Fantasy Flight Games shuts down RPG department...

Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:

No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.

If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

**Monkeysloth**

Grot 6 wrote:
WUWU wrote:
Grot 6 wrote:
Galas wrote:
TBH is not like they ever did anything worthwile. Nothing will be missed. With the exception of people that has lost their jobs. That sucks.

\You want to know what game I worry about, and am sorry to have called it earlier when it came out? Marvel Crisis Protocol. I was really hoping that it would have lasted longer then just a release and a fart in the car. \

Marvel Crisis Protocol has been out for, what, 4 months? There's already something like 12 SKUS released for it. No one talks about it on Dakka because this is a GW fanboy page, and the only time people here can stop arguing over whether a Sister of Battle should be flashing more skin, is to take a dump on whatever is happening at FFG.

IA had the same thing going for it... and FFG no longer supports the game.

As to the expansions- post something about this "12 expansion" business. THIS game is DOA otherwise. FFG is KNOWN IN THE INDUSTRY as cash grabbers and snatching up properties with no plan. And we aren't even going to start talking about how FFG literally had these RPG's printing money for them before that infamous "Leadership change" when they picked up Star Wars, and lost the Games Workshop property for both fantasy and 40K. In the end, we are seeing what it is- poor business decisions.

If FFG was actually that bad they would have been out of business a long time ago. Their issue is they've got a high expectation on returns from products they put out and quickly pull the plug if it doesn't make the money they expect or once it gets below a threshold that they want. I think years in the board game market, where you can release a box and it will sell for a long time with little effort on FFGs part, then release an expansion maybe years later and do the same got their expectation for RPGs and wargames wrong (where you need quick release cycles and community involvement/marketing which keep costs up) as well as KSer changing how board gamers spend their money (FFG use to have little to no competition on the type of games they made 10+ years ago) and they've never really adapted. Even with new leadership which seams to have the same expectations as what the market was 10+ years ago. It will/is starting to affect their reputation and they're going to have to shift expectations or die at some point.

Also RPGs don't print money as we've discussed earlier. Even D&D which is going through a big cultural revival here in the US (being on TV and celebrities playing) doesn't even make enough for Hasbro to ever talk about it separately from WoTC overall performance. I think the only thing that prints money in this industry is MtG and if that ever dies without an adequate replacement you'll have a lot of shops closing down.

**Kirasu**

Wrath and glory was probably one of the worst released rpg I’ve seen in ages. Digital only for awhile and took forever to release a physical book which basically reduced its hype to 0 (with people that actually play rpgs).

Then there is a revised book coming out? And no release... the game itself is super simple with very few options. FFG rpgs had their issues with the combat systems but atleast they had content.

**Dysartes**

Grot 6 wrote:
WUWU wrote:
Grot 6 wrote:
Galas wrote:
TBH is not like they ever did anything worthwile. Nothing will be missed. With the exception of people that has lost their jobs. That sucks.

\You want to know what game I worry about, and am sorry to have called it earlier when it came out? Marvel Crisis Protocol. I was really hoping that it would have lasted longer then just a release and a fart in the car. \

Marvel Crisis Protocol has been out for, what, 4 months? There's already something like 12 SKUS released for it. No one talks about it on Dakka because this is a GW fanboy page, and the only time people here can stop arguing over whether a Sister of Battle should be flashing more skin, is to take a dump on whatever is happening at FFG.

IA had the same thing going for it... and FFG no longer supports the game.

As to the expansions- post something about this "12 expansion" business. THIS game is DOA otherwise. FFG is KNOWN IN THE INDUSTRY as cash grabbers and snatching up properties with no plan. And we aren't even going to start talking about how FFG literally had these RPG's printing money for them before that infamous "Leadership change" when they picked up Star Wars, and lost the Games Workshop property for both fantasy and 40K. In the end, we are seeing what it is- poor business decisions.

Erm - is Crisis Protocol even published by FFG? It isn't listed on their website, while searching for it came up with a company called Atomic Mass Games...

**Monkeysloth**

Atomic Mass Games is owned by either Fantasy Flight or Asmodee from everything that's been stated by people. In the reddit thread where people affected by the layoffs were talking this was also mentioned by the former workers as "spinning off Atomic Mass Games was probably the best business decision they've made in a while".

**Coolyo294**

Atomic Mass is wholly owned by Asmodee

**schoon**

Kirasu wrote:
Wrath and glory was probably one of the worst released rpg I’ve seen in ages. Digital only for awhile and took forever to release a physical book which basically reduced its hype to 0 (with people that actually play rpgs).

Ummmm. Wrath & Glory was Ulysses and is now Cubicle 7.

I'm not sure how that connects with FFG...

**Monkeysloth**

According to d20radio FFG has axed all their RPGs and after what's at print nothing will be produced even by contractors:

http://www.d20radio.com/main/fantasy-flight-games-long-term-plan-will-discontinue-rpg-development/

We at d20Radio are sad to announce that we have independently confirmed that, in the long term, Fantasy Flight Games will be discontinuing the production of its roleplaying game lines. This news comes in the wake of the layoff FFG’s RPG department staff, which occurred in early January of this year.
We have also confirmed that this will be a long-term endeavor, and that all currently announced and in-production RPG Products by FFG will be delivered. This means that the highly anticipated Starships and Speeders essential vehicles collection for the Star Wars Roleplaying Game, as well as the Secrets of the Crucible Keyforge campaign setting for the Genesys Roleplaying Game will, indeed, be delivered and provide exciting official content for both RPG lines. It is still unknown, as of yet, what impact this plan will have on the fan-created content hub of the Genesys Foundry.
It also remains unknown as to why Fantasy Flight Games has made the decision to end RPG Production in the long-term. To date, neither FFG or their parent company, Asmodee, have made any public statement or comment on the matter.
While it is unsubstantiated conjecture, industry pundits and internet commentators have expressed numerous opinions that Asmodee is prepping FFG for a sale, or that French private equity firm, Eurazeo (who purchased Asmodee in 2013) is perhaps prepping Asmodee for a sale. Still other commentators are of the opinion that parent company Asmodee is simply seeking to focus exclusively on the board-game market. All of which – again – is unsubstantiated conjecture, to this point.
Following the 2013 acquisition by Eurazeo, Asmodee became extremely active in mergers and acquisitions of other hobby companies, beginning with the 2014 merger of Asmodee with Days of Wonder, and then with Fantasy Flight Games. 2016 saw the Asmodee acquisition of Z-Man Games, Plaid Hat Games, and Filosophia; as well as the announcement of agreements for Asmodee to publish the English-language versions of Catan from Mayfair Games (creating a new company, Catan Studio, Inc.). In 2017, Asmodee merged with German board game publisher Heidelberger Spieleverlag, and acquired the Spanish editor, Edge Entertainment. In 2018, Asmodee announced the acquisitions of both the Polish game publisher, Rebel; and the European distributor, ACD Blackfire Entertainment. None of these endeavors focused on the publishing of RPG material.
We at d20Radio are saddened by this news, as we have enjoyed a strong relationship with the FFG RPG team, and have become huge fans of their Star Wars, Genesys, and Legend of the Five Rings roleplaying games. The talented team that brought those game lines into the hobby world went above and beyond to maintain a great relationship with fans, and bring us some of the best roleplaying content we have ever had the privilege to play. More than that, they are our friends. Thankfully, their hard work has created games that we will continue to play – forever. And regardless of the long-term plans, we are extremely excited for the forthcoming content yet to come!

credit to reddit for the original post I found https://www.reddit.com/r/rpg/comments/f5trr3/fantasy_flight_games_long_term_plan_will/

**H.B.M.C.**

If those final books are coming out, better snap 'em up quick.

The last few books in the 40K RPG lines are rarer than hen's teeth.

**Monkeysloth**

Someone at FFG confirmed this on twitter at least about the L5R RPG. https://twitter.com/lindevi/status/1229810153312182275

**ingtaer**

Asmodee have also announced that they are shutting down their parts replacement service, now if you are missing parts from a product you have to go through where you bought it and thus the distributor (who, mostly, suck). Things are not looking too good for this company.

**BrianDavion**

At this point I'd be very careful about even dropping cash on any FFG product, if it's not an active cash cow I'd expect to see it chopped

**Albertorius**

Well, it appears to be a bit more complicated than that. Yes, even more >_>:

https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.reddit.com/r/swrpg/comments/f5vgy8/d20radio_may_have_misinterpreted_the_infos_for/?utm_term%3D33743379438%26utm_medium%3Dcomment_embed%26utm_source%3Dembed%26utm_name%3Df29182b2-52fd-11ea-a4e6-0eb8aa00e57e%26utm_content%3Dfooter&sa=D&source=hangouts&ust=1582196582251000&usg=AFQjCNFlfCPf5_A3s9CR6WbLdXXXTRipxQ

At this moment, insider gossip points towards FFG shedding all RPG production and it going to another company from the Asmodee group, either newly minted or already existing.

I guess this compartimentalization is in line with how hedge funds work, when selling stuff they have, so...

**H.B.M.C.**

Be that as it may, they still sacked everyone at FFG who worked on the books.

**Tiberius501**

I hope FFG isn’t having too many issues, I’m only just getting into Legion and it would suck for it all to fall down now :(

**spaceelf**

Although the discontinuation of their parts service is certainly not good, they are moving to have their minatures produced in hard plastic. This should greatly diminish missing parts, as they should all be present on the sprew.

**Tiberius501**

Ah, hard plastic is a good move. Will give them the ability to have more and sharper detail.

**LordofHats**

Monkeysloth wrote:
Someone at FFG confirmed this on twitter at least about the L5R RPG. https://twitter.com/lindevi/status/1229810153312182275

Damn. That could be the end of L5R, and I just got into it :[

Far as I know the RPGs have only ever been so-so for FFG, and the card game barely breaks even and is mostly a labor of love rather than profit.

LordofHats wrote:
Damn. That could be the end of L5R, and I just got into it :[

Far as I know the RPGs have only ever been so-so for FFG, and the card game barely breaks even and is mostly a labor of love rather than profit.

The only "good new" for L5R might be that they own the IP outright, so it's relatively easier to turn a profit there when they don't have to offset for an expensive license fee.

I mean, I didn't play the RPG, but I do like the card game, even though I don't get to play it much.

**LunarSol**

Albertorius wrote:
Well, it appears to be a bit more complicated than that. Yes, even more >_>:

https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.reddit.com/r/swrpg/comments/f5vgy8/d20radio_may_have_misinterpreted_the_infos_for/?utm_term%3D33743379438%26utm_medium%3Dcomment_embed%26utm_source%3Dembed%26utm_name%3Df29182b2-52fd-11ea-a4e6-0eb8aa00e57e%26utm_content%3Dfooter&sa=D&source=hangouts&ust=1582196582251000&usg=AFQjCNFlfCPf5_A3s9CR6WbLdXXXTRipxQ

At this moment, insider gossip points towards FFG shedding all RPG production and it going to another company from the Asmodee group, either newly minted or already existing.

I guess this compartimentalization is in line with how hedge funds work, when selling stuff they have, so...

Pretty standard stuff. The videogame industry has been doing it for years. Why have 8 companies that make RPGs (which you have because you bought them all) when you can give all the RPGs you now own to 1-2 studios that specialize in it? Practically it makes sense, though cynically we know its only a matter of time before every RPG out there has us storming enemy strongholds to climb a tower to reveal quests in the area...

**Nurglitch**

I don't play RPGS, so I'm probably asking a dumb question, but isn't it basically organized make-believe? I mean, source-books and stuff are handy, but they aren't really necessary. It's not like Warhammer where there's models and rules and stuff.

**LordofHats**

Nurglitch wrote:
I don't play RPGS, so I'm probably asking a dumb question, but isn't it basically organized make-believe? I mean, source-books and stuff are handy, but they aren't really necessary. It's not like Warhammer where there's models and rules and stuff.

RPG systems have rules. They're a bit more abstract that something like Warhammer 40k, but they do have rules. It's hard to get a group of people to work together on something without a common "core" for them to do so with. You could totally do an RPG without a rule book (the earliest sessions of Blackmoore as I understand it didn't really have rules) but I doubt you'd get many people to play those games for long.

The big issue in the RPG market really is that Dungeons and Dragons is the 5000lb gorilla in the room (and 5e has been doing extremely well) and it's hard for other RPGs to break into the market. Even the market's second biggest game, Pathfinder, is really just Dungeons and Dragons 3E with a new coat of paint and some tweaks. FFG also had the issue where all their RPGs used unique dice and dice mechanics that people either love or hate, and imo damaged their ability to cut out a stable slice of the market. It probably doesn't help that their LCG games are their real money makers. I'll bet that their entire RPG department pales in money making power before the likes of Arkham Horror which has been steadily growing since it's release years ago..

**Genoside07**

MM has always been known as a game liquidator and it seems like they are thinning out the back inventory for FFG.

The miniature market has sales on a number of FFG stuff (X-wing, board games) over the past month, I am sure there
will be an RPG sale here soon covering most of their products.

**Easy E**

Ouch. I really liked L5R in general, even if I did not like the FFG version that much.

**BrianDavion**

LordofHats wrote:
Nurglitch wrote:
I don't play RPGS, so I'm probably asking a dumb question, but isn't it basically organized make-believe? I mean, source-books and stuff are handy, but they aren't really necessary. It's not like Warhammer where there's models and rules and stuff.

RPG systems have rules. They're a bit more abstract that something like Warhammer 40k, but they do have rules. It's hard to get a group of people to work together on something without a common "core" for them to do so with. You could totally do an RPG without a rule book (the earliest sessions of Blackmoore as I understand it didn't really have rules) but I doubt you'd get many people to play those games for long.

The big issue in the RPG market really is that Dungeons and Dragons is the 5000lb gorilla in the room (and 5e has been doing extremely well) and it's hard for other RPGs to break into the market. Even the market's second biggest game, Pathfinder, is really just Dungeons and Dragons 3E with a new coat of paint and some tweaks. FFG also had the issue where all their RPGs used unique dice and dice mechanics that people either love or hate, and imo damaged their ability to cut out a stable slice of the market. It probably doesn't help that their LCG games are their real money makers. I'll bet that their entire RPG department pales in money making power before the likes of Arkham Horror which has been steadily growing since it's release years ago..

yeah their insistance on unique dice really hurt them IMHO. people who would otherwise have played their games walked away.

As a SW fan this new concerns me as I suspect FFG isn't going to be surrendering the lisence as the lisence for RPGs is also the mini games lisence.

**Albertorius**

Nurglitch wrote:
I don't play RPGS, so I'm probably asking a dumb question, but isn't it basically organized make-believe? I mean, source-books and stuff are handy, but they aren't really necessary. It's not like Warhammer where there's models and rules and stuff.

Well, I guess you could also use cardboard cutouts of bases to play Warhammer.

But still need the rules, and RPG's are at least as important as miniature games'.

**AegisGrimm**

Albertorius wrote:
Nurglitch wrote:
I don't play RPGS, so I'm probably asking a dumb question, but isn't it basically organized make-believe? I mean, source-books and stuff are handy, but they aren't really necessary. It's not like Warhammer where there's models and rules and stuff.

Well, I guess you could also use cardboard cutouts of bases to play Warhammer.

But still need the rules, and RPG's are at least as important as miniature games'.

It would be like having no more supplements for 40k or Sigmar. RPG supplements and sourcebooks are as necessary as a Seraphon army book would be for playing that force, or Imperial Guard as an army.

**Yodhrin**

Grain of salt obviously given the source(random 4chan post), but potentially some light on the horizon for people invested into the FFG RPGs:

Attended the GAMA Asmodee Keynote an hour ago. The FFG branded role playing games will be transitioning to a new European company over the course of this year. The company is called Edge Entertainment. Old books will still be printed, and new ones will be made. New books will still work with existing ones, so it's not a new edition.

**H.B.M.C.**

If only that'd happened prior to WANG.

**WUWU**

Grot 6 wrote:
WUWU wrote:
Grot 6 wrote:
Galas wrote:
TBH is not like they ever did anything worthwile. Nothing will be missed. With the exception of people that has lost their jobs. That sucks.

\You want to know what game I worry about, and am sorry to have called it earlier when it came out? Marvel Crisis Protocol. I was really hoping that it would have lasted longer then just a release and a fart in the car. \

Marvel Crisis Protocol has been out for, what, 4 months? There's already something like 12 SKUS released for it. No one talks about it on Dakka because this is a GW fanboy page, and the only time people here can stop arguing over whether a Sister of Battle should be flashing more skin, is to take a dump on whatever is happening at FFG.

IA had the same thing going for it... and FFG no longer supports the game.

As to the expansions- post something about this "12 expansion" business. THIS game is DOA otherwise. FFG is KNOWN IN THE INDUSTRY as cash grabbers and snatching up properties with no plan. And we aren't even going to start talking about how FFG literally had these RPG's printing money for them before that infamous "Leadership change" when they picked up Star Wars, and lost the Games Workshop property for both fantasy and 40K. In the end, we are seeing what it is- poor business decisions.

Meanwhile, Atomic Mass Games just previewed a bunch of content for Marvel: Crisis Protocol at GAMA. They are looking at 35 SKUs before the end of Q3 in their first year. Not bad for a "fart in the car"

**Kid_Kyoto**

So everyone thinking this is an attempt to pump up revenue for a sale?