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Made in us
Da Head Honcho Boss Grot





Raulengrin wrote:
Here is an idea. Not 100% sure it is legal - would have to check FAQs. But because superiors can change boaters for bolt pistols, one could give a superior 2 bolt pistols and change them both for an inferno pistol and a hand flamer for 8 points. Put said superior in a squad of Argent Shroud Storm Bolter dominions for a not terrible use of holy trinity with blessed bolts. Argent shroud would allow them to advance and fire their pistols, and with the extra movement it shouldn't be much of an issue for them to get within 6 inches of a vehicle.

Food for thought.


While technically legal, GW has never failed to remove any option that requires you to swap a weapon, then swap again in all 2-week FAQs.
   
Made in fi
Decrepit Dakkanaut





Check rulebook faq. No using same bullet point twice

https://middleagedstrategybattlegamers.home.blog/2019/11/29/tneva82-daemon-of-an-ancient-world/<- lotr painting blog

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5265 pts
5150 pts
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Made in us
Preacher of the Emperor





St. Louis, Missouri USA

It looks like your options are: (2 BP), or (1 BP + 1 IP), or (1 BP + 1 HF). I don't see how to get 2 IP or 2 HF

 
   
Made in gb
Irked Necron Immortal




 Grundz wrote:
pm713 wrote:

Bodyguarding something that you can hide behind all units seems a bit pointless. Maybe for things like the Triumph though?


One unit of snipers capable of shooting characters can pick up one of your support characters a turn under the right circumstances

you're just guardsmen with bolters without any support characters


Yeah I feel like Celestians are going to be vital if you're running a character heavy list. Gotta keep those Imagifiers alive as long as possible.
   
Made in us
Flailing Flagellant





Its a shame celestians can only protect half the characters in the book since the other half doesn't have an order tag

"If you are forced to use your trump card, then the battle is already lost" 
   
Made in us
Repentia Mistress






New Hampshire

What do people think about the need to take a Simulacrum Imperialis. They used to be pretty much mandatory, not so sure anymore. What is the consensus with the new codex?


And I'm pretty sure I saw previously in a different thread, but they removed the option for Superiors to take a stormbolter, correct?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/12/03 18:24:42


"Elysians: For when you absolutely, positively, must have 100% casualties"
W-L-D (7th Ed)
Adepta Sororitias 8-2-1
Iron Hands 6-2-0 
   
Made in us
Hooded Inquisitorial Interrogator




Simulacrum Imperialis - I didn't take them in the beta and none of the list's I'm working on have a need for them. I could see their value in Retribiturs, large BSS squads, or Dome but I don't see myself using those units right now.

Superiors can't take a Storm Bolter anymore.

   
Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka




What are people thinking on the terrain unit? I like it, a dependable miracle dice for a low price. It's nice to have terrain I'd use rules for rather than just decoration. *coughwebwaygatecough*

tremere47-fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate, leads to triple riptide spam  
   
Made in us
Da Head Honcho Boss Grot





Can anyone verify - I've heard mixed messages from some reviews, some mentioning it and some not - can a 10-woman squad of Seraphim have 4 models with special pistols, or is it only 2 models that can take hand flamers or inferno pistols regardless of unit size?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Rynner wrote:
Simulacrum Imperialis - I didn't take them in the beta and none of the list's I'm working on have a need for them. I could see their value in Retribiturs, large BSS squads, or Dome but I don't see myself using those units right now.

Superiors can't take a Storm Bolter anymore.



I'll need to see the rule on the Cherub personally to make a call on the Simulacrum.

I know there's a lot of wording surrounding the Cherub's "Special Case Miracle Die" roll. If that miracle die still counts as the one you can use that phase, then I would probably stick a Cherub+Simulacrum on some units. If the Cherub's special miracle die is separate from the one you get to use that phase, then I think only having a cherub on most units who will be regularly using miracle dice would be fine.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/12/03 18:50:11


 
   
Made in us
Arch Magos w/ 4 Meg of RAM






the_scotsman wrote:


I know there's a lot of wording surrounding the Cherub's "Special Case Miracle Die" roll. If that miracle die still counts as the one you can use that phase, then I would probably stick a Cherub+Simulacrum on some units. If the Cherub's special miracle die is separate from the one you get to use that phase, then I think only having a cherub on most units who will be regularly using miracle dice would be fine.


It only gives you the dice, it doesn't give you additionally the ability to use it

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Missionary On A Mission



Ottawa

pm713 wrote:
What are people thinking on the terrain unit? I like it, a dependable miracle dice for a low price. It's nice to have terrain I'd use rules for rather than just decoration. *coughwebwaygatecough*


The opportunity cost is a separate detachment solely for this piece. Depending on the type of match you're going for that will often mean you're trading 1 CP for approximately 5 miracle dice and guaranteed cover where you want it. That is unless you've built a triple battalion list. It may also provide LoS protection, but we aren't sure what it looks like yet so that's still up in the air.

I find the sacrifice you need to make to field a triple battalion list is greater than that of committing to the fortification detachment. I'm eager to field one just as soon as I know what the bloody thing looks like.
   
Made in us
Preacher of the Emperor





St. Louis, Missouri USA

Rynner wrote:
Simulacrum Imperialis - I didn't take them in the beta and none of the list's I'm working on have a need for them. I could see their value in Retribiturs, large BSS squads, or Dome but I don't see myself using those units right now.

Superiors can't take a Storm Bolter anymore.

You can take them as long as the index still exists.

 
   
Made in us
Arch Magos w/ 4 Meg of RAM






 deviantduck wrote:
Rynner wrote:
Simulacrum Imperialis - I didn't take them in the beta and none of the list's I'm working on have a need for them. I could see their value in Retribiturs, large BSS squads, or Dome but I don't see myself using those units right now.

Superiors can't take a Storm Bolter anymore.

You can take them as long as the index still exists.


so a weekish

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Ottawa

the_scotsman wrote:
Can anyone verify - I've heard mixed messages from some reviews, some mentioning it and some not - can a 10-woman squad of Seraphim have 4 models with special pistols, or is it only 2 models that can take hand flamers or inferno pistols regardless of unit size?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Rynner wrote:
Simulacrum Imperialis - I didn't take them in the beta and none of the list's I'm working on have a need for them. I could see their value in Retribiturs, large BSS squads, or Dome but I don't see myself using those units right now.

Superiors can't take a Storm Bolter anymore.



I'll need to see the rule on the Cherub personally to make a call on the Simulacrum.

I know there's a lot of wording surrounding the Cherub's "Special Case Miracle Die" roll. If that miracle die still counts as the one you can use that phase, then I would probably stick a Cherub+Simulacrum on some units. If the Cherub's special miracle die is separate from the one you get to use that phase, then I think only having a cherub on most units who will be regularly using miracle dice would be fine.


Re: Seraphim...

"Up to 2 Seraphim can be equipped with one of the following instead of 2 bolt pistols: 2 hand flamers; 2 inferno pistols"

There is no alteration here for unit size. Always simply 2, and you cannot spread out the pistols so that 4 models have 1, for instance.

Re: Incensor Cherub...

"If this unit has an Incensor Cherub, then once per battle, at the beginning of a phase, that Incensor Cherub can intercede. If it does, that Incensor Cherub is removed from play and you gain one Miracle dice: roll two D6 when you do so and select which one to keep. The Miracle dice you gain can only be used to perform an Act of Faith for this unit, and only in that phase - at the end of the phase, if the dice has not been used, it is lost."

Rereading it, the part that makes me think we maybe can't sacrifice it for other purposes (Stratagems, Ebon Chalice conviction) is that it can only be used on an Act of Faith for that unit, which reads as if that is the exclusive purpose.

In any case, they synergize very well with the Simulacrum Imperialis letting you perform multiple Acts in one phase using dice generated for that purpose, so likely in the first turn. Then the units maintain the ability to perform simultaneous Acts later in the game with the Simulacrum as you have gained dice to fuel it naturally.

I think it sounds really fun.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/12/03 19:14:51


 
   
Made in us
Preacher of the Emperor





St. Louis, Missouri USA

 Grundz wrote:
 deviantduck wrote:
Rynner wrote:
Simulacrum Imperialis - I didn't take them in the beta and none of the list's I'm working on have a need for them. I could see their value in Retribiturs, large BSS squads, or Dome but I don't see myself using those units right now.

Superiors can't take a Storm Bolter anymore.

You can take them as long as the index still exists.


so a weekish
Hey man, I might be playing in a tourney Saturday and it's suns out guns out. Storm bolters for all. Legends isn't dropping until January, correct?

 
   
Made in us
Arch Magos w/ 4 Meg of RAM






 deviantduck wrote:
 Grundz wrote:
 deviantduck wrote:
Rynner wrote:
Simulacrum Imperialis - I didn't take them in the beta and none of the list's I'm working on have a need for them. I could see their value in Retribiturs, large BSS squads, or Dome but I don't see myself using those units right now.

Superiors can't take a Storm Bolter anymore.

You can take them as long as the index still exists.


so a weekish
Hey man, I might be playing in a tourney Saturday and it's suns out guns out. Storm bolters for all. Legends isn't dropping until January, correct?


I thought the chapter approved point list was the replacement until legends

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Made in us
Preacher of the Emperor





St. Louis, Missouri USA

 Grundz wrote:
 deviantduck wrote:
 Grundz wrote:
 deviantduck wrote:
Rynner wrote:
Simulacrum Imperialis - I didn't take them in the beta and none of the list's I'm working on have a need for them. I could see their value in Retribiturs, large BSS squads, or Dome but I don't see myself using those units right now.

Superiors can't take a Storm Bolter anymore.

You can take them as long as the index still exists.


so a weekish
Hey man, I might be playing in a tourney Saturday and it's suns out guns out. Storm bolters for all. Legends isn't dropping until January, correct?


I thought the chapter approved point list was the replacement until legends
Sure for points, but the Index still exists until Legends comes out. CA19 could change the storm bolter points in the index, but the option is still in the index. (unless CA19 IS legends? I thought legends was going to be it's own digital download)

 
   
Made in us
Ancient Space Wolves Venerable Dreadnought




I'm *thrilled* about the change to Storm Bolters. I think this is the sixth or seventh time that I've had previously-legal models that I've carefully customized for my army become illegal because GW decided to scrap a formerly legal option.
   
Made in us
Preacher of the Emperor





St. Louis, Missouri USA

Waaaghpower wrote:
I'm *thrilled* about the change to Storm Bolters. I think this is the sixth or seventh time that I've had previously-legal models that I've carefully customized for my army become illegal because GW decided to scrap a formerly legal option.
Yup. I've got a lot of superiors that will have broken arms soon.

 
   
Made in us
Ancient Space Wolves Venerable Dreadnought




 deviantduck wrote:
Waaaghpower wrote:
I'm *thrilled* about the change to Storm Bolters. I think this is the sixth or seventh time that I've had previously-legal models that I've carefully customized for my army become illegal because GW decided to scrap a formerly legal option.
Yup. I've got a lot of superiors that will have broken arms soon.

I'm just going to call them regular Storm Bolter sisters that just happen to have decorative other weapons. It's not worth it to snap off all the chainswords and make new hands when I have new plastics to be working on.
   
Made in us
Repentia Mistress






New Hampshire

Waaaghpower wrote:
 deviantduck wrote:
Waaaghpower wrote:
I'm *thrilled* about the change to Storm Bolters. I think this is the sixth or seventh time that I've had previously-legal models that I've carefully customized for my army become illegal because GW decided to scrap a formerly legal option.
Yup. I've got a lot of superiors that will have broken arms soon.

I'm just going to call them regular Storm Bolter sisters that just happen to have decorative other weapons. It's not worth it to snap off all the chainswords and make new hands when I have new plastics to be working on.

This is how I've been treating my evicerator armed Seraphim Superior. Modded her up way back in Codex Witchhunters. I refuse to remove it.

"Elysians: For when you absolutely, positively, must have 100% casualties"
W-L-D (7th Ed)
Adepta Sororitias 8-2-1
Iron Hands 6-2-0 
   
Made in us
Da Head Honcho Boss Grot





Lemondish wrote:
the_scotsman wrote:
Can anyone verify - I've heard mixed messages from some reviews, some mentioning it and some not - can a 10-woman squad of Seraphim have 4 models with special pistols, or is it only 2 models that can take hand flamers or inferno pistols regardless of unit size?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Rynner wrote:
Simulacrum Imperialis - I didn't take them in the beta and none of the list's I'm working on have a need for them. I could see their value in Retribiturs, large BSS squads, or Dome but I don't see myself using those units right now.

Superiors can't take a Storm Bolter anymore.



I'll need to see the rule on the Cherub personally to make a call on the Simulacrum.

I know there's a lot of wording surrounding the Cherub's "Special Case Miracle Die" roll. If that miracle die still counts as the one you can use that phase, then I would probably stick a Cherub+Simulacrum on some units. If the Cherub's special miracle die is separate from the one you get to use that phase, then I think only having a cherub on most units who will be regularly using miracle dice would be fine.


Re: Seraphim...

"Up to 2 Seraphim can be equipped with one of the following instead of 2 bolt pistols: 2 hand flamers; 2 inferno pistols"

There is no alteration here for unit size. Always simply 2, and you cannot spread out the pistols so that 4 models have 1, for instance.

Re: Incensor Cherub...

"If this unit has an Incensor Cherub, then once per battle, at the beginning of a phase, that Incensor Cherub can intercede. If it does, that Incensor Cherub is removed from play and you gain one Miracle dice: roll two D6 when you do so and select which one to keep. The Miracle dice you gain can only be used to perform an Act of Faith for this unit, and only in that phase - at the end of the phase, if the dice has not been used, it is lost."

Rereading it, the part that makes me think we maybe can't sacrifice it for other purposes (Stratagems, Ebon Chalice conviction) is that it can only be used on an Act of Faith for that unit, which reads as if that is the exclusive purpose.

In any case, they synergize very well with the Simulacrum Imperialis letting you perform multiple Acts in one phase using dice generated for that purpose, so likely in the first turn. Then the units maintain the ability to perform simultaneous Acts later in the game with the Simulacrum as you have gained dice to fuel it naturally.

I think it sounds really fun.



Hmmm. That definitely reduces the power of the Cherub in my eyes, because effectively I would consider it a 10pt upgrade unless I was absolutely CERTAIN that the unit using the cherub would absolutely need a miracle die in one particular phase and nothing else was.

Looking at the basic loadout for a simple sisters squad, I thought 5 ladies+Storm Bolter+Superior with Chainsword, Boltgun and Inferno Pistol made a nice, neat package. The Inferno Pistol adds that little bit more threat to heavy units, characters, etc that might make an opponent think a little harder about your basic battle sisters squads.

Those two upgrades are only 9 points. To add both a Simulacrum and a Cherub to the squad would be an additional 10, which seems not super worth it to me, nice as it would be to have those two in combination with the One Angry Shot from the inferno pistol. You're only 1CP from a 5-woman battle sister squad being able to very nearly guarantee d6 points of damage to anything that doesn't have an invuln save.

But I don't think that guarantee is worth 10 additional points.
   
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the_scotsman wrote:


But I don't think that guarantee is worth 10 additional points.


It isn't, but if you are, say, argent shroud and drop a multimelta into your basic squads, it may be worth it just for one shot

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Longtime Dakkanaut




 Jancoran wrote:
pm713 wrote:
Do Celestians have a use now or are they still awful?


They actually do.

Only 1 point premium over a sister. Mainly You get:

Better weapon options (can do 3 meltas essentially or two and one multimelta)
Bodyguard feature
Most important: twin-linked weapons!!! (When near Canoness). That... is boss.
Extra attack.

All for 1 point. Seems legit.

Not as important: stratagem to re-roll wounds and hits for 2 cp. They already reroll hits w canoness so...)


Don't they also hit on 3+ in close combat compared to 4+ for regular Sisters?
   
Made in fi
Decrepit Dakkanaut





epronovost wrote:


Don't they also hit on 3+ in close combat compared to 4+ for regular Sisters?


Correct.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 deviantduck wrote:

so a weekish
Hey man, I might be playing in a tourney Saturday and it's suns out guns out. Storm bolters for all. Legends isn't dropping until January, correct?


GW linked the two together in commnity article so could pop out for download next weekend. Or maybe bit later. They didn't gave exact date. Just "together with chapter approved 2019"

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/12/03 22:13:13


https://middleagedstrategybattlegamers.home.blog/2019/11/29/tneva82-daemon-of-an-ancient-world/<- lotr painting blog

12 factions for Lord of The Rings
11772 pts(along with lots of unpainted unsorted stuff)
5265 pts
5150 pts
~3200 pts Knights

 
   
Made in us
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Thought:

Cherubs you roll two dice, pick one, and it must be used by that unit or it is lost

order of the sacred rose warlord trait: when the warlord uses a miracle, get another miracle dice, isn't super useful because it negates the order roll, but the one that gives you one on each turn doesn't for some reason, take that
order of the sacred rose: whenever you commit an act of faith, on a 5+ you gain another miracle dice

1cp test of faith for D3 more when used on a character.

This seems like a significant dice economy.
All your squads take a banner and cherub, your warlord takes the relic bolt pistol
Warlord moves up and shoots, you burn a dice on one of the rolls, on a 5+ you gain another one from the order, for 1cp you gain D3 more on top of that, you can do this every turn.
now your squads eat their cherubs and shoot or whatever, you use the dice on a 5+ you gain another one for each spent
You burn a cp whenever you commit valor (most turns(?) for another D3
All these rolls can be increased by 1 by a dialogus

so every round you're getting 2, plus another D3 from the warlord, plus another one on a 5+, so an average of 5 or 6 dice a turn
then a third of the ones you are spending on your squads are being refunded, plus another D3 on most turns, this seems like it will either snowball or every damage roll you ever make you can sub in dice

If you have the room for a detachment of mostly-not-sororitas models, taking a high churn unit like melta retributors as ebon chalice lets you recycle your low rolls into even more 6's

I dont know, it seems like it may be feasable, if silly.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
for example, if my warlord does this 4 turns, and I trigger valor 3 times in a game, lasts 5 turns


I use 7 cp
I generate 7d3, lets say 14 miracle dice
Warlord generate 4 dice (1/turn)
1/turn generates 5 dice
cherubs generate lets say 5 more
regular usage, lets say we generate 10 dice through the game through the other ways

38 dice
those generate 12.65 more from the order
those generate 4.2 more from the order
those generate 1 more from the order

Thats 55 miracle dice in one game

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2019/12/04 01:45:12


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Anyone else notice that the canoness in the box has an illegal load out according to the sheet in the codex?
   
Made in au
Angelic Adepta Sororitas




 Drider wrote:
Anyone else notice that the canoness in the box has an illegal load out according to the sheet in the codex?
There have been a few discussions on that in the Rumors thread and a YMDC thread.
   
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Dark Angels Librarian with Book of Secrets






A Protoss colony world

 Drider wrote:
Anyone else notice that the canoness in the box has an illegal load out according to the sheet in the codex?

I had noticed, and I hope GW is smart enough to correct the problem in the upcoming FAQ for the codex.

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 Mr_Rose wrote:
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Fresh-Faced New User




Rynner wrote:
I've played 5 with the new codex. I played twice vs Chaos, once vs Iron Hands, Necrons, and Tau. Each game was at 1500 because of a local 1 day GT around here everyone wants to practice for.

It's really amusing, Tau used to be a horrendous match up but now it's laughably easy.


Kinda curious to what list you’ve been testing to that result, if you dont mind me asking!
   
 
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