated in Prospero Burns. Is there another book that spells this out?
First Heretic:
"Magnus didn’t share the amusement. His lone eye was a deep, arctic blue as it fixed upon Lorgar. ‘He did. The Space Wolves are a spiritual Legion, in their own stunted and blind way. Fenris is an unmerciful cradle, and it breeds such things in them. Russ knows that, though he lacks the intelligence to give it voice. In-stead, he swore that he’d already lost two brothers, and had no desire to lose a third.’‘Two already lost.’ Lorgar looked back to the city. ‘I still recall how they—’‘Enough,’ warned Magnus. ‘Honour the oath you took that day.’‘You all find it so easy to forget the past. None of you ever wish to speak of what was lost. But could you do it again?’ Lorgar met his brother’s eyes. ‘Could you stand with Horus or Fulgrim, and never again speak my name purely because of a promise?’Magnus wouldn’t be drawn into this. ‘The Word Bearers will not walk the same paths as the forgotten and the purged. I trust you, Lorgar. Already, there’s talk that compliance was achieved on Forty-Seven Sixteen with laudable speed. Settler fleets are en route, are they not?"
"Argel Tal still hadn’t left Guilliman’s pod. ‘We do not know for certain if our actions here would change the future.’‘Are some chances not worth taking?’ asked the Chaplain.‘Some are. This one is not.’‘But the Eleventh Legion—’‘Is expunged from Imperial record for good reason. As is the Second. I’m not saying I don’t feel temptation creeping over me, brother. A single sword thrust piercing that pod, and we’d unwrite a shameful future.’Dagotal cleared his throat. ‘And deny the Ultramarines a significant boost in recruitment numbers.’Xaphen regarded him with emotionless eyes, seeming to weigh the merit of such a thing.‘What?’ Dagotal asked the others. ‘You were thinking it, too. It’s no secret.’‘Those are just rumours,’ Torgal grunted. The assault sergeant didn’t sound particularly certain.‘Perhaps, perhaps not. The Thirteenth definitely swelled to eclipse all the other Legions around the time the Second and Eleventh were “forgotten” by Imperial archives.’
Enough of this insipid conjecture, came the disembodied voice again"
Prospero Burns, Russ to Hawzer:
‘Never is a long time, skjald,’ he replies. ‘I’m tough, but I’m not that tough. Just because something’s never happened, it doesn’t mean it never will.’ ‘There’s a first time for everything.’ ‘Exactly,’ he grunts.
‘The unprecedented. Like… Astartes fighting Astartes? Like the Rout being called to sanction another Legion?’ ‘That?’ he answers. He laughs, but it is a sad sound. ‘Hjolda, no. That’s not unprecedented.’
I am lost for a reply. I am never sure when he is joking. We are looking towards the forest line. The first flakes of snow are fluttering down. ‘Are there wolves on Fenris?’ I ask. ‘Go and look for yourself,’ he tells me. ‘Go on"
There are lots of hints that the 6th legion done them in, nothing concrete though.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2018/08/08 19:25:01
You're right, "biotech" and living weapons is such a silly scifi trope that one should always mercilessly mock it. Biological matter-to-energy conversion is too inefficient, living stuff would be dead stuff before a hive fleet got anywhere and the bugs would collapse and die in droves if the environment they were sent into - without suits - was the slightest bit off from what they need. Not that they'd be sent anywhere from a dead hive fleet, ofc, living matter just doesn't react well to cosmic radiation.
They don't even have the excuse of being demons from beyond our dimension.
IOW "These extragalactic beings don't conform to what we as humans know about physics so therefore they're stupid."
No.
"Tyranids could never live through space travel as a biological life form."
Cue Space Marines fighting in Space. Without helmets.
Clearly, humanity has surpassed all life in all galaxies, even those completely alien.
I wouldn't really count Primarchs for that discussion, but theres a difference between a godlike being fighting in space for a couple of hours vs what Tyranids do...
CaptainStabby wrote: If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote: BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote: Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote: ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
"The hive fleet was descending upon the planet all powerfull, and nothing seemed to be able to stop them. But the very last moment, one brave sergeant managed a one-in-a-million shot in the eye of the X (old one/tyrant/swarmlord etc). The beast was dead and without its synaptic powers the whole tyranid army destroyed itself and also a couple of leviathans exploded and the whole Hive Fleet passed into oblivion."
Repeat for the next hive fleet.
Not true, the Tardigrade is a biological micro-animal that can survive in space, it hibernates, it can survive the extreme radiation and heat as well as sub 0 temperatures. That's why one theory of life on mars is that the tardigrade actually brought life to earth on a comets. The only major thing that is beyond the physics is the fact that they are exoskeletons, the weight would crush them, though its possible that they have a new type of physiology that allows them to hold up such weight etc. but Its scifi you have to suspend belief its a universe with daemons and psykers, I mean how realistic can you expect it will be... In reality though, we are the only examples of life, life elsewhere will probably similar to ours but we have no idea what life could be like elsewhere, the only life we have seen is carbon base, we have no idea about the capabilities of other forms of life.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/08/09 01:00:20
They brought back Sigmar and Nagash in Fantasy. There's no reason to think they won't do the same to all the Primachs, even dead ones but not Horus because he is super-dead and it breaks the whole lore if Horus comes back.
bibotot wrote: They brought back Sigmar and Nagash in Fantasy. There's no reason to think they won't do the same to all the Primachs, even dead ones but not Horus because he is super-dead and it breaks the whole lore if Horus comes back.
BDconrad wrote: GW: Hey guys, there are two missing Primarchs that you can totally do whatever you want with! Make up the story yourself!
A few years pass.
GW: Never mind, Leman Russ killed them all and the other Primarchs watched, can't be your dudes anymore.
Sorry, this one always got on my nerves like nothing else...
except we don't know Russ killed them. they've been pretty vague (to the point of sillyness) with the missing primarchs
Not exactly. We know Russ and his Legion put down one of the two missing legions and its Primarch. The other... not really sure.
It is looking like Russ exterminated one and the other was wholey wiped out in the Ragdan Xenocide.
We don't know that Russ wiped out one of the missing legions. Where does it say that? That wasn't stated in Prospero Burns. Is there another book that spells this out?
First Heretic:
"Magnus didn’t share the amusement. His lone eye was a deep, arctic blue as it fixed upon Lorgar. ‘He did. The Space Wolves are a spiritual Legion, in their own stunted and blind way. Fenris is an unmerciful cradle, and it breeds such things in them. Russ knows that, though he lacks the intelligence to give it voice. In-stead, he swore that he’d already lost two brothers, and had no desire to lose a third.’‘Two already lost.’ Lorgar looked back to the city. ‘I still recall how they—’‘Enough,’ warned Magnus. ‘Honour the oath you took that day.’‘You all find it so easy to forget the past. None of you ever wish to speak of what was lost. But could you do it again?’ Lorgar met his brother’s eyes. ‘Could you stand with Horus or Fulgrim, and never again speak my name purely because of a promise?’Magnus wouldn’t be drawn into this. ‘The Word Bearers will not walk the same paths as the forgotten and the purged. I trust you, Lorgar. Already, there’s talk that compliance was achieved on Forty-Seven Sixteen with laudable speed. Settler fleets are en route, are they not?"
"Argel Tal still hadn’t left Guilliman’s pod. ‘We do not know for certain if our actions here would change the future.’‘Are some chances not worth taking?’ asked the Chaplain.‘Some are. This one is not.’‘But the Eleventh Legion—’‘Is expunged from Imperial record for good reason. As is the Second. I’m not saying I don’t feel temptation creeping over me, brother. A single sword thrust piercing that pod, and we’d unwrite a shameful future.’Dagotal cleared his throat. ‘And deny the Ultramarines a significant boost in recruitment numbers.’Xaphen regarded him with emotionless eyes, seeming to weigh the merit of such a thing.‘What?’ Dagotal asked the others. ‘You were thinking it, too. It’s no secret.’‘Those are just rumours,’ Torgal grunted. The assault sergeant didn’t sound particularly certain.‘Perhaps, perhaps not. The Thirteenth definitely swelled to eclipse all the other Legions around the time the Second and Eleventh were “forgotten” by Imperial archives.’
Enough of this insipid conjecture, came the disembodied voice again"
Prospero Burns, Russ to Hawzer:
‘Never is a long time, skjald,’ he replies. ‘I’m tough, but I’m not that tough. Just because something’s never happened, it doesn’t mean it never will.’ ‘There’s a first time for everything.’ ‘Exactly,’ he grunts.
‘The unprecedented. Like… Astartes fighting Astartes? Like the Rout being called to sanction another Legion?’ ‘That?’ he answers. He laughs, but it is a sad sound. ‘Hjolda, no. That’s not unprecedented.’
I am lost for a reply. I am never sure when he is joking. We are looking towards the forest line. The first flakes of snow are fluttering down. ‘Are there wolves on Fenris?’ I ask. ‘Go and look for yourself,’ he tells me. ‘Go on"
There are lots of hints that the 6th legion done them in, nothing concrete though.
none of those hints are partiuclarly good ones, the first quote simply is Russ stating he'd rather not lose another sibling, reasonably innocent even if there are rumors and suspicions yes. the second quote proves nothing, especially as we have word of god that the Ultramarines rumor is false and just two salty word bearers talking gak.
The third definatly makes it sound like the Wolves may have killed the other two legions but... is it? we know Russ and the wolves fought Angron and the world eaters in the "Night of the Wolf" we also know Russ and the Lion fought, so there are other explinations for it beyond "he definatly killed those two legions"
So yeah It's certainly one interpretation, but it may not be the facts of the matter
Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two
BDconrad wrote: GW: Hey guys, there are two missing Primarchs that you can totally do whatever you want with! Make up the story yourself!
A few years pass.
GW: Never mind, Leman Russ killed them all and the other Primarchs watched, can't be your dudes anymore.
Sorry, this one always got on my nerves like nothing else...
except we don't know Russ killed them. they've been pretty vague (to the point of sillyness) with the missing primarchs
Not exactly. We know Russ and his Legion put down one of the two missing legions and its Primarch. The other... not really sure.
It is looking like Russ exterminated one and the other was wholey wiped out in the Ragdan Xenocide.
We don't know that Russ wiped out one of the missing legions. Where does it say that? That wasn't stated in Prospero Burns. Is there another book that spells this out?
First Heretic:
"Magnus didn’t share the amusement. His lone eye was a deep, arctic blue as it fixed upon Lorgar. ‘He did. The Space Wolves are a spiritual Legion, in their own stunted and blind way. Fenris is an unmerciful cradle, and it breeds such things in them. Russ knows that, though he lacks the intelligence to give it voice. In-stead, he swore that he’d already lost two brothers, and had no desire to lose a third.’‘Two already lost.’ Lorgar looked back to the city. ‘I still recall how they—’‘Enough,’ warned Magnus. ‘Honour the oath you took that day.’‘You all find it so easy to forget the past. None of you ever wish to speak of what was lost. But could you do it again?’ Lorgar met his brother’s eyes. ‘Could you stand with Horus or Fulgrim, and never again speak my name purely because of a promise?’Magnus wouldn’t be drawn into this. ‘The Word Bearers will not walk the same paths as the forgotten and the purged. I trust you, Lorgar. Already, there’s talk that compliance was achieved on Forty-Seven Sixteen with laudable speed. Settler fleets are en route, are they not?"
"Argel Tal still hadn’t left Guilliman’s pod. ‘We do not know for certain if our actions here would change the future.’‘Are some chances not worth taking?’ asked the Chaplain.‘Some are. This one is not.’‘But the Eleventh Legion—’‘Is expunged from Imperial record for good reason. As is the Second. I’m not saying I don’t feel temptation creeping over me, brother. A single sword thrust piercing that pod, and we’d unwrite a shameful future.’Dagotal cleared his throat. ‘And deny the Ultramarines a significant boost in recruitment numbers.’Xaphen regarded him with emotionless eyes, seeming to weigh the merit of such a thing.‘What?’ Dagotal asked the others. ‘You were thinking it, too. It’s no secret.’‘Those are just rumours,’ Torgal grunted. The assault sergeant didn’t sound particularly certain.‘Perhaps, perhaps not. The Thirteenth definitely swelled to eclipse all the other Legions around the time the Second and Eleventh were “forgotten” by Imperial archives.’
Enough of this insipid conjecture, came the disembodied voice again"
Prospero Burns, Russ to Hawzer:
‘Never is a long time, skjald,’ he replies. ‘I’m tough, but I’m not that tough. Just because something’s never happened, it doesn’t mean it never will.’ ‘There’s a first time for everything.’ ‘Exactly,’ he grunts.
‘The unprecedented. Like… Astartes fighting Astartes? Like the Rout being called to sanction another Legion?’ ‘That?’ he answers. He laughs, but it is a sad sound. ‘Hjolda, no. That’s not unprecedented.’
I am lost for a reply. I am never sure when he is joking. We are looking towards the forest line. The first flakes of snow are fluttering down. ‘Are there wolves on Fenris?’ I ask. ‘Go and look for yourself,’ he tells me. ‘Go on"
There are lots of hints that the 6th legion done them in, nothing concrete though.
none of those hints are partiuclarly good ones, the first quote simply is Russ stating he'd rather not lose another sibling, reasonably innocent even if there are rumors and suspicions yes. the second quote proves nothing, especially as we have word of god that the Ultramarines rumor is false and just two salty word bearers talking gak.
The third definatly makes it sound like the Wolves may have killed the other two legions but... is it? we know Russ and the wolves fought Angron and the world eaters in the "Night of the Wolf" we also know Russ and the Lion fought, so there are other explinations for it beyond "he definatly killed those two legions"
So yeah It's certainly one interpretation, but it may not be the facts of the matter
I didn't say it was proof, I said they were 'hints'. The WB's said themselves the Ultramarine thing was a rumour though how do you know it was false, you can't know that and if you use the 'least mutation' argument, one or both of the missing legions could have had very low gene-seed mutation rate.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2018/08/09 02:21:24
BDconrad wrote: GW: Hey guys, there are two missing Primarchs that you can totally do whatever you want with! Make up the story yourself!
A few years pass.
GW: Never mind, Leman Russ killed them all and the other Primarchs watched, can't be your dudes anymore.
Sorry, this one always got on my nerves like nothing else...
except we don't know Russ killed them. they've been pretty vague (to the point of sillyness) with the missing primarchs
Not exactly. We know Russ and his Legion put down one of the two missing legions and its Primarch. The other... not really sure.
It is looking like Russ exterminated one and the other was wholey wiped out in the Ragdan Xenocide.
We don't know that Russ wiped out one of the missing legions. Where does it say that? That wasn't stated in Prospero Burns. Is there another book that spells this out?
First Heretic:
"Magnus didn’t share the amusement. His lone eye was a deep, arctic blue as it fixed upon Lorgar. ‘He did. The Space Wolves are a spiritual Legion, in their own stunted and blind way. Fenris is an unmerciful cradle, and it breeds such things in them. Russ knows that, though he lacks the intelligence to give it voice. In-stead, he swore that he’d already lost two brothers, and had no desire to lose a third.’‘Two already lost.’ Lorgar looked back to the city. ‘I still recall how they—’‘Enough,’ warned Magnus. ‘Honour the oath you took that day.’‘You all find it so easy to forget the past. None of you ever wish to speak of what was lost. But could you do it again?’ Lorgar met his brother’s eyes. ‘Could you stand with Horus or Fulgrim, and never again speak my name purely because of a promise?’Magnus wouldn’t be drawn into this. ‘The Word Bearers will not walk the same paths as the forgotten and the purged. I trust you, Lorgar. Already, there’s talk that compliance was achieved on Forty-Seven Sixteen with laudable speed. Settler fleets are en route, are they not?"
"Argel Tal still hadn’t left Guilliman’s pod. ‘We do not know for certain if our actions here would change the future.’‘Are some chances not worth taking?’ asked the Chaplain.‘Some are. This one is not.’‘But the Eleventh Legion—’‘Is expunged from Imperial record for good reason. As is the Second. I’m not saying I don’t feel temptation creeping over me, brother. A single sword thrust piercing that pod, and we’d unwrite a shameful future.’Dagotal cleared his throat. ‘And deny the Ultramarines a significant boost in recruitment numbers.’Xaphen regarded him with emotionless eyes, seeming to weigh the merit of such a thing.‘What?’ Dagotal asked the others. ‘You were thinking it, too. It’s no secret.’‘Those are just rumours,’ Torgal grunted. The assault sergeant didn’t sound particularly certain.‘Perhaps, perhaps not. The Thirteenth definitely swelled to eclipse all the other Legions around the time the Second and Eleventh were “forgotten” by Imperial archives.’
Enough of this insipid conjecture, came the disembodied voice again"
Prospero Burns, Russ to Hawzer:
‘Never is a long time, skjald,’ he replies. ‘I’m tough, but I’m not that tough. Just because something’s never happened, it doesn’t mean it never will.’ ‘There’s a first time for everything.’ ‘Exactly,’ he grunts.
‘The unprecedented. Like… Astartes fighting Astartes? Like the Rout being called to sanction another Legion?’ ‘That?’ he answers. He laughs, but it is a sad sound. ‘Hjolda, no. That’s not unprecedented.’
I am lost for a reply. I am never sure when he is joking. We are looking towards the forest line. The first flakes of snow are fluttering down. ‘Are there wolves on Fenris?’ I ask. ‘Go and look for yourself,’ he tells me. ‘Go on"
There are lots of hints that the 6th legion done them in, nothing concrete though.
none of those hints are partiuclarly good ones, the first quote simply is Russ stating he'd rather not lose another sibling, reasonably innocent even if there are rumors and suspicions yes. the second quote proves nothing, especially as we have word of god that the Ultramarines rumor is false and just two salty word bearers talking gak.
The third definatly makes it sound like the Wolves may have killed the other two legions but... is it? we know Russ and the wolves fought Angron and the world eaters in the "Night of the Wolf" we also know Russ and the Lion fought, so there are other explinations for it beyond "he definatly killed those two legions"
So yeah It's certainly one interpretation, but it may not be the facts of the matter
I didn't say it was proof, I said they were 'hints'. The WB's said themselves the Ultramarine thing was a rumour though how do you know it was false, you can't know that and if you use the 'least mutation' argument, one or both of the missing legions could have had very low gene-seed mutation rate.
Because the author said so.
Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two
BDconrad wrote: GW: Hey guys, there are two missing Primarchs that you can totally do whatever you want with! Make up the story yourself!
A few years pass.
GW: Never mind, Leman Russ killed them all and the other Primarchs watched, can't be your dudes anymore.
Sorry, this one always got on my nerves like nothing else...
except we don't know Russ killed them. they've been pretty vague (to the point of sillyness) with the missing primarchs
Not exactly. We know Russ and his Legion put down one of the two missing legions and its Primarch. The other... not really sure.
It is looking like Russ exterminated one and the other was wholey wiped out in the Ragdan Xenocide.
We don't know that Russ wiped out one of the missing legions. Where does it say that? That wasn't stated in Prospero Burns. Is there another book that spells this out?
First Heretic:
"Magnus didn’t share the amusement. His lone eye was a deep, arctic blue as it fixed upon Lorgar. ‘He did. The Space Wolves are a spiritual Legion, in their own stunted and blind way. Fenris is an unmerciful cradle, and it breeds such things in them. Russ knows that, though he lacks the intelligence to give it voice. In-stead, he swore that he’d already lost two brothers, and had no desire to lose a third.’‘Two already lost.’ Lorgar looked back to the city. ‘I still recall how they—’‘Enough,’ warned Magnus. ‘Honour the oath you took that day.’‘You all find it so easy to forget the past. None of you ever wish to speak of what was lost. But could you do it again?’ Lorgar met his brother’s eyes. ‘Could you stand with Horus or Fulgrim, and never again speak my name purely because of a promise?’Magnus wouldn’t be drawn into this. ‘The Word Bearers will not walk the same paths as the forgotten and the purged. I trust you, Lorgar. Already, there’s talk that compliance was achieved on Forty-Seven Sixteen with laudable speed. Settler fleets are en route, are they not?"
"Argel Tal still hadn’t left Guilliman’s pod. ‘We do not know for certain if our actions here would change the future.’‘Are some chances not worth taking?’ asked the Chaplain.‘Some are. This one is not.’‘But the Eleventh Legion—’‘Is expunged from Imperial record for good reason. As is the Second. I’m not saying I don’t feel temptation creeping over me, brother. A single sword thrust piercing that pod, and we’d unwrite a shameful future.’Dagotal cleared his throat. ‘And deny the Ultramarines a significant boost in recruitment numbers.’Xaphen regarded him with emotionless eyes, seeming to weigh the merit of such a thing.‘What?’ Dagotal asked the others. ‘You were thinking it, too. It’s no secret.’‘Those are just rumours,’ Torgal grunted. The assault sergeant didn’t sound particularly certain.‘Perhaps, perhaps not. The Thirteenth definitely swelled to eclipse all the other Legions around the time the Second and Eleventh were “forgotten” by Imperial archives.’
Enough of this insipid conjecture, came the disembodied voice again"
Prospero Burns, Russ to Hawzer:
‘Never is a long time, skjald,’ he replies. ‘I’m tough, but I’m not that tough. Just because something’s never happened, it doesn’t mean it never will.’ ‘There’s a first time for everything.’ ‘Exactly,’ he grunts.
‘The unprecedented. Like… Astartes fighting Astartes? Like the Rout being called to sanction another Legion?’ ‘That?’ he answers. He laughs, but it is a sad sound. ‘Hjolda, no. That’s not unprecedented.’
I am lost for a reply. I am never sure when he is joking. We are looking towards the forest line. The first flakes of snow are fluttering down. ‘Are there wolves on Fenris?’ I ask. ‘Go and look for yourself,’ he tells me. ‘Go on"
There are lots of hints that the 6th legion done them in, nothing concrete though.
none of those hints are partiuclarly good ones, the first quote simply is Russ stating he'd rather not lose another sibling, reasonably innocent even if there are rumors and suspicions yes. the second quote proves nothing, especially as we have word of god that the Ultramarines rumor is false and just two salty word bearers talking gak.
The third definatly makes it sound like the Wolves may have killed the other two legions but... is it? we know Russ and the wolves fought Angron and the world eaters in the "Night of the Wolf" we also know Russ and the Lion fought, so there are other explinations for it beyond "he definatly killed those two legions"
So yeah It's certainly one interpretation, but it may not be the facts of the matter
I didn't say it was proof, I said they were 'hints'. The WB's said themselves the Ultramarine thing was a rumour though how do you know it was false, you can't know that and if you use the 'least mutation' argument, one or both of the missing legions could have had very low gene-seed mutation rate.
Q - I've always wanted to know with all Black Library authors how much the stories main details are already decide? Because there is no way that an author can just include such a massive spoiler such as The Ultramarines absorbing the missing legions without Black Library's say so.
A- ADB - Practically no details are already decided, unless it's a famous battle, or something. (In regards to the First Heretic revelation) Well, you probably shouldn't believe that, dude. The characters in the novels are just making guesses, or hinting at an unknowable truth. It's possibly true, sure, but as it stands right now, GW won't reveal the truth about those Legions; all hints in the Horus Heresy series are just possibilities. Black Library never tell us to do anything. That's not really how they work. They check facts, and where the Horus Heresy is concerned, we have regular (long) meetings to discuss the series with Games Workshop's Head of Intellectual Property.
So yeah, ADB outright said "DFO NOT BELIVE THAT"
Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two
Q - I've always wanted to know with all Black Library authors how much the stories main details are already decide? Because there is no way that an author can just include such a massive spoiler such as The Ultramarines absorbing the missing legions without Black Library's say so.
A- ADB - Practically no details are already decided, unless it's a famous battle, or something. (In regards to the First Heretic revelation) Well, you probably shouldn't believe that, dude. The characters in the novels are just making guesses, or hinting at an unknowable truth. It's possibly true, sure, but as it stands right now, GW won't reveal the truth about those Legions; all hints in the Horus Heresy series are just possibilities. Black Library never tell us to do anything. That's not really how they work. They check facts, and where the Horus Heresy is concerned, we have regular (long) meetings to discuss the series with Games Workshop's Head of Intellectual Property.
So yeah, ADB outright said "DFO NOT BELIVE THAT"
No he didn't lol. He says you 'probably' shouldn't believe that, but its a possibility, he just said don't take it as cannon.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/08/09 02:50:16
BrianDavion wrote: He's also said elsewhere he didn't intend for it to be anything more then jelous mutters of word bearers who refuse to give Gulliman his due
It wasn't written that way at all, it was an off-hand statement, it didn't put any shade on the Ultramarines at all, so I doubt that. Plus Guilliman wasn't even mentioned, had nothing to do with it.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/08/09 03:11:54
In the good old days the SM where police. There is a particularly good picture of 2 SM laying down the law on one artist with a canister of paint. I cannot help but feel all of this that have come later might not be for the better.
