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Made in us
Incorporating Wet-Blending






> So if you were him and your company was having these issues what would you do?

I'd do some research. Survey customers and see what they want. If they don't want what I can offer, then don't waste resources, such as creating new miniatures, or expecting more than half a million dollars for a product that doesn't have enough demand. Cutting, for example, miniatures, would leave the Zombicide and Cthulhu Wars IP's.

Card games do this all the time. The cheapest components are for 54-card decks. This means having to design the game or expansion around these limitations.

Nobody owes a creator funding. He is wise to have a 700K goal, but I think there were many things Monolith could have done earlier to prevent VS from getting to this point. I'd like to know better why he lost the rest of the company, including the break with Mythic.

Personally, I think the hobby game industry is in its maturity (especially when much of it was purchased by Asmodee, which had no experience in boardgames), and was saturated even before KS ("cult of the new"). Leaving an industry around its peak isn't always a bad thing...

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2020/01/15 04:45:56


I'm not going to get into another argument with someone who thinks the way *they* paint is the *only* way to paint, am I?? 
   
Made in au
Terrifying Doombull





Melbourne .au

 Monkeysloth wrote:
Oh, I agree. I don't think anyone should back unless they want what's offered and trust it will be completed.


Yah. I just wanted to sort of cut off the whole "poor game designer really needs and deserves our money because poor business decisions" thing that people tend to throw up, especially with actual places/charities that deserve much more attention right now - and for me, on my doorstep and in my air right outside the door!


Samko wrote:
 Azazelx wrote:
Agreed, Orlando. As a KS backer, those sorts of comments are also a fething big red flag when I'm looking at where to put my disposable income. I've lost enough money on KS at this point and had enough well meaning companies not fully deliver on their promised goods...
What he said is that if this KS doesn't fund, he would close business because they have made some profit and he could close monolith without any debt, and that the goal of the KS is so high because he doesn't want to be tempted to start the project with not enough fund to finish it.
To me it sounds rather comforting about their ability to deliver what's promised.
If zombicide was already available I may have backed as I have black plague and green horde. But I don't have conan adventure game so I'm not very enticed to pledge right now (though getting for 30$ in the pledge manger sounds tempting).


That's all well and good, but as I said, I've been burned more than once before by campaigns that definately had everything worked out and there was no chance of anything going wrong and them not delivering. Definately. For sure.

On top of that, I'm not after (yet) another Skirmish VS game. I've got plenty of those already - especially one that wants me to rebuy a lot of models that I alrteady own and in quitye a few cases have already painted. Now I certainly understand wanting to leverage the assets of the moulds that have been made and paid for, and I don't begrudge them for that - or for looking longer-term when the Batman and Conan licences disappear - but at the same time, I don't have any burning desite to spend US$300 on rebuying them, along with a system that I'm not especially interested in, even if it does (now) promise that it will cross over with other systems (ones I own a lot of, even in ZC and CW) eventually, in the indeterminite future. Probably via another KS. If the doors don't close before then.
I'd much have more for the co-op and even solo play in adventure game form than reboxed skirmish mode with multiple monopose soldiers...

I mean, I understand the whole "art vs commerce" issue/dilemma, but when the art is also (or primarily) a commodity with a target audience, then it really does need to be aimed at what that audience wants to purchase if it it intended for that commodity, that product, to be a successful and even ongoing source of revenue.

   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




cancelled. That was quick....
   
Made in us
Courageous Questing Knight





Central Cimmeria

I'm gutted. Been saving up for this one. I just don't understand all the people going on and on about redundant miniatures. The miniatures from old campaigns added $5 more per box. They gave old backers credits so the redundant miniatures were effectively free.

I've been trying to get all those cool miniatures from Conan for ages, and my chance just got cancelled.
   
Made in gb
[DCM]
Decrepit Dakkanaut




UK

Hopefully they'll have a think and come back again with a more focused approach

 
   
Made in us
Superior Stormvermin





Texas

 Gallahad wrote:
I'm gutted. Been saving up for this one. I just don't understand all the people going on and on about redundant miniatures. The miniatures from old campaigns added $5 more per box. They gave old backers credits so the redundant miniatures were effectively free.

I've been trying to get all those cool miniatures from Conan for ages, and my chance just got cancelled.


I concur with the complaints about the duplicate miniatures...I have no issue with lots more of the various figures...even the characters. Since I usually do not paint the boardgame pieces, spare characters end up on the painting desk instead. So more is better (says the guy with a 25 year backlog...)

I do hope that they take a hard look at what they want to do...the project was, in their own words, a maze. People don't like complicated projects...that Batman 2 was a mess, but still funded due to people liking Batman, but I think a couple of simple pledges and a limited number of add-ons would be beneficial to all. I get that they want to monetize the molds they already have...I want them to monetize them too. But tons of options...and tons more hidden options only to be revealed in the Pledge Manager? No, lets see more clarity and concise options.

I would suggest: A Conan 2 Adventures KS, with all of the listed Conan content. No mention of Batman, Claustrophobia, Mythic or anything. Just Conan 2. AND...offer the VS system for just Conan.

Then, once that clears, a few months later release the VS KS, featuring Zombicide, Cthulhu Wars, Batman, Conan, Mythic Pantheons, etc. Again, no slew of add-ons, just the core VS set, and relevant add-on boxes containing all of the cards and chits needed for the sundry properties. After all, I would not need Zombicide, but would definitely add Cthulhu Wars and Mythic Pantheons VS boxes.

After that settles, then VS 2 is the reprint campaign: All the minis needed to build forces. Need Deep Ones? Here they are, 5 to a box. Want more Pirates, 5 to a box. etc.

Would that be easy? No. Would it make things clearer? Well, definitely clearer than they are now. My 5 cents.


Urusei Yatsura, Cerebus the Aardvark, Machiavelli, Plato and Happy Days. So, how was your childhood? 
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Longtime Dakkanaut





it will be back. The post from Fred was a big Mea Cupla:


Hello,

First of all, I would like to thank everyone who followed us and participated in this campaign. 250K remains a very nice sum and I am fully aware that many designers would love to reach these numbers. However, as high as it is, this amount would unfortunately not cover the development and licensing costs necessary for the successful launch of the range.

It is now more than obvious that the Beyond the Monolith offer did not attract enough pledgers to complete the project. I had high hopes for the concept and take full, personal responsibility for this failure. As I wrote yesterday on my Facebook page, I was unable to properly explain either the concept or the campaign. I thought the discount system was worthwhile and promising, but it quickly became obvious that it didn’t make sense to people and was not an appetizing incentive. I had hoped that the large drop in prices on existing models would outweigh negative reactions to offering duplicates. Again, this was a monumental mistake. I thought that setting a realistic funding threshold in relation to the project’s costs would express our respect and seriousness. [aa1] I made transparency and communication a priority and worked hard to explain the choices we made. Unfortunately, due to my poor language skills, I was only able to do this on French-speaking social networks.

Is a relaunch possible?

Yes. But it is now obvious that between BTM and Conan's Adventure mode, the pledgers' hearts are overwhelmingly with the latter.

If there is a relaunch, the offer will have to be completely revised. Put aside BTM (Who knows? Maybe in a few years, with some work and the right formula...), focus on Adventure Mode only (including Matt’s solo/co-op system), and give the Conan community what it wants.

I would also like to make it clear that Matt John continuously maintained that we should focus on Adventure mode. We often disagreed, but he has always been the voice of the community. He was right and I was wrong. When I took over the reins of Monolith, I mistakenly distanced myself from the community. He did not. Today, I wish I had listened to him. I know that he often took it upon himself to announce unpopular decisions that were mine. I would like to thank him publicly for his tenacity, which in the end convinced me that I was on the wrong track and that there was no point in being stubborn.

As far as I'm concerned, today, “down for the count”... But I will get back up. As many of you know, given the experimental nature of the campaign, I financed it entirely from my personal savings so as not to burden Monolith with the risk—I gambled and lost. “That’s Poker”

We have to proceed in order. Right now, I'm going to focus on getting Batman Season 2 properly delivered. Production has left China and is heading to the Hubs. Here's the shipment schedule:

- Australia (Aetherworks): The ship left China on January 13th and will arrive in Sydney on the 24th.

- Canada (Snake n’ Lattes): The ship left China on January 9th and is expected to arrive in Toronto on February 5th.

- Europe (Meeple Logistique): The ship left China on January 6th and is expected to arrive in Antwerp on the 31st.

- USA (Fun Again): The ship left China on January 11th and delivery to Indianapolis is expected shortly after February 6th.

- Asia: The shipment is being transported by truck to the VFI Asia warehouses and should arrive in early February.

Then, once the boxes have reached our pledgers, I will launch the new Conan KS, which this time, I hope, will be what the community is looking for (I will listen Matt). It will most likely be a smaller, less ambitious campaign, but, after a fall, I prefer to get up slowly.

Thank you for your understanding and for all your support and feedback.

Fred Henry.



Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Gallahad wrote:
I'm gutted. Been saving up for this one. I just don't understand all the people going on and on about redundant miniatures. The miniatures from old campaigns added $5 more per box. They gave old backers credits so the redundant miniatures were effectively free.

I've been trying to get all those cool miniatures from Conan for ages, and my chance just got cancelled.


You might still have your chance for some as outside of the relaunched campaign they confirmed they had a bunch of Kings Pledges they were going to sell for 60 euro and still might in the next KSer.

For other figures they said the minimum print run would need to be 1.5k but at that amount the prices wouldn't be the best. We'll have to see what they end up doing but they guy in charge now, Matt, knows there's lots of people in your position and is trying to make available what was needed for official scenarios via this past KSer in some way.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/01/15 19:49:57


 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





I don't see many people saying it, but the big problem with this campaign is that it's a miniature game with no exciting miniatures to buy. Yeah people didn't like how confusing the campaign was, and very few gamers need to spend $120 on a new skirmish game, but people don't go to miniature company's Kickstarters to buy rules either way. I mean, it's obvious the FH doesn't understand the business side to his Kickstarters, but he REALLY doesn't understand it.

Whether you want to focus on your Vs. Mode or you want to expand the Conan game, for God's sake provide some new miniatures to cause people to actually throw their money at you. They tried to raise $700,000 based on a dozen new sculpts, pretty much all of which are boring. Not to mention the Conan expansion that had those minis was still a lot of old minis and cost nearly 100 bucks. I know on KS forums people love to brag about their independent wealth, but reality tells a different tale. Most people have more that they want in life than they can afford, so why spend $100 on something as uninspiring as that expansion box? And I know they gave discounts based on buying past campaigns for different packages, but if 90% of the miniatures in BtM armies are just duplicates of minis they have, most are going to wonder why they aren't getting a 90% discount as opposed to 5% one.

On top of that, you know Youtube is free to use, Facebook is free to use, why aren't they using it? It's either laziness or incompetence, and I know a lot of gamers don't get this themselves, but if you're playing for millions on Kickstarter you should have at least three or four Youtube videos up advertising and explaining your game. And people love to give their opinions, they're free, why find out the week before that people don't like your Kickstarter plans, ask them six months before on Facebook. Get free feedback directly from customers.

If you have the startup funds, doing a successful KS campaign is extremely easy so long as you follow the rules of what works, but for some reason some creators feel like they've got to do anything but obey them.
   
Made in us
Courageous Questing Knight





Central Cimmeria

I think what they should have done is started out displaying only the new miniatures in each pack for the same cost. Then had tiny stretch goals that added in all the duplicate miniatures for "free". Would have been a huge difference psychologically.
   
Made in gb
Troubled By Non-Compliant Worlds





When I first heard about BtM, I was mnoderately interested - my game group are boardgamers (why Conan was popular with us) not skirmish gamers, but "play more games with the minis you already have" sounded like a great pitch - I bought the King pledge and all the exclusive add ons, so some 200+ minis - bound to be plenty for a skirmish game right? Right? Then this mess launched, telling me that no, I didn't have enough minis, and what I should do was drop several hundred £'s more on lots more mini's, most of which would be duplicates of what I already had, and which would have no use in this new system....The whole thing looked like an exercise in churning out tons of plastic to fund a few unexceptional mini's to make a Vs wargame, of which the world doesn't exactly have a shortage.....

 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka






Mythic Battles is an amazing “vs.” game already. Why not just port that system into the Conan and Batman settings?

I don’t have much hope for Ragnarok at this point.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/01/15 22:14:14


"The Omnissiah is my Moderati" 
   
Made in us
Stealthy Space Wolves Scout






Aside from all the other issues pointed out, frankly, I just don't want to play a game with minis of varied quality and context. Conan minis were okay, Mythic Battles were great, Zombicide has it's own style. I know nothing about Batman game minis. Heck, throw in green army men, too, why not ?

Nah, not for me.

What IS for me will be a Conan-specific expansion. Even if the mini quality is improved over the original. Ideally, they could even redo all those original minis as stretch goals or big add-on. I know I'd buy it !



"You never see toilets in the 41st Millennium - that's why everyone looks so angry all the time." - Fezman 1/28/13
 
   
Made in us
Grizzled MkII Monster Veteran






Yeah, my interest in Conan goes to the Adventure mode, and apparently I'm not exactly alone in that regard. The cancelled KS din't really make much sense to me.
   
Made in us
Infiltrating Broodlord




Lake County, Illinois

I'm currently playing through warhammer Quest Silver Tower, and after that I plan on playing Blackstone Fortress. And maybe someday go back and see how far I can get in the original warhammer quest. anyway, for me personally, I'm not going to get a chance to play another fantasy tabletop wargame, even if it's really good. But I'd definitely be interested in a co-op adventure mode in the Conan setting.
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Longtime Dakkanaut





So there's a planed update the middle of the week on what the new KSer will look like at a basic level (probably Wednesday) and set expectations. Also sounds like the new one could launch in 4-8 weeks (though no date like that has been given).

Matt has already said it's going to be all new, nothing from the first KSer, so that everyone playing conan can get "onto the same level" for scenario writers. Also sounds like they want to make it available post KSer so people that buy the retail version in the future will have a way to go forward.

There is, however, the possibility of all the tiles and hero sheets being reprinted from the first KSer in a bundle so people can get all the game play stuff.

As for old minis/expansions Matt and Chaz have said that it's not realistic at the current popularity of the game. If this KSer goes well and justifies more Conan then anything is possible but it might end up being resculpts for various reasons they haven't really stated. Though it does appear they don't have the rights to some of the artists boxes anymore so those sound like they'll never come back. I'm also wondering if they may not have some of the molds anymore as I would assume they have to pay to store those and after 5 years of not doing a reprint maybe some of them were recycled.

Nothing so far has been mentioned on the extra Kings Pledges they were going to sell in the previous KSer. So that may, or may not, be in the update they're talking about.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2020/01/18 19:47:55


 
   
Made in us
Courageous Space Marine Captain





SoCal

edit: never mind

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/01/18 21:50:51


   
Made in au
Regular Dakkanaut





Well that result was pretty much what I was expecting. Well done Monolith.
   
Made in us
Courageous Questing Knight





Central Cimmeria

Well, that is a complete let down. Guess I just need to come to grips with never being able to get my hands on that cool Sabertooth tiger, Black Ones, or Dragon.
   
Made in gb
[DCM]
Decrepit Dakkanaut




UK

Fear not (probably) facebook said this today

Hello Again,

Behind the scenes, the Monolith Team is working together to prepare a second offer for our faithful Sword Brothers and Sisters. The failed launch of Beyond the Monolith served as a wakeup call, and spelled a significant loss for us, but we are NOT ready to give up. We’re mobilizing as we speak, preparing to deliver a final push to get Conan back on the Road of Kings so he may again take the throne of Aquilonia and rule for years to come!

So what are we proposing? Next month, we will launch a campaign that offers a bigger, better redux version of the Legacy pledge featured in our last campaign. It will include:

-Some brand new miniatures you haven’t seen yet.

-A new double-sided game board (Yes, you will have the Temple, but we want to save the ships for something more fitting down the road).

-A sizeable tome that incorporates brand new scenarios for Conan Adventure Mode AND the rules and scenarios/campaign for the solo/co-op mode.

-All of the new sculpts we unveiled during the Beyond the Monolith KS (in greater numbers than were featured in the Legacy Box) and no previously released miniatures.

In short, it will be an even-greater version of what we originally proposed, and all of it will be brand new material. You’ll only require any existing copy of Conan (and those will be available during the KS for those who need them).

We know this plan does not offer everyone everything they want, but we have to be careful and measured. That means, unfortunately, at this time we can’t launch any complex offers for older material. That does not mean we won’t be able to do it. In fact, we have a good idea of how to do it, and soon, but it has to be after this next Kickstarter. During this upcoming campaign we will offer what remaining stock we have (including King Pledges, Core boxes and others), and hopefully, soon after we’ll launch a second campaign to allow everyone a chance to get what they missed.

Thank you so much to everyone who has supported us along the way. This, as Fred already mentioned, will be a true Kickstarter. Next month, fate will look upon us, and we need your help to raise the banners and voice your support. We need you. Help us place the Crown of Iron back upon the troubled brow of King Conan.

Will you answer the call?

-Matt John

PS: as Fred already mentioned, we are focusing on the delivery of Batman GCC Season 2. Our commitments to our previous backers must be our top priority. Those pledges will reach their shipping hubs next month and fulfillment of that project will begin. Batman GCC Season 2 is safe and will be on the way soon.

 
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Longtime Dakkanaut





That was quicker then expected.
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Longtime Dakkanaut





Earlier in the week Matt asked is FB group what they would like to see in the new KSer and a popular suggestion was Ghouls. Welp, here's a preview but I have a feeling it's one Matt already wanted Ghouls in the new box as it's only been two days.

[Thumb - 82851786_2367981086640194_3791305964485869568_o.jpg]

[Thumb - 83415303_2367980699973566_7531901507805904896_o.jpg]

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/01/24 23:21:39


 
   
Made in gb
Rampaging Reaver Titan Princeps





Earlobe deep in doo doo

Ohhh do want.....

"But me no buts! Our comrades get hurt. Our friends die. Falkenburg is a knight who swore an oath to serve the church and to defend the weak. He'd be the first to tell you to stop puling and start planning. Because what we are doing-at risk to ourselves-is what we have sworn to do. The West relies on us. It is a risk we take with pride. It is an oath we honour. Even when some soft southern burgher mutters about us, we know the reason he sleeps soft and comfortable, why his wife is able to complain about the price of cabbages as her most serious problem and why his children dare to throw dung and yell "Knot" when we pass. It's because we are what we are. For all our faults we stand for law and light.
Von Gherens This Rough Magic Lackey, Flint & Freer
Mekagorkalicious -Monkeytroll
2017 Model Count-71
 
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Longtime Dakkanaut





Another preview Haunter of the Pits (gray Ape resculpt I believe):
[Thumb - 84046858_2380607318710904_1249523565431095296_o.jpg]

[Thumb - 83493257_2380607192044250_1644143305161703424_o.jpg]

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/01/29 17:12:59


 
   
Made in us
Courageous Questing Knight





Central Cimmeria

Looks great! And absolutely terrifying.
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Longtime Dakkanaut





Seams like from what Matt has been hinting at he's planning to over the next few Conan KSers (assuming this one is successful) resculpt a percentage of old item that aren't available in any of the retail boxes (core + expansions) so people can get those units. The next KSer would be the long awaited Red Nails box which would include a new dragon.

I don't know if there are plans on making old sculpts available again that have been or planned on being resculpted nor how many redesigns we'll see. The Man-ape (Gray Ape) above, Baal Pteor are both examples from this KSer of exclusives being remade to be non-exclusives.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2020/01/29 21:06:02


 
   
Made in ca
Experienced Saurus Scar-Veteran





California the Southern

I'd be fine if they redid Baal Pteor. I thought it was a pretty bland sculpt.

Poorly lit photos of my ever- growing collection of completely unrelated models!

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/627383.page#7436324.html
Watch and listen to me ramble about these minis before ruining them with paint!
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCmCB2mWIxhYF8Q36d2Am_2A 
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Longtime Dakkanaut





 highlord tamburlaine wrote:
I'd be fine if they redid Baal Pteor. I thought it was a pretty bland sculpt.


They showed it off quite a while ago. It's one page one of this thread
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/782171.page#10627277
   
Made in ca
Experienced Saurus Scar-Veteran





California the Southern

Well somehow I missed that, and I thought I'd been keeping up on this. Whoops! Much better than him just standing around looking at the filthy peasants.


Poorly lit photos of my ever- growing collection of completely unrelated models!

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/627383.page#7436324.html
Watch and listen to me ramble about these minis before ruining them with paint!
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCmCB2mWIxhYF8Q36d2Am_2A 
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Longtime Dakkanaut





So They're hoping to provide info on the KSer next week.

Also looks like the box will come with 5 of those apes. Price wise it's going to be more then the previous legacy box, but not by much (id expect around $120), and going to contain more copies of the minis that are new then what the legacy box has plus a handful of other minis that they're able to afford.

Considering how huge many of the minis are that will be a good price as the old Legacy box was a great price once you saw how big the Yog Aspect is (other companies have similar size/bulk things out in PVC for $50-60).

Also it seams from what Monolith people have said it will run at least 2 weeks. No word on if they're going to play the Stretch Goal game.
   
Made in gb
[DCM]
Decrepit Dakkanaut




UK


 
   
 
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