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 Sim-Life wrote:
There's a difference in the aesthetics between Centurions and a bald women wearing a sack.

Yeah, sure. Bald repentia wearing a sack is ugly in a meaningful, intentional way that works wonder to carry the theme of the model. They are fallen, broken people, how course they are ugly. It's that ugliness that makes the miniature striking and relevant. It's what makes them truthful to the theme.
Centurion are just ugly in a meaningless way, while they tried to look bad-ass and imposing.

 Marmatag wrote:
Or should we have "They of Battle" where you really can't tell if it's a man or woman?

Space Marines are some “They of Battle”. Yet suggest that the lore could be updated to have half of them be women and people go all up in arms, even though that wouldn't change a thing about the models.
Yeah, apparently you don't need to make the gender obvious on the armor to have people care about it.

 Fafnir wrote:
LunaWolvesLoyalist doesn't want Sisters of Battle. They want reasonable female characters.

You can have models that don't have boobplate or anything like it, and still are completely unreasonable.

Fast pointy ear wrote:
Eh... You're dealing with miniatures roughly an inch big. Hair is obvious, boobs are obvious but the other physical differences like height, cleaner limbs, wider hips and facial structure aren't obvious without being emphasised to the point of being a caricature.

https://victoriaminiatures.com/collections/regiments-of-the-galaxys-finest
You can .
(Since I know new Sisters are coming which means I'll likely go back to 40k I'm planning to buy some of those splendid female IG to ally with!)

 Mmmpi wrote:
So, something just hit me. I don't think it's come up in the various conversations about the sisters' aesthetic, but the boob plate and corsetesque armor isn't there for sexy (whether it is or not is in the eye of the beholder). It's just more of the same that the ministorum puts out. The holy human form. The sisters are supposed to be obviously female because we're supposed to exalt in the female form, not as in 'hey sexy', but from a sense of ideal purity.

Thats actually something that didn't come to mind for me until you said it. as i understand it, the armor was commissioned by Vandire, but now i wonder how much input the original Daughters of the emperor had in the design. sure, after the formation of the sisters of battle the fact it's designed as such fits in with the Decree Passive (clearly female armor, and all), and on a lore standpoint it seems the faction keeps use and maintains what equipment they get quite consistently, but i hadn't thought of the concept of ideal mankind in the design of the armor until now. how little do we know about the original daughters of the emperor and what they believed before Vandire picked them up? was this more something the Daughters themselves believed in before getting picked up, or was this Vandire, or both?

Times like this make me wish i could get some of the imperial cult's books, including the Lectitio Divinitatus, as improbably and likely shouldn't be attempted to be written.

As an aside, I've seen a couple of comments regarding battle heels - and, as a WMH player/collector, I've seen my fair share of them.

However, I don't remember any in the current SoB range, other than Canoness Varifocal - and hers are due to being an attempt to directly transfer a Blanche painting into a model.

Are there actually any SoB models in battle heels, or is their armour actually sensible in that regard?

I'd like to see them do a plastic multi-part kit that matches the original sculpts, but gives more dynamic posing, weapon and head options, along with some characters to match. The old-schoolers like myself will then be happy.

From there, they can then branch out into new/resculpted units with a crazy redesign/options that new people will love and old-schoolers will consider one a case-by-case basis. I doubt they'll do this of course, based on modern army updates. Scale is also a concern with everything being 'biggerized', as making them look gigantic alongside the old line will push people to consider other companies that do 'female sci-fi soldiers', like Toughest Girls in the Galaxy. I guess we'll just have to see.

 Dysartes wrote:
Are there actually any SoB models in battle heels

None beside the one you mentioned. They have very flat soles.

Yep. Shes she only one with heels and that was deliberate omage to the inspired art. Not even the canoness have heels. Lot of people get caught up over a single special edition model and make sweeping statements about sisters in stilettos.

I could stand to see the cone boob on the cannoness and mistress go. Pretty sure madonna wants those back. I cant paint those without laughing. Those things should be generating their own attacks.

Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 Sim-Life wrote:
There's a difference in the aesthetics between Centurions and a bald women wearing a sack.

Yeah, sure. Bald repentia wearing a sack is ugly in a meaningful, intentional way that works wonder to carry the theme of the model. They are fallen, broken people, how course they are ugly. It's that ugliness that makes the miniature striking and relevant. It's what makes them truthful to the theme.
Centurion are just ugly in a meaningless way, while they tried to look bad-ass and imposing.

There are many ways of representing a flagellant. Sackcloth is one of them, but is somewhat grounded. 40k, and in particular the religious elements, is not grounded but turned way up.
Repentia should evoke ugliness. And pain, suffering and devotion without end.
The old codex Witch Hunters cover, with the Repentia covered in her Oath of the Penitent and all the chain piercings and other tools of self castigation reflects that a bit better than a somewhat standard sackcloth flagellant with a big chainsword.
The side boob, not so much though.

Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

Fast pointy ear wrote:
Eh... You're dealing with miniatures roughly an inch big. Hair is obvious, boobs are obvious but the other physical differences like height, cleaner limbs, wider hips and facial structure aren't obvious without being emphasised to the point of being a caricature.

https://victoriaminiatures.com/collections/regiments-of-the-galaxys-finest
You can .
(Since I know new Sisters are coming which means I'll likely go back to 40k I'm planning to buy some of those splendid female IG to ally with!)

Whomever sculpted the face of the female Arcadians did a damn good job.
Still doesn't help with enclosed helmets.
Which is why the Hexenheim Storm Troopers in the post you linked only have a male version of the model.

Similarly, the other methods they've used (hair and a different armour pattern to narrow the shoulders) don't work with Sisters wearing a Sabbat pattern helm.

LunaWolvesLoyalist wrote:
should we have "They of Battle" where you really can't tell if it's a man or woman?

But that flies in the face of the Sisters fluff!

Due to one power mad Eclesiarch the Ministorium was expressly forbidden from ever again having "men under arms." By arming women the Ministorium complies with the restriction while still fielding a standing army. It's a huge "screw you" to the Imperial establishment.

And I see fielding a huge army of big boobed, wasp-waisted Nuns with Guns called Sisters of Battle as a huge screw you to the whole "Did you just assume my gender?" crowd.

Fast pointy ear wrote:
There are many ways of representing a flagellant. Sackcloth is one of them, but is somewhat grounded.

Grounded? By nature, flagellants aren't grounded.

Fast pointy ear wrote:
Similarly, the other methods they've used (hair and a different armour pattern to narrow the shoulders) don't work with Sisters wearing a Sabbat pattern helm.

I don't think it has to. Marines aren't recognizable as all male by their armor but people have no problem with this, even those that care a lot more than they should about them being all male.

phydaux wrote:
Due to one power mad Eclesiarch the Ministorium was expressly forbidden from ever again having "men under arms." By arming women the Ministorium complies with the restriction while still fielding a standing army. It's a huge "screw you" to the Imperial establishment.

Do you know in which context that deal was made? If you don't you won't understand the meaning of it.

I remember just before the Fall of cadia books came out early last year, GW released a promo teasing plastic Sisters of Battle. We ended up with three SoB models in plastic and everyone whined.

That's what happens when the interbutt over-interprets GW teasers. Until GW say "we're releasing Sisters of Battle" unequivocally, I'm not going to hold my breath.

Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

Fast pointy ear wrote:
There are many ways of representing a flagellant. Sackcloth is one of them, but is somewhat grounded.

Grounded? By nature, flagellants aren't grounded.

My bad, poor choice of words.
By grounded I meant something that either has existed in reality or something very close has existed.
For example, the various Guard vehicles that were inspired by the artillery pieces of the First and Second World War.

Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

Fast pointy ear wrote:
Similarly, the other methods they've used (hair and a different armour pattern to narrow the shoulders) don't work with Sisters wearing a Sabbat pattern helm.

I don't think it has to. Marines aren't recognizable as all male by their armor but people have no problem with this, even those that care a lot more than they should about them being all male.

Two points to that.
Firstly, there are marines that are very clearly male by their armour.
The Sanguinary Guard, Astorath, the Sanguinor and all the other Blood Angel nipple armour models are all examples of a Gothic style armour meant to accentuate and celebrate the male human form.

Secondly, by default soldiers are thought of as male. There is nowhere near as much of a need to show your male soldiers as male as there is for your female ones.

BBAP wrote:I remember just before the Fall of cadia books came out early last year, GW released a promo teasing plastic Sisters of Battle. We ended up with three SoB models in plastic and everyone whined.

That's what happens when the interbutt over-interprets GW teasers. Until GW say "we're releasing Sisters of Battle" unequivocally, I'm not going to hold my breath.

They have said it is as part of a full codex release.

EDIT: Hang on, I might be misremembering that last part.

They said that there was going to be a beta sisters dex included in the next CA.

Someone posted this earlier with a similar statement. As long as GW dose not stray to far from this aesthetic, I will be plenty happy.

 Galas wrote:
I don't know if this is real life anymore.

Fast pointy ear wrote:

Melissia wrote:You don't need boob-cups to identify the wearer of armor as feminine. I'm not saying this as an argument to remove them, I'm just saying your argument here doesn't make any sense.

Eh... You're dealing with miniatures roughly an inch big. Hair is obvious, boobs are obvious but the other physical differences like height, cleaner limbs, wider hips and facial structure aren't obvious without being emphasised to the point of being a caricature.

Boob plate is a defining feature of fantasy, which 40k definitely is. I hope we get more (ahem) "blessed" Sisters.


Looks like DDs in a 1950s "rocket" bra.

Oh yeah, 40k models *are* caricatures. That's a given.


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 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 Sim-Life wrote:
There's a difference in the aesthetics between Centurions and a bald women wearing a sack.

Yeah, sure. Bald repentia wearing a sack is ugly in a meaningful, intentional way that works wonder to carry the theme of the model

They're also kinda hawt?


It'd be a shame if they didn't play up the D/S bondage subculture subtext

That said, modern plastics can be quite nice!

 Ouze wrote:
My real concern is, what if they're not all pigeon toed like the Raging Heroes stuff?

Spoiler:

But that model isn't pigeon toed?

I can do without ridiculous boob plate cleavage. Note it's the cleavage that overdoes it.

Corset like armour design is per the course, 40K especially SoB has a steampunk gothic vibe.

I can do without supermodels pretending to be into self flagellation. However something like that last picture JohnWang linked could be awesome.

 Melissia wrote:

Or to turn it around-- do you believe that marines need to have a shiny metal gag-penis sticking brazenly and openly out of their codpieces, with a pair of spiky hanging hanging balls underneath, in order to identify them as men?

Holy gak as an ork player I want that so bad.... I would have an entire squad of nobs with looted nobs.

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
They're also kinda hawt?

Spoiler:

Those aren't wearing a sack. And the bondage subtext is better kept for Dark Eldars and Slaanesh, where it belongs.
Beside, the hawtest, awesomest, best Adeptus Sororitas cosplay ever have always been and will always be about the best Sororitas (but NOT Sisters of Battle) model:

So fething cool!

I for one hope they're just trolling SoB players because SoB tears are a staple of the community. Every thread, no matter the topic, has someone crying about plastic sisters.

Danny slag wrote:
I for one hope they're just trolling SoB players because SoB tears are a staple of the community. Every thread, no matter the topic, has someone crying about plastic sisters.

Even this one, now!

Fast pointy ear wrote:
Firstly, there are marines that are very clearly male by their armour.
The Sanguinary Guard, Astorath, the Sanguinor and all the other Blood Angel nipple armour models are all examples of a Gothic style armour meant to accentuate and celebrate the male human form.

I agree, but they are the exceptions, not the norm.

Fast pointy ear wrote:
Secondly, by default soldiers are thought of as male.

I agree but I think it'd be great to change this. GW has done a lovely job on that with the T'au already.

 Melissia wrote:
I wasn't making an argument for removing boob-cups-- frankly, I actually rather like Celestine's mini and think she should be the basis for new Sisters.

I just think-- and my argument IMO rather proved-- that the argument that Marmatag presented was wrong.

You are confusing "my argument" with "the argument that you fabricated, and then attacked."

So i'll just say good job!


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 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 Marmatag wrote:
Or should we have "They of Battle" where you really can't tell if it's a man or woman?

Space Marines are some “They of Battle”. Yet suggest that the lore could be updated to have half of them be women and people go all up in arms, even though that wouldn't change a thing about the models.
Yeah, apparently you don't need to make the gender obvious on the armor to have people care about it.

If that's the case you've had plastic sisters of battle for years, haven't you?



Remember this conversation was started by someone who said that sisters of battle should not have boob plate.

On Boob Plate-which I have no idea how relevant it is, but hey, was in the last post-I'm of the opinion that IN GENERAL it's fething stupid, but for SoB it makes sense.

The whole POINT of SoB is that they're ladies, so armor that emphasizes that makes sense. Plus, the Imperium (outside of the guard) has a big form over function thing going on.

So boobplate on female guardsmen? Stupid.
Boobplate on SoB? Eh, whatever. I'm cool with it.

There are some really high quality plastic female heads you can buy. A friend of mine runs SOB and he has his army with marine bodies, but with female heads. Those are his plastic sisters, and they look great.

But they might offend some feminists because the heads have ponytails / long hair, and it's painted black on most. Also, none of his models are plus size.

I think it's cool sisters of battle are getting plastic. I'm a little disappointed in the community reaction and comments like: "PLEASE NO BOOB PLATE," I mean, if you want gender-fluid models you already have them. Why would you need plastic sisters?

 Marmatag wrote:
There are some really high quality plastic female heads you can buy. A friend of mine runs SOB and he has his army with marine bodies, but with female heads. Those are his plastic sisters, and they look great.

But they might offend some feminists because the heads have ponytails / long hair, and it's painted black on most. Also, none of his models are plus size.

I think it's cool sisters of battle are getting plastic. I'm a little disappointed in the community reaction and comments like: "PLEASE NO BOOB PLATE," I mean, if you want gender-fluid models you already have them. Why would you need plastic sisters?

I think it's because most of us that like boob plate don't want to post about it for fear of derailing entire topics and turning it into being attacked personally because we're some sort of underhive scum.

AdmiralHalsey wrote:

 Marmatag wrote:
There are some really high quality plastic female heads you can buy. A friend of mine runs SOB and he has his army with marine bodies, but with female heads. Those are his plastic sisters, and they look great.

But they might offend some feminists because the heads have ponytails / long hair, and it's painted black on most. Also, none of his models are plus size.

I think it's cool sisters of battle are getting plastic. I'm a little disappointed in the community reaction and comments like: "PLEASE NO BOOB PLATE," I mean, if you want gender-fluid models you already have them. Why would you need plastic sisters?

I think it's because most of us that like boob plate don't want to post about it for fear of derailing entire topics and turning it into being attacked personally because we're some sort of underhive scum.

I know you're posting from the UK, but this general attitude sums up America right now. It's just not safe to argue in favor of something you like against those who might get offended. The risk is too high.

I'm going to argue in favor of what my girlfriend likes. She wants her models to be hot, so we've branched into third party miniatures. We might look at the Daughters of Khaine, they're a good example of what she's looking for in a general sense.

I never get the arguments on here for female models.

Its always starts as we need more female representation.
Then someone points out something like SOB
Then they start to complain that SOB models are objectified with boob plates
Then someone points out that you can simply do a head swap on most miniatures (IG, generic SM ect) and get exactly what they are looking for
Then they say that the head swap isn't enough because they need obviously female models..... aka boob plates


Either way ill be picking up some of these to mix with my crusader themed IG. I already have some priests now I just need some nuns with guns.

 Marmatag wrote:

AdmiralHalsey wrote:

 Marmatag wrote:
.

But they might offend some feminists because the heads have ponytails / long hair, and it's painted black on most. Also, none of his models are plus size.

I think it's cool sisters of battle are getting plastic. I'm a little disappointed in the community reaction and comments like: "PLEASE NO BOOB PLATE," I mean, if you want gender-fluid models you already have them. Why would you need plastic sisters?

I think it's because most of us that like boob plate don't want to post about it for fear of derailing entire topics and turning it into being attacked personally because we're some sort of underhive scum.

I know you're posting from the UK, but this general attitude sums up America right now. It's just not safe to argue in favor of something you like against those who might get offended. The risk is too high.

I'm going to argue in favor of what my girlfriend likes. She wants her models to be hot, so we've branched into third party miniatures. We might look at the Daughters of Khaine, they're a good example of what she's looking for in a general sense.

speak for yourself in not wanting to offend another based on opinion. if your (not yours specifically, I'm referring in general) argument can't stand up to vigorous public discourse, your (again not spec) argument carries no weight.

I love how the sisters look, I love how sis of silence look. changing something for the sake of argument is the most ridiculous thing that can happen.

if someone has an entirely different opinion on something, they have the right to it. but if they're just louder than yours it doesn't make your argument less valid. if you (not you) get offended by something someone says, then thats a personal problem and you should just go curl up into a ball or stop wasting oxygen that everybody else could use. isn't the old adage "sticks n stones may break my bones, but words will never hurt me"

everybody needs to get over giving a scheiss about hurting another's feelings. opinions are like a$$holes, everybody's got one and it matters just as much as what comes out of it.

everyone has to respect that a difference of opinion is just that. If you want less boobplate, fine. if you want more boobplate, fine. if you only want (x) fine. it doesn't mean it's gonna happen. GW will do whatever they want and if you don't like it, see the above. vote w your wallet.

if you don't like what I've said, that's perfectly fine. I'm not going to lose sleep over it.

anyway, I really hope they maintain the look, just like they did w Celestine & her wonder twins.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
They're also kinda hawt?

Spoiler:

Those aren't wearing a sack. And the bondage subtext is better kept for Dark Eldars and Slaanesh, where it belongs.

100% Wrong. The Eccesiarch is *exactly* the same as Chaos, and Repentia are merely Imperial Daemonettes for all intents and purposes.


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 Marmatag wrote:
I'm going to argue in favor of what my girlfriend likes. She wants her models to be hot, so we've branched into third party miniatures.

Kingdom Death, my friend. The pinups and other narratives are overtly sexy and characterful. The pending beefcake may also catch her eye.

 lolman1c wrote:

 TheCustomLime wrote:
I don't mind the boob plate. It's not realistic, yeah, but nothing about the Imperium is. Over the top ornamentation is par for course for the IoM *especially* the Ecclesiarchy.

have you seen the size of some of those crotch codd peices? Space marines look smexy as hell! With their abbs carved into their armour and strong masculine shoulders! I'd sleep with one!

What a dreamboat...


I wonder if the Sisters will get heavy infantry. Maybe some human sized Terminator armor? I mean, it's not like the Ecclesiarchy is hurting for cash or anything. They're the kind of people to build continent sized cathedrals made of solid gold.