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**fe40k**

Sim-Life wrote:
fe40k wrote:
DCannon4Life wrote:
fe40k wrote:
Yeah; if you had any hope for the game - this FAQ is all the proof you need to see to understand that the designers have ZERO clue what they're doing.
"ZERO clue" Seriously? Please contribute something thoughtful or refrain from clogging this thread with pointless, baseless, inane, hyperbolic statements. Cheers.

I'm sorry, but - as a player who has been holding out hope for a reasonable Ork codex (despite every indication that I really shouldn't be); this is the straw that breaks my will to play 40k.

How can any reasonable player, more importantly; developer, think that nerfing the weakest aspect of the game (Melee), on the most critical turn of the game (Round 1), with NO penalty to gunline armies - be fair in any capacity?

Stopping Melee armies from deepstriking round 1? Sure - but only if you also stop shooting armies from having effecitve shooting round 1 either.

THE RULE ISN'T FINAL YET.

Why do people keep acting like it?

It's in the FAQ.

People play with matched play rules, period. Most will play with the beta rules because;

A) They're there, in official format (albeit listed as "beta")
B) If you don't - you're house ruling 40k, and at that point, there's a LOT more changes that should be made

**AlmightyWalrus**

Backspacehacker wrote:
Ordana wrote:
I don't think I like the deepstrike change.
Feels like they fethed up deepstriking this edition and now that its not a single rule they can tweak they just slam a dumb restriction on it rather then fix dozens of individual rules.

Not being able to meaningfully Deepstrike turn 1 feths up so many armies/units.

I am so glad they did this. I kept screaming that turn one chargeable deep strike is way more powerful then people were thinking. The fact they have away to metigate it is fine now. It's going back more toward how it used to be.

It was the one thing keeping melee armies in the game for the first time since 5th edition. To nerf the melee alpha strike while leaving shooting untouched is just dumb.

Apart from that one change the rest seems okay and steps in the right direction, but gun lines hardly needed buffs.

**Slayer-Fan123**

Sim-Life wrote:
fe40k wrote:
DCannon4Life wrote:
fe40k wrote:
Yeah; if you had any hope for the game - this FAQ is all the proof you need to see to understand that the designers have ZERO clue what they're doing.
"ZERO clue" Seriously? Please contribute something thoughtful or refrain from clogging this thread with pointless, baseless, inane, hyperbolic statements. Cheers.

I'm sorry, but - as a player who has been holding out hope for a reasonable Ork codex (despite every indication that I really shouldn't be); this is the straw that breaks my will to play 40k.

How can any reasonable player, more importantly; developer, think that nerfing the weakest aspect of the game (Melee), on the most critical turn of the game (Round 1), with NO penalty to gunline armies - be fair in any capacity?

Stopping Melee armies from deepstriking round 1? Sure - but only if you also stop shooting armies from having effecitve shooting round 1 either.

THE RULE ISN'T FINAL YET.

Why do people keep acting like it?

Because if nobody is talking about the fact it is a fething garbage suggestion, the devs might think it was brilliant and then implement it.

**fe40k**

AlmightyWalrus wrote:
Backspacehacker wrote:
Ordana wrote:
I don't think I like the deepstrike change.
Feels like they fethed up deepstriking this edition and now that its not a single rule they can tweak they just slam a dumb restriction on it rather then fix dozens of individual rules.

Not being able to meaningfully Deepstrike turn 1 feths up so many armies/units.

I am so glad they did this. I kept screaming that turn one chargeable deep strike is way more powerful then people were thinking. The fact they have away to metigate it is fine now. It's going back more toward how it used to be.

It was the one thing keeping melee armies in the game for the first time since 5th edition. To nerf the melee alpha strike while leaving shooting untouched is just dumb.

Apart from that one change the rest seems okay and steps in the right direction, but gun lines hardly needed buffs.

They should have had entire round 1 as no shooting, no close combat.

That way it could be used to jockey for position on the board.

**Sim-Life**

fe40k wrote:
Sim-Life wrote:
fe40k wrote:
DCannon4Life wrote:
fe40k wrote:
Yeah; if you had any hope for the game - this FAQ is all the proof you need to see to understand that the designers have ZERO clue what they're doing.
"ZERO clue" Seriously? Please contribute something thoughtful or refrain from clogging this thread with pointless, baseless, inane, hyperbolic statements. Cheers.

I'm sorry, but - as a player who has been holding out hope for a reasonable Ork codex (despite every indication that I really shouldn't be); this is the straw that breaks my will to play 40k.

How can any reasonable player, more importantly; developer, think that nerfing the weakest aspect of the game (Melee), on the most critical turn of the game (Round 1), with NO penalty to gunline armies - be fair in any capacity?

Stopping Melee armies from deepstriking round 1? Sure - but only if you also stop shooting armies from having effecitve shooting round 1 either.

THE RULE ISN'T FINAL YET.

Why do people keep acting like it?

It's in the FAQ.

People play with matched play rules, period. Most will play with the beta rules because;

A) They're there, in official format (albeit listed as "beta")
B) If you don't - you're house ruling 40k, and at that point, there's a LOT more changes that should be made

I have literally never heard of anyone doing this.

**skchsan**

So... the only real change SM's got is nerf to the ONLY list that works for them... Neat!

**MalfunctBot**

The FOC limit is only for tournaments I don't care about, the Deep Strike rule is Beta and HOPEFULLY won't be fully implemented, and 189 Points of Firewarriors/Cadres now generate 5CP instead of 3.

I'm happy. Could've been better, could've made my entire army irrelevant.

**mokoshkana**

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Zid wrote:
Death Guard DP's can take a Plaguespewer now! NEAT!

Is...is there a model for that?

Yes, the FW Nurgle Daemon Prince comes with Malefic Claws and A Plaguespewer:
https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-EU/Nurgle-Daemon-Prince-Herald-2017

**Xenomancers**

Point cost on guilliman goes UP AGAIN! Literally. Gak this rules team - they have their head up their butts. They have NO IDEA what is wrong with this game. Making bad armies worse doesn't help anyone - It certainly doesn't help them make money.

Warlocks and warlock conclave up 20 points each. Quite literally the worst units in the codex just went up in price about 40%.

**fe40k**

skchsan wrote:
So... the only real change SM's got is nerf to the ONLY list that works for them... Neat!

You've got Imperial Guard, Gulliman, and a feth-ton of shooting.

Xenos armies have none of those.

Consider yourself lucky that you're the favored children of 40k.

**Ordana**

Are we sure the soup nerf is for in detachments only?

All of the units in each Detachment in your Battle-forged army must have at least one Faction keyword in common. In addition, this keyword cannot
be Chaos, Imperium, Aeldari, Ynnari or Tyranids,

All units in each detachments.
Not all units in a detachment. but each.

Kinda does read like soup of any shape is dead.

**ChargerIIC**

Ordana wrote:
Are we sure the soup nerf is for in detachments only?
All of the units in each Detachment in your Battle-forged army must have at least one Faction keyword in common. In addition, this keyword cannot
be Chaos, Imperium, Aeldari, Ynnari or Tyranids,
All units in each detachments.
Not all units in a detachment. but each.

Kinda does read like soup of any shape is dead.

Well they specifly said that the change is only at the detachment level and that Imperium was valid for armies, so....

**Wibe**

Zid wrote:
Death Guard DP's can take a Plaguespewer now! NEAT!

Where can I find this? I only got the big faq, 6pages.

**Daedalus81**

Wibe wrote:
Zid wrote:
Death Guard DP's can take a Plaguespewer now! NEAT!

Where can I find this? I only got the big faq, 6pages.

WarCom site

**skchsan**

fe40k wrote:
skchsan wrote:
So... the only real change SM's got is nerf to the ONLY list that works for them... Neat!

You've got Imperial Guard, Gulliman, and a feth-ton of shooting.

Xenos armies have none of those.

Consider yourself lucky that you're the favored children of 40k.

No, literally units with highest EPP were the two units nerfed in the FAQ - girlyman and fireraptors. GG GW.

So competently incompetent.

**Xenomancers**

Soup is not even affected bro - you can take detachments of IG for command points and any other imperium army. You just can't mix detachments anymore. The only situation I can think of this actaully matters is with celestine - taking a unit of space marines scouts in a patrol - you can't do that anymore.

**Zid**

Wibe wrote:
Zid wrote:
Death Guard DP's can take a Plaguespewer now! NEAT!

Where can I find this? I only got the big faq, 6pages.

Death Guard FAQ was updated, lot of good stuff.

That said, there is no model for it; I'm just gonna say my dudes how smelly ass breath and puke at 'em. Its kinda the same argument with the warp bolter that most people cant see on the DP model...

**Unit1126PLL**

Ordana wrote:
Are we sure the soup nerf is for in detachments only?
All of the units in each Detachment in your Battle-forged army must have at least one Faction keyword in common. In addition, this keyword cannot
be Chaos, Imperium, Aeldari, Ynnari or Tyranids,
All units in each detachments.
Not all units in a detachment. but each.

Kinda does read like soup of any shape is dead.

But then there's the sentence that says "this does not affect your Army faction." Which I assume means you can still have Army Faction: Imperium.

**Ordana**

ChargerIIC wrote:
Ordana wrote:
Are we sure the soup nerf is for in detachments only?
All of the units in each Detachment in your Battle-forged army must have at least one Faction keyword in common. In addition, this keyword cannot
be Chaos, Imperium, Aeldari, Ynnari or Tyranids,
All units in each detachments.
Not all units in a detachment. but each.

Kinda does read like soup of any shape is dead.

Well they specifly said that the change is only at the detachment level and that Imperium was valid for armies, so....

Well what they say and what the words say don't seem to match up.

**Daedalus81**

skchsan wrote:
fe40k wrote:
skchsan wrote:
So... the only real change SM's got is nerf to the ONLY list that works for them... Neat!

You've got Imperial Guard, Gulliman, and a feth-ton of shooting.

Xenos armies have none of those.

Consider yourself lucky that you're the favored children of 40k.
No, literally units with highest EPP were the two units nerfed in the FAQ - girlyman and fireraptors. GG GW.

So competently incompetent.

EPP?

**DCannon4Life**

Ordana wrote:
Are we sure the soup nerf is for in detachments only?
All of the units in each Detachment in your Battle-forged army must have at least one Faction keyword in common. In addition, this keyword cannot
be Chaos, Imperium, Aeldari, Ynnari or Tyranids,
All units in each detachments.
Not all units in a detachment. but each.

Kinda does read like soup of any shape is dead.

Please remember that GW, writing in UK English, uses 'each' to mean 'every individual'. Thus: "All of the units in [every individual] Detachment in your Battle-forged army must have at least one Faction keyword in common...". Detachment-level soup is dead. Army-level soup is still alive.

**mokoshkana**

Shadenuat wrote:
Someone explain me who autowon using Warlock Conclave. Or maybe I missed something lol.

Yeah I think the warlock price jump is insane. Warlock Skyrunners were already insanely expensive at 70 pts, and now they are 90. A Conclave of 2 bikes is 160. Why would anyone ever take that datasheet?

**ArmchairArbiter**

This deep strike change makes my Slaanesh Mono-Daemon army feel better actually. It makes our speed actually mean something and differentiates us from our slower Nurgle and Khorne fellows, even Tzeentch, who just dropped in ahead of us.. and was part of the reason Slaanesh was bashed on a bit.

I'm actually happy with that change for the most part.

I believe more exemptions should be made however. Probably for Tyranids and drop pods (making them relevant again).

**skchsan**

Daedalus81 wrote:
skchsan wrote:
fe40k wrote:
skchsan wrote:
So... the only real change SM's got is nerf to the ONLY list that works for them... Neat!

You've got Imperial Guard, Gulliman, and a feth-ton of shooting.

Xenos armies have none of those.

Consider yourself lucky that you're the favored children of 40k.
No, literally units with highest EPP were the two units nerfed in the FAQ - girlyman and fireraptors. GG GW.

So competently incompetent.

EPP?

Efficiency-per-point

AKA Biggest bang for your buck!

**Daedalus81**

Relic of Cadia is once per.

IG CP Factory is toned down.

**CREEEEEEEEED**

This DS thing actually messes up RG. If you ant a turn one charge, you now have to blow all your cp, no DS support. And hey, feth you of you're a raptors player who wants to play issodon in tandem with strike from the shadows. At least I'm now happy the local GW house rules PL only.

**mokoshkana**

Zid wrote:
Wibe wrote:
Zid wrote:
Death Guard DP's can take a Plaguespewer now! NEAT!

Where can I find this? I only got the big faq, 6pages.

Death Guard FAQ was updated, lot of good stuff.

That said, there is no model for it; I'm just gonna say my dudes how smelly ass breath and puke at 'em. Its kinda the same argument with the warp bolter that most people cant see on the DP model...

Yes, there is a model for it:
https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-EU/Nurgle-Daemon-Prince-Herald-2017

**Vaktathi**

So when Commissars shoot someone, it no longer counts against the morale test...its interesting to see what GW fixes, ignores, and breaks with these sessions...

**Unit1126PLL**

Vaktathi wrote:
So when Commissars shoot someone, it no longer counts against the morale test...its interesting to see what GW fixes, ignores, and breaks with these sessions...

It's also optional now. Which is huge.

**Slayer-Fan123**

Unit1126PLL wrote:
Vaktathi wrote:
So when Commissars shoot someone, it no longer counts against the morale test...its interesting to see what GW fixes, ignores, and breaks with these sessions...

It's also optional now. Which is huge.

That's actually a huge fix. They just need to make Conscripts not terrible again.