Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.
2020/05/20 22:14:34
Subject: New CW Arrowverse show greenlit: Batwoman!
There, I changed the title. Now we can discuss everything from how bonkers Legends of Tomorrow is, to how the Flash Blu-Ray will have the complete Crisis on Infinite Earth's yet the Arrow Season 8 Blu-Ray didn't for some stupid reason...
insaniak wrote: Let down mostly by the villain not being particularly interesting...
Alice is one of the strongest parts of the show. Her and Mary, as it turns out.
It's Sophie that makes you fall asleep.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/05/20 22:15:43
Yeah, Alice is Great, her dynamic with Kate is probably the most second most important Batwoman relationship and no matter what happens with the show, I'm really glad to see that done on TV and done so well.
THE most important Batwoman relationship in my view is Kate and Jacob... Which, to be perfectly honest... Has kinda been a bit of a disappointment in the episodes I've seen so far.
THE, THE key thing with Jacob is him finding out Kate's Batwoman early on and in the space of a few seconds going from.
"WHAT THE HELL KATE ARE YOU INSANE WHY ARE YOU DOING THIS.... OK, deep breath, how can I help?"
And Mary has certainly been a fun addition to the show as a peer Kate can talk to.
Sophie, yeah, Sophie's rubbish. Disappointing and boring knock-off Renee Montoya.
Montoya should have basically been the second lead of the show with Victor Sage being a regularly recurring frenemy as a slowburn, long term plotline.
While I, overall, watch Batwoman and do find it ok and enjoyable enough, the main thing that I'm always struck with with watching it is, "y'all think you're better writers than Greg Rucka and, you're really not."
My issue with Batwoman, which did subside quite a bit in the last 3 or so episodes this season, is that it was Kate & Friends, and not a Batwoman show.
When the show started acting like a comic book show it improved greatly. Angsty Kate is angsty and mopes around with her friends didn't have much appeal.
I made it about halfway through the first season before I got bored with it. Just way too similar to every other CW show in that there were 5 or 6 heartfelt speeches in every episode and I didn't find many of the characters likeable in the slightest.
In fact, while I used to watch all the shows in their entirety, now I just skip through episodes of The Flash to get to the interesting bits and abandoned all the other shows. Could be that I've just grown out of them but it seems like there is a lot of excellent TV being produced now that just really puts the CW stuff to shame!
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/05/21 14:20:17
Legends kind of annoys me because in the same Arrowverse where Flash talks about the profound side effects time travel and even slight changes can have, the Legends are doing... that.
Yeah legends kinda doesn't fit Arrowverse as fun as it is.
It also got kinda....... lame halfway through 3rd season with the final fight being a big Redeemer.
It started off as a way to deal with too many chart from the main show, good idea, but then they brought in too many aswell. It's fun but......I can see why
Personally Supergirl is my favorite, Wokeness and all.
Supergirl's great fun, and has had very 3 strong years in a row (season 3 didn't stick the landing, but eh, not everything works out). It's politics is the most overt, but that's part of the charm, because it's... well... I've already explained why:
ME! wrote:Berlanti politics, other than being unoriginal and boring (and easily defeated), tend to bring their shows to a grinding halt to deliver that week's Message™. Then the show just carries on as normal. Makes them really easy to ignore.
... so if you can ignore it, Supergirl is loads of fun. Killing Jeremiah off-screen was a no-no though. As is the un-personing of certain characters (the other two Lanes).
Legends didn't start well. A lot of people didn't like Vandal Savage (I did) and thought that the Hawk characters were dull (they were). It clicked from the second season onwards though, and has never stopped being silly.
As far as time travel contradictions with The Flash? Rip Hunter explained all of that. Certain things are set in stone, others aren't, and some can be if left long enough. Barry powers through time like a fething freight train high on super-cocaine. Guy doesn't know how to stop. The application of the time ship is more of a scalpel... that's on fire.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/05/22 09:30:45
Plus, the Legends have Flashpointed like... 3 times so far. They're just slightly better at screwing things up for the better fixing it.
Personally, I wasn't a big fan of season 4, it was just TOO silly. There were some good ones with a point in there, sure (The Japan episode for example), but overall, yeah, too silly.
Season 5 is better though, they've managed a stronger balance between silly and having a point.
I think my favourite right now though is Flash, Season 5 and 6 have been great from what I've seen. The move to shorter storyarcs in season 6 has really helped the show, instead of things feeling like they're strung out forever.
I do need to get caught up on Supergirl/Legends sometime. I fell behind on those when I was working on some big project I wanted done, and now I’m a season+ behind on both, and I’m bad about catching up on stuff I’m behind on.
So who watched the Stargirl premier? I enjoyed it well enough. Good effects. I really like the potential of her fighting style with the gymnastics and the staff that can move or fix itself in space. The tone is weird, like it’s nostalgia bait from a couple/few decades ago, but also we still have smart phones and fortnite and modern tech.
I never got into Legends simply because its so so first season came right when the other shows were losing steam. Sitting through the Damien Darhk nonsense was tedious enough, and while Flash was okay, it was starting to devolve into full "speedster villain" parody already. Giving the show a second chance didn't make much sense when I was giving up on the rest of them with Flash and Supergirl's poor showings that year.
Legends i think got really good when they didnt start introducing the Villains until the later half of the seasons.
Flash, Arrow and some supergirl(Although they kinda avoided this problem) in the later half of seasons had problems in which they would want to start racheting up the tension with the main villain and having more confrontations, but they would end up wiith the hero losing everytime, so it got tedious/frusterating.
Legends avoided that by being a monster of the week with the villains being part of why the monsters existed.
I do love the characters of legends, its just a shame they keep getting rid of them. only 3 of the original 8 are left, Wally West didnt come back and poor Nate cant keep a love interest.
AduroT wrote: I do need to get caught up on Supergirl/Legends sometime. I fell behind on those when I was working on some big project I wanted done, and now I’m a season+ behind on both, and I’m bad about catching up on stuff I’m behind on.
So who watched the Stargirl premier? I enjoyed it well enough. Good effects. I really like the potential of her fighting style with the gymnastics and the staff that can move or fix itself in space. The tone is weird, like it’s nostalgia bait from a couple/few decades ago, but also we still have smart phones and fortnite and modern tech.
I mean, the tone makes sense when you have the big company called "American Dream"(that immediately started throwing warning signs up for me. ). There's a few towns that I've been to in my life that fall into that kind of tone.
I think Luke Wilson was a solid pick. I'm hoping we get to see a bit more of the JSA back in its Golden Age, but it does look like it will be a solid show so far.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Supergirl's great fun, and has had very 3 strong years in a row (season 3 didn't stick the landing, but eh, not everything works out). It's politics is the most overt, but that's part of the charm, because it's... well... I've already explained why:
ME! wrote:Berlanti politics, other than being unoriginal and boring (and easily defeated), tend to bring their shows to a grinding halt to deliver that week's Message™. Then the show just carries on as normal. Makes them really easy to ignore.
... so if you can ignore it, Supergirl is loads of fun. Killing Jeremiah off-screen was a no-no though. As is the un-personing of certain characters (the other two Lanes).
.
I personally never felt the problem with that. I felt as if season 4 was strong enough with its messege and villain woven together perfectly. Not to mention the episode of the villain becoming the villain.
Their Gun episode and the Enviromentalism of season 1 where.....bad.
hotsauceman1 wrote: Their Gun episode and the Enviromentalism of season 1 where.....bad.
Not nearly as bad as Arrow's gun control episode that ended with Mayor Queen announcing that they had come up with a gun control proposal that made both sides happy... and then in no way explained what that was. It was such a cop-out episode.
hotsauceman1 wrote: Their Gun episode and the Enviromentalism of season 1 where.....bad.
Not nearly as bad as Arrow's gun control episode that ended with Mayor Queen announcing that they had come up with a gun control proposal that made both sides happy... and then in no way explained what that was. It was such a cop-out episode.
Sometimes i wonder if those episodes come as a directive from up on high, and writers that are not versed in the politics just completely flub them.
However, I just finished infinite crisis and i have some ramblings,
Spoiler:
So, the biggest thing i liked about the arrowverse and their shows was them focusing on lesser known heroes or heroes that are Adjacent to the big 3(Wonder Women, Batman, Superman) So i was kinda upset when last year they made superman a big player, and he was even more so this time, along with his main vallain, which upset me. Adding Batman into the mix, who is the lamest looking one yet, upset. Especially when the mentioned the "Bat of The Future" I thought they meant Batman Beyond, but alas no, we get marlboro man Batman. With a scene I felt didn't add much. The legends, despite being one of the main shows, was not featured much. Only Sara and Ray. None of the Actual legends we follow show up. Did they not want to pay but have the wave rider still? It was weird. Overall the Crisis felt less, epic......Like really, his giant evil lair was under the city powered by Barry Allen from the 1990s running fast? Nash quickly becoming Pariah was......OK......... Black Lightning was dope, made me wanna watch his show. Maybe we will get Static Shock HAHA All in All, Despite Olivers ACTOR being in it the most, The Green Arrow himself was rarelt in it, felt like a bad send off, all Mindwiped or Ascended versions of him. Also, stop skirting around things Arrowverse, if you are going to have batman, why cant you say "The Joker Gassed the Building" Kinda Cool that all those shows are now in a way the Arrowverse. Cool I guess. Honestly, it tried to get all these characters time to shine when they really should have focused on the leads of each show, Supergirl, Sara&Ray, Oliver, Flash, Batgirl. Also what was with Cho? Was that his name, i just finished it and i cant remember........Is he a comic reference?
So, Batwoman isnt coming to netflix, apparently all new shows in Arrowverse that premiered prior to fall 2019 are still going to be on netflix, but others are going to HBO max. Really, Really, Lame.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/05/23 06:33:16
In the comics, Ryan Choi is the second ATOM (Fun fact: Nora mentions him in Flash Season 5 as being the person who designed Barry's Flash ring).
WIth Brandon Routh leaving Legends of Tomorrow, he's probably going to be a successor there. Although, he has been featured more acting alongside Flash characters, so, who knows...
From some side references I've picked up, there's a 'crossover premium' for actors working across shows, so typically having the full Legends cast honestly is too expensive for them (And probably a big reason for them not being on Elseworlds).
But we did have Ray, Sara, Mick and Constantine, so I think that was a fair number.
As far as I know, it's still not possible for the UK to watch Crisis on Infinite Earths actually in order. - It's not even showing up on the UK edition of the Arrow boxset
It was less that there where less legends, I get why alot of characters are going to be put to the wayside.
My confusion was why was there an alternate waverider with Snarts voice and alternate Mick Rory?
If they needed those, why not just....use them? It seemed lame.
Could they not get the Gideon actor?
Like i said, this was full of too many overt refrences for me to really enjoy, DCEU, Ryan Choi, 90s flash. Really to much for me to enjoy, enough to get me un engaged and look up "Ok what is he a refrence too.
Still mad there is no batman beyond, cameo. Bat of the future......Grrr
hotsauceman1 wrote: Adding Batman into the mix, who is the lamest looking one yet, upset... marlboro man Batman.
Are you talking about Bruce Wayne as played by Kevin Conroy? You get why that was significant right?
Compel wrote: It's not even showing up on the UK edition of the Arrow boxset
It's not on the Blu-Ray for Season 8, which is completely bs. The other crossovers were included in previous seasons, but not in this one for some dumb reason. It will be on the Flash's Blu-Ray so... great!
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/05/23 18:23:58
He just doesnt look like Batman.
He looks like someones uncle. But like i said, I dont CARE if these are significant for some obscure reference, if it doesnt make since. This was meant to be the culmination of these shows, and it idnt feel like it when they thrown random reference after random refrence in there.
Did we need to see DCEU flash.
Why was it some Random Flash from another show dies and not Jay Garrick from earth-2? That would have had more impact.
and the Antimoniter is defeated by Tech-Teching him. Kinda lame.
Kinda? Didnt recognize his voice or knew who he voiced.
And the fact that if they are implying that is the same batman he voiced..........then it makes me even more mad.
hotsauceman1 wrote: It was less that there where less legends, I get why alot of characters are going to be put to the wayside.
My confusion was why was there an alternate waverider with Snarts voice and alternate Mick Rory?
If they needed those, why not just....use them? It seemed lame.
Could they not get the Gideon actor?
Like i said, this was full of too many overt refrences for me to really enjoy, DCEU, Ryan Choi, 90s flash. Really to much for me to enjoy, enough to get me un engaged and look up "Ok what is he a refrence too.
Still mad there is no batman beyond, cameo. Bat of the future......Grrr
Different strokes for different folks, I guess. All of those references were precisely what made this crossover so cool.
Yeah, The way i see it is i like these cross overs because it gets chharacters interacting we dont normally see interacting, including the side characters.
Like i said, it takes it away from me. Why should I be upset that the old man flash died? He was a one off from before. Yeah he has the same face as the other Flash, it wasnt him.
Why should I be upset that this batman fell from grace? I never followed this Batman. Why should i feel upset the Ray Palmer Superman lost people, I never watched that one go.
Refrences are cool and i love them, but some feel, off.
Also, can someone tell me what refrence was that to the Depowered Superman? cant find it haha.
So, I'm curious - how would you prefer them to have shown that this crisis affected different realities without showing some of those different realities?
insaniak wrote: So, I'm curious - how would you prefer them to have shown that this crisis affected different realities without showing some of those different realities?
Well, we have been to multiple earths, Earth 1, earth 38, Earth 2, the Earth 3 Flash. We see earth 38 destroyed and earth 3 is mentioned, Black lightning is shown too.
I would argue that would be enough.
And we didnt really see much about how it affected those realities. They popped in for a Vignette and left.
5000pts 
6000pts 
3000pts
). There's a few towns that I've been to in my life that fall into that kind of tone.
