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Made in us
[MOD]
Solahma






RVA

Both games will take some selling to get games and DZ is an easier sell in terms of explaining/understanding/using the rules.

   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Myrtle Creek, OR

I agree that DZ is even the better game and seems easier to play/teach. But GW’s market saturation gives them a big head start on convincing people that they will be able to play with more people regularly than just the demo monkey. I don’t like it but it’s just the state of things
   
Made in at
Discriminating Warrior





Austria

if someone already decided to only go with GW games, they won't consider it anyway no matter the price

and also KT games are not that easy to find as it had a hard start with the compedium and being very different from the previous versions (so one might need some dancing to convince people to play the new version over the old one as well)

but doing a more detailed comparision (and personal rating)

KT VS DZ
Box:
- terrain: bulkier, Ork themed VS generic human, modular - equal (both have advantages/disadvantages, similar amount)
- board: cardboard VS paper - 1:0
- models:
design is personal taste , Orks VS Rats and World War 1 VS Modern themed humans - equal
quality is tricky but the mold lines on the Orks are just bad were the Mantic models have softer edges - equal
Monopose with weapon options VS Multipose with options for weapons and alternate builds (different troop types for both) - 0:1 = 0:1/3
- Rules: full Core Rules + lists for the teams in the box VS full Core Rules and all faction lists - 0:1
- Gaming Aids: everything needed VS everything needed - equal
- Price: 155€ VS 105€ - 0:1

starting without Box:
- stand alone boards: cardboard (40€) VS neopren (35€) - 0:1
- rules: Core Rules + Compendium + Cards + Gaming Aids = 111€ VS Rules (include faction lists and marker) + Command Dice + D8 = 60€ - 0:1
terrain: box terrain not available VS Terrain Booster 70€
Mechanicus terrain, including board 120€ VS Industrial Zone, without board
- models: box models not available, no dedicated KT boxes (any more) VS Faction Starter/Booster (35€) - 0:1

My conclusion:
Start with the core box is equal, you get everything you need although the written rules are much easier to understand for DZ than with KT and DZ is slightly cheaper

If one does not like the core box models and want to play/start with a different faction or is the 3rd person in a group that wants to start, the options for KT are very limited and going without the box is not really possible.

It also looks like the game is focused on boxed game releases and we won't see the dedicated Kill Teams as stand alone releases for some time.

Also DZ has the advantage of long term support here as it is a "main" game for Mantic were previous versions of KT were not really in focus for GW after the initial hype and if the boxes sold out there was no re-print
also the game changed a lot over time and it is more like the same name for different game than an ongoing game development
so hard to guess what happens with KT and if it is still there in 2023 were DZ will be around for while

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/09/14 07:05:55


Harry, bring this ring to Narnia or the Sith will take the Enterprise

M41 - Alternative Rules for Battles in the 41st Millennium (40k LRB Project) 
   
Made in gb
Pious Warrior Priest




UK

It's a really straightforward upgrade if you've got 1st or 2nd edition, rulebooks come bundled with counters and that's all you really need.

The veteran bundle for £50 is pretty good, two books, counters, acrylic loot counters, selection of 3d objectives for use in the scenarios. As someone overflowing with DZ minis and terrain, that works nicely and is all I need.

3rd edition at this point is more about a refresh and consolidation of the rules with a lot of clean-up done and points values tightened up as much as possible (a lot of work goes into making sure there aren't any trash-tier or broken units).

Quite similar to the process of KoW 3rd edition.

It's also a lead-in to Firefight which will be the next big thing (complete rules overhaul with more in common with deadzone, all the bloat stripped out, going for a genuine 40k competitor with rules simplicity and fast gameplay as the draw).

If you've followed Mantic's sci-fi offerings for a while but never bought in, this is probably the best time for it, there's a lot planned, a lot of the factions have multiple hard plastic kits and vehicles, with a lot more to come (Orc Marauders!) now that Mantic is churning out quality sprues regularly without the need to kickstart them.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/09/14 07:48:58


 
   
Made in jp
[DCM]
Incorporating Wet-Blending





Japan

One advantage of not having any other miniatures enthusiasts within 500km or so is that I get to decide what games get played. I will absolutely get the new rules, and probably a new neoprene mat, as well. Having gone all in on the first DZ Kickstarter, I don't really need anything else to play.

Now showing two Tranquility crewmembers from Blackwater Gulch!!

Painting Total as of 10/17/2021: 84 plus an iron golem and five spider nests and all the obstacles for Dreadball Xtreme and four trapdoors and a cauldron and some teleport disks and three SF buildings and some resin barricades!

Painting Total as of 12/26/2020: 185 plus two mechs and the Throne of Bone




 
   
Made in jp
Ship's Officer






The Land of the Rising Sun

From your place to mine there are less than 500km on a straight line!

M.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/09/14 14:17:44


Jenkins: You don't have jurisdiction here!
Smith Jamison: We aren't here, which means when we open up on you and shred your bodies with automatic fire then this will never have happened.

Raxmei wrote:24ps is the range. 24". If that were the points cost then lasguns and plasma guns would cost the same amount and flamers would have a cost of "Souffle".

Every year Golden Week Tournament at www.nagoyahammer.com 
   
Made in au
Longtime Dakkanaut





Melbourne, Australia

I suppose that means he gets to say what games you play.

The galaxy is littered with the single-planet graveyards of civilisations which made the economically sensible decision not to explore space. 
   
Made in jp
[DCM]
Incorporating Wet-Blending





Japan

Miguelsan wrote:From your place to mine there are less than 500km on a straight line!

M.


500km is from here to Tokyo. Where are you located?

.Mikes. wrote:I suppose that means he gets to say what games you play.


That sounds fair to me!

Now showing two Tranquility crewmembers from Blackwater Gulch!!

Painting Total as of 10/17/2021: 84 plus an iron golem and five spider nests and all the obstacles for Dreadball Xtreme and four trapdoors and a cauldron and some teleport disks and three SF buildings and some resin barricades!

Painting Total as of 12/26/2020: 185 plus two mechs and the Throne of Bone




 
   
Made in jp
Ship's Officer






The Land of the Rising Sun

 JoshInJapan wrote:
Miguelsan wrote:From your place to mine there are less than 500km on a straight line!

M.


500km is from here to Tokyo. Where are you located?

.Mikes. wrote:I suppose that means he gets to say what games you play.


That sounds fair to me!


Kobe. About 800 km but that's following the roads.

M.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/09/15 02:55:00


Jenkins: You don't have jurisdiction here!
Smith Jamison: We aren't here, which means when we open up on you and shred your bodies with automatic fire then this will never have happened.

Raxmei wrote:24ps is the range. 24". If that were the points cost then lasguns and plasma guns would cost the same amount and flamers would have a cost of "Souffle".

Every year Golden Week Tournament at www.nagoyahammer.com 
   
Made in jp
[DCM]
Incorporating Wet-Blending





Japan

 Miguelsan wrote:
 JoshInJapan wrote:
Miguelsan wrote:From your place to mine there are less than 500km on a straight line!

M.


500km is from here to Tokyo. Where are you located?

.Mikes. wrote:I suppose that means he gets to say what games you play.


That sounds fair to me!


Kobe. About 800 km but that's following the roads.

M.


That's on the other side of the JR East/JR West divide, which is almost the same as being in another country Someday, when Covid finally goes away, we'll have to get together for a game or three.

Now showing two Tranquility crewmembers from Blackwater Gulch!!

Painting Total as of 10/17/2021: 84 plus an iron golem and five spider nests and all the obstacles for Dreadball Xtreme and four trapdoors and a cauldron and some teleport disks and three SF buildings and some resin barricades!

Painting Total as of 12/26/2020: 185 plus two mechs and the Throne of Bone




 
   
Made in jp
Ship's Officer






The Land of the Rising Sun

Or 4!

M.

Jenkins: You don't have jurisdiction here!
Smith Jamison: We aren't here, which means when we open up on you and shred your bodies with automatic fire then this will never have happened.

Raxmei wrote:24ps is the range. 24". If that were the points cost then lasguns and plasma guns would cost the same amount and flamers would have a cost of "Souffle".

Every year Golden Week Tournament at www.nagoyahammer.com 
   
Made in at
Discriminating Warrior





Austria

Article about LOS changes is up

https://www.manticgames.com/news/deadzone-third-edition-why-line-of-sight-changes-really-arent-that-scary/

Harry, bring this ring to Narnia or the Sith will take the Enterprise

M41 - Alternative Rules for Battles in the 41st Millennium (40k LRB Project) 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Myrtle Creek, OR

Current los rules are one of the things I brag about dz rules. Can I see any part of the target? Yes or no. No fractions. No wondering if the rifle would be invisible if only the model were holding it down at a slightly lower angle.

   
Made in si
Ravenous Beast Form







So they're switching to magic cylinders, which is industry standard for competitive skirmish, no argument from me.

Posters on ignore list: 34

40k Potica Edition - 40k patch with reactions, suppression and all that good stuff. Feedback thread here.

Gangs of Nu Ork - Necromunda / Gorkamorka expansion supporting all faction. Feedback thread here
   
Made in us
[MOD]
Solahma






RVA

Yes, that is the one thing that always bothered me a little about DZ and now it’s fixed.

   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Myrtle Creek, OR

Miniatures Market has the new starter up for preorder for $100.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2021/09/16 03:57:30


 
   
Made in at
Discriminating Warrior





Austria

Forge Father Artificers













Harry, bring this ring to Narnia or the Sith will take the Enterprise

M41 - Alternative Rules for Battles in the 41st Millennium (40k LRB Project) 
   
Made in jp
Ship's Officer






The Land of the Rising Sun

Not sold on that walker. There is something missing from the weapons. Is it going to fan the enemy?

M.

Jenkins: You don't have jurisdiction here!
Smith Jamison: We aren't here, which means when we open up on you and shred your bodies with automatic fire then this will never have happened.

Raxmei wrote:24ps is the range. 24". If that were the points cost then lasguns and plasma guns would cost the same amount and flamers would have a cost of "Souffle".

Every year Golden Week Tournament at www.nagoyahammer.com 
   
Made in at
Discriminating Warrior





Austria

 Miguelsan wrote:
. Is it going to fan the enemy?


Kind of
Spoiler:

Harry, bring this ring to Narnia or the Sith will take the Enterprise

M41 - Alternative Rules for Battles in the 41st Millennium (40k LRB Project) 
   
Made in si
Ravenous Beast Form







Nobody gonna make a baby carrier joke?

Posters on ignore list: 34

40k Potica Edition - 40k patch with reactions, suppression and all that good stuff. Feedback thread here.

Gangs of Nu Ork - Necromunda / Gorkamorka expansion supporting all faction. Feedback thread here
   
Made in at
Discriminating Warrior





Austria

no but I am gonna paint one yellow and call it "beardy Ripley"

PS: for the simply reason that the Mech is designed to have an optional closed front makes it look less like a Baby Carrier as the Pilot is inside and not hanging on the front
for the same reason the Matrix Mechs looks cool

PPS: while thinking about it, I guess I need two of them, a "beardy Ripley" melee version and "beardy Mifune" with 2 guns

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/09/16 09:07:36


Harry, bring this ring to Narnia or the Sith will take the Enterprise

M41 - Alternative Rules for Battles in the 41st Millennium (40k LRB Project) 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut





Is this a new FF faction, or the artificers are just extra for them?
They already had the armoured guys, then the more like mechanic plain guys whose names escape me, right?
   
Made in at
Discriminating Warrior





Austria

Is the new FF subfaction, although we don't know yet how the subfaction are going to work in 3rd Edition (if you can mix and match like you want or not)

they have the standard FF Clan Warriors, the Brokkrs (the one Clan that tried to be friends with the humans, in the progress lost everything and is now a nomadic tribe within the human sphere) and now the technical/mining guys

Harry, bring this ring to Narnia or the Sith will take the Enterprise

M41 - Alternative Rules for Battles in the 41st Millennium (40k LRB Project) 
   
Made in us
Courageous Space Marine Captain





SoCal

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Nobody gonna make a baby carrier joke?


Is not the open cockpit option already a joke at GW’s expense?

   
Made in gb
[DCM]
Stonecold Gimster






I like the look of all them to be fair.
Especially Doc Oc forge father.

My only issue are Mantic's paint schemes. They're painted very well, but they just seem to be missing a colour to make them pop.
A few tufts or bits on the plain bases would help too. I've been noticing that on KoW stuff recently. Even a green tuft would add that extra bit of colour to the model.

My Painting Blog: http://gimgamgoo.com/
Currently most played: Kill Team 18, Kings of War, Silent Death, Beyond the Gates of Antares, Dracula's America, Bolt Action (inc K47), DzC and X-Wing. Dabbling with 40k again and trying AoS3. 
   
Made in us
[MOD]
Solahma






RVA

I really agree, Mantic figures can look a lot better than their studio paint jobs suggest.

   
Made in us
Is 'Eavy Metal Calling?





Affton, MO. USA

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Nobody gonna make a baby carrier joke?

Nope, because he's standing on the deck of a platform, not hanging there with little baby legs dangling like low hanging fruit.

LOL, Theo your mind is an amazing place, never change.-camkierhi 9/19/13
I cant believe theo is right.. damn. -comradepanda 9/26/13
None of the strange ideas we had about you involved your sexual orientation..........-Monkeytroll 12/10/13

I'd put you on ignore for that comment, if I could...Alpharius 2/11/14 
   
Made in us
Water-Caste Negotiator




Les Etats Unis

 Theophony wrote:
 lord_blackfang wrote:
Nobody gonna make a baby carrier joke?

Nope, because he's standing on the deck of a platform, not hanging there with little baby legs dangling like low hanging fruit.


Also, his arms are operating joysticks inside the cockpit rather than weirdly dangling out as seen in other, more unfortunate models.


Dudeface wrote:
 Eldarain wrote:
Is there another game where players consistently blame each other for the failings of the creator?

If you want to get existential, life for some.
 
   
Made in at
Discriminating Warrior





Austria

the small little details in design make the difference between a baby carrier and a suitable/working mech


Article about Keywords, nothing special just the obvious clean up like re-naming abbilities, rules, equipment (that there is a difference between a Fight Action and Fight stat, so now it is an Assault Action, that not all Heavy Weapons used the Heavy special rules etc.)

https://www.manticgames.com/news/deadzone-third-edition-streamlining-keywords/


Automatically Appended Next Post:
https://www.manticgames.com/news/deadzone-third-edition-new-units-and-minis/

Release Dates and Details

Maurauders and Plague are set for early 2022

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/09/17 17:15:34


Harry, bring this ring to Narnia or the Sith will take the Enterprise

M41 - Alternative Rules for Battles in the 41st Millennium (40k LRB Project) 
   
Made in at
Discriminating Warrior





Austria

Articles for Damage and Campaigns are up

https://www.manticgames.com/news/deadzone-third-edition-cleaning-up-the-damage/

https://www.manticgames.com/news/deadzone-third-edition-how-do-campaigns-work/


Harry, bring this ring to Narnia or the Sith will take the Enterprise

M41 - Alternative Rules for Battles in the 41st Millennium (40k LRB Project) 
   
 
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