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Made in us
Blood Angel Terminator with Lightning Claws



Sioux Falls, SD

 Daedalus81 wrote:
the_scotsman wrote:


You know, the six to seven army wide special rules they get in addition to the crazy bs on their profiles that make 7th ed eldar pale in comparison. But don't worry, they dont have a plethora of special rules daed said so

Hey remember when fire dragons got +1 on the damage table on their melta guns? Shoot twice melta unit lololol.

Incidentally the first GT results just came in. 4/10 marine armies, 4/10 custodes armies in the top 10. Shocked pikachu face.


I acknowledge the layered rules. I'm just talking about unit design.

Who the hell is hosting a GT? How many players and how many were marine?


I’m curious as well, would love to see more detailed results.

Blood for the bloo... wait no, I meant for Sanguinius!  
   
Made in us
Mutated Chosen Chaos Marine




The dark hollows of Kentucky

Lists would be nice. Did the loyalist players use any of the Indomutus units? That would be some serious speed painting if they did.
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




Illinois

TheAvengingKnee wrote:
 Daedalus81 wrote:
the_scotsman wrote:


You know, the six to seven army wide special rules they get in addition to the crazy bs on their profiles that make 7th ed eldar pale in comparison. But don't worry, they dont have a plethora of special rules daed said so

Hey remember when fire dragons got +1 on the damage table on their melta guns? Shoot twice melta unit lololol.

Incidentally the first GT results just came in. 4/10 marine armies, 4/10 custodes armies in the top 10. Shocked pikachu face.


I acknowledge the layered rules. I'm just talking about unit design.

Who the hell is hosting a GT? How many players and how many were marine?


I’m curious as well, would love to see more detailed results.


I found this using bing. https://bloodofkittens.com/blog/2020/07/29/we-have-our-1st-9th-edition-tournament-results/

First place was roughly half marines and half sisters. 2nd place custodes, 3rd place GK.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Gadzilla666 wrote:
Lists would be nice. Did the loyalist players use any of the Indomutus units? That would be some serious speed painting if they did.

According to what I found the first player did have eradicators and one squad of bladeguard. The rest of the list was old marines and sisters.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/07/31 20:07:23


 
   
Made in it
Longtime Dakkanaut





Most of those lists were simply 8th lists adapted to 9th, but there are some interesting take aways.

No pure vanilla marines went 5-0 or 4-1. There is just one blood angel list that went 4-1, but from just one event and without knowing how many marines were there, this doesn't mean much.

The GK list that came third was a terminator spam list! The Custodes list that came second was also heavy on bananators. Could it be a theme?

The first list is a soup, and a marine soup none the less. A soup correctly used to cover the armies weaknesses, even if it costed CP and doctrines from 2 factions.
   
Made in us
Mutated Chosen Chaos Marine




The dark hollows of Kentucky

Thanks Blood Hawk. Interesting to see soup still on the menu.
   
Made in us
Blood Angel Terminator with Lightning Claws



Sioux Falls, SD

 Blood Hawk wrote:
TheAvengingKnee wrote:
 Daedalus81 wrote:
the_scotsman wrote:


You know, the six to seven army wide special rules they get in addition to the crazy bs on their profiles that make 7th ed eldar pale in comparison. But don't worry, they dont have a plethora of special rules daed said so

Hey remember when fire dragons got +1 on the damage table on their melta guns? Shoot twice melta unit lololol.

Incidentally the first GT results just came in. 4/10 marine armies, 4/10 custodes armies in the top 10. Shocked pikachu face.


I acknowledge the layered rules. I'm just talking about unit design.

Who the hell is hosting a GT? How many players and how many were marine?


I’m curious as well, would love to see more detailed results.


I found this using bing. https://bloodofkittens.com/blog/2020/07/29/we-have-our-1st-9th-edition-tournament-results/

First place was roughly half marines and half sisters. 2nd place custodes, 3rd place GK.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Gadzilla666 wrote:
Lists would be nice. Did the loyalist players use any of the Indomutus units? That would be some serious speed painting if they did.

According to what I found the first player did have eradicators and one squad of bladeguard. The rest of the list was old marines and sisters.


Thanks for the link, it was interesting to see what people came up with, the marine/sister list spammed a bunch of relic contemptors, I am curious to see if they go up in points with the forge world books since they currently cost the same as the comtemptor Morris dreads with a much better statline and rules.

Blood for the bloo... wait no, I meant for Sanguinius!  
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




Illinois

TheAvengingKnee wrote:
 Blood Hawk wrote:
TheAvengingKnee wrote:
 Daedalus81 wrote:
the_scotsman wrote:


You know, the six to seven army wide special rules they get in addition to the crazy bs on their profiles that make 7th ed eldar pale in comparison. But don't worry, they dont have a plethora of special rules daed said so

Hey remember when fire dragons got +1 on the damage table on their melta guns? Shoot twice melta unit lololol.

Incidentally the first GT results just came in. 4/10 marine armies, 4/10 custodes armies in the top 10. Shocked pikachu face.


I acknowledge the layered rules. I'm just talking about unit design.

Who the hell is hosting a GT? How many players and how many were marine?


I’m curious as well, would love to see more detailed results.


I found this using bing. https://bloodofkittens.com/blog/2020/07/29/we-have-our-1st-9th-edition-tournament-results/

First place was roughly half marines and half sisters. 2nd place custodes, 3rd place GK.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Gadzilla666 wrote:
Lists would be nice. Did the loyalist players use any of the Indomutus units? That would be some serious speed painting if they did.

According to what I found the first player did have eradicators and one squad of bladeguard. The rest of the list was old marines and sisters.


Thanks for the link, it was interesting to see what people came up with, the marine/sister list spammed a bunch of relic contemptors, I am curious to see if they go up in points with the forge world books since they currently cost the same as the comtemptor Morris dreads with a much better statline and rules.

My guess is that the relic rules will probably change. I would like to see something like 1 per detachment myself.
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




 Gadzilla666 wrote:
Thanks Blood Hawk. Interesting to see soup still on the menu.


The list is a bit odd perhaps - but the survival of soup itself is not hugely surprising. I think quite a few people are agonising over a couple of CP. Certain factions really need them but others don't really. Or rather something like 9+1 a turn gives you plenty to play with. Especially if you start with some extra or have a way to generate an additional 1 each turn.
   
Made in us
Blood Angel Terminator with Lightning Claws



Sioux Falls, SD

 Blood Hawk wrote:
Spoiler:
TheAvengingKnee wrote:
 Blood Hawk wrote:
TheAvengingKnee wrote:
 Daedalus81 wrote:
the_scotsman wrote:


You know, the six to seven army wide special rules they get in addition to the crazy bs on their profiles that make 7th ed eldar pale in comparison. But don't worry, they dont have a plethora of special rules daed said so

Hey remember when fire dragons got +1 on the damage table on their melta guns? Shoot twice melta unit lololol.

Incidentally the first GT results just came in. 4/10 marine armies, 4/10 custodes armies in the top 10. Shocked pikachu face.


I acknowledge the layered rules. I'm just talking about unit design.

Who the hell is hosting a GT? How many players and how many were marine?


I’m curious as well, would love to see more detailed results.


I found this using bing. https://bloodofkittens.com/blog/2020/07/29/we-have-our-1st-9th-edition-tournament-results/

First place was roughly half marines and half sisters. 2nd place custodes, 3rd place GK.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Gadzilla666 wrote:
Lists would be nice. Did the loyalist players use any of the Indomutus units? That would be some serious speed painting if they did.

According to what I found the first player did have eradicators and one squad of bladeguard. The rest of the list was old marines and sisters.


Thanks for the link, it was interesting to see what people came up with, the marine/sister list spammed a bunch of relic contemptors, I am curious to see if they go up in points with the forge world books since they currently cost the same as the comtemptor Morris dreads with a much better statline and rules.

My guess is that the relic rules will probably change. I would like to see something like 1 per detachment myself.


That would be pretty fair, I have a few relic units but would be cool with them limiting relics or even make it a max of 1 relic unit in each category so you could have a relic elite and heavy but not 2 elites, or 1 relic unit at certain point breaks so 1k and lower 1, 2k 2, 3k 3 etc...

Blood for the bloo... wait no, I meant for Sanguinius!  
   
Made in us
Mutated Chosen Chaos Marine




The dark hollows of Kentucky

 Blood Hawk wrote:
TheAvengingKnee wrote:
Spoiler:
 Blood Hawk wrote:
TheAvengingKnee wrote:
 Daedalus81 wrote:
the_scotsman wrote:


You know, the six to seven army wide special rules they get in addition to the crazy bs on their profiles that make 7th ed eldar pale in comparison. But don't worry, they dont have a plethora of special rules daed said so

Hey remember when fire dragons got +1 on the damage table on their melta guns? Shoot twice melta unit lololol.

Incidentally the first GT results just came in. 4/10 marine armies, 4/10 custodes armies in the top 10. Shocked pikachu face.


I acknowledge the layered rules. I'm just talking about unit design.

Who the hell is hosting a GT? How many players and how many were marine?


I’m curious as well, would love to see more detailed results.


I found this using bing. https://bloodofkittens.com/blog/2020/07/29/we-have-our-1st-9th-edition-tournament-results/

First place was roughly half marines and half sisters. 2nd place custodes, 3rd place GK.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Gadzilla666 wrote:
Lists would be nice. Did the loyalist players use any of the Indomutus units? That would be some serious speed painting if they did.

According to what I found the first player did have eradicators and one squad of bladeguard. The rest of the list was old marines and sisters.


Thanks for the link, it was interesting to see what people came up with, the marine/sister list spammed a bunch of relic contemptors, I am curious to see if they go up in points with the forge world books since they currently cost the same as the comtemptor Morris dreads with a much better statline and rules.

My guess is that the relic rules will probably change. I would like to see something like 1 per detachment myself.

So would I. More limitations would be nice. I mean, how is it your chapter/Legion has three of these super rare ancient relics? Limitations are good, HH proves that.

Also interesting to see that the loyalist/Sisters army won without any mono faction bonuses.
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut




There are limitations to be fair. Whether or not you think "you need another elite for each Relic Contemptor you take" is fair is a different story. Personally just from the price that's perfectly fair, as otherwise you'd be stuck using the garbage GW rules version that loses movement.

CaptainStabby wrote:
If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.

 jy2 wrote:
BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.

 vipoid wrote:
Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?

 MarsNZ wrote:
ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




Actually think the worrying thing - which is obvious but perhaps its good to see it laid out explicitly - is how this could become secondaryhammer, at the top end, on the assumption that pushing your opponent off 2 objectives (mission dependent) is just too difficult (while, at least theoretically, devoting units to holding the other 4.)

With attrition being resurrected ITC kill more - with a reasonable chance of getting say 12 points with certain lists, if not the full 15, compared with other options that are incredibly hard to maximise and may not even get near.

Starting to see how Custodes can work. You just deny most of the killy secondaries, while giving a good chance of claiming attrition + any others depending on your opponents comp.

I guess there is a mechanical argument about how easy secondaries should be the claim, but sort of feels like there really needs to be the equivalent of gangbusters.
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





 Blood Hawk wrote:


I found this using bing. https://bloodofkittens.com/blog/2020/07/29/we-have-our-1st-9th-edition-tournament-results/

First place was roughly half marines and half sisters. 2nd place custodes, 3rd place GK.


But...Primaris?!

Only 10% of the armies were xenos, so yea, lots of marines would be expected in the top 10, but then one is soup and one is GK, which isn't exactly the "GW makes Primaris super awesome to win everything".

1) Imperial Soup
2) Custodes
3) GK
4) Eldar
5) BA
6) Custodes
7) IH w/ 9 dreadnoughts
8) Custodes
9) Custodes
10) CSM / Baby Knights / Daemons

And the rest:
GK, Custodes, Nurgle, DG, Custodes, UM, Imperium, White Scars, DG, UM, CK, AM & Custodes, Marines, Nurgle, Chaos, Sisters, BA, Chaos, Kraken, Tau


   
Made in it
Longtime Dakkanaut





Yeah, it was quite a poor showing for primarines.
5/31 vanilla marine lists and only one made it into the top 10... and contained almost no primaries.

But I wouldn't base conclusions on just a single event.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/08/01 06:24:10


 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





Spoletta wrote:
Yeah, it was quite a poor showing for primarines.
5/31 vanilla marine lists and only one made it into the top 10... and contained almost no primaries.

But I wouldn't base conclusions on just a single event.


Oh, I definitely won't. Despite the snarky disingenuous retorts towards people who say "wait for the rules, FAQs, points, etc", because the real goal is to play games and then assess.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/08/01 07:31:03


   
Made in ca
Legendary Master of the Chapter





I do think we can conclude from looking at the list that those who said 9th edition would likely favor more elite armies, are indeed being born out.

the winner apparently noted less people are relying on Aura stacking, which vindicates me as I was commenting earlier in the thread that Aura stacking would NOT be as easy. (this is going to especially be true if the limits on certain HQs per detachment we know is coming for Marines ends up being a thing common to many armies)

I expect it'll be about HQ placement and prioritization. reckongizing where your HQs need to be for maximum impact etc.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/08/01 07:51:20


Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





Side note...relics and spells on lists is soooo helpful for reading how it was played.

   
Made in it
Longtime Dakkanaut





BrianDavion wrote:
I do think we can conclude from looking at the list that those who said 9th edition would likely favor more elite armies, are indeed being born out.

the winner apparently noted less people are relying on Aura stacking, which vindicates me as I was commenting earlier in the thread that Aura stacking would NOT be as easy. (this is going to especially be true if the limits on certain HQs per detachment we know is coming for Marines ends up being a thing common to many armies)

I expect it'll be about HQ placement and prioritization. reckongizing where your HQs need to be for maximum impact etc.


Yeah, I cannot help but smile when I see people mathammering against primaries in 5++/5+++. Sure, like in this edition you can keep your army under a 3" aura...
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





Looking at points scored there is definitely some skill gaps.

Also #1 has a fortification. That just feels weird.

   
Made in ch
Warped Arch Heretic of Chaos





 Daedalus81 wrote:
Looking at points scored there is definitely some skill gaps.

Also #1 has a fortification. That just feels weird.


the new one or just random guaranteed cover?

also the list disgusts me, only IoM with one Eldar and one csm under top 10

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/08/01 09:09:07


https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page
A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

In the 41st millennium there is only overpriced hamberders.

 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




Spoletta wrote:
Yeah, I cannot help but smile when I see people mathammering against primaries in 5++/5+++. Sure, like in this edition you can keep your army under a 3" aura...


Just in case I've missed a FAQ - its 6" isn't it?
And pretty sure people will.
You have to move your blob into the centre of the table, to claim the central objectives by at least turn 3, but that's sort of how ITC/CA19 worked anyway at a top end, where your opponent would just play the objectives if you were intent on hiding in a corner for 5 turns. You are going to go second half the time, and having solid defences up for turn 1 and turn 2 makes sense.

Its going to be like Tau in 8th. Get it right and it should work really well. Don't, and you end up thinking they are mid, perhaps even weak faction that just doesn't work with the game.
Its probably the main skill in 40k.
   
Made in it
Longtime Dakkanaut





You can keep that kind of aura stacking on a unit, maybe 2. But if you really try to keep your army under the bubble, you have conceded the game.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut






I love my custodes, and i certainly feel they are in a better place now than in 8th, but we are still majorly lacking in the amount of models we can put on the board.


Eradicators take a dump on us too.

The points i pay per model in my custodes army means that one unit of eradicators gets its points back in kills every turn that it shoots.

So even if they hold them off the board until turn 2, those 3 units of eradicators can come in and kill both my grav tanks fairly easily and mabey even take out a guard squad as well.

Thats basically all my long ranged firepower taken out by 9 marines that cost what, 28% of the marine army's points in one turn.

Since the only thing my army is good at is being durable, and to them nothing is durable, why do i only get to use 20 ish models to a marine armies 40-50 models?

That single datasheet invalidates most of my army.

JOIN MY CRUSADE and gain 4000 RT points!
http://www.eternalcrusade.com/account/sign-up/?ref_code=EC-PLCIKYCABW8PG 
   
Made in au
Witch Hunter Undercover in a Cult







Not Online!!! wrote:
 Daedalus81 wrote:
Looking at points scored there is definitely some skill gaps.

Also #1 has a fortification. That just feels weird.


the new one or just random guaranteed cover?

also the list disgusts me, only IoM with one Eldar and one csm under top 10

It's the Battle Sanctum. It was already pretty good in 8th (but never really taken because of the detachment limits people played with and the opportunity cost of missing out on extra CP), but with the detachment changes in 9th it's only gotten better.
Free additional Miracle Dice for the Sisters.
   
Made in us
Unbalanced Fanatic






 Eihnlazer wrote:
I love my custodes, and i certainly feel they are in a better place now than in 8th, but we are still majorly lacking in the amount of models we can put on the board.


Eradicators take a dump on us too.

The points i pay per model in my custodes army means that one unit of eradicators gets its points back in kills every turn that it shoots.

So even if they hold them off the board until turn 2, those 3 units of eradicators can come in and kill both my grav tanks fairly easily and mabey even take out a guard squad as well.

Thats basically all my long ranged firepower taken out by 9 marines that cost what, 28% of the marine army's points in one turn.

Since the only thing my army is good at is being durable, and to them nothing is durable, why do i only get to use 20 ish models to a marine armies 40-50 models?

That single datasheet invalidates most of my army.
There is a strong argument to be made for simply refusing to play against anyone using eradicators and bladeguard, unless they agree to handicap them somehow by removing their double shoot or making their power swords D1 or something.

But I will say that our Custodes are always going to be low on models, complaining about it is like complaining that orks have poor BS. Custodes are probably in the best spot they have ever been in since the first models were released back in 7th, it's just that doesn't mean much when SM are so dominant. Although if you want to try to buff up your model count, you could try to include some SOS in your army. I've filled up a rhino with half flamers and half swords, it's cheaper than a squad of bikes but can really only prey on lone units, a glass cannon in a metal box.
   
Made in ca
Legendary Master of the Chapter





I think forfitting the game because someone ahs a single blade guard vetern or eradicator squad is a little over the top.

Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two 
   
Made in us
Mutated Chosen Chaos Marine




The dark hollows of Kentucky

BrianDavion wrote:
I think forfitting the game because someone ahs a single blade guard vetern or eradicator squad is a little over the top.

And lame. How do you know whether you can beat them or not if you don't try?
   
Made in au
Longtime Dakkanaut




 Gadzilla666 wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
I think forfitting the game because someone ahs a single blade guard vetern or eradicator squad is a little over the top.

And lame. How do you know whether you can beat them or not if you don't try?


When it was scatbikes that was what happen to me with my eldar Lots of WAC thrown around online as well. Why i dont think its good for players, Sometimes i wonder if its the only way GW would get there act together on these sort of things.
   
Made in us
Tzeentch Doomlord Pilot




Noctis Labyrinthus

 Eihnlazer wrote:
I love my custodes, and i certainly feel they are in a better place now than in 8th, but we are still majorly lacking in the amount of models we can put on the board.


Eradicators take a dump on us too.

The points i pay per model in my custodes army means that one unit of eradicators gets its points back in kills every turn that it shoots.

So even if they hold them off the board until turn 2, those 3 units of eradicators can come in and kill both my grav tanks fairly easily and mabey even take out a guard squad as well.

Thats basically all my long ranged firepower taken out by 9 marines that cost what, 28% of the marine army's points in one turn.

Since the only thing my army is good at is being durable, and to them nothing is durable, why do i only get to use 20 ish models to a marine armies 40-50 models?

That single datasheet invalidates most of my army.
Custodes are top five strongest in the entire game, possibly top three.

A single Eradicator unit firing six shots at a Caladius Grav Tank on average is going to do 6-7 wounds. Two will do over 12 on average, with it requiring all three firing on it to have an above 50% chance to pop it in one shooting phase. If you use the Shadowkeeper strat when the Eradicators pop up to destroy your Caladius you can also then pop their strat to lower their guns to strength 7 so they're wounding you on 4s, dropping their average damage to 4-5. If they're in half range then obviously their odds go up, but even then on average they're not popping the grav tank with one double shoot. Two squads double shooting on average will pop it then, but then two squads of Eradicators costs slightly more than your Caladius.

As far as a Custodian Guard squad? You'll probably lose one model from six shots coming your way if you're running spear guard. If you're running storm shield guard you have better odds of surviving, but one unsaved wound on average will kill them. But it would be pretty bad luck to lose the entire squad.

Your entire army has at worst a 5++ on everything, including your vehicles. The Telemon has a 4++ and a 6+++ and on average is going to lose less than nine wounds, and that's only if all three Eradicator squads are firing on him. With the Shadowkeeper strat he's losing less than six on average.
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut




Apple fox wrote:
 Gadzilla666 wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
I think forfitting the game because someone ahs a single blade guard vetern or eradicator squad is a little over the top.

And lame. How do you know whether you can beat them or not if you don't try?


When it was scatbikes that was what happen to me with my eldar Lots of WAC thrown around online as well. Why i dont think its good for players, Sometimes i wonder if its the only way GW would get there act together on these sort of things.

Imagine thinking either Bladeguard or Eradicators are even close to being the same level as Scatterbikes

CaptainStabby wrote:
If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.

 jy2 wrote:
BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.

 vipoid wrote:
Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?

 MarsNZ wrote:
ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
 
   
 
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