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 Azreal13 wrote:
Not taking past it, just disregarding it as a typical, hair on fire, millennial type response to something that should be so minor as to be inconsequential. Sure there's things in things that might hurt us if used inappropriately. There's thing in things that might hurt us if used as directed sometimes, and sometimes we don't find out until it's too late.

My point was that he was trying to justify using a reference in a context that was inappropriate to try and strengthen his argument, and it's largely a pointless thing to argue over anyway, many of these cancer studies are inconclusive or based on such small studies or small margins as to be meaningless.

Additionally, getting so worked up over other people being stupid is a sure fire way to insanity. Eating tiny amounts of paint is about the least destructive self destructive thing I can conceive of, and anyone who acts surprised that there might be things in the paint they're eating that aren't good for them is probably giving Darwinism a boost.

And why not lead with that? That's all fairly reasonable, minus the veiled petty insults. For something you consider largely pointless, it's confusing that you focused on it instead of the substance of the discussion.

If you're confused, probably best not dwell in it then. Perhaps you don't work the same way, but I don't have a whiteboard with all my ideas and arguments planned out before I enter a thread, I tend to respond what grabs my attention rather than work to some great blueprint.

I don't think anyone functions that way, but the internet would be a lot less absurd if people took maybe a few seconds to think before they speak... no wait a minute that's not the internet that's everywhere.

The most important thing seems to be that the paints in question should not contain lead/chromium/cobalt/Iranian enriched uranium/etc., are not being recalled for having been found to contain those, there is no available proof they contain these substances anyway, and thus no reason to believe they are any health hazard (be it via inhalation, skin contact, or indeed minimal amounts of ingestion).

I'm not claiming "brush licking" is definitely safe. All I'm saying is that there is, at present, no reason to believe it poses any credible threat to anyone's wellbeing (in the context of Citadel/Vallejo/Army Painter type acrylic paints). Some may choose to err on the side of caution, for fear of contamination of the paints or the fact that some components in the paints will later be found to be more dangerous than expected. As I see it, those hypotheticals could apply to most things in life, so I'd rather focus my worries on more pressing issues. I personally will continue to put the brush in my mouth, not because I'm a maverick, not because I don't value my health, but because there has of yet not been shown any evidence telling me why I shouldn't. Keeping a brush tip tidy may seem a small gain, but that still weighs heavier than the costs, which at present appear to be zero.

1) you dont know how old i am.

2) you dont know the basis of my experience. Though if you took the things i posted about myself in this thread as true you would note my experience of near a decade working with paints.

3) hats is right. My first post about lead and cancer that you went on this about was about the whole thing not being about lead or cancer. It doesnt matter if paint is a carcinogen. It doesnt matter if lead is in it. The issue with eating paint isnt a question of will it give you cancer or not. The issue is simply that it is full of unknown quantities of unknown substances every single one of which are not designed for your consumption. Do you dispute that?

If no, then why the feth would anyone in this thread encourage anyone else to lick their brushes dunked in dirty paint water and used to paint?

 RiTides wrote:


For myself, this is a habit I've been meaning to kick anyway. I'm curious, what do people use instead of licking their brush tips - brush soap to sculpt it back to shape when done painting? But what about in the middle of a painting session?

It's so easy to lick the paintbrush tip, that I'd be much more likely to be successful in changing habits if I had an alternative!

My answer here. https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/60/777739.page#10502128 It really works.

Brush licking is an odd habit to defend or be proud of.

[Edit to add] It's like being proud to be a booger eater.

 LordofHats wrote:

 Elemental wrote:
Are you sure you want to be defending someone who does that sort of thing?

I literally said I don't think the OP's motives or reasons matter. That's not a defense. It's stating they're irrelevant. The only defense there is calling bad logic bad logic, to which the OP is still irrelevant.

They can be a bald face liar, and it doesn't change that putting chemicals in your mouth is dancing in the danger zone. All this "OP must be lying" and "it's not dangerous" and "why are you defending the OP" talk is missing the forest for the trees. You shouldn't need a reliable source to tell you sticking chemicals in your mouth maybe isn't the safest thing to do. Seriously, did the OP just shoot your dogs or something? You're all making this bizarrely personal for something that should be known and done even without a PSA. Recalls on paint for toxic stuff finding its way in are yearly. They happen all the time. Maybe it's not hobby paints now, but whenever it is who knows when maybe never, it's going to be kind of childish that anyone was this defensive about the possibility.

I'm being cranky because the OP is trolling--and I don't care about their rep, I'm just reading what they're posting right now. I'm not going to take yet another health scare story seriously without evidence, when I'm already pretty much saturated with fear of the world and every single substance in it. This one has no evidence, so I choose to dismiss it rather than inflict even more fear upon myself. When you add to that their incredibly condescending, baiting tone, it's clear that they're not worth taking seriously for a moment.

 timetowaste85 wrote:
Personally, I don’t think MajorTom is trolling. I like MajorTom. He’s been an awesome member of the community and a Mod since I’ve been on the site. But I DO think not being willing to share the information is a bit of BS.

MajorTom11 is lying about something? How is that news?

I know Tom is catching a lot of heat here (possibly from previously being a mod, as I can't see where the comment above mine would be coming from otherwise).

But while obviously his not being able to share the evidence means a lot of folks won't take him seriously, I'd like to point out this is only his third thread started in Dakka Discussions in 6 years. Of the others, one was a similar public warning, about a scammer who plagued Dakka for years until he was finally ferreted out - and that thread absolutely helped the community with an issue about which much was unknown. It is actually the main reason the scammer finally abandoned Dakka as a target, I think!

So again, it's totally fair to say someone won't take the warning seriously without seeing the evidence. But Tom is one of the most trustworthy people on this site, and you can easily see it in the history I mentioned above. So, for me at least, that's enough to take it seriously and kick a habit I've been meaning to, anyway.

I also have a feeling some of the google searches / references above about paint formulas which have since been updated are probably close to the mark. But I have plenty of paints from before the dates mentioned, so not taking any chances personally!

That seems unnecessarily harsh.

I stand with MajorTom!!!

 Bookwrack wrote:

 timetowaste85 wrote:
Personally, I don’t think MajorTom is trolling. I like MajorTom. He’s been an awesome member of the community and a Mod since I’ve been on the site. But I DO think not being willing to share the information is a bit of BS.

MajorTom11 is lying about something? How is that news?

I can't recall anyone before this thread ever calling me a liar... wrong sure, but not a liar, ever. Well except Daniel Mandelbaum but I mean... c'mon

Gotta admit that one gave me a chuckle Bookwrack gg lol

Major Tom, as a fellow Tom, I neither believe you a troll, nor do I believe you a liar. I think you are probably well intentioned, and this is your best approach.

My perspective, is that people ought to worry about problems. Brush licking isn’t a problem. It doesn’t hurt you. There’s a reason there are anti-smoking campaigns, and there aren’t anti-brush-licking campaigns.

It is my anecdotal observation, that people need to experience fearful situations and painful situations so that they can appreciate and understand what other people go through. If we train people to be fearful of harmless things, then we do them a disservice. We train them to believe that “this scary dangerous thing” is bad. So they don’t have a sense of the grey area between good and bad.

I’ve had a long day of looking after other people’s kids. My son’s birthday party with his friends was today, I’m drained and feel the cohesion of my thoughts disintegrating.

It is likely my “chaotic” nature that rebels against the need for “lawful” folks to prefer yes and no answers. Yes, consuming anything in excess is bad. No, licking a brush is not consuming to excess. I just find this kind of “don’t do this harmless thing because it has a non-zero chance of causing harm if this other non-zero chance thing occurs” to grate on me in a way that just feels intrusive somehow. Like it tries to take away personal responsibility for actions because people can’t be “trusted” to make decisions at all. Which is, I suppose, the core conflict between “lawful” and “chaotic” personalities.

First of all, please let me say I appreciate the civility, the presentation of your argument, all of it. Thank you very much for that Brother Tom. 100% genuine there man, just in case it comes across as anything but.

To your point... I 1000% percent agree with you about scaremongering derived from 'preference/belief/faith' based pseudo science. I have gone after many many an anti-vaxxer, chem trailer, brown menacer etc etc. I so get it, why this bothers some of you.

If you guys will indulge me a second here though, think of it this way: As some people have mentioned in this thread, it is known that a company had a heavy metal contaminant in their paint a few years ago. This was not from me but a few others in this very thread. You guys can find it if you try, here and elsewhere.

If it was Lead in the paint, people would have gone ballistic. Because everyone knows Lead paint is bad. It's a thing. It's in the zeitgeist.

What if it was Arsenic in the paint in trace amounts? Or Mercury? Hell no! We all know those names, POISON right? I'm not willingly putting arsenic in my mouth, not even just a little bit.

Tell em it's Cadmium? meh.... not that big a deal... I don't get that much in my mouth.

Here is the thing boys. Cadmium is in the top 4 most dangerous, toxic heavy metals out there, in the same category as... drumroll... lead, mercury and arsenic. It gives you lovely little specific cancers too, among other problems.

So what I am telling you is the fact some of the bottles on your shelf, if they are from a few years back, could have a lead/mercury/arsenic equivalent in them? I HOPE it gets a bit harder to be 'no big deal' about it. I hope you feel that knowing that happened, that other people than me in this thread heard about it, knew it, is a legitimate cause of concern.

Like I said, this news is neither particularly new nor really particularly fresh. What concerned me, enough to start this thread, is that it didn't really seem to gain traction in the hobby just how bad getting CADMIUM in your mouth can be, and pretty quick. When I found out my safe-zone kid friendly paints had Cadmium in them, I was pissed. I knew from fine arts not to fek with that stuff.

On top of it, the information I received was more specific than the above which is already known, and I cannot share it, but the concern is not anecdotal or theoretical. I know that is a trigger for some of you, as it would be for me, but please, if you could, just for a second try to reason out legitimate reasons why i couldn't say anything more. One that isn't malicious, or self-aggrandizing ego work, one that is ethically motivated. I am sure you could come up with one or two that make sense, so at least give me the possibility that it is something positive and respectful, not trollish or condescending.

I probably should have gotten into the specifics of why Cadmium, common in fine arts paints, is such a threat in this hobby. Picasso wasn't sharpening his 2" flat head brush with his mouth back in the day. They also knew some paint was poison back then as a given. The culture surrounding it was different. It is the advent of our hobby and tiny brushes and supposedly non-toxic paints that gave rise to this habit and the nonchalance surrounding getting paint in your mouth.

All I am saying is it has ALREADY happened that a quite toxic heavy metal ended up in our kid safe paint supply. It was already supposed to be safe and ok. It was already supposed to be regulated. But it wasn't. That at least you can verify from more than just me. So, based on that, I choose to be cautious. You don't have to if you don't want to, smoking is just as bad but people (including me) have done it. You can go 20 years before it gets you. I choose to remove the risks, because I have perfectly viable alternatives that give me razor sharp brush points without putting anything in my mouth.

If you or anyone choose not to, I am completely ok with that. I just thought people should know so they can make a choice based in the already available facts. Which are, again, a large paint company had Cadmium in some paints, and that those paints, though older now, are still out there. If you want the name, it's in the thread and on the net.

Ok that was longer than expected and I know I said I would bow out of the thread, but at the risk of feeding trolls, I do care about this community, I would have wanted to know sooner than this. It is for those who feel the same and missed it the first time that I brought it up again.

Thank you, Brother Tom, for looking out for the community. Despite our different values / approaches, and although I doubt that I or anyone in our community is at risk of health concern from shaping a brush with our mouth, I believe the desire to help and concern for our wellbeing is at the core of your post.

I hope the future disentangles you from your potential ethical shackles / other reasons for withholding potential information.

Now please excuse me. Like watching a movie where someone smokes, all this talk of brush licking has given me a craving. I’m thinking it’s a Mephiston Red kind of night. Be well, Brother Tom.

(PS: Just in case, I’m also being genuine, in the unfortunate event that I sound sarcastic. My wife tells me that my “genuine” voice and “sarcastic” voice are hard to tell apart. Except for the Mephiston Red part which I hope comes across as a joke. )

It does, I am sarcastic as hell IRL, ask those other mods, no worries! Again, thanks for the civil debate, I appreciate it Brother Tom

I'm a guilty brush licker, been meaning to unlearn the habit. Are alternative useful hacks/tactics and solutions discussed in the thread other than using your mouth to make a good point?


Asking because I would rather avoid going back through 6 pages worth of unnecessary arguments(probably about semantics or nothing pertinent).

I gotcha -

 MajorTom11 wrote:
This at least is an answer I can give -

Generally so long as your brush is rinsed sufficiently, and you have kept paint away from the ferrule (the metal sleeve the bristles are housed in) you shouldn't have much trouble at all simply rolling the brush on tissue while damp to repoint perfectly. If you are having trouble, you have options such as rolling the brush on the back of your hand as I am sure you guys have seen many pro's do, as your body oils can condition the brush and make it hold together a bit better than water. If you are at wits end, then gross as it sounds, a little spit on the back of the hand will work too.

Brush cleaner should be applied between sessions in a thorough clean, the main goal of it is to break up semi dry and maybe even dry paint, particularly as tends to accumulate up towards the ferrule as time goes on. This is ultimately what messes up your brushes.

When you are done, re-point your brushes using one of the mentioned methods, the brush should be slightly moist with water, place it back in it's protective clear plastic sleeve or put it someplace it won't be jostled at all on the brush portion and as it dries it should retain the point and be conditioned to continue to do so.

#1 rule for 'you' care: Don't eat paint if you can help it. (Don't need to freak out if a little bit once in the while, but if you are going to town 5 nights a week for a few hours each, yeah you've got a habit there lol)

#1 rule for brush care: Keep paint away from the ferrule
#2 rule for brush care: don't squish and splay the bristles on a brush you want to keep a point on.

 greatbigtree wrote:

My perspective, is that people ought to worry about problems. Brush licking isn’t a problem. It doesn’t hurt you. There’s a reason there are anti-smoking campaigns, and there aren’t anti-brush-licking campaigns.

The reason there are anti smoking campaigns is because if you use the product they are marketing to you as intended it causes harmful effects to your body.

The reason there are not anti brush licking campaigns is because people who make paint tell you not to ingest paint. You have to go out of your way to do the thing they tell you not to do to get the problems.

Lich, please.

They put “hot” warnings on coffee cups and do-not eat warnings on desiccant. They label bags *directly on the bag* and tell you not to let babies play with bags because they might suffocate. I’m frankly surprised they don’t label knives “not to be used as a suppository.”

*Anything* that can potentially harm the user is plastered with warnings. Kinder Eggs (a chocolate shell with a toy inside) are not allowed to be sold in the USA because a kid might not understand the toy inside the chocolate is *not* for eating.

A *mostly* harmless plant has just recently begun being decriminalized/legalized in many parts of North America. It was made illegal for no credible reason (at the time) because fear.

My point is that I do not observe... no. It’s way too late and I’ve got to work tomorrow. At this point I’m arguing just to argue. You’re arguing yes or no without considering the space between in which no harm is the overwhelmingly probable outcome. I can’t change a fundamental perspective of reality by internet post. Good night, Lance.

I was a habitual paintbrush sucker, but I'm trying to break the habit now, and lately I've been using my thumb as a surface to get the right brush shape after rinsing instead. Its a had habit to break though.. I've even considered starting chewing gum so my mouth is too preoccupied to lick my brush. if a brush is cleaned and dried I dont think using lips to form a point is a big deal though.

I know about cadmium from my occupation. never realised it might be in paints though.

Well this all seems a bit Daily Mail without any actual proof. Moving on...

I think that this would have been pretty presented in a different manner. Instead of framed as "I have information I can't share," I think it would have better framed as a reminder that toxicity varies by concentration, and the QA on hobby paint may not be great, and that keeping paint ingestion minimal is wise.

I do like that there's a strong "Keep on lickin'!" contingent though.

There's a Forensic Files episode out there where a lady was given 400x the lethal dose of a heavy metal (I want to say thallium) by her doctor husband.

She survived, 'cause of the slow, methodical way she was exposed.

But yeah, you're totally gonna lose your hair and die with burning feet 'cause you licked a brush that might have been contaminated.

Because POISON, yo.

 queen_annes_revenge wrote:
I was a habitual paintbrush sucker, but I'm trying to break the habit now, and lately I've been using my thumb as a surface to get the right brush shape after rinsing instead. Its a had habit to break though.. I've even considered starting chewing gum so my mouth is too preoccupied to lick my brush. if a brush is cleaned and dried I dont think using lips to form a point is a big deal though.

I know about cadmium from my occupation. never realised it might be in paints though.

Having looked around the web a little, it seems to have been present in Vallejo paints up until half a decade or so ago. So if it's a new bottle, you're probably alright, but if you've got the older stuff (and some of it is probably still on sale in shops -paint don't expire!) - it might be best not to lick your brush when using it.

Paint absolutely expires. It's why I shake and check every bottle before I buy them...

 Red Corsair wrote:
Paint absolutely expires. It's why I shake and check every bottle before I buy them...

Well yes, but so do people, pyramids, and suns. I meant it more in a short-term nature. I'm still using some paints I bought a decade ago, and got a 12 year old Coat D'Arms paint out a shop the other day which was perfectly good. I imagine plenty of people have five to six year old Vallejo paints in their box.

I have a four-year old art paint from Dollarama that is still going strong.

Two of them, actually.

Bacteria and stuff growing in paint (or at least, the kind that might hurt you), is definitively not normal. As far as I know most paint is "good" until it completely dries out and even then you can revive the stuff a bit by adding water. If the issue is that there are still paints out there that have some heavy metal toxicity in them, and they're all years old, then the next smartest thing to do (setting aside the obvious) is to check for a manufacturing date on your paints. Make sure you don't have any from the manufacturer and years in question.

Or, take a look at the world around you and invest your energy into worrying about real problems instead.