Necrons NEW 8th ed. Codex tactica - [please post lists under spoilers]

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**v0iddrgn**

Do Tesla Destructors have more than 1 damage now???

**CthuluIsSpy**

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Immortals are only 5 points more for a MUCH better gun and a better save.

You can easily get a battalion with them too.
Its much harder to make a battalion in a low point game (sub 1k) with warriors.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

v0iddrgn wrote:
Do Tesla Destructors have more than 1 damage now???

No, doesn't look like it.

**vipoid**

I'm pleased to see that the Destroyer Lord has remained awful.

I'd hate to think that people might not have the privileged of admiring it on my shelf.

**Klowny**

I know how tough INdex Tomb blades were, I ran them extensively at tournaments, and due to points I had to mix and match 3+ and 5+, -1 to hit and get 4+ RP due to the cape-tek, while also shooting 2 shots apiece in sautekh after moving 20” is amazing

**vipoid**

Any thoughts on the Cryptek Canoptek Cloak?

**Azuza001**

Going through the video he put out, the obelisk doesnt get quantum shielding or an invulnerable save? But the tesseract vault does? If that's the case I am totally redoing my obelisk into a vault, it's so much better. I hope that isn't the case / this turns out to just not be updated yet.

**CthuluIsSpy**

vipoid wrote:
I'm pleased to see that the Destroyer Lord has remained awful.

I'd hate to think that people might not have the privileged of admiring it on my shelf.

Didn't he get like a 15 point price decrease? But yeah, he still isn't great.

**vipoid**

CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Didn't he get like a 15 point price decrease? But yeah, he still isn't great.

The issue is that he's a melee unit with relatively poor WS who is only able to buff a single, ranged unit.

IMO he really should have got the 'reroll 1s to wound' aura the regular Lord got. That way he'd both both buff his own melee ability a little and could also buff stuff like Wraiths and Scarabs.

**Klowny**

vipoid wrote:
Any thoughts on the Cryptek Canoptek Cloak?

Amazing imo.

Now destroyers and Tomb blades get that sweet 4+ rp, and considering how much more powerful our vehicles have gotten, especially in sautekh, given the buffs to QS through stratagems, and how insane the tesseract vault is now I plan to run 2-3 every game

**vipoid**

Klowny wrote:
vipoid wrote:
Any thoughts on the Cryptek Canoptek Cloak?

Amazing imo.

Now destroyers and Tomb blades get that sweet 4+ rp, and considering how much more powerful our vehicles have gotten, especially in sautekh, given the buffs to QS through stratagems, and how insane the tesseract vault is now I plan to run 2-3 every game

That's a good point. What do you think the best artefact(s) would be for a flying cryptek?

**Pyrothem**

issue is that he's a melee unit with relatively poor WS who is only able to buff a single, ranged unit.

IMO he really should have got the 'reroll 1s to wound' aura the regular Lord got. That way he'd both both buff his own melee ability a little and could also buff stuff like Wraiths and Scarabs.

With the artifact healing d3 on BOTH your turn and your opponents and a chance to pop back up TWICE with it and a Strat. I think he could find a way into some lists just like the saint is now.

**CthuluIsSpy**

Pyrothem wrote:

issue is that he's a melee unit with relatively poor WS who is only able to buff a single, ranged unit.

IMO he really should have got the 'reroll 1s to wound' aura the regular Lord got. That way he'd both both buff his own melee ability a little and could also buff stuff like Wraiths and Scarabs.

With the artifact healing d3 on BOTH your turn and your opponents and a chance to pop back up TWICE with it and a Strat. I think he could find a way into some lists just like the saint is now.

Yeah, that artifact seems to have been made specifically for him.
I think he's the only unit who can take a phylactery. Which is pretty dumb but there you go.

I like how there are ways to revive characters. Not quite saving entire units, but its a nice thing to have.
I think my favorite warlord trait might be Immortal Pride. It solves so many problems

**ThePie**

While immortals might be more effective fire power for thier points, i still believe 2 warrior blobs supported by an ghost ark (which apparantly can buff multiple squads at the same time now?) will make an amazing anvil to base your army around.

And what looks like the best way for necrons now to deal with toughness 8 targets? From what i can see we have plenty of ways now to deal with toughness 7 and below, like catacomb command barge with voidreaper, or c'tan shards etc.

**CthuluIsSpy**

ThePie wrote:
While immortals might be more effective fire power for thier points, i still believe 2 warrior blobs supported by an ghost ark (which apparantly can buff multiple squads at the same time now?) will make an amazing anvil to base your army around.

They do. It no longer specifies that it only affects one unit.

**Doctoralex**

Also even better now with Illuminor Szeras, who gets the auto-pass morale in 6" as a Warlord Trait.

**ThePie**

I guess making your warriors morale immune is better than regaining CP's on 5+, since you dont need to use stratagem instead.

This might actually make warriors really effective, since killing 20 of them in a single round without relying on morale losses is actually pretty hard, then 75% of them comes back.

Silver tide is back in business?

**Doctoralex**

ThePie wrote:
I guess making your warriors morale immune is better than regaining CP's on 5+, since you dont need to use stratagem instead.

This might actually make warriors really effective, since killing 20 of them in a single round without relying on morale losses is actually pretty hard, then 75% of them comes back.

Silver tide is back in business?

mmm depends, theres always the issue that your enemy cán hose down a blob of 20 Warriors if they want to. Though to be honest, if there isn't another threat nearby then you did something wrong.

And also, if only one model remains, you can probably only get a certain amount of new Warriors around him in coherency. Even worse if they surround that one lonely Warrior in combat.

**Arachnofiend**

I'm curious to see how well a 6-man unit of destroyers being fed Extermination Protocols would fare for anti-tank; if my math is right you should be able to do a pretty respectable chunk of damage just through sheer weight of rerolls. It's a much more survivable unit than the 3-man heavy D squad too.

**Therion**

Arachnofiend wrote:
I'm curious to see how well a 6-man unit of destroyers being fed Extermination Protocols would fare for anti-tank; if my math is right you should be able to do a pretty respectable chunk of damage just through sheer weight of rerolls. It's a much more survivable unit than the 3-man heavy D squad too.

Very well I’d say, The stratagem for Destroyers is amazing, and you can deep strike them all. In fact, 18 Nephrekh Destroyers are very tempting as they are alpha strike protected due to the deep strike stratagem. They are infantry too, so they can benefit from MWBD, and they get automatic cover saves in area terrain. They also benefit from Chronometron. So these guys shoot crazy well, have 4+ rp, 2+/5++ and are alpha protected.

18 might not even be too many. They work like Obliterators.

**Doctoralex**

Arachnofiend wrote:
I'm curious to see how well a 6-man unit of destroyers being fed Extermination Protocols would fare for anti-tank; if my math is right you should be able to do a pretty respectable chunk of damage just through sheer weight of rerolls. It's a much more survivable unit than the 3-man heavy D squad too.

Could work, though they still only have 24" range. Can be difficult to get those predators in the back.

I'd say take Destroyers for Anti-MEQ and some light-anti tank in a pinch, and then take the buffed DDA for proper anti-tank
.

**vipoid**

Pyrothem wrote:
With the artifact healing d3 on BOTH your turn and your opponents and a chance to pop back up TWICE with it and a Strat. I think he could find a way into some lists just like the saint is now.

The difference is that the Saint has 6 attacks at WS2+ (at basically the same profile as the Destroyer Lord's Warscythe), gives an automatic extra Act of Faith (allowing her to take an extra movement, combat or shooting phase, or heal d3 wounds), has an extra wound, has a better armour save, has a Heavy Flamer, has a better aura and automatically revives on a 2+ once per game on full wounds and anywhere on the battlefield. And that's before we even get into her auto-reviving, bullet-sponge guards. The D. Lord has more touchness, but in every other way the Saint is vastly superior.

All that said, I think you're right in that the Nanoscarab Casket is probably the best artefact for the Destroyer Lord. Given that both revivals are on a 4+ and that he can't teleport to safety like the Saint can, I'd probably be more cautious with him. However, it might make it less risky for him to charge out, which is nice.

I like my Destroyer Lord conversion so I'll probably be trying this out, regardless.

It's just sad that he seems like a model with such wasted potential.

**Therion**

ThePie wrote:
I guess making your warriors morale immune is better than regaining CP's on 5+, since you dont need to use stratagem instead.

This might actually make warriors really effective, since killing 20 of them in a single round without relying on morale losses is actually pretty hard, then 75% of them comes back.

Silver tide is back in business?

It’s an awesome WL trait, but no. Warriors are too expensive and the 20 strong blobs will die before RP. These aren’t 4p Cultists who roll 30 strong and ALL come back for CPs if you dont kill them all.

Just try to build a list with 700 or more points in Warriors. It’s terrible.

I’m just taking minimum units of Immortals/Deathmarks and maxing out on the useful units.

**Fenris-77**

One HQ and three min squads of Warriors is, what, 240-ish? (Warriors come in min 5?, I haven't even looked at anything less than 20 since the index dropped). I think I might pay that for 3 CPs in a 2K list. Objective campers and you need CPs from somewhere...

It's not great for RP, but I suspect that MSU will get more mileage out of RP given the lesser chance of focus fire. Sucks for MWBD, but there are better targets for that anyway.

**Arachnofiend**

Warriors come in minimum squads of 10. If you want a min squad to sit back and camp objectives then Immortals are both cheaper and tougher.

**vipoid**

Given the changes in cost, any thoughts on Warscythe vs Staff of Light for HQs?

**Acehilator**

Regarding Warriors vs Immortals, I just did the math myself. I guess slightly off-topic, but I think more potentially new players are checking this forum now and are going to in the following weeks.

Basic math, but can anybody check it please? Getting late over here.

Defensive - bolter fire/MEQ statline needed to wipe out a unit:
vs Warriors : 120 attacks - 80 hits - 40 wounds - 20 damage
vs Immortals: 90 attacks - 60 hits - 30 wounds - 10 damage

So it takes 33% more attacks to wipe the unit which is 41% more expensive. Slight numerical advantage for Immortals, but higher total volume of fire needed against Warriors, so pretty much a tie.

Offensive - damage output vs MEQ (rapid fire range - Mephrit code bonus active - MWBD active):
Gauss Flayer : 40 shots - 33,34 hits - 16,67 wounds - 11,12 damage
Gauss Blaster: 20 shots - 16,67 hits - 11,12 wounds - 9,26 damage
Tesla Carbine: 20 shots - 16,67 base hits + (6,67 x 2 = 13,34 Tesla hits) = 30 total hits - 20 wounds - 10 damage

10% less damage output from the much cheaper unit, with the bonus that the Tesla is an Assault weapon instead of Rapid Fire, so damage dropoff is not nearly as severe at 13"+ range, and can be fired after advancing in a pinch.
With the "Phaerons Will" stratagem you can get 2x MWBD, so two units of Immortals are a given.

Offensive - damage output vs MEQ (rapid fire range - Mephrit code bonus active - no MWBD):
Gauss Flayer : 40 shots - 26,67 hits - 13,34 wounds - 8,89 damage
Gauss Blaster: 20 shots - 13,34 hits - 8,89 wounds - 7,41 damage
Tesla Carbine: 20 shots - 13,34 base hits + (3,34 x 2 = 6,67 Tesla hits) = 20 total hits - 13,34 wounds - 6,67 damage

Advantage for Warriors, but still not enough considering the point cost difference. Only worth it when firing at units with a non-advoidable -1 to hit like Tyranids with Malantrophe/Venomtrophe cover or Eldar Rangers, I guess. No exploding Tesla hits means a sharp damage dropoff, but the advantages of Assault vs Rapid Fire weaponry still stand. So pretty much no reason to use Warriors at all, it seems. Shame for an iconic unit, but yay because less models to paint and Immortals look awesome.

Looks like Deceiver/Veil of Darkness bomb with 3x Immortals is a GO.

/edit: Had an error with Tesla hits, fixed it... general result remains the same.

**ThePie**

I guess the worth of warriors lie in the ghost ark, and would the Sautekh dynasty make them better being able to assault and shoot?
But dammit advancing up with a big block warriors while harassing the enemy with deepstriking immortals sound like such fun.

And is the catacomb command barge worth it? Seems like a good option to have one and use the voidreaper with it, being able to take on any non vehicle unit and being able to hunt down fliers.

**Red Corsair**

MinscS2 wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Lychguard aren't resilient on their own except to D1 weapons. On everything with multi-damage, Flayed Ones win.
That's important to note don't you think. This isn't like with Primaris Marines and the fact that a few of them aren't much more expensive than 1 wound Counterparts.

LG are much more resilient against D1 weaponry and small arms fire, and about as resilient against things like plasma due to their 4++.

Red Corsair wrote:

I mean what on earth are you expecting? A space marine is 13ppm and is arguably worse for its price since it lacks focus. FO are a 3 attack space marine with a worse save but reanimate, deepsrike and a fear debuff. Oh and with shredding melee weapons. That is about fair for 4 ppm more. Especially when you consider the dynastic codes are much more useful all around then many other races traits. just the deepstrike ability alone is probably worth the increase in points over a normal warrior.

Any argument where one compares something to a tactical marine and says "looks good compared to this" falls flat on it's own. Tacticals are regarded as trash by most SM players (at least on these boards).
And they're more like Scouts with combat blades than tactical marines, don't you agree? Same save and both have deployment shenanigans. Suddenly we're looking at more than a 4ppm increase however.

Red Corsair wrote:

Exactly, Anarkyr nearby and Novohk for example makes them crazy good. Back up to 4 attacks each, but hitting on 2's with shredd. Rerolling misses as well. Sure 20 is 340 but your talking about now only needing an 8" charge (MWBD) and having 80 attacks hitting on 2's rerolling with shredding s4 combat weapons. That unit will delete whatever it touches. Thats ~78 hits and verse GEQ it translates to 70 wounds before saves...

Sweet, so all I need is a named character and/or a specific Dynasty in order to make this 340 pts unit amazing at killing chaff and GEQ's? I'm convinced.

Ah I get it now, your one of those gamers that literally needs to have a dark reaper level unit in order to be happy... It's the only explanation for willfully acting like a brick wall. If you think a 17 point model should be killing everything in sight without any other unit synergy or tactics then that really does speak volumes.

Apparently taking combat crons from the combat code is unappealing to you? I guess you want them to be great using the 3 shooting ones. Such a daft complaint. And btw you don't need a named character lol. You could just as easily use a generic overlord. What did you want them to be killing BTW? Fething riptides? They have always been chaf mulchers. They are harder to use then warriors but far more efficient if you know how to.

**Odrankt**

Catacomb Command barge is pretty good. 2+ WS and BS. Use Sautekh so that it ignores the -1 modifier for Heavy Weapons letting you shoot the Gauss Cannon at 2+. Or, if you take it in Mephrit detachment and make it your Warlord you can give it Merciless Tyrant to let its Voltaic Staff (SoL Mephrit relic upgrade) and Tesla Cannon to hit Enemy characters with 10 wounds or less.

It probably one of the best HQs we have due to it being any Dynasty, having good movement, QS, Good toughness and can be given a 4+ invul or 5+++ FnP.

**Acehilator**

@ThePie: Sautekh only turns Gauss Flayers into Assault 1 weapons, so total number of shots is the same for both units. With MWBD you have Tesla exploding on 6s even when advancing.

Offense - vs MEQ (advancing, no Mephrit code bonus, MWBD active):
Gauss Flayer : 20 shots - 13,34 hits - 6,67 wounds - 3,34 damage
Tesla Carbine: 20 shots - 13,34 hits (3,34 x 2 = 6,67 Tesla hits) = 20 total hits - 13,34 wounds - 4,45 damage

Nope. No dice, at least not for offensive purposes.

If the Ghost Ark makes enough difference from a defensive standpoint, not sure. Like I said, I started checking out Necron stuff in earnest yesterday, I am new to this

(Tyranid player)

/edit: Made an error with Tesla hits, fixed it. Result stays the same.