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Made in us
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain






A Protoss colony world

leerm02 wrote:
Hey folks, quick question here:

With the DA chapter-tactics, do DA get to shoot flamers in engagement range? I was watching a game the other day and flamers kept coming up as quite good in one army's list... which made me think about the chapter tactic... which made me think: "No way! That would be insane!!"

So, can DA run, for example, a squad of Company vets with flamers in one hand and a storm shield in the other? Being able to move, advance, fire, and then later when they get into melee KEEP FIRING those dang flamers?

Cause if so: wow.

Sure, you could do that. The question is, why would you want to commit the resources to that little trick instead of something a lot more useful? It's not as powerful as it sounds, even with the flamers getting AP-1 in Tactical doctrine.

I have been thinking about Company Veterans, though. Namely the idea of putting Meltaguns/Combis and Storm Shields on them and sticking them in a drop pod to use as a deep strike anti-tank threat. Devastators with Multimeltas are probably just better though for the drop role, although they can't get invul saves unless you put Azrael in the pod with them (which would be a colossal waste of Azrael, obviously!). Yes, technically you could just drop them inside Azzy's shield bubble but then you are limited as to where you can drop. The Veterans, on the other hand, don't need a character to babysit them and are non-trivial to kill (2+/4++ with 2 wounds each takes a decent amount of firepower to remove). If they get killed, that's less guns shooting at the rest of your army. For bonus points, drop the pod on an objective and force your opponent to either waste guns on it or move one of their ObSec units over to that objective, potentially keeping them from being used elsewhere.

But again, it's probably a gimmick and I suspect there are far better uses of your points than suicide melta veterans, not to mention better sources of anti-tank (such as Eradicators and Attack Bikes).

My armies (re-counted and updated on 9/25/20, including modeled wargear options):
Dark Angels: ~16000 | Space Marines (Blood Ravens and others): ~900 | Space Wolves: ~3800
Astra Militarum: ~800 | Officio Assassinorum: ~600 | Imperial Knights: ~1300 | Sisters of Battle: ~1900
Check out my P&M Blogs: ZergSmasher's P&M Blog | Imperial Knights blog | Total models painted in 2020: 47 | Total models painted in 2021: 87 | Current main painting project: Sisters of Battle
 Mr_Rose wrote:
Who doesn’t love crazy mutant squawk-puppies? Eh? Nobody, that’s who.
 
   
Made in us
Deathwing Terminator with Assault Cannon





So anybody looking at alternative builds with the new metas developing? Looking ahead t next spring and wanting to run DAs at a few events.

Currently have a RW/DW combination, but only have 2 MM Attack Bikes at the moment (and tough to find more). I'm also not 100% I want to add more as I doubt they will be so useful later. I do have ATVs an can easily add more. Granted, they are more expensive, cannot get rerolls or healed (although this would allow me to drop Sammael as a buffing character) and 2 of them have decent resiliency with transhuman and invulns.

What I'm building around currently (but see many shortfalls)...

Vanguard
Ezekiel
5 DW knights, watcher
10 DW terms, TH/SS sgt, 2 cyclones, 2 TH/SS (combat squad 2 cyclones and 2 TH/SS to sit on my objective for Stubborn Defiance)
DW ancient with relic

Outrider
Sammy
Talon Master, arbiter's gaze, Brilliant Strategist
Rw chief apothecary
LS vengeance
3 bikes (1 melta), Attack Bike MM
3 bikes (1 melta), Attack Bike MM

Sitting on 190pts left. Debating dropping the Outrider and going for patrol to add some Incursors for early board control/block first turn chargers. This opens up a lot of tactical options since I wouldn't be limited to Ravenwing.
I know my above list needs more AT, which is easy to do with 190pts still left (hunt down 2-3 more Attack Bikes, LS vengeance etc) but I need to also think about the increase in hordes in the meta. A second Talon Master might be decent instead of sammael since twin assault cannon is great for new orks and T3 blobs.

Just curious as to what people are leaning towards these days
   
Made in us
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain






A Protoss colony world

On the topic of Attack Bikes, yeah they are scarce to find. Fortunately I managed to snag an STL file for a decent-looking one (complete with a Ravenwing tail fin) so I can 3d print a few as needed. You might be able to go that route as well, either printing them yourself if you have a 3d printer or getting someone else to do it for you.

As for your list, overall I like it. I think you don't want to put the CMLs on the home objective though, as usually you want to be out of LOS for Stubborn Defiance and that means the launchers won't have anything to shoot at most of the time. On a board where you can't hide, it's not a terrible plan though. With 190 points left, one thing you could do is add some more meltas to the bike units (melta + combi on sarge) and then stick in a unit of Outriders or a 5-man regular bike squad (comes to 2k on the nose). Gives you more mobile board control options. Or you could add a second LSV and have 70 more points to throw around, maybe add another bike to each of the existing units and a LC on each sergeant. The second Talonmaster option would not be a terrible choice either.

My armies (re-counted and updated on 9/25/20, including modeled wargear options):
Dark Angels: ~16000 | Space Marines (Blood Ravens and others): ~900 | Space Wolves: ~3800
Astra Militarum: ~800 | Officio Assassinorum: ~600 | Imperial Knights: ~1300 | Sisters of Battle: ~1900
Check out my P&M Blogs: ZergSmasher's P&M Blog | Imperial Knights blog | Total models painted in 2020: 47 | Total models painted in 2021: 87 | Current main painting project: Sisters of Battle
 Mr_Rose wrote:
Who doesn’t love crazy mutant squawk-puppies? Eh? Nobody, that’s who.
 
   
Made in ca
Jinking Ravenwing Land Speeder Pilot



Canada

@Bullyboy,

Since we got back to in-store gaming I've been at 1500 points in preparation for a local tourney next week (20 players). I have found things are tougher than they were in March! I took a list that crunched things in Feb/March and it has fallen behind (or maybe I am just rusty). My all Deathwing force lost to Drukhari but did a lot of damage along the way. Board control was a major issue. A Deathwing/Greenwing force was roughly handled by new Orks yesterday. The damage reduction banner can't be on everybody and the rockets on the Deffcoptas are nasty.

I considered a list similar to yours, but at 1500 points its tough to make a viable DW/RW combo. The Strike Force missions at 1500 points make it tough on elite forces as there are several Hold 2/Hold 3/Hold More scenarios that make it tough with a low-unit count. Less of a problem at 2000 points, but it is still something to consider. I would explore your thought to have a Greenwing Patrol to support the Deathwing. My attempt with Inceptors and Tactical Squads did not work out so well. I am looking at a mix of Attack Bikes with Multi-Melta and maybe even some traditional long-range fire support options (maybe even Hellblasters) along with Infiltrators and Intercessors.

You are right that twin-assault cannons (and even normal assault cannons) are good weapons against Ork Boys now.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/08/02 03:47:06


All you have to do is fire three rounds a minute, and stand 
   
Made in us
Deathwing Terminator with Assault Cannon





I'll probably run some all Ravenwing lists for fun in the future, but I think I'm going to drop the Outrider in my combo list. Having obsec bikes isn't enough to limit the options IMHO.
I'm starting to look at other units in the codex to see what they can do for me, even little things like a 5 man assault sqd with 2 flamers for 110pts as a reserve to take on small objective scoring units, possibly a whirlwind for indirect fire onto scoring units, etc.

have a friend who is a keen Ork player, so will get to face him soon (he also has Drukhari). Just don't know anyone who plays Admech.
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





Los Angeles

Okay, now time for the counter:
What does DW fear?
What makes Ravenwing feathers fall out?
Mixed Dark Angels?

srsly. Deathwing was my first army (year 2004), but now I'm getting whooped by Mixed DW, RW and beefed up dreads. Thoughts?

"You can bring any cheesy unit you want. If you lose. Casey taught me that." -Tim S.

"I'm gonna follow Casey; he knows where the beer's at!" -Blackmoor, BAO 2013

Quitting Daemon Princes, Bob and Fred - a 40k webcomic 
   
Made in us
Smokin' Skorcha Driver





Central MN

Ok friends,
Our local club is starting up a crusade and starting at 25PL I figured this would be a great time to finally learn how to play my DA army that I purchased and have been painting.
I normally play orks and I know DA play very differently.. but where do I even start? there are way too many units to choose from in the SM codex haha.
I think I have somewhere around 2-4k points in DA so I should be able to field nearly any unit.

SRSFACE wrote: Every Ork player I know is a really, really cool person.
20,000 New and Growing 1000
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/592194.page#6769789 
   
Made in ca
Jinking Ravenwing Land Speeder Pilot



Canada

 zammerak wrote:
Ok friends,
Our local club is starting up a crusade and starting at 25PL I figured this would be a great time to finally learn how to play my DA army that I purchased and have been painting.
I normally play orks and I know DA play very differently.. but where do I even start? there are way too many units to choose from in the SM codex haha.
I think I have somewhere around 2-4k points in DA so I should be able to field nearly any unit.


I have only done one Crusade, and I was in deep cover as a Necron...The things we do to hunt the fallen. I have done escalation tourneys where you play 500, 1000, 1500 and 2000 point games where your lists in later games have to include the units from former games. So its a balance between having a workable force at 500 points and a killer force at 2000?

Unless you know absolutely which "Wing" you prefer, I might start with a Primaris Capt, two Intercessor Squads (crowd control), a Bladeguard Squad (melee) and two Attack Bikes (anti-tank/anti-monster). Lets you play with the different element of the Dark Angels with the ability to grow in any direction.

All you have to do is fire three rounds a minute, and stand 
   
Made in ca
Jinking Ravenwing Land Speeder Pilot



Canada

Took an all-Ravenwing list to an 18 player, 3 round, 1500 point tourney today. The intent was to have thematic lists led by named characters – a Great Crusade! After much deliberation but not many warm up games (two with Deathwing lists that didn’t really gel) I went with: Sammael, two Talonmasters, a Ravenwing Champion with the Reliquary of Repentance, a Ravenwing Chief Apothecary, a squadron of five Black Knights, three bare-bones Ravenwing Bike Squads, an Attack Bike Squadron with three Multi-Melta bikes and a Landspeeder Vengeance.

Game 1 Surround and Destroy vs Ultramarines. He had Tigurius, a Lieutenant, a Chief Apothecary, three Intercessor Squads, a Suppressor Squad, an Inceptor Squad, a Redemptor, an Eradicator Squad and a Callidus Assassin. I took Death on the Wind, Engage on All Fronts and a special Secondary that the TO had in effect that gave Warlords VPs for doing things - 5 for inflicting 10 wounds on infantry, 5 for inflicting 10 wounds on vehicles and monsters and being within 6” of the centre at the end of the game.
I got first turn, and absolutely hammered the centre of his force. The Eradicators were wiped and Bladeguard were down to one man. His return fire killed my Vengeance, but by the end of Turn 2 I had killed his Characters, Bladeguard, Suppressors and Redemptor. The Attack Bikes did a lot of the heavy lifting. He was tabled by Turn 4 and I had 83 points out of 90 (we don’t give the 10 for painted). As Ravenwing I will take a firefight against other Marines.

Game 2 Vital Intelligence vs Ravenguard. He had Shrike, a Smash Captain, two VV Squads with Lighting Claws, a Redemptor, Inceptors, Eradicators, two Intercessors and two Incursors. I took Death on the Wind, Engage on all Fronts and the special Secondary. I was a little casual with my deployment and was faced with a Turn 1 charge by the Smash Captain and one of the VV Squads. While his Smash Captain mauled my Black Knights, an Interrupt and Swift Strike extracted the survivors and left his vanguard exposed. Bike Squadrons messed with the flanks, contesting objectives and tying him down.

The Champion moved within 3” and the rest of my force let fly, wiping the VVs and Smash Captain. The Vengeance crippled the Redemptor. He deep struck the Eradicators and tried to kill my Attack Bikes, but Jink saved their bacon – only one died. In response the second VV squad was wiped by the Attack Bikes (helped by the invul debuff) and the Eradicators fell to a combination of assault cannon and Sammael’s sword. He was tabled by my Turn 4. I forget the exact score, but it was in the high 70s.

Game 3 Battle Lines vs Necrons.He had two bricks of twenty Warriors, a big unit of Scarabs, a Canoptek Spider, a big squad of Destroyers, an Annihilation Barge, a Chronomancer and the Illuminator dude. I took Death on the Wind, Engage on All Fronts and the mission secondary. A mid-range firefight against Necrons can be frustrating and he had two good melee units. He had first turn and seemed to be hanging back. I tried to hammer one flank. While I wiped the Scarabs and killed one Destroyer with the Vengeance his Warriors were almost unscathed. The next two turns saw a grinding battle where bikers fell to massed Guass fire while I killed his scary melee with Multi-Melta. We timed out at Turn 4 – I had something in the neighbourhood of 60 points to his 40 and another battle round would have been great.

There was a fourth “Boss Battle round” to settle things where Sammael was taken down by Celestine (we started 4 inches apart and she got first turn). Mortal Wounds made a big difference. Sisters came first, Death Guard 2nd and me third. There was a good mix of Necrons, Marines and even Tau. There was only one Drukhari and no Ad Mech.

The list performed well. I was worried about the small squads and character protection, but things held together. Mobility was the key along with a plan for CP usage. The Talonmasters are not quite the terror they were at the sunset of 8th and dawn of 9th, but their flexible firepower is still great. We have several ways out of melee, and knowing which to use and when can be critical. The Attack Bikes were the consistent stars – no surprise. They were the recipient of almost every Chapter Master buff and a Talonmaster was usually with them. The Ravenwing Champion was really useful – the invul debuff was clutch. The Ravenwing Apothecary was also worth it - bringing back Attack Bikes is always nice. The Black Knights were a little lack-lustre, but they also took a lot of my opponents’ attention. The Vengeance was swingy, but when he shone he shone. Two more Attack Bikes, though, might be a better investment?

Death on the Wind was maxed out each time, while Engage on All Fronts did well. I think that Ravenwing work well with another element, but at 1500 points it gets hard to split things and there was also the theme to think of. I was lucky, though, not to face the other two Necron lists that had C'tan since I lacked a Psyker!

All you have to do is fire three rounds a minute, and stand 
   
Made in us
Dark Angels Neophyte Undergoing Surgeries




What would you recommend mixing them with? From your report it doesn't sound like you felt like you were missing anything except a librarian, but if advancing to 2k how would you build out? I've been leaning towards mono rw but with you saying black knights were underwhelming, maybe a deathwing contingent lead by a Libby?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/08/10 00:05:52


 
   
Made in ca
Jinking Ravenwing Land Speeder Pilot



Canada

Vulshra wrote:
What would you recommend mixing them with? From your report it doesn't sound like you felt like you were missing anything except a librarian, but if advancing to 2k how would you build out? I've been leaning towards mono rw but with you saying black knights were underwhelming, maybe a deathwing contingent lead by a Libby?


I was actually trying to make that work at 1500, but I felt it was spread too thin. I think it would work well at 2000 points! A Terminator Librarian, Deathwing Knights, Deathwing Terminators and the Ravenwing Apothecary shifted from the Ravenwing Detachment would be close to fitting points-wise with my last list. The Terminator Librarian could drop in where needed, while Deathwing Knights give a hard-hitting melee force that can stick around the middle of the board and doesn't need much character supervision. The Deathwing Squad would be utility - hold an area.

I am also looking at a Terminator Librarian-led Greenwing Patrol Detachment with some Infiltrators, Intercessors and Plasma Inceptors. Doesn't help with melee, but does give some board control and another firepower hammer.

All you have to do is fire three rounds a minute, and stand 
   
Made in us
Dark Angels Neophyte Undergoing Surgeries




TangoTwoBravo wrote:
Vulshra wrote:
What would you recommend mixing them with? From your report it doesn't sound like you felt like you were missing anything except a librarian, but if advancing to 2k how would you build out? I've been leaning towards mono rw but with you saying black knights were underwhelming, maybe a deathwing contingent lead by a Libby?


I was actually trying to make that work at 1500, but I felt it was spread too thin. I think it would work well at 2000 points! A Terminator Librarian, Deathwing Knights, Deathwing Terminators and the Ravenwing Apothecary shifted from the Ravenwing Detachment would be close to fitting points-wise with my last list. The Terminator Librarian could drop in where needed, while Deathwing Knights give a hard-hitting melee force that can stick around the middle of the board and doesn't need much character supervision. The Deathwing Squad would be utility - hold an area.

I am also looking at a Terminator Librarian-led Greenwing Patrol Detachment with some Infiltrators, Intercessors and Plasma Inceptors. Doesn't help with melee, but does give some board control and another firepower hammer.


Rather than plasma inceptors, why not plasma guns and combi plasma on bikers? That way it's obsec and doesn't require extra units. Personally I am a fan of running 2 max bikes squads with 2 plasmas and a combi plasma + mm ab plus a squad of rw bk, combat squad the max bikes to a plasma squad and a chainswords squad, that way you have threat saturation on plasma

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/08/10 19:40:22


 
   
Made in ca
Jinking Ravenwing Land Speeder Pilot



Canada

Vulshra wrote:
Spoiler:
TangoTwoBravo wrote:
Vulshra wrote:
What would you recommend mixing them with? From your report it doesn't sound like you felt like you were missing anything except a librarian, but if advancing to 2k how would you build out? I've been leaning towards mono rw but with you saying black knights were underwhelming, maybe a deathwing contingent lead by a Libby?


I was actually trying to make that work at 1500, but I felt it was spread too thin. I think it would work well at 2000 points! A Terminator Librarian, Deathwing Knights, Deathwing Terminators and the Ravenwing Apothecary shifted from the Ravenwing Detachment would be close to fitting points-wise with my last list. The Terminator Librarian could drop in where needed, while Deathwing Knights give a hard-hitting melee force that can stick around the middle of the board and doesn't need much character supervision. The Deathwing Squad would be utility - hold an area.

I am also looking at a Terminator Librarian-led Greenwing Patrol Detachment with some Infiltrators, Intercessors and Plasma Inceptors. Doesn't help with melee, but does give some board control and another firepower hammer.


Rather than plasma inceptors, why not plasma guns and combi plasma on bikers? That way it's obsec and doesn't require extra units. Personally I am a fan of running 2 max bikes squads with 2 plasmas and a combi plasma + mm ab plus a squad of rw bk, combat squad the max bikes to a plasma squad and a chainswords squad, that way you have threat saturation on plasma


I find the Blast profile of the Plasma Inceptors can be devastating when the opponent has things in squads over 5 models - they can really clear out tough, well protected infantry. I had Black Knights in my pure Ravenwing army this past weekend, but at 2000 points I would consider adding a Greenwing or an Aux detachment. Still, I find I need my CPs so my Black Knights will still see the table. Black Knights were my main dudes in 8th, but now they are more general purpose/character protection.

I was running my Ravenwing Bike Squadrons with four bikes and an Attack Bike, usually with two Plasma guns. They were able to chuck out the firepower. These days, though, I have been running minimum bare-bones Squadrons that focus on staying alive to secure objectives and be in table quarters for Engage on All Fronts. The shooting is left to the Black Knights, Talonmasters and Attack Bike Squadrons and that is where I invest my points. Chainswords instead of bolt pistols, though, is a solid move. Taking a full strength Ravenwing Squadron with all the trimings does give you some good options - I just find I run out of points before I run out of Fast Attack Slots!

All you have to do is fire three rounds a minute, and stand 
   
Made in us
Dark Angels Neophyte Undergoing Surgeries




The benefit of max squads is that when you break them up you get the flexibility min squads when you want them but aren't committed to them. I find two big squads and one small is a good mix
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut




Obviously a suboptimal list, but if you wanted to bring an entirely landspeeder list. What you you bring? Obviously 3 talon masters, but do you bring as many hulls as possible, do you spread them into individual units or take them as one blob? Is a darkshroud worth it at that point?

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/08/11 22:12:14


 
   
Made in ca
Jinking Ravenwing Land Speeder Pilot



Canada

C4790M wrote:
Obviously a suboptimal list, but if you wanted to bring an entirely landspeeder list. What you you bring? Obviously 3 talon masters, but do you bring as many hulls as possible, do you spread them into individual units or take them as one blob? Is a darkshroud worth it at that point?


I've never tried it. Running an Outrider you have six Fast Attack slots, so I guess you would look at taking units of more than one Landspeeder if you were concerned about running out of slots and you really treasure your CPs. A unit of three Landspeeders with MultiMeltas would certainly take down big scary things, but so would three individual such speeders and enemy shooting would have to be more calculated. More units means that you can be in more places for Primaries and some Secondaries.

I might try it at 1000 points for laughs! It will struggle, but it will struggle with class.

I am not as sold on the Darkshroud in 9th as I was in 8th. I am now spending the points and slot on a Vengeance or something else.

All you have to do is fire three rounds a minute, and stand 
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut




I feel like you’d have to run a minimum of 2 outriders so you can have 3 talonmasters - they’re by far the best landspeeder unit and the only way you’d get the weight of dice to take out hordes (AT is covered by almost every model having a multimelta). I’m playing a 1500pt game tomorrow, I’ll adjust my ideas based on how it plays (3 talons, 2 tornadoes with AC/MM, 3 typhoons with MM, 1 each of a vengeance, hammer strike and thunder strike)
   
Made in ca
Jinking Ravenwing Land Speeder Pilot



Canada

I think you could run three Talonmasters in a single Outrider Detachment. They are Lieutenants, so you can take two in a single HQ Force Org slot. So you take one as your Warlord. You then take another Talonmaster as your second "free slot" Lieutenant according to Company Heroes. You then take a 3rd Talonmaster as your 2nd HQ slot.

Did I get that right? Edit - Obviously not!

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/08/13 02:46:37


All you have to do is fire three rounds a minute, and stand 
   
Made in us
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain






A Protoss colony world

TangoTwoBravo wrote:
I think you could run three Talonmasters in a single Outrider Detachment. They are Lieutenants, so you can take two in a single HQ Force Org slot. So you take one as your Warlord. You then take another Talonmaster as your second "free slot" Lieutenant according to Company Heroes. You then take a 3rd Talonmaster as your 2nd HQ slot.

Did I get that right?

Pretty sure you're limited to one Captain and two Lieutenants per detachment, regardless of slots. I don't have my book in front of me right now though, so I could easily be wrong.

My armies (re-counted and updated on 9/25/20, including modeled wargear options):
Dark Angels: ~16000 | Space Marines (Blood Ravens and others): ~900 | Space Wolves: ~3800
Astra Militarum: ~800 | Officio Assassinorum: ~600 | Imperial Knights: ~1300 | Sisters of Battle: ~1900
Check out my P&M Blogs: ZergSmasher's P&M Blog | Imperial Knights blog | Total models painted in 2020: 47 | Total models painted in 2021: 87 | Current main painting project: Sisters of Battle
 Mr_Rose wrote:
Who doesn’t love crazy mutant squawk-puppies? Eh? Nobody, that’s who.
 
   
Made in ca
Jinking Ravenwing Land Speeder Pilot



Canada

 ZergSmasher wrote:
TangoTwoBravo wrote:
I think you could run three Talonmasters in a single Outrider Detachment. They are Lieutenants, so you can take two in a single HQ Force Org slot. So you take one as your Warlord. You then take another Talonmaster as your second "free slot" Lieutenant according to Company Heroes. You then take a 3rd Talonmaster as your 2nd HQ slot.

Did I get that right?

Pretty sure you're limited to one Captain and two Lieutenants per detachment, regardless of slots. I don't have my book in front of me right now though, so I could easily be wrong.


You are indeed correct Sir! The Company Command rule...So two detachments it would have to be.

All you have to do is fire three rounds a minute, and stand 
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut




Tried a 1500 landspeeder only game vs necrons (60 warriors, a command barge, some skopekhs with Lord, and a tri arch stalker)

Had them down to 1 squad of warriors and a chronomancer by the bottom of turn 3 and they conceded

Was a very weird but cool style of play - basically had to play incredibly cagey, picking fights and avoiding getting bogged down in combat. If you have the models, would recommend trying it at least once
   
Made in us
Dark Angels Neophyte Undergoing Surgeries




C4790M wrote:
Tried a 1500 landspeeder only game vs necrons (60 warriors, a command barge, some skopekhs with Lord, and a tri arch stalker)

Had them down to 1 squad of warriors and a chronomancer by the bottom of turn 3 and they conceded

Was a very weird but cool style of play - basically had to play incredibly cagey, picking fights and avoiding getting bogged down in combat. If you have the models, would recommend trying it at least once


To be fair, I think every ravenwing force should be cagey. We're faster than nearly everyone, and we should use it
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





Beaverton OR


So...

Ravenwing: Black Knights or Outriders? Which works better? Use both in a force? Thoughts?
   
Made in ca
Jinking Ravenwing Land Speeder Pilot



Canada

leerm02 wrote:

So...

Ravenwing: Black Knights or Outriders? Which works better? Use both in a force? Thoughts?


What are you trying to achieve with them? The Outriders are good at clearing out chaff with their Twin Bolt Guns and large number of D1 attacks on the charge. The Black Knights hit harder against vehicles/power armour targets with their plasma talons and their D2 Corvus hammers can make a difference against armoured targets in melee. In a Ravenwing Outrider Detachment the Outriders are a Fast Attack Slot and have Obsec. The Black Knights are an Elite slot but let you take Ravenwing Apothecary, Ancient and Champion as free slots, but most people just take the Apothecary so its a bit of a wash.

I have been consistently taking Black Knights for their Plasma Talons while my Outriders having been sitting on the shelf. I am not giving up on them.

Another debate is between Outriders and Ravenwing Bike Squadrons. I really like standard Bike Squadons these days - more flexible.


All you have to do is fire three rounds a minute, and stand 
   
Made in us
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain






A Protoss colony world

leerm02 wrote:

So...

Ravenwing: Black Knights or Outriders? Which works better? Use both in a force? Thoughts?

Apples and oranges, they don't really have the same role in a list. As T2B said above, Black Knights are much better vs. harder targets, but Outriders gain ObSec in a Ravenwing Outrider detachment. So it's really more of a question of what your list needs.

As for Outriders vs. regular bikes, I definitely lean towards regular bikes myself, especially now that Outriders are 50 ppm and there are more weapons that are really optimized to kill 4-wound models (Dark Lances, Cognis Lascannons, Entropy Cannons, etc.). Outriders are definitely not total garbage though and still hit harder than normal bikes in melee (3 Outriders = 19 attacks on the charge, 5 normal bikes with chainswords = 16 attacks on the charge, both cost 150 points).

My armies (re-counted and updated on 9/25/20, including modeled wargear options):
Dark Angels: ~16000 | Space Marines (Blood Ravens and others): ~900 | Space Wolves: ~3800
Astra Militarum: ~800 | Officio Assassinorum: ~600 | Imperial Knights: ~1300 | Sisters of Battle: ~1900
Check out my P&M Blogs: ZergSmasher's P&M Blog | Imperial Knights blog | Total models painted in 2020: 47 | Total models painted in 2021: 87 | Current main painting project: Sisters of Battle
 Mr_Rose wrote:
Who doesn’t love crazy mutant squawk-puppies? Eh? Nobody, that’s who.
 
   
Made in us
Dark Angels Neophyte Undergoing Surgeries




What do you all think of the Damocles Command Rhino as the HQ for a patrol supplementing a ravenwing or deathwing specialist detachment? the patrol would principally be to fill in holes in the primary detachment (i.e., mobility for deathwing, backfield support for ravenwing), and I was thinking the CP regen may be useful, along with the additional aura projection
   
Made in us
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain






A Protoss colony world

Vulshra wrote:
What do you all think of the Damocles Command Rhino as the HQ for a patrol supplementing a ravenwing or deathwing specialist detachment? the patrol would principally be to fill in holes in the primary detachment (i.e., mobility for deathwing, backfield support for ravenwing), and I was thinking the CP regen may be useful, along with the additional aura projection

I was under the impression that it had been moved to Legends, but I could very easily be mistaken about that.

My armies (re-counted and updated on 9/25/20, including modeled wargear options):
Dark Angels: ~16000 | Space Marines (Blood Ravens and others): ~900 | Space Wolves: ~3800
Astra Militarum: ~800 | Officio Assassinorum: ~600 | Imperial Knights: ~1300 | Sisters of Battle: ~1900
Check out my P&M Blogs: ZergSmasher's P&M Blog | Imperial Knights blog | Total models painted in 2020: 47 | Total models painted in 2021: 87 | Current main painting project: Sisters of Battle
 Mr_Rose wrote:
Who doesn’t love crazy mutant squawk-puppies? Eh? Nobody, that’s who.
 
   
Made in us
Deathwing Terminator with Assault Cannon





What are people's thoughts on Bike Captains? I'm trying to cut back on my characters so that I can put more meat in the lists, therefore a single Talonmaster, chief RW apothecary and a Capt on bike instead of Sammael. Also dropped my terminator ancient. So, keep the bike captain cheap with calibanite knight and teeth of terra?
   
Made in us
Grim Dark Angels Interrogator-Chaplain






A Protoss colony world

 bullyboy wrote:
What are people's thoughts on Bike Captains? I'm trying to cut back on my characters so that I can put more meat in the lists, therefore a single Talonmaster, chief RW apothecary and a Capt on bike instead of Sammael. Also dropped my terminator ancient. So, keep the bike captain cheap with calibanite knight and teeth of terra?

I've seen RW lists with a barebones Bike Captain with the Reliquary of the Repentant. Definitely saves points over taking Sammael, although in most cases Sammael is very good to have.

Also, I actually wanted to share a trick I saw recently when I faced a Dark Angels list. He had taken a Master-crafted weapon on his Deathwing Knight Master, making that flail damage 3. This could be really good with the new Orks starting to be seen, as the damage spillover makes it brutal vs. hordes. D3 is also just plain nice to have in general.

My armies (re-counted and updated on 9/25/20, including modeled wargear options):
Dark Angels: ~16000 | Space Marines (Blood Ravens and others): ~900 | Space Wolves: ~3800
Astra Militarum: ~800 | Officio Assassinorum: ~600 | Imperial Knights: ~1300 | Sisters of Battle: ~1900
Check out my P&M Blogs: ZergSmasher's P&M Blog | Imperial Knights blog | Total models painted in 2020: 47 | Total models painted in 2021: 87 | Current main painting project: Sisters of Battle
 Mr_Rose wrote:
Who doesn’t love crazy mutant squawk-puppies? Eh? Nobody, that’s who.
 
   
Made in ca
Jinking Ravenwing Land Speeder Pilot



Canada

 bullyboy wrote:
What are people's thoughts on Bike Captains? I'm trying to cut back on my characters so that I can put more meat in the lists, therefore a single Talonmaster, chief RW apothecary and a Capt on bike instead of Sammael. Also dropped my terminator ancient. So, keep the bike captain cheap with calibanite knight and teeth of terra?


Our next events is at 1000 points, and I have been looking at a Captain on a Bike just like yours! I do think I will miss Sammael’s Chapter Master. Being able to send a Squadron off with rerolls is nice. Still saves 50 odd points, though, so I will see how he does.

All you have to do is fire three rounds a minute, and stand 
   
 
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