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Made in us
Ancient Ultramarine Venerable Dreadnought






On the flip side, the encouragement of big units of Warriors means you get more usage out of those Blast weapons. One of my Plasma Devastator squads kills 13 Warriors with the rerolls that they're always getting.
.888 x .96 x 3 x 3 + (.96 x .96 x 2 x 3) = 13.2

Grav gets me
.888 x .777 x 4 x 3 + (.96 x .777 x 2 x 4) = 14.24 without Grav Strat

At the moment Sternguard under Tactical Doctrine get me 13.7 with SI bolter Strat
20 x .888 x .777 = 13.7

Storm Bolters get me 14
40 x .888 x .6 x .666 = 14.1

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/09/15 19:07:21


And They Shall Not Fit Through Doors!!!

Tyranid Army Progress -- With Classic Warriors!:
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/743240.page#9671598 
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User





 Insectum7 wrote:
On the flip side, the encouragement of big units of Warriors means you get more usage out of those Blast weapons. One of my Plasma Devastator squads kills 13 Warriors with the rerolls that they're always getting.
.888 x .96 x 3 x 3 + (.96 x .96 x 2 x 3) = 13.2

Grav gets me
.888 x .777 x 4 x 3 + (.96 x .777 x 2 x 4) = 14.24 without Grav Strat

At the moment Sternguard under Tactical Doctrine get me 13.7 with SI bolter Strat
20 x .888 x .777 = 13.7

Storm Bolters get me 14
40 x .888 x .6 x .666 = 14.1


That is an interesting point I didn't think of. Looks like 10 man Immortal squads might be the order of the day for Necron players then.
   
Made in us
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 Alwrath wrote:

That is an interesting point I didn't think of. Looks like 10 man Immortal squads might be the order of the day for Necron players then.


Actually, on second thought Plasma gets full hits against 10 models because it's only a D3 blast.

Plasma vs Immortals
(.888 x .777 x .83 x 9 +(.96 x .777 x .83 x 6) = 9.98

Grav (no Strat)
.888 x .6 x .83 x 4 x 3 + (.96 x .6 x .83 x 4 x 2) = 10.2

Storm bolters in tactical
.888 x .4 x .04 x 40 = 7.1

Sternguard SI Bolters with Strat
.888 x .6 x .83 x 20 = 8.8

And They Shall Not Fit Through Doors!!!

Tyranid Army Progress -- With Classic Warriors!:
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/743240.page#9671598 
   
Made in us
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That is an interesting point I didn't think of. Looks like 10 man Immortal squads might be the order of the day for Necron players then.


I'm going to just go ahead and take credit for this. I stocked up on 40 new warriors two days ago, so, you know, my special luck caused this.

Seriously though, while we still need more info - the new RP preview does give me hope! I was pretty nervous they'd botch it again, but this doesn't look terrible.

Edit: I just googled ablutions and apparently it does not including dropping a duece. I should have looked it up early sorry for any confusion. - Baldsmug

Psiensis on the "good old days":
"Kids these days...
... I invented the 6th Ed meta back in 3rd ed.
Wait, what were we talking about again? Did I ever tell you about the time I gave you five bees for a quarter? That's what you'd say in those days, "give me five bees for a quarter", is what you'd say in those days. And you'd go down to the D&D shop, with an onion in your belt, 'cause that was the style of the time. So there I was in the D&D shop..." 
   
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Tycho wrote:
That is an interesting point I didn't think of. Looks like 10 man Immortal squads might be the order of the day for Necron players then.


I'm going to just go ahead and take credit for this. I stocked up on 40 new warriors two days ago, so, you know, my special luck caused this.

Seriously though, while we still need more info - the new RP preview does give me hope! I was pretty nervous they'd botch it again, but this doesn't look terrible.


Eh not every army has blast weapons, plus with + to RP rolls and re rolling 1's im sure 20 warrior blobs will be competitive.
   
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Somewhere over the rainbow, way up high

 Alwrath wrote:
Tycho wrote:
That is an interesting point I didn't think of. Looks like 10 man Immortal squads might be the order of the day for Necron players then.


I'm going to just go ahead and take credit for this. I stocked up on 40 new warriors two days ago, so, you know, my special luck caused this.

Seriously though, while we still need more info - the new RP preview does give me hope! I was pretty nervous they'd botch it again, but this doesn't look terrible.


Eh not every army has blast weapons, plus with + to RP rolls and re rolling 1's im sure 20 warrior blobs will be competitive.


Trick for warriors is still going to be getting them chronometron support. Never being able to get worse than a 5++ adds a lot of mileage to their durability.

Bedouin Dynasty: 10000 pts
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MajorStoffer wrote:
...
Sternguard though, those guys are all about kicking ass. They'd chew bubble gum as well, but bubble gum is heretical. Only tau chew gum. 
   
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 Insectum7 wrote:


Why is it stupid, exactly? There's practically no limit to the available resources available to a galaxy spanning empire, and thete's no reason that aliens have to follow a template based around humans. There's no lore problem making a horde of insanely powerful beings. A la, Tyranids, for which there are going to be more Carnifexes in the galaxy than Space Marines.


And I imagine that, if Immortals were at minimum more durable than Marines, they'd also be more numerous in an absolute sense than Marines would be in the galaxy. I imagine there's also probably more hive tyrants than there are Custodian Guard.

But I can also guarantee you that in the majority of battles between Space Marines and Necrons, there are considerably more Warriors on the field than there are Space Marines. The opposite is true with Carnifexes and Marines: in absolute terms galaxy-wide the Marines are outnumbered, but in an individual battle? There are typically going to be more Marines than there will be Carnifexes.

And the game is meant to simulate battles, not the sum totality of an entire factions' soldiers in the entire galaxy.

Necron Warriors either have to be less numerous on the battlefield or somewhat chaffier than Marines. They can't overwhelm with numbers while also being individually more formidable. It's a ridiculous notion and one I'm glad GW will never lend any credence toward.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 catbarf wrote:

But it worked back in 3rd/4th, where Necron Warriors were individually better than Marines, but the army as a whole lacked models in between infantry and heavy vehicles, and the Phase Out rule encouraged beefing up your numbers.

Without transports, light tanks, Dreadnoughts, or even large infantry like Ogryns or heavy infantry like Terminators to suck up points, your average Necron list was a Monolith, some Destroyers, and a sea of infantry. I remember it was pretty common for a Necron army to have 60+ models on the table, and back in 3rd that was a considerable number of dudes.

Reducing the capability of the individual Necron Warrior while also adding a bunch of vehicles and heavy infantry really changed the flavor of the army. Not saying it was necessarily the wrong move as the original design was constraining, but the army concept of a legion of Terminators was unique and it worked.


Ah so you're saying that to facilitate the horde of badass skeleton robots who also happen to be stronger man to man than Marines we just need to heavily limit their ability to take transports, light tanks, walkers, or bulky infantry and force them to skew towards big blobs of Warriors.

Thank God GW will never listen to you tbh, because that is incredibly boring.

I'm only talking about warriors here. I'd like Immortals to be a heavier troop choice that are at least more durable than Marines overall, T5 3+ with two wounds and WBB with guns better than an intercessor. A more elite troop choice for Necron players that want to lean on them.

But Warriors are fine being 4+ T4.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/09/16 08:31:31


 
   
Made in us
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 Void__Dragon wrote:
 Insectum7 wrote:


Why is it stupid, exactly? There's practically no limit to the available resources available to a galaxy spanning empire, and thete's no reason that aliens have to follow a template based around humans. There's no lore problem making a horde of insanely powerful beings. A la, Tyranids, for which there are going to be more Carnifexes in the galaxy than Space Marines.


And I imagine that, if Immortals were at minimum more durable than Marines, they'd also be more numerous in an absolute sense than Marines would be in the galaxy. I imagine there's also probably more hive tyrants than there are Custodian Guard.

But I can also guarantee you that in the majority of battles between Space Marines and Necrons, there are considerably more Warriors on the field than there are Space Marines. The opposite is true with Carnifexes and Marines: in absolute terms galaxy-wide the Marines are outnumbered, but in an individual battle? There are typically going to be more Marines than there will be Carnifexes.

And the game is meant to simulate battles, not the sum totality of an entire factions' soldiers in the entire galaxy.

Necron Warriors either have to be less numerous on the battlefield or somewhat chaffier than Marines. They can't overwhelm with numbers while also being individually more formidable. It's a ridiculous notion and one I'm glad GW will never lend any credence toward.

Again, GW managed it in the past with some clever design.

Heck, I've outnumbered Marine armies with hordes of Tyranid Warriors during 8th. If Necron Warriors cost, and were worth, 20 points, you could still fit 90+ of them plus a Lord in a 2K army. Whether or not one army outnumbers another is strictly down to composition.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Void__Dragon wrote:

Ah so you're saying that to facilitate the horde of badass skeleton robots who also happen to be stronger man to man than Marines we just need to heavily limit their ability to take transports, light tanks, walkers, or bulky infantry and force them to skew towards big blobs of Warriors.

Honestly? F all that junk. That's the watering down of Crons into something more like other factions.

Classic Crons didn't need transports, they just telepoted around using floating pyramids. It was awesomesauce.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/09/16 08:40:28


And They Shall Not Fit Through Doors!!!

Tyranid Army Progress -- With Classic Warriors!:
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/743240.page#9671598 
   
Made in ie
Regular Dakkanaut






I really miss the teleportation shenanigans myself. The old crons had a lot more character in their play style and they really did capture that "ancient techno doom" that was beyond the understanding of the imperium.

I do really see where you're coming from because when Necrons became Tomb Kings in space I dropped them completely and only got back to them in the last year or so. When IG we're an easy win at the start of 8th I moved back to Necrons to make things a bit more fun

On one hand I do really miss the old play style where they were incredibly powerful and had character on the table, but at the same time, the small unit roster helped facilitate that, and I don't think the legions of unstoppable doom really works with such a large roster like they have now. I'm conflicted, because ai really miss how they use to play, but at the same time I love the new models and diversity they bring

   
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Agreed. Deep strike Monolith, reposition infantry through monolith, Veil of Darkness teleport, move monolith/turn facing + reposition more infantry rinse repeat

(Noob question; how are you guys resizing your text? Mine is always super small and hard to read)

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/09/16 10:21:55


 
   
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 Sentineil wrote:
I really miss the teleportation shenanigans myself. The old crons had a lot more character in their play style and they really did capture that "ancient techno doom" that was beyond the understanding of the imperium.

I do really see where you're coming from because when Necrons became Tomb Kings in space I dropped them completely and only got back to them in the last year or so. When IG we're an easy win at the start of 8th I moved back to Necrons to make things a bit more fun

On one hand I do really miss the old play style where they were incredibly powerful and had character on the table, but at the same time, the small unit roster helped facilitate that, and I don't think the legions of unstoppable doom really works with such a large roster like they have now. I'm conflicted, because ai really miss how they use to play, but at the same time I love the new models and diversity they bring
Yeah my interest in Necrons declined rapidly with the 5th Ed book. I have to say my interest in them shot back up again when PA Pariah was announced, because I thought it might have Pariahs. . .

At the moment I might just be looking at collecting a token group of Warriors and Monoliths to recreate that 3rd Ed. glory. I'm hoping the new Monolith model will bring some of it's old abilities or something similar.

-Ňecrontyr- wrote:
Agreed. Deep strike Monolith, reposition infantry through monolith, Veil of Darkness teleport, move monolith/turn facing + reposition more infantry rinse repeat
IT WAS SO GOOOOOOD!!! Just grinding down the opposing army like a slow, inevitable woodchipper.


"(Noob question; how are you guys resizing your text? Mine is always super small and hard to read)"
You on your phone? On a PC you can hit Ctrl+ and increase the text size for the whole window.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/09/16 10:31:45


And They Shall Not Fit Through Doors!!!

Tyranid Army Progress -- With Classic Warriors!:
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/743240.page#9671598 
   
Made in us
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Back then the Monolith simply got d6 shots at everything within range AND plopped down its MEQ-melting blast, denied monstrous creatures and melta their additional armor pen die, and warscythes ignored INVULN saves...
   
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-Ňecrontyr- wrote:
Back then the Monolith simply got d6 shots at everything within range AND plopped down its MEQ-melting blast, denied monstrous creatures and melta their additional armor pen die, and warscythes ignored INVULN saves...
And pull models out of CC and roll for WBB again. Pariahs and Flayed Ones making enemy model freak out. I was just looking at my old book the other day and reminiscing.

And They Shall Not Fit Through Doors!!!

Tyranid Army Progress -- With Classic Warriors!:
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/743240.page#9671598 
   
Made in ie
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We are looking back with rose tinted glasses though. We've all experienced the horror of our monoliths scattering during Deepstrike and ending up in oblivion along with our game plan. That I do not miss!

   
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Question; do you think we will be able to deploy up to a limit of wounds/models through Monoliths/Night scythes, rather than one unit, so that we can actually deply a squad and it support character together?

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2020/09/16 16:30:28


 
   
Made in us
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 Alwrath wrote:
Tycho wrote:
That is an interesting point I didn't think of. Looks like 10 man Immortal squads might be the order of the day for Necron players then.


I'm going to just go ahead and take credit for this. I stocked up on 40 new warriors two days ago, so, you know, my special luck caused this.

Seriously though, while we still need more info - the new RP preview does give me hope! I was pretty nervous they'd botch it again, but this doesn't look terrible.


Eh not every army has blast weapons, plus with + to RP rolls and re rolling 1's im sure 20 warrior blobs will be competitive.


In my dozen or so games of 9th I have taken a 20+ man unit in every game, and my opponents have gotten max shot blast weapons against me a grand total of four times.

As in, four shots that then get max shots. Two of those instances being the dumb little grenade launcher thingies strapped to every Primaris dread and vehicle that do like D6 S4 Ap-.

"I can't believe all these tryhard WAACs out there just care about winning all the time when it's supposed to be a game for fun!!!!!!! Also here's my 27 page essay on why marines are OP and Orkz should get a bunch of OP rules so I can win more games

-the_scotsman"

-ERJAK 
   
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 Alwrath wrote:

Eh not every army has blast weapons, plus with + to RP rolls and re rolling 1's im sure 20 warrior blobs will be competitive.


Every classic faction has blast weapons. No one plays an unaligned army with zoats, spindle drones, ambulls, etc.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/09/16 11:44:11


 
   
Made in us
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 Sentineil wrote:
We are looking back with rose tinted glasses though. We've all experienced the horror of our monoliths scattering during Deepstrike and ending up in oblivion along with our game plan. That I do not miss!
No sir, the Monolith had some special rules that made it relatively safe. You just had to avoid table edges, iirc.

And They Shall Not Fit Through Doors!!!

Tyranid Army Progress -- With Classic Warriors!:
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/743240.page#9671598 
   
Made in gb
Frenzied Berserker Terminator




 p5freak wrote:
 Alwrath wrote:

Eh not every army has blast weapons, plus with + to RP rolls and re rolling 1's im sure 20 warrior blobs will be competitive.


Every classic faction has blast weapons. No one plays an unaligned army with zoats, spindle drones, ambulls, etc.


In my 4k of chaos marines I don't own a single blast weapon (somehow)
   
Made in us
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Dudeface wrote:
 p5freak wrote:
 Alwrath wrote:

Eh not every army has blast weapons, plus with + to RP rolls and re rolling 1's im sure 20 warrior blobs will be competitive.


Every classic faction has blast weapons. No one plays an unaligned army with zoats, spindle drones, ambulls, etc.


In my 4k of chaos marines I don't own a single blast weapon (somehow)
Frag Grenades?

And They Shall Not Fit Through Doors!!!

Tyranid Army Progress -- With Classic Warriors!:
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/743240.page#9671598 
   
Made in ch
Warped Arch Heretic of Chaos





Dudeface wrote:
 p5freak wrote:
 Alwrath wrote:

Eh not every army has blast weapons, plus with + to RP rolls and re rolling 1's im sure 20 warrior blobs will be competitive.


Every classic faction has blast weapons. No one plays an unaligned army with zoats, spindle drones, ambulls, etc.


In my 4k of chaos marines I don't own a single blast weapon (somehow)


So you are telling me that you neither own Any of the following:
DAkkafiend, vindicator, Defieler, varionus FW entries, rocket launchers, havoc rocket launchers?

I mean, i can see armis that would field neither but at some stage you'd surely hae a rhino with ahavoc launcher somewhere?

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page
A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

In the 41st millennium there is only overpriced hamberders.

 
   
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Not Online!!! wrote:
Dudeface wrote:
 p5freak wrote:
 Alwrath wrote:

Eh not every army has blast weapons, plus with + to RP rolls and re rolling 1's im sure 20 warrior blobs will be competitive.


Every classic faction has blast weapons. No one plays an unaligned army with zoats, spindle drones, ambulls, etc.


In my 4k of chaos marines I don't own a single blast weapon (somehow)


So you are telling me that you neither own Any of the following:
DAkkafiend, vindicator, Defieler, varionus FW entries, rocket launchers, havoc rocket launchers?

I mean, i can see armis that would field neither but at some stage you'd surely hae a rhino with ahavoc launcher somewhere?


3 rhinos, no havoc launchers. Got a decimator but none of the blast options. Havoc unit is lascannons and most of my infantry units have special weapons rather than heavy. Do not own any of the above currently.

Edit: I lie. They all have frag grenades

Gotta remember for a long time missile launchers were overpriced, the rhino I kept cheap historically, maulerfiends > hades fiends > plasma fiends. Defilers sucked for a long time and are hideous imo, vindicators I was tempted by when they went full d6 shots but hedged my money for some sisters instead.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/09/16 12:37:17


 
   
Made in ch
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Do you own CSM?
Then you own frag nades which are blast tho...

NVM

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/09/16 12:35:34


https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page
A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

In the 41st millennium there is only overpriced hamberders.

 
   
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Tacoma, WA, USA

 Insectum7 wrote:
 Void__Dragon wrote:
 Insectum7 wrote:


Why is it stupid, exactly? There's practically no limit to the available resources available to a galaxy spanning empire, and thete's no reason that aliens have to follow a template based around humans. There's no lore problem making a horde of insanely powerful beings. A la, Tyranids, for which there are going to be more Carnifexes in the galaxy than Space Marines.


And I imagine that, if Immortals were at minimum more durable than Marines, they'd also be more numerous in an absolute sense than Marines would be in the galaxy. I imagine there's also probably more hive tyrants than there are Custodian Guard.

But I can also guarantee you that in the majority of battles between Space Marines and Necrons, there are considerably more Warriors on the field than there are Space Marines. The opposite is true with Carnifexes and Marines: in absolute terms galaxy-wide the Marines are outnumbered, but in an individual battle? There are typically going to be more Marines than there will be Carnifexes.

And the game is meant to simulate battles, not the sum totality of an entire factions' soldiers in the entire galaxy.

Necron Warriors either have to be less numerous on the battlefield or somewhat chaffier than Marines. They can't overwhelm with numbers while also being individually more formidable. It's a ridiculous notion and one I'm glad GW will never lend any credence toward.

Again, GW managed it in the past with some clever design.
From my recollection, Necron players fielded lots of Warriors because of Phase Out. I don't think having the Necron player lose the game if 3/4 of this Necron models died qualifies as clever design.
   
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 catbarf wrote:
 Xenomancers wrote:
 Insectum7 wrote:
Best Necron Troop, T5 1W. - Best SM Troop, T5 3W

It's great Necrons are getting attention and new models and all, but gosh is it rough seeing a faction once known for it's incredibly tough troops just dwindle into a horde in comparison to what Marines can field.

Interesting comparison. We don't know the cost of the heavy intercessor yet do we? In any case. It really seems you are choosing between damage (immortals) or durability (heavy intercessors) here.

Immortal gauss is 5 ap-2 range 30 rapid fire 1
HI 5 ap-1 range 36 rapid fire 1

Same toughness/same attacks/same save. Crons have Reanimate (buffed now - it's basically FNP 5+) I can wager the HI is around 30-35 points...so about 2 for 1 on the immortals.


Well for one thing, saying that the Immortals have the edge in firepower is just wrong, considering the Heavy Ints have the same AP in Tactical doctrine, but also better range, and much more widespread access to force multipliers (unless things are REALLY changing in the new book).

For another, Insectum's complaint is that Immortals are now hordes in comparison to Marines, and you're countering by pointing out that you can probably take twice as many Immortals as they can take Marines. Rather missing the point I think.

I was just evaluating the unit. if you get close to 2 immortals to the price of the HI you are literally getting twice the firepower if they are firing the same weapon - the immortals weapon is actually better (range is less but 30" on immortals is sufficient to do their job) as sautehc they will rapid fire at the same range anyways. True HI can match the AP of the immortal for turn 2 and 3 but we don't know what special rule the immortals are going to get. I have seen leak reviews that suggest 1 of the new command protocols overlords can take will be a -1 AP buff.

Even using ones special rules and not the other though (immortals) immortals still have more firepower than HI do in the tactical doctrin about twice as much. Also Immortals cost exactly the same as a tactical marine now.


If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder 
   
Made in gb
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 alextroy wrote:
 Insectum7 wrote:
 Void__Dragon wrote:
 Insectum7 wrote:


Why is it stupid, exactly? There's practically no limit to the available resources available to a galaxy spanning empire, and thete's no reason that aliens have to follow a template based around humans. There's no lore problem making a horde of insanely powerful beings. A la, Tyranids, for which there are going to be more Carnifexes in the galaxy than Space Marines.


And I imagine that, if Immortals were at minimum more durable than Marines, they'd also be more numerous in an absolute sense than Marines would be in the galaxy. I imagine there's also probably more hive tyrants than there are Custodian Guard.

But I can also guarantee you that in the majority of battles between Space Marines and Necrons, there are considerably more Warriors on the field than there are Space Marines. The opposite is true with Carnifexes and Marines: in absolute terms galaxy-wide the Marines are outnumbered, but in an individual battle? There are typically going to be more Marines than there will be Carnifexes.

And the game is meant to simulate battles, not the sum totality of an entire factions' soldiers in the entire galaxy.

Necron Warriors either have to be less numerous on the battlefield or somewhat chaffier than Marines. They can't overwhelm with numbers while also being individually more formidable. It's a ridiculous notion and one I'm glad GW will never lend any credence toward.

Again, GW managed it in the past with some clever design.
From my recollection, Necron players fielded lots of Warriors because of Phase Out. I don't think having the Necron player lose the game if 3/4 of this Necron models died qualifies as clever design.


Yup it was very much "Mathematics tell me to hide these 2 units behind this hill in my deployment out of LoS. Good luck!"
   
Made in gb
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I am finding it increasingly difficult to be optimistic about this Necron release. They are an army that it's fair to say have been messed around with a lot. Too much. Since third edition, each codex has fundamentally changed the way they play.

Yes it is amazing and surprising that GW are showing the faction so much attention, but I dislike almost everything we've seen rules wise so far. It all just seems really highly specific, but overall there is no joined up thinking. And some of the decisions on individual unit datasheets are baffling. Especially as it is impossible not to compare to Space Marines.
   
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Dudeface wrote:
Spoiler:
 alextroy wrote:
 Insectum7 wrote:
 Void__Dragon wrote:
 Insectum7 wrote:


Why is it stupid, exactly? There's practically no limit to the available resources available to a galaxy spanning empire, and thete's no reason that aliens have to follow a template based around humans. There's no lore problem making a horde of insanely powerful beings. A la, Tyranids, for which there are going to be more Carnifexes in the galaxy than Space Marines.


And I imagine that, if Immortals were at minimum more durable than Marines, they'd also be more numerous in an absolute sense than Marines would be in the galaxy. I imagine there's also probably more hive tyrants than there are Custodian Guard.

But I can also guarantee you that in the majority of battles between Space Marines and Necrons, there are considerably more Warriors on the field than there are Space Marines. The opposite is true with Carnifexes and Marines: in absolute terms galaxy-wide the Marines are outnumbered, but in an individual battle? There are typically going to be more Marines than there will be Carnifexes.

And the game is meant to simulate battles, not the sum totality of an entire factions' soldiers in the entire galaxy.

Necron Warriors either have to be less numerous on the battlefield or somewhat chaffier than Marines. They can't overwhelm with numbers while also being individually more formidable. It's a ridiculous notion and one I'm glad GW will never lend any credence toward.

Again, GW managed it in the past with some clever design.
From my recollection, Necron players fielded lots of Warriors because of Phase Out. I don't think having the Necron player lose the game if 3/4 of this Necron models died qualifies as clever design.


Yup it was very much "Mathematics tell me to hide these 2 units behind this hill in my deployment out of LoS. Good luck!"
I honestly don't ever remember having to hide anything. So, no.

And I do think it was very clever. It made it possible to field an army that could explicitly feel OP, while at the same time giving the opponent an "out". It also had the effect of making the Monolith, which could also feel very powerful, to begin geeling like a risky proposition when you started taking multiple, while not explicitly limiting the player from doing so. Phase Out was a very unique rule that helped define how Necrons were played and played against.

Ywo thumbs up for whomever decoded on that move.

And They Shall Not Fit Through Doors!!!

Tyranid Army Progress -- With Classic Warriors!:
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/743240.page#9671598 
   
Made in gb
Frenzied Berserker Terminator




 Insectum7 wrote:
Dudeface wrote:
Spoiler:
 alextroy wrote:
 Insectum7 wrote:
 Void__Dragon wrote:
 Insectum7 wrote:


Why is it stupid, exactly? There's practically no limit to the available resources available to a galaxy spanning empire, and thete's no reason that aliens have to follow a template based around humans. There's no lore problem making a horde of insanely powerful beings. A la, Tyranids, for which there are going to be more Carnifexes in the galaxy than Space Marines.


And I imagine that, if Immortals were at minimum more durable than Marines, they'd also be more numerous in an absolute sense than Marines would be in the galaxy. I imagine there's also probably more hive tyrants than there are Custodian Guard.

But I can also guarantee you that in the majority of battles between Space Marines and Necrons, there are considerably more Warriors on the field than there are Space Marines. The opposite is true with Carnifexes and Marines: in absolute terms galaxy-wide the Marines are outnumbered, but in an individual battle? There are typically going to be more Marines than there will be Carnifexes.

And the game is meant to simulate battles, not the sum totality of an entire factions' soldiers in the entire galaxy.

Necron Warriors either have to be less numerous on the battlefield or somewhat chaffier than Marines. They can't overwhelm with numbers while also being individually more formidable. It's a ridiculous notion and one I'm glad GW will never lend any credence toward.

Again, GW managed it in the past with some clever design.
From my recollection, Necron players fielded lots of Warriors because of Phase Out. I don't think having the Necron player lose the game if 3/4 of this Necron models died qualifies as clever design.


Yup it was very much "Mathematics tell me to hide these 2 units behind this hill in my deployment out of LoS. Good luck!"
I honestly don't ever remember having to hide anything. So, no.

And I do think it was very clever. It made it possible to field an army that could explicitly feel OP, while at the same time giving the opponent an "out". It also had the effect of making the Monolith, which could also feel very powerful, to begin geeling like a risky proposition when you started taking multiple, while not explicitly limiting the player from doing so. Phase Out was a very unique rule that helped define how Necrons were played and played against.

Ywo thumbs up for whomever decoded on that move.


I'm glad you didn't play like an ass but I had a regular opponent who hid 1 unit of warriors in a corner somewhere and if that wasn't enough to ensure he couldn't phase out he just veil of darkness on a second unit when it hit a low enough number.
   
Made in us
Ancient Ultramarine Venerable Dreadnought






Dudeface wrote:
Spoiler:
 Insectum7 wrote:
Dudeface wrote:
 alextroy wrote:
 Insectum7 wrote:
 Void__Dragon wrote:
 Insectum7 wrote:


Why is it stupid, exactly? There's practically no limit to the available resources available to a galaxy spanning empire, and thete's no reason that aliens have to follow a template based around humans. There's no lore problem making a horde of insanely powerful beings. A la, Tyranids, for which there are going to be more Carnifexes in the galaxy than Space Marines.


And I imagine that, if Immortals were at minimum more durable than Marines, they'd also be more numerous in an absolute sense than Marines would be in the galaxy. I imagine there's also probably more hive tyrants than there are Custodian Guard.

But I can also guarantee you that in the majority of battles between Space Marines and Necrons, there are considerably more Warriors on the field than there are Space Marines. The opposite is true with Carnifexes and Marines: in absolute terms galaxy-wide the Marines are outnumbered, but in an individual battle? There are typically going to be more Marines than there will be Carnifexes.

And the game is meant to simulate battles, not the sum totality of an entire factions' soldiers in the entire galaxy.

Necron Warriors either have to be less numerous on the battlefield or somewhat chaffier than Marines. They can't overwhelm with numbers while also being individually more formidable. It's a ridiculous notion and one I'm glad GW will never lend any credence toward.

Again, GW managed it in the past with some clever design.
From my recollection, Necron players fielded lots of Warriors because of Phase Out. I don't think having the Necron player lose the game if 3/4 of this Necron models died qualifies as clever design.


Yup it was very much "Mathematics tell me to hide these 2 units behind this hill in my deployment out of LoS. Good luck!"
I honestly don't ever remember having to hide anything. So, no.

And I do think it was very clever. It made it possible to field an army that could explicitly feel OP, while at the same time giving the opponent an "out". It also had the effect of making the Monolith, which could also feel very powerful, to begin geeling like a risky proposition when you started taking multiple, while not explicitly limiting the player from doing so. Phase Out was a very unique rule that helped define how Necrons were played and played against.

Ywo thumbs up for whomever decoded on that move.


I'm glad you didn't play like an ass but I had a regular opponent who hid 1 unit of warriors in a corner somewhere and if that wasn't enough to ensure he couldn't phase out he just veil of darkness on a second unit when it hit a low enough number.
Imo you should have been able to take advantage of him not using some of his army. You're complaining about losing to an opponent who is deliberately holding back models out of fear. I think that one's on you.

And They Shall Not Fit Through Doors!!!

Tyranid Army Progress -- With Classic Warriors!:
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/743240.page#9671598 
   
 
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