Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.
Tiberius501 wrote: Hey, could I ask why Warriors are considered to be bad? 12pts I guess is a lot, but they do have RP which seems pretty tanky if behind cover and -1AP which is quite nice for a small scale game.
Sure!
Compare them to Immortals (with Gauss).
Warriors are identical, except for: Points: 12 vs 16 Saves: 4+ vs 3+ Weapon Strength: 4 vs 5 Weapon AP: -1 vs -2
So, against the same target, they have the same change of hitting. However, they will wound more frequently, and (unless the target has a 6+ save) get through the armour more frequently.
If you calculate their damage output, at max range (so with -1 to hit), targeting a space marine, it comes out like:
(chance to hit) x (chance to wound) x (chance to fail save) Warrior: (3/6) x (3/6) x (3/6) = 0.125 damage per shot Immortal: (3/6) x (4/6) x (4/6) = 0.222 damage per shot
But of course, immortals are more expensive. Per point, it comes out as:
Thus, Immortals are putting out roughly 40% more damage than Warriors. And that doesn't even include the fact that they have that effective +1 to their saves.
So, in short - they do more damage and are sturdier, and are overall more points efficient.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/10/12 07:01:05
Daetya wrote: Doesn't take in account that you win games by taking objectives, and more cheaper models are more effective at doing that than few elite ones
Yeah this is what I was thinking. You make a lot of obviously good points but, warriors seem good to get an extra model in there for objective capping. And with RP, they seem pretty resilient to do it
For 100 points, you could have 6 immortals, or 8 warriors. Or, 5 immortals and 2 flayed ones (7 bodies total).
Stick them in cover, and you have 3+ saves and injury rolls that only kill on a 5. I haven't minded the "lower" model count so far - against eldar or dark eldar, tyranid swarms, or Ad Mech. Often, I still have more models (vs tyranid monsters, space marines, or thousand sons).
hvg3akaek wrote: For 100 points, you could have 6 immortals, or 8 warriors. Or, 5 immortals and 2 flayed ones (7 bodies total).
Stick them in cover, and you have 3+ saves and injury rolls that only kill on a 5. I haven't minded the "lower" model count so far - against eldar or dark eldar, tyranid swarms, or Ad Mech. Often, I still have more models (vs tyranid monsters, space marines, or thousand sons).
This is also true. I just want an excuse to use my swathe of warrior models. Tell me they don't suck!
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/10/13 02:11:14
iGuy91 wrote: What sort of wargear we talking when it comes to the OL?
i assume that they can take a WarScythe maybe?
The Novokh Overlord that comes in his own box has a Voidscythe so we'll at least have that as another option. No telling if hyperphase swords etc will also be available but given that they are options in the codex I would be inclined to guess yes.
Yeah, I can't imagine wanting anything other than the two scythe variants. Necrons need a multi-wound killer, and right now the Overlord commander is our only option.
Unfortunately, using a Comander to fill the gaping holes in the regular team is not any kind of answer. The teams who already have no weaknesses will also be using a Commander who just makes them light years better .
"'players must agree how they are going to select their armies, and if any restrictions apply to the number and type of models they can use."
This is an actual rule in the actual rulebook. Quit whining about how you can imagine someone's army touching you in a bad place and play by the actual rules.
Freelance Ontologist
When people ask, "What's the point in understanding everything?" they've just disqualified themselves from using questions and should disappear in a puff of paradox. But they don't understand and just continue existing, which are also their only two strategies for life.
Necrons suck, we can either sit here and moan about it or figure out what our best options to compete with other kill teams are. Right now the Scythe Overlord fills a gaping hole in our list, that's going to help us more than another faction who's list is already complete and further power is only supplementary.
I really don't think they suck in Kill Team, we're not up at the top tier with DG, and we lack some tools (multi damage weapons especially), but we're tough, more so with the tactics in our team box, and Leadership is absolutely not to be underestimated. It's a rare game I've played where morale does not play a part (if nothing else, a whole bunch of missions are won instantly on a break test).
My gut is that we're a really solid mid-tier, we struggle with some missions and do well in others; we can stand on points with slim chances of dying, and we're not a bad call against a Plasma meta (no charge only wounding on 3s, overcharge gives us 30% chance of insta heal/only 44% chance of OOA on an injury roll). But, we struggle far more with any mission that require mobility, I think the only way to win Terror Tactics is basically to get all the points from killing your enemy Especially now it's errata'd!
I don't think it's been addressed yet, but now that we have Overlords bringing MWBD to Kill Team, could Tesla Immortals finally be worth taking?
(does anyone know how the Commanders expansion will integrate? I know it said a point increase, but do we know how much? If it's only 50 points I don't know if that's going to be of much help, as the OL is probably going to be taking up more than that by himself)
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/10/20 12:30:46
skoffs wrote: I don't think it's been addressed yet, but now that we have Overlords bringing MWBD to Kill Team, could Tesla Immortals finally be worth taking?
(does anyone know how the Commanders expansion will integrate? I know it said a point increase, but do we know how much? If it's only 50 points I don't know if that's going to be of much help, as the OL is probably going to be taking up more than that by himself)
No since Tesla has been changed to natural 6 so no modifiers...
to your other question its going to be probably 200p as they said in the preview the Broodlord can be a one man army at 192p fully equipped and lvled up.
If we dont see any point changes for our commanders were still going to be pretty bad as our HQs are quite pricey...plus id like to know the buffof a cryptek
skoffs wrote: I don't think it's been addressed yet, but now that we have Overlords bringing MWBD to Kill Team, could Tesla Immortals finally be worth taking?
(does anyone know how the Commanders expansion will integrate? I know it said a point increase, but do we know how much? If it's only 50 points I don't know if that's going to be of much help, as the OL is probably going to be taking up more than that by himself)
All the narrative / balanced missions in the book are 200 point missions but one that is 100 point, but in not all of them you "must" have a Commander. In some occasions the mission states that one team has a Commander and the other doesn't.
That special one is weird, because is a Kill Team vs 1 Commander mission (a boss fight), but that Commander can only cost 100 points or less... and there's more than one Commander that costs more than 100 points at lvl 1 without any improvements. Even the GK Commander is 103 points at minimum lvl, and that faction has no other options.
Any point drops for our commanders in this expansion?
Edit: Yes! Cryptek is 44points and Overlord stays at his 86(?)points BUT all the weapon upgrades are for free.
Now I dont see why someone would EVER take a Cryptek...Hes just a Warrior with 4wounds and tactics (only one is actually good to ignore injuries on your models WITHIN 3“!!!)
Overlord takes this one.
Now I dont get why GW still sticks to 3“ auras for crypteks...especially in KT sticking together means getting charged and this is game over for crons
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/10/21 20:03:24
skoffs wrote: I don't think it's been addressed yet, but now that we have Overlords bringing MWBD to Kill Team, could Tesla Immortals finally be worth taking?
(does anyone know how the Commanders expansion will integrate? I know it said a point increase, but do we know how much? If it's only 50 points I don't know if that's going to be of much help, as the OL is probably going to be taking up more than that by himself)
No since Tesla has been changed to natural 6 so no modifiers...
to your other question its going to be probably 200p as they said in the preview the Broodlord can be a one man army at 192p fully equipped and lvled up.
If we dont see any point changes for our commanders were still going to be pretty bad as our HQs are quite pricey...plus id like to know the buffof a cryptek
Waiiiit...wait....what the hell was that about Tesla?
Bedouin Dynasty: 10000 pts
The Silver Lances: 4000 pts
The Custodes Winter Watch 4000 pts
MajorStoffer wrote:
...
Sternguard though, those guys are all about kicking ass. They'd chew bubble gum as well, but bubble gum is heretical. Only tau chew gum.
The FAQ errata'd Tesla weapons so that they proc on an unmodified 6 rather than 6+. They'd already changed Plasma to overheat on unmodified 1s in the core rules, with the vast number of modifiers from rules and special abilities I guess it keeps things more simple.
Yeah, otherwise, with any cover, any long range, any flesh wounds, or any other penalty to shooting, you'd only trigger tesla with bonuses - sometimes, substantial bonuses.
And once you get close in, gauss is still better.
It gives us an option at long range, as opposed to tesla being purely terrible.
Yeah, glad someone mentioned that, I'd written it off as a total loss
Bedouin Dynasty: 10000 pts
The Silver Lances: 4000 pts
The Custodes Winter Watch 4000 pts
MajorStoffer wrote:
...
Sternguard though, those guys are all about kicking ass. They'd chew bubble gum as well, but bubble gum is heretical. Only tau chew gum.
So Tesla on a 6 to hit does not care about the -1 for distance, but it can't benefit from MWBD's +1 to hit, either.
I guess that's a fair trade off.
I'm kinda liking the idea of a team of Deathmarks next to an Overlord (so they're all hitting on 2+ from 24" away). If only there was a way to let them reroll their to wound rolls, too...
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/10/23 04:04:21
skoffs wrote: So Tesla on a 6 to hit does not care about the -1 for distance, but it can't benefit from MWBD's +1 to hit, either.
I guess that's a fair trade off.
I'm kinda liking the idea of a team of Deathmarks next to an Overlord (so they're all hitting on 2+ from 24" away). If only there was a way to let them reroll their to wound rolls, too...
You still get the minus for obscured so usually hitting on 3s...Plus you wamt them to get close as our sniper rifles are rapid fire too...then you have to ask yourself if you really want to spend 15p on a boltgun with 6s to wound effect...PLUSPLUS you dont get to use the double shooting strat as it limits the usage to Gauss Weapons (Im not 100% sure on that one)
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/10/23 05:49:57
Well, can't say I'm overly impressed with our Commander options. A 2 point aura that is not really that much better than anyone else's 1 points (most charging minis will move out of the aura, no one really wants to advance, else they won't shoot...); and a cryptek who allows people to ignore a flesh wound...instead of removing a flesh wound, which I see at least two other commanders have. That would have been a little more repair-y, yes?
Ah well - anyone spotted some neat tricks with the specialisms yet?
So I have been going through the commander book as well as all our Stratgems to see what kind of buffs our Commanders can get. And, tbf, we can become quite bulky.
for 126pts you can take a lvl 3 Fortitude Overlord that gains the following;
6+ FnP,
Re-roll injury roll on this model once per turn. And,
Either -1 to our injury rolls or a pysker deny.
This makes the Overlord pretty godly if you ask me. 5w, T5, 6+ FnP, a pysker deny and a weapon that wounds basically everything on 2s. Besides anything T6 (there is a way around that).
Another great option is a lvl 3 Leadership Overlord. Which gains the following;
-1 to nerve test,
3" sure buff (MWBD = 9"),
When you use an aura tactic (MWBD) roll a d6, gain a CP on a 3+. Basically making MWBD a 1CP gem.
While this isn't as tanky as Fortitude, this overlord basically makes all your other necron models better by giving them all 2+ BS before modifiers and if backed by FOs they all hit on 2s as well.
Those are the best specialist I could think of for the Overlord. Also, it should he suggested that if you give your Commander a Commander trait, give them the +D3 CPs for 15pts just to make sure you have the CPs you need to pull off some combos.
Now for the gems. Unless stated otherwise. All necron gems that we have can target our Commanders (unless stated otherwise like mentioning specific models names). So, with that. Here are my top 3 necron gems that Overlord can and should use from necron stratgems.
1 - prime reanimation protocols - 2CP - While this gem is gakk for our RP models. It is pretty good for an Overlord (and no, you don't need RP to use them them). Basically when you take an injury roll you can add an extra die and your opponent has to pick to lowest die. Why is this good? Well it stops your commander dying on 4/5/6 by making the opponent pick the lowest die roll. Pretty solid gem if your being attacked with a weapon with lots of DMG
2 - entropic strike - 1CP - when a model is reduced to 0 wounds and you make the injury roll you can add +1 to the roll. This lets us kill things on a 3+ before modifiers giving the Olord a 66% chance of killing whatever he is in CC with before doing the math on the 3 injury rolls. So, see that commander you want dead? Charge, do dmg, pop gem, Necrons are OP.
3 - disruption fields - 1CP - +1 strength for this model in CC. Makes the Olord s6 and with Voidscythe you are now S12 basically meaning anything you fight is getting wounded on 2s. EVERYTHING. This gem pairs really well with Vendetta. For those that did not buy the Necron Commander Box. This is what Vendetta does;
Vendetta - 1CP - if your army includes an Overlord, pick A faction keyword e.g. Tyranids. Your overlord gets to re-roll 1s to hit and wound against all model with that Faction keyword. So, when paired with Disruption fields, for 2CPs you get hitting on 3s re-rolling 1s (unless you have a way to get +1 to hit) plus wounding on 2s, re-rolling 1s.
That's just amazing.
I will he doing tactic videos on all of the above plus move so if people have suggestions please let me know and I'll record whatever content you guys would like.
Odrankt wrote: So I have been going through the commander book as well as all our Stratgems to see what kind of buffs our Commanders can get. And, tbf, we can become quite bulky.
for 126pts you can take a lvl 3 Fortitude Overlord that gains the following;
6+ FnP,
Re-roll injury roll on this model once per turn. And,
Either -1 to our injury rolls or a pysker deny.
This makes the Overlord pretty godly if you ask me. 5w, T5, 6+ FnP, a pysker deny and a weapon that wounds basically everything on 2s. Besides anything T6 (there is a way around that).
Another great option is a lvl 3 Leadership Overlord. Which gains the following;
-1 to nerve test,
3" sure buff (MWBD = 9"),
When you use an aura tactic (MWBD) roll a d6, gain a CP on a 3+. Basically making MWBD a 1CP gem.
While this isn't as tanky as Fortitude, this overlord basically makes all your other necron models better by giving them all 2+ BS before modifiers and if backed by FOs they all hit on 2s as well.
Those are the best specialist I could think of for the Overlord. Also, it should he suggested that if you give your Commander a Commander trait, give them the +D3 CPs for 15pts just to make sure you have the CPs you need to pull off some combos.
Now for the gems. Unless stated otherwise. All necron gems that we have can target our Commanders (unless stated otherwise like mentioning specific models names). So, with that. Here are my top 3 necron gems that Overlord can and should use from necron stratgems.
1 - prime reanimation protocols - 2CP - While this gem is gakk for our RP models. It is pretty good for an Overlord (and no, you don't need RP to use them them). Basically when you take an injury roll you can add an extra die and your opponent has to pick to lowest die. Why is this good? Well it stops your commander dying on 4/5/6 by making the opponent pick the lowest die roll. Pretty solid gem if your being attacked with a weapon with lots of DMG
2 - entropic strike - 1CP - when a model is reduced to 0 wounds and you make the injury roll you can add +1 to the roll. This lets us kill things on a 3+ before modifiers giving the Olord a 66% chance of killing whatever he is in CC with before doing the math on the 3 injury rolls. So, see that commander you want dead? Charge, do dmg, pop gem, Necrons are OP.
3 - disruption fields - 1CP - +1 strength for this model in CC. Makes the Olord s6 and with Voidscythe you are now S12 basically meaning anything you fight is getting wounded on 2s. EVERYTHING. This gem pairs really well with Vendetta. For those that did not buy the Necron Commander Box. This is what Vendetta does;
Vendetta - 1CP - if your army includes an Overlord, pick A faction keyword e.g. Tyranids. Your overlord gets to re-roll 1s to hit and wound against all model with that Faction keyword. So, when paired with Disruption fields, for 2CPs you get hitting on 3s re-rolling 1s (unless you have a way to get +1 to hit) plus wounding on 2s, re-rolling 1s.
That's just amazing.
I will he doing tactic videos on all of the above plus move so if people have suggestions please let me know and I'll record whatever content you guys would like.
This really sounds nice! Our Overlord is almost an one man army
I just see a problem with the KT rules themselves...Actually you have your roster and pick units out of it AFTER you know the mission and more or less what your opponent takes...So if someone just tailors against the OLord and actually kills him its probably game over :/
Its still sounds like tons of fun to at least try it ones...
One LVL3 OLord plus 4Immortals and 1 Flayed one are exactly 200points
Might be worth trying out
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/10/30 15:54:12
You don't have to bring a commander unless stated otherwise. Some games only let you or your opponent bring a commander. T5, 5w, 3+/4++ and healing a wound a turn means that this guy is sticking around. Giving him Fortitude just makes him more tanky.
If you are able to pick your Killteam before a game, Pick your Overlord last. There are only several weapon with +6 S in KT and even if the Olord does get hit and wounded there is severl ways too reduce the dmg for injury rolls or pass on the dmg to another model e.g. Look Out Sir.
Odrankt wrote: You don't have to bring a commander unless stated otherwise.
But you know if your opponent will be required to take a Commander before picking your team.
"'players must agree how they are going to select their armies, and if any restrictions apply to the number and type of models they can use."
This is an actual rule in the actual rulebook. Quit whining about how you can imagine someone's army touching you in a bad place and play by the actual rules.
Freelance Ontologist
When people ask, "What's the point in understanding everything?" they've just disqualified themselves from using questions and should disappear in a puff of paradox. But they don't understand and just continue existing, which are also their only two strategies for life.
I'm wondering if anyone's come up against Deathguard successfully. I've fought them and lost twice in a row, now. Not that they wipe me out, but that I cannot wipe them, and thus they collect all the points.
Friday's game was a three-way that turned into 2v1 halfway through, and we still lost. The third party was Tau.
I had 2x Immortals (Tesla) as my leader and comms, 3x Immortals (Gauss), and 2x Flayed Ones (combat and zealot).
DG had four marines (leader with plasma, combat with some big cleaver, heavy with blight launcher, and the fourth had a heavy flamer, but was taken out with the first shot from the tau). And then had seven pox walkers.
Tau had a fusion stealth suit, two shield drones, three gun drones, a fire warrior and missile turret, two pathfinders (one with rail rifle), and the big pathfinder drone.
We all had small points that we held, but DG made it into the centre point (+3VP per round), and we could not budge him. Partly, this was poor rolling - my immortals loved their 1 and 2's, and the DG seemed to be making about 80% of their FNP rolls. But even then, it felt that there were just too many of them to take them down.
What would be one of their biggest disadvantages (their slowness - which necrons have too) is totally negated by the pox walkers having no guns, so they advance all the time. And two of the marines advance (heavy with assault, and one other). Whereas if anyone but my Flayed Ones advances, they cannot shoot. And if the FO are advancing, they are not charging!
A similar thing happened in the previous game. Same teams, but with Orks as the third party. They were slaughtered by both DG and Necron, but Necron couldn't move DG, and DG ran all over the board, resulting in the end game being Necron holding one point, and DG holding three.
So - any thoughts, tips? Similar stories? Or do I just keep doing the same thing, hoping that my silver march will eventually be successful?
In missions where you can win via it, kill the Pox Walkers and break him.
In most other missions, do the same, but also put flesh wounds on Plague Marines. Gauss Blasters are alright at that. Then hope enough shakens can win you the game.
In Recover Intelligence (what you played), concede at the end of Turn 3. You can't win that.
"'players must agree how they are going to select their armies, and if any restrictions apply to the number and type of models they can use."
This is an actual rule in the actual rulebook. Quit whining about how you can imagine someone's army touching you in a bad place and play by the actual rules.
Freelance Ontologist
When people ask, "What's the point in understanding everything?" they've just disqualified themselves from using questions and should disappear in a puff of paradox. But they don't understand and just continue existing, which are also their only two strategies for life.
DarknessEternal wrote: In missions where you can win via it, kill the Pox Walkers and break him.
Yeah, I was trying to do this. Sure, he rolled way too many 6's when taking his FNP, and my shooting game was off (missing far more than hitting), but I was pretty much shooting at two Pox Walkers with each of my Immortals each round I could. (he charged, then killed, my Comms in Round 2, but the rest of them fought for the entire battle). Only once or twice did I even bother to go after the marines. He rolled to break twice (rerolled once, but passed twice), and had a pox walker stunned for the last two rounds. Marines either died (from Tau), or he spent a CP to ensure it didn't need to check.
Maybe I need a larger sample size, but it felt that even those 3pt guys were tougher and more mobile than their points would suggest!
In Recover Intelligence (what you played), concede at the end of Turn 3. You can't win that.
Marines either died (from Tau), or he spent a CP to ensure it didn't need to check.
How?
"'players must agree how they are going to select their armies, and if any restrictions apply to the number and type of models they can use."
This is an actual rule in the actual rulebook. Quit whining about how you can imagine someone's army touching you in a bad place and play by the actual rules.
Freelance Ontologist
When people ask, "What's the point in understanding everything?" they've just disqualified themselves from using questions and should disappear in a puff of paradox. But they don't understand and just continue existing, which are also their only two strategies for life.