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Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






SoCal, USA!

You forgot that Cap 1 was also the lead-in for Avengers 1.

IMO, Cap 1 did just fine. Watching Cap 1 gives a clear insight into who he is, where he's from, what he's about, and what he can do. Red skull was a good choice, being an iconic villain, and setting up Hydra for Cap 2.

As Guardians 2 showed, origin stories are better when abbreviated, and needing to do 2 Cap movies just takes too long. If Guardians can do a good job introducing a full team in one movie, why does Cap need 2 movies?

   
Made in us
Pragmatic Primus Commanding Cult Forces






Southeastern PA, USA

Those are very different films and very different things were required of each film. Which makes...a difference.

My exercise there was about showing how you can tell better stories if you don't have 'cinematic universe' constraints.

We also shouldn't downplay budget constraints. They were real during Marvel's phase 1, and probably had more than a little to do with some of the abbreviated and/or meh WWII action sequences.

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Made in us
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MN (Currently in WY)

I know I am in the minority, but I really liked Cap 1 and the montage. It captured the Hollywood feel of the time, and the montage was like an old serials highlight reel.

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Ridin' on a Snotling Pump Wagon






WW2 isn’t the interesting thing about Cap, so much as his ‘man out of time’.

Ultimately, he’s still the same Steve Rogers we saw in Brooklyn. His spirit and moral compass is often challenged, but never really changed.

You don’t need more than a single movie to express that and set it in the audience’s mind. And look at his trilogy. It’s all been about challenging his world view, rather than him physically. He doesn’t really have the same journey as say, Tony Stark, who goes from an entirely self centred doofus, to a flawed man at least doing his best. And that’s ably demonstrated with the line about ‘become comfortable with absolutely no oversight’ upon his return Iron Man, right up to his side taking during Civil War.

But Cap doesn’t need that. Because he started out as a good man. He has no redemption, because none was needed. His challenge is always to stay true to himself and his ideals.

   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






SoCal, USA!

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
WW2 isn’t the interesting thing about Cap, so much as his ‘man out of time’.

Ultimately, he’s still the same Steve Rogers we saw in Brooklyn. His spirit and moral compass is often challenged, but never really changed.

You don’t need more than a single movie to express that and set it in the audience’s mind. And look at his trilogy. It’s all been about challenging his world view, rather than him physically. He doesn’t really have the same journey as say, Tony Stark, who goes from an entirely self centred doofus, to a flawed man at least doing his best. And that’s ably demonstrated with the line about ‘become comfortable with absolutely no oversight’ upon his return Iron Man, right up to his side taking during Civil War.

But Cap doesn’t need that. Because he started out as a good man. He has no redemption, because none was needed. His challenge is always to stay true to himself and his ideals.


QFT. Note that "man out of time" is supposed to illustrate timeless ideals and virtues. If Cap changes to much, it's a disservice, which is the fundamental problem with Nazi Cap.

Also, Marvel loves fish out of water stories, hence Donald Blake and Sub-Mariner and Silver Surfer and the Thing disguised by wearing an overcoat, etc.

Speaking of budget, I rewatched Iron Man 1 last night. For being 10 years old, it holds up quite well, due to the practical effects. Although, there are moments where the CG is showing... Still good, and fitting as early armor.

   
Made in us
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MN (Currently in WY)

I went back and watched all the Marvel movies in order over a few weeks, and they all hang together really well and build a long arc for the characters. I was really impressed upon re-watch, even more impressed then watching them over 10 years how coherent and put together they are.

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Made in gb
Mighty Vampire Count






UK

 gorgon wrote:
Those are very different films and very different things were required of each film. Which makes...a difference.

My exercise there was about showing how you can tell better stories if you don't have 'cinematic universe' constraints.

We also shouldn't downplay budget constraints. They were real during Marvel's phase 1, and probably had more than a little to do with some of the abbreviated and/or meh WWII action sequences.


Ah but then we get "Directorial visions" and drek like Bats vs Sups.

The Marvel Cinematic films are on the whole brilliantly done both individually and as a series. However Cap A 1 (for me) is a weak element compared to the others.

The second one is much better as the plot is far better and the bad guys far more interesting and effective. Cap A works ok in the first and very well in the 2nd - I would argue he really comes to life in the Avengers (pun intended)

All very subjective though

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/09/07 16:01:33


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Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






SoCal, USA!

 Mr Morden wrote:
 gorgon wrote:
My exercise there was about showing how you can tell better stories if you don't have 'cinematic universe' constraints.

We also shouldn't downplay budget constraints. They were real during Marvel's phase 1, and probably had more than a little to do with some of the abbreviated and/or meh WWII action sequences.


Ah but then we get "Directorial visions" and drek like Bats vs Sups.


Batman vs Superman 2: Doomsday - Dawn of Justice had plenty of budget, but far more studio meddling. It's exactly what the Marvel movies would be if Avi Arad were still running the show, instead of Kevin Fiege. Except that the CGI and effects would be even worse, because he'd probably have pinched more pennies.

Had Warner simply let Snyder tell his stories without interference, we wouldn't have dreck like (career) Suicide Skwad and BvS and JL. To claim that the DCEU represents Snyder's vision is a falsehood that is only supported by Snyder being gentlemanly and taking a handsome paycheck to cover for the Warner Execs who fethed his movies.

Cap is kinda like the Hulk, great as a supporting character, because he's more of a concept than an actual character. Except the Hulk has more character development.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/09/07 19:20:36


   
Made in gb
Mighty Vampire Count






UK

 JohnHwangDD wrote:
 Mr Morden wrote:
 gorgon wrote:
My exercise there was about showing how you can tell better stories if you don't have 'cinematic universe' constraints.

We also shouldn't downplay budget constraints. They were real during Marvel's phase 1, and probably had more than a little to do with some of the abbreviated and/or meh WWII action sequences.


Ah but then we get "Directorial visions" and drek like Bats vs Sups.


Batman vs Superman 2: Doomsday - Dawn of Justice had plenty of budget, but far more studio meddling. It's exactly what the Marvel movies would be if Avi Arad were still running the show, instead of Kevin Fiege. Except that the CGI and effects would be even worse, because he'd probably have pinched more pennies.

Had Warner simply let Snyder tell his stories without interference, we wouldn't have dreck like (career) Suicide Skwad and BvS and JL. To claim that the DCEU represents Snyder's vision is a falsehood that is only supported by Snyder being gentlemanly and taking a handsome paycheck to cover for the Warner Execs who fethed his movies.

Cap is kinda like the Hulk, great as a supporting character, because he's more of a concept than an actual character. Except the Hulk has more character development.


Justice League is (IMO) a great film - its up there with the better Marvel films in terms of enjoyment (Iron Man, Avengers)

Suicide Squad starts well and then about half way falls apart. bats vs Sups is poor - mainly due to Loopy Lex ruining the film every single horrific moment he is on screen.

I AM A MARINE PLAYER

"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos

"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001

www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/528517.page

A Bloody Road - my Warhammer Fantasy Fiction 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






SoCal, USA!

I think Skwad starts not so well. MovieBob says it way better than I could:


   
Made in gb
Ridin' on a Snotling Pump Wagon






Suicide Squad is just awful.

Terrible Joker. Awful CGI villains. Carla Delveigne dancing poorly for no real discernible reason. Killer Croc looking like a Mario Movie Goomba.

Spoiler:


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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2018/09/07 19:50:34


   
Made in gb
Mighty Vampire Count






UK

As you know I have no interest in what any reviewer says and place no value in them.

I liked it, really enjoyed the start, the interplay , the fun the characters - but I also had no investment in any of them so they were all new to me.

Found the SS joker far more of a proper Joker than the dull super precog that that Heath ledger portrayed. Far more interesting and actually killed people

I would agree carla was wsted in the second half which is why I said it went down hill but she is great early in the movie

But absolutely nothing was as bad as Loopy lex - that was just gak thrown at the screen.


I AM A MARINE PLAYER

"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos

"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001

www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/528517.page

A Bloody Road - my Warhammer Fantasy Fiction 
   
Made in au
Anti-Armour Swiss Guard






Newcastle, OZ

Margot Robbie's spangly hotpants were nice.

The rest of SS ... eminently skippable.

Cara Delevigne was wasted (but actors gotta eat, pride don't pay the bills).

I'm OVER 50 (and so far over everyone's BS, too).
Old enough to know better, young enough to not give a ****.

That is not dead which can eternal lie ...

... and yet, with strange aeons, even death may die.
 
   
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 JohnHwangDD wrote:
I think Skwad starts not so well. MovieBob says it way better than I could:



Don't hold back, tell us what you really think...

I was holding off buying it to catch it on Netflix. This makes me VERY glad I did.

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Made in gb
Mighty Vampire Count






UK

"Shrug" Enjoyed it the cinema - enjoyed in on DVD.

Loads worse - some of which is hoisted high by "reviewers"

I AM A MARINE PLAYER

"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos

"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001

www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/528517.page

A Bloody Road - my Warhammer Fantasy Fiction 
   
Made in gb
Sadistic Inquisitorial Excruciator






 Mr Morden wrote:
"Shrug" Enjoyed it the cinema - enjoyed in on DVD.

Loads worse - some of which is hoisted high by "reviewers"


When you make sweeping statements about “reviewers”, you may as well just say “people”. It feels like these days, the world is full of “reviewers”, but just because you own a camera and know how to upload to YouTube, it doesn’t mean that you know what you’re talking about.
   
Made in us
Missionary On A Mission





Suicide Squad was really, really, bad. I think it barely counts as a movie and relied too much on the soundtrack. Will Smith is enjoyable, but it totally missed the point of the comic. Waller was super incompetent, shortsided, and was over the top evil. It would have been much better if they kept it to the source material: Basically deniable super spies promoting American interests through violence. They didn't need a "save the world" plot with a "sky beam."

Jared Leto's Joker broke the cardinal rule of a good Joker: You have to be funny. He was not funny or frightening. He was just annoying.

On Topic:

Marvel movies are really solid right now. While I grew up following mostly DC, the marvel movies have been the most consistently entertaining. I liked Infinity War part one and am looking forward to how it will be resolved.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/09/10 15:40:05


 
   
Made in us
Pragmatic Primus Commanding Cult Forces






Southeastern PA, USA

SS was recut by a trailer company IIRC. No joke. The studio decided it wanted the film to be more like the fun tone in the trailer. So they had the trailer company's editors take a stab at the entire film alongside David Ayer working on his darker-toned cut. Then they tested both versions.

That's how fethed up things were at WB at the time. And the kind of feth-up that got Walter Hamada put in charge of the DC properties. While he seems to have a much steadier hand, the proof will be in the pudding.


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Best Appearance - GW Baltimore GT 2008, Colonial GT 2012

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